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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I don't think having everyone is the best idea.

Boney said:
There isn't an invisible threshold of maximum wrangling capacity. Less people is easier, more people is harder, some people will require more wrangling than others, some tasks will be more difficult to wrangle people on, some combinations of people and tasks could prove especially troublesome.
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Realistically I expect we'd get not much progress done with the whole group involved. Might even be personality clashes. It would probably end up we'd need to shave it down to move forward next turn to speed things up.

The current group I think has the best odds and if it doesn't work out then next turn we can make a more targeted group using what we learn this time. So basically even the result of a failure doesn't seem too likely to be that much worse than just having everyone added. While avoiding the potential for inter group conflict.
 
Honestly with the explanation given I think the only one where it might make sense to change the vote is Tochter. It does seem like a massive oversight not having the ritual specialist in the foundation action.
 
Seriously, the idea that the Hedgewise paradigm is covered by the Hag Witch because she uses spirits is- well it's wrong on several levels, and missing the whole point of this project, which is to bring in diverse perspectives and knowledge bases to cover gaps left by others.

EDIT: This is also an action where I specifically wouldn't be surprised by a Hedgewise saying they can just store the magic in the Hedge while it waits.
 
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I really don't support throwing everyone on the Foundations action.
Boney said:
In general the fastest progress will be made by involving only those with the most applicable knowledge, but also keep in mind how each individual might feel about being included or excluded in a particular investigation.
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There's a reason we don't just put everyone on the big stuff: we've never taken a Waystones action with everyone besides the Lay the Foundation one, and there's no need to start now. And I really don't think this is a big deal; the only people who spoke up during the initial investigation of the Foundation were Cadaeth, Hatalath, and Sarvoi. So I agree with LawOfRobotics's choices.

I might be willing to approval vote a variant bringing in Tochter, but there's definitely no need for Aksel; I'd rather him just focus on the Kislev tributary rollout, since his particular tributary type is something Kislev can make use of if they're willing to allow the Hedgewise on their border to help out. I'm very interested in the Hedgewise having good relationships with their neighbors to the north. And "everyone" is right out.
 
picklepikkl said:
I really don't support throwing everyone on the Foundations action.

There's a reason we don't just put everyone on the big stuff: we've never taken a Waystones action with everyone besides the Lay the Foundation one, and there's no need to start now. And I really don't think this is a big deal; the only people who spoke up during the initial investigation of the Foundation were Cadaeth, Hatalath, and Sarvoi. So I agree with LawOfRobotics's choices.

I might be willing to approval vote a variant bringing in Tochter, but there's definitely no need for Aksel; I'd rather him just focus on the Kislev tributary rollout, since his particular tributary type is something Kislev can make use of if they're willing to allow the Hedgewise on their border to help out. I'm very interested in the Hedgewise having good relationships with their neighbors to the north. And "everyone" is right out.
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Ok but this is the big stuff. It's the most important and complex action of the project to date, and we still can't even guess how it's doing what it's doing. So for the first action of working that out everyone should be able to give their expertise. Yes it's gonna be a bit of a wrangle but I seriously doubt we will be able to find a working idea right from the get go.
 
Let's look at what each waystone component actually does:

The rune attracts wayward magic towards the waystone.

The capstone absorbs the wayward magic, and dumps it into the foundation.

The foundation stores it, and then once enough is collected to create a stable orbit, releases it into the leyline. It may also create Dhar as part of this process.

The leyline then moves the magic towards the vortex, and sends commands back up the line to the waystones.

I don't think the Druids or the Hedgewise will have any particular insight into the process of storing and releasing magic—at least, no insights the colleges don't already have, I suspect. I can't see Cadeath or Zlata adding anything the others couldn't either.

Thorek deals with storing and releasing magic on a daily basis, so he should absolutely be on the team. Hatalath probably knows something about that as well, so he's a solid choice there. Sarvoi is the Dhar expert and has a theoretical degree in physics, so he'll be able to contribute on how to create the stable orbit to carry the magic. Elrisse and Egrimm can look at methods for containing and directing the Dhar without poisoning the environment (Tochter could also be useful here), or even a way to bypass needing it, because light magic is good at that sort of stuff. And Niedzwenka would probably just tell us to "get a spirit to do it", which is a solid enough plan B that she gets a spot on the team.
 
Too many cooks spoiling the broth is a concern that I don't wan to deal with. Current plan is fine.
 
picklepikkl said:
I might be willing to approval vote a variant bringing in Tochter, but there's definitely no need for Aksel; I'd rather him just focus on the Kislev tributary rollout, since his particular tributary type is something Kislev can make use of if they're willing to allow the Hedgewise on their border to help out. I'm very interested in the Hedgewise having good relationships with their neighbors to the north.
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Expanding a bit on this point, the Ostland Hedgewise (and the Ostermark Hedgewise, but they're irrelevant here) have pretty strong ties with the Hags, with the two groups crossing the border and sheltering each other in times of persecutions. The Hags aren't exactly a strong political group in Kislev, but this tributary business is obviously going to make them more important due to the Spirit tributaries, which could end up being quite useful to Halétha's people.
Also we're, like, pretty sure that Aksel is up to something with Zlata, so that's another reason to want him to have more time to spend on Kislev.

With all that said, Aksel did turn out to be surprisingly useful when we worked on the leylines, so I dunno. My own plans didn't have him on the Foundation and I agree that there's already a ton of people on the thing, but I did briefly consider dropping Zlata for him, before deciding that poor Zlata should have one last chance to make herself useful.
 
@Nerdasaurus Rex's analysis above basically matches mine from when I was making the plan. I can see the appeal of adding Tochter, but I was really trying to keep the number of participants down. Both due to my personal experience seeing how too many people working on something can just slow it down (see also: The Mythical Man Month), and out of wanting to keep Boney's life simpler, and the narrative more focused.

Boney has said keeping it focused will help:
Boney said:
In general the fastest progress will be made by involving only those with the most applicable knowledge, but also keep in mind how each individual might feel about being included or excluded in a particular investigation.
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and that writing Waystone actions is not simple:
Boney said:
the Waystone stuff requires a lot of behind-the-scenes metaphysical worldbuilding to keep it all coherent.
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edit: A few more thoughts
I added Zlata because Ice Witches may be using Earthbound magic, so if that is at all relevant then she will notice, and if we add the Hag Witch but not the Ice Witch, then while Zlata might not mind it could be seen as us preferring one side in the overall rivalry.

If a Waystone Project member has relevant knowledge, and we don't include them in an action and we end up needing it to finish the action, then instead of just repeating the action, I expect Boney will give us a new, focused follow up action to use their knowledge to complete that action. It just makes sense that if someone has relevant knowledge, it will come up in an on screen conversation with them at some point so we can act on it. Boney is not our opponent and has no motivation to hide things that we should be able to learn.
 
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mathymancer said:
poor Zlata should have one last chance to make herself useful.
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I've been thinking about this, because Zlata is basically Journeywoman level, and isn't experienced enough to know the difference between secrets and Secrets. Which is unfortunately making her a poor fit for the magic stuff.

But she's still a representative of Kislev and a point of contact for the Ice Court, which is an important diplomatic role and something she's qualified for. Maybe we can do something with that?
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I've been thinking about this, because Zlata is basically Journeywoman level, and isn't experienced enough to know the difference between secrets and Secrets. Which is unfortunately making her a poor fit for the magic stuff.

But she's still a representative of Kislev and a point of contact for the Ice Court, which is an important diplomatic role and something she's qualified for. Maybe we can do something with that?
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Well I hope she shines more now that we are bringing the tributaries to Kislev. That's her home turf and she's the one who knows the stuff so the ice witches back home will have to listen to her at least partially.

When we map Kislev that will also help.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I've been thinking about this, because Zlata is basically Journeywoman level, and isn't experienced enough to know the difference between secrets and Secrets. Which is unfortunately making her a poor fit for the magic stuff.

But she's still a representative of Kislev and a point of contact for the Ice Court, which is an important diplomatic role and something she's qualified for. Maybe we can do something with that?
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Well, we're going to give Kislev some tributaries, which will hopefully make the Ice Court give Zlata some clearance to actually share stuff with us. She clearly knows some stuff about leylines from her knowledge of the Kislev network but isn't allowed to share. Beyond that the only things we can confidently expect her to be useful with are studying the Kislev network and the Scythian tributaries. The first of those I don't know when we'll do and the second we might never do at all, since we already have pretty good tributaries and if we want to look into more the lornalim seem a better candidate.
 
dinomannitro6 said:
unfortunately I think the Father will have to wait a few more turns, theres just not enough time to do what the thread wants to do and go to Bretonnia (let alone also go to the nexuses).
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I have found a solution,

We don't do Foundations until next turn!
Now hear me out, since I want to put everyone on that action anyways, it means we wont have to worry about leaving people not doing anything for too long, and since we will be doing the orbflex next turn, not having to worry about getting everyone on the project then will be useful then too. And its not like we're doing nothing for the project in this plan.

[X] Plan Daughters of Lakes and Shadows with AV
-[X] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Betonnian Damsels)
-[X] Waystone: Nexuses(Forest of Shadows) (Askel)
-[X] Attempt to create a liminal realm
-[X] MAX: Study: Books and rubbings from an Asur explorer of Lustria and the Southlands
-[X] JOHANN: Hunt an apparition (Rider in Red)
-[X] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm: Seviroscope
-[X] EIC: Negotiate and plan a magical route through the Schadensumpf to allow for easier trade with the Eonir without compromising their defences
-[X] KAU: Begin copying the full corpus of a Partner Library. (Grand University of Nuln)
-[X] Eike Actions: Books and rubbings, Windfall Observations, Windherding, Fog Bridge
-[X] Eike Study: Intrigue (try to steal the hat)
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Windfall Observations, with Egrimm as Primary Author
-[X] The Father

[X] Plan Daughters of Lakes and Shadows
[X] Plan Roadmap to Success
[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes
[X] Plan Path to Ascension
[X] Plan Redshirt v3.14159265 w/Riders and Busy Eike & Seviriscope, no speculum
[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes with Seviroscope
[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes with Seviroscope, sparing Eike somewhat
 
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T_of_A said:
What's the highest voter count this quest has had ? And was it one of the romance votes ?
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663 votes, for Choosing a Future post-Dum. And the runner up was 630 votes, for Truth vs Faith. I don't remember third place offhand, I'd have to go look.

This quest is the single most engaged-in work on SV of any kind and it's not particularly close.
 
Tasoli said:
Don' reminde me. Worst part of that vote was how close it was.
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As someone who voted for Truth gotta say I shoulda had more faith (badumtish) on whatever Boney writing being cool as hell. I fucking love Askel and the Hedgewise. Imagine I posted the meme of Rosa and the Cat, except thread's "known" Askel for longer now.

I would be down for a full father turn (not know, sorry want me apparitions) including having EIC look into expanded into Kislev hoping the Kalita tie helps!
 
mathymancer said:
She clearly knows some stuff about leylines from her knowledge of the Kislev network but isn't allowed to share. Beyond that the only things we can confidently expect her to be useful with are studying the Kislev network and the Scythian tributaries.
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She's also useful for rolling out the river spirit tributaries to other areas, having the necessary knowledge of Scythian and being more diplomatic than Grandma River-Wrestler. I don't know how many of those actions we need to take before they become self-sustaining with provinces asking to learn, but it's probably more than the one we've done.
 
A_Somebody said:
I would be down for a full father turn (not know, sorry want me apparitions) including having EIC look into expanded into Kislev hoping the Kalita tie helps!
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Well my Father plans do actually do apparitions, so you could add an approval vote for them, (well unless you want to have Gambler on it, or Whispering Darkness instead)
 
Wow, "my" plan is winning? (All honors go to LawsOfRobotics for the plan I tweaked slightly)

Anyway, while I will not be changing who is involved with the Foundation investigation, I am not opposed to leaving Eike out of the Fog Path thing. She is going to be pretty busy.

So I turn to the thread at large for its crowd-born wisdom: should I do this?
 
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