Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] Plan Roadmap to Success
[X] Plan Roadmap to Success + Ranald Liminal

I prefer having the coin on limial realm creation but until that plan catches up I am voting for both.
 
Mathilde has a trait for being good at Enchanting, there's no guarantee Eike will get one too. If anything, she might have an easier time of getting it later if we trained her on it alongside Egrimm, who also is talented at Enchanting.

Overall the best person to train Eike is Mathilde - not only is Mathilde a Grey Wizard but she's also very talented in all fields (going a bit meta Mathilde averages 24 points per stat excluding magic - many named characters don't have a single 24 point stat).
 
... but, wait... what?

Angel: The job is to fix the waystones, we need to know where they are to do that, and whats wrong with them or what have you.

it's literally impossible to complete the waystone project without doing the mapping actions.
The mapping actions are pretty important, and will likely turn up other interesting things along the way. (I'm particularly interested in mapping Tilea, to see if Skavenblight is making use of the Network.) It also gives us an important look at the geopolitical concerns that we'll have to navigate.

Having said that, I can hypothetically understand not being interested in reading a mapping in particular, even if I disagree vehemently. But it's not like we're doing them incredibly often - in the entire project, we've done exactly one mapping action. I think doing one every few turns is reasonable.

We have a better spell for crowd control, the acid fog.
To be fair, we have a better spell idea in the acid fog. I'm not disagreeing that it'd be better, just that we haven't made it yet.

But overall, I think it's reasonable to say that the Ulgu spellbook has lots of ways to make good assassins out of their spellcasters, and lots of ways to mess up the coordination of a group of foes. One thing it doesn't have is the ability to meaningfully improve melee combat. The Rider in Red covers an area the Grey College's spellbook is lacking in, and area we've specifically seen Mathilde struggle in, in a way that I don't believe the Whispering Darkness does.

The whispering fog would probably be more selective though.
Burning Shadows demonstrates that Ulgu can differentiate between friend and foe, so maybe not.
 
Approval voting for plan running shoes because even though it has a red rider, it's still a better plan than roadmap.

[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes
[X] Plan Redshirt v4.53236
[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes with Seviroscope
 
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[X] Plan Roadmap to Success
[X] Plan Roadmap to Success + Ranald Liminal
[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes
[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes with Seviroscope

Approval voting Runnig shoes because Red Rider rocks.
The idea is that by tying it to an apparition, we can get Acid Fog+.

Bigger area of effect, more stable and harder to disperse, selectively targeted, selectively opaque, and so on.
There is also the chance that by tying apparation to such spell we might loose our rank down bonus from our staff since apparation is not actually a fog.
 
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The idea is that by tying it to an apparition, we can get Acid Fog+.

Bigger area of effect, more stable and harder to disperse, selectively targeted, selectively opaque, and so on.
... but we can get Acid Fog and Rider, with is overall just smarter than Whisper on its own. (because making Acid Fog would be redundant)

like, its just not unique in what it does as a concept for Shadow magic enough to apply the apparition touch. we can get the effect in other ways, the rider (and handmaiden to be fair) effect is far far harder to do without the apparition in comparison.
 
One thing that's been sitting on me for a bit: why does the Whispering Darkness go for Chaos magic, necromancy, and hedgecraft? Plus the note that it also targets spells that deal with intelligence and psychology.

Does the whispering darkness hunger for magic that plays heavily into conceptual effects, Maybe? Or is there another way to draw a common thread?

...

Regardless, between the Red Rider and the I feel like it's a choice between:

The whispering darkness being able drop an apparition ready made into Mathilde's fog and information warfare paradigm, with all the power and spellcraft focus she can put there...
or
The Red Rider that, one way or another, wraps an apparition in Mathilde's own legend. Whether as The Dämmerlichtreiter, the once avatar of Mork turned Waaaghbane, or the patron of spiders.
(The legend of the Dämmerlichtreiter being particularly choice, for the thematic of taking a knight of bloodshed and destruction and wrapping it in a legend of a protector and dutiful servant. And, honestly, part of me wonders if the Knights of Judgmeent are red riders)

So it seems like a choice of incomparables: a question of ready-made synergy vs strong thematic-resonance.
 
And it would take at least another ap, if not several, to make it do that.

I mean, maybe? But trying to get the Red Riders to fit a "fog bank" effect so they can benefit from the Staff of Mistery, as has been floated around before, also seems like it might take a fair bit of extra work.

In that sense, it seems plausible that the Whispering Fog may actually require less work overall than the Riders. (Or we could not put in the effort and not get the Staff of Mistery bonus, but I can't imagine the thread overall being happy with that, since it means we'll end up using the Riders more rarely.)
 
Shock and Awe
Now, I don't know anything about the current plans; I haven't really looked over them yet. But I will advocate for any plan that sets us up to do AV book, Morbs, Waystone rollouts, and Elfcation all on the same turn. Why? Because it'll be funny as hell.

Shock and Awe

It was a cold and dreary Altdorf morning as eight colorful, robed figures stood before the gates of the Imperial Palace. Algard, Magister Patriarch of the Grey Order, frowned as he looked over his peers of the other Colleges. There was Manning, Elspeth, even Paranoth was there, completely on time.

It was relatively rare for them to all be called like this to the palace, especially without telling them precisely why. Algard moved over to Dragomas, Supreme Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic and head of the Amber Order.

"Did you ever figure out what this was about?" Algard questioned his old friend.

"No," Dragomas sighed. "Luitpold is being surprisingly tight-lipped about it. No clue why, but he's assured me there's nothing wrong."

"Do you believe him?"

"As much as I can. But gathering each leader of each Order of Magic into the seat of his power for undisclosed reasons? I don't think he's planning on throwing all of us at some army on a suicide mission—and I certainly hope he won't pull a Dieter—but better to be over-ready than under."

The concern on his face was matched by every Wizard there—barring Maria, who simply wore a serene, knowing smile. Algard nodded as the gates to the palace opened and a servant led them in. The entire palace shone with wealth, but privately, Algard always considered it a bit gaudy.

The servant led them through the many halls and corridors, before stopping at a set of doors flanked by two Greatswords and turning to the gathered Wizards.

"You'll find His Majesty right inside," they said as they gestured to the door.

Nodding, Dragons led the heads of all eight Colleges of Magic into the palace's Mappa Mundi room, currently occupied by only two people—and the group of Greatswords one of them was guarded by at all times. There in the middle of the room stood Emperor Luitpold von Holswig-Schliestein I, chatting pleasantly with Dame Lady Magister Mathilde Weber of the Grey Order.

Suddenly, every nerve in Algard's body was alight twice over with suspicion and concern.

Seeing them enter, the Emperor broke off from his conversation to greet them.

"Glad to see you're all here—on time, too," he said with a look towards Paranoth. The Jade Patriarch grumbled, but he at least had the decency to look a bit bashful. The Emperor continued. "I have brought you all here today because esoteric and arcane matters of great importance have been brought to my attention, and I have been convinced that a direct meeting is the simplest, fastest, and altogether most reliable means of bringing it to your attention. With that said, I cede the floor to Lady Magister Weber."

He gestured to the woman beside him, then stood off to the side of the room with his Greatsword bodyguards. Eight pairs of eyes turned to look at the Grey Wizard, and the confident smile on her face quickly turned into a smug smirk.

"I have the best kind of good news for you all today," Mathilde began, her eyes dancing with mischief. Algard sighed internally, rolling his own eyes in exasperation. Really, it was fine when it was just him, but with all the other Magisters Matriarch and Patriarch and the Emperor himself in a meeting? "The Empire is plagued by many threats and concerns, be they logistical, political, military, or existential in nature. Today, I am happy to inform you that I have taken great and successful strides to solve two pressing concerns of the Colleges and the Empire as a whole."

So saying, Mathilde gestured with a sweep of the arm, and a MAP projection of numerous glowing points appeared over the map of the Empire on the floor.

"I am sure you are all aware of Waystones and their purpose, to drain dangerous ambient energies out to Ulthuan and the Great Vortex, and I am likewise sure that you all know about how the Old World has done nothing but lose Waystones since the War of the Ancients. Not a single new Waystone in millennia, and we consider ourselves lucky if the High Elves see fit to replace an old one."

She waved her hand again, and multiple points of light went out. The gathered Wizards looked on, all with knowing looks on their faces. Algard glared at the mysterious, knowing smile Maria still hadn't dropped.

"We all know—or at least can guess—the effects this has had in certain Imperial territories. Most fortunately, I and a group of experts of numerous magical paradigms have been working for the last few years on studying and reverse engineering the numerous Elven Waystones of the Old World, and we have had an astonishing amount of success. While we've not managed to perfectly recreate them, we have managed to replicate many of the individual effects. We have multiple effective substitutes for the tributaries, a means of transporting the magical energies via rivers—and before you ask, under the rivers, not through—and we have most recently managed to create an actual working Waystone of our own design."

Beacons began to appear along the border of Sylvania, tentatively creeping deeper into the reclaimed territory.

"We have already started rolling out both tributaries and Waystone prototypes into Eastern Stirland, which should serve as an effective test to study the efficacy of our prototypes in the years to come, and we are currently in negotiations with Kislev to do the same there. One of the Empire's oldest and most painful wounds and one of its closest allies, soon to be freed of much of the dark magic that has plagued them. One of the great existential threats of the Empire well in hand, if not yet entirely resolved."

With that, the lights hovering above the floor dissipated, and Lady Magister Weber took an elegant bow before her politely applauding audience. As Mathilde rose, it was Maria who spoke up.

"While that is all quite impressive, it hardly necessitates gathering us all here at once. Is there something else you called this meeting for?" the Celestial Matriarch prompted. It earned her twin glares from the Greys in the room, but Mathilde recovered quickly.

"...make surprises no fun…Yes, there was another thing, something I think you will all be much more actively interested in," Mathilde turned, calling out to the doors at the other end of the room. "Apprentice! You can come in now!"

The doors opened, and in came Apprentice Eike Hochschild, wheeling in a cart laden with eight heavy, Runed chests clearly of Dwarven make, each bearing a symbol of one of the Orders of Magic. Mathilde turned back to her audience, clapping her hands together to regain their attention.

"Ever since the inception of the Colleges, we Wizards have been eagerly trying to recreate or match the sorcerous mastery that Teclis first demonstrated nearly two centuries ago. We've had… limited success in that regard, for all we have made impressive advancements of our own, make no mistake. We are, quite thankfully, not the Elves, capable of the numerous and grand feats of High Magic. And one of the things we've been unable to replicate are Teclis' famous Orbs of Sorcery, the arcane relics of immense magical power. Until now."

With a sly grin and a twinkle in her eyes, Dame Lady Magister Mathilde Weber began to open each of the chests upon the cart. In each one sat an immense sphere of crystalized magical energy, an Orb of Sorcery, each of a different Wind. Grey, purple, red, on and on she went until all of the chests had been opened, a glittering, multi-colored display of arcane potential set within cushioned Runic boxes.

The shocked silence of the gathered Wizards broke swiftly, each asking questions and clamoring to be heard. But Mathilde merely waved her hands, gesturing for them to be silent.

"No talking until the lecture is over, please and thank you!" Mathilde called out, grinning like a madwoman. Algard supposed she would have to be, to create genuine Orbs of Sorcery, reveal them to the gathered heads of the Colleges of Magic, and then shush them like schoolchildren! She reached her hand out to her apprentice, who pulled a thick, heavy-looking book from a side bag—which looked like it could only fit that one book—to give her. "I call them Mathilde's Orbs of Sorcery, or just Morbs if you don't have time, and they have been just one of the products of my life's work and magnum opus."

She showed off the book for all to see, the gilded title glittering and shining in a way that had to be magically enhanced. Aethyric Vitea, it read. She placed it atop one of the chests, laying her hand upon it.

"Within this book, you will find things that will completely change and challenge what you thought you knew about magic and the Winds. The secrets of liminal spaces and their creation and, yes, how to make more Orbs of Sorcery can all be found inside. Now, if you have any questions…" Mathilde smiled around the room. Algard was starting to regret keeping Smug 101 in the Diplomacy curriculum—he'd checked, and it was the only Diplomacy class Junior Apprentice Mathilde Weber had taken and attended. "...you can direct them to my apprentice. I'll be leaving for Nagarythe for a few months to fight Druchii, so I'll be out of touch for a while. Do try not to blow yourselves up!"

And with that, the Illusion of Dame Lady Magister Mathilde Weber faded away, her slowly-quieting laughter the only proof she was ever there at all, leaving her apprentice, now looking more and more horrified, to a room of ravenously curious Magisters Matriarch and Patriarch, including the Supreme Patriarch himself.

Algard was the sole Wizard to not look to poor Apprentice Eike, instead opting to put his face in his hands. Then he had a thought, one horrific and terrible.

'I bring the best kind of good news,' Magister Mathilde had said as she entered his office so long ago. He'd found it amusing then, charming.

'I'd say Malekith's death or a full-blown Skaven civil war' had been his response.

Later, she had shown up again, somehow more smug than that last time she had come in.

'I bring the best kind of good news,' she'd said again. 'I speak, of course, of a full-blown Skaven civil war.'

And just now, as she laughed in the faces of the gathered heads of the Colleges of Magic.

'I'll be leaving for Nagarythe for a few months to fight Druchii.'


Algard looked up frantically, turning quickly to the Emperor of Sigmar's Holy Empire.

"Stop her! Whatever you do, you have to stop her!"

But it was already far, far too late.


AN: I did the beginning last, so I'm not sure I like the pacing of it, but I'm pretty happy with the rest of it. Anyway, vote for any plan that achieves peak C O M E D Y
 
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Er... maybe. Apparitions are not what I would call clever, that is why we cannot use them as we initially intended as AI for spells (we wanted to do the magical sensors project at K8P)
Apparitions are in fact fact clever enough for distinguishing between friends and foes and affecting one but not the other:

Also how much control over IFF does Gehenna's Golden Hounds provide? Is it just "attack that target"?
So they are in fact smart enough to know to attack some dudes but not the others.

It is possible to cover them with an existing spell and just have them do their thing by taking advantage of their behavioral habits.

The whole point of Apparitions is to use what they want to do to your advantage. Bleak Swarms want to crawl all over people, cover them in a crow shape and have them try to land on someone with razor-sharp talons. Whispering Darkness wants to envelop someone, so you cover it in thorns and let it do so. Dark Hounds are easiest of all, they want to maul people so you point them at who to maul. You find a way to make their behavioural habits suit your purpose.
Now that you mention it, an Apparition that likes to physically get into all of the faceholes of the people in a specific area doesn't seem all that difficult to weaponize.
None of the other suspected apparition spells are using them to deliver a payload of an actual separate spell, they're just giving them physical shape that makes them more dangerous. That doesn't mean it's impossible, but it does mean that you'd be trying to invent something entirely new instead of just adapting what you already have extensive notes on how to achieve. Sticking with copying what the other spells do means you could easily adapt Black Essence to deliver a longer-lasting Pall of Darkness effect that follows someone around, or tweak it into being an asphyxiant that follows someone around.
So for instance, using the Whispering Darkness to deliver a super-boosted Battle-Magic level Bewilder would be entirely within theme and appropriate behaviors, because the Whispering Darkness already drives people insane after hugging them.

The Black Essence already gets up into the faceholes of people so using it to deliver a Pall of Darkness to a large group of people rather than a large area might doable.

And the Rider in Red already wants to kill people, so we presumably 'just' materialize it fully and let it be the fearsome combatant it normally is. We could also figure out our theoretical Shadow Sword spell and let it attack people with it, giving us a second strong combatant that can strike through people's armors.
 
The thing about having so much I like in basically every plan this turn, is that it makes it very hard to choose.

[X] Plan Roadmap to Success
[X] Plan Bring Running Shoes with Seviroscope
[X] Plan Redshirt v4.53236
 
I feel all the multiple plans which multiple apparitions and Windherding enchantments are only hurting the possibility of they succeeding.

Right now Roadmap leads with 29 votes out of 69, this leaves around ~40 people who aren't voting for roadmap and are voting for one of the many many Windherding/Apparition plans.

I hope people vote tactically and compromise once some has passed cause if not I feel roadmap will just end up winning.
 
What If: Mammoth Dreams
I've been rereading the Karag Dum expedition and I had the idea for how things might have gone just a little differently.

What If: Mammoth Dreams

Tally
[*] Asarnil the Dragonlord
[*] Ice Crone Ljiljana
[*] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann
[*] Attempt to steal the mammoth from the Baersonlings
- With Esbern and Seija



As he was in the Karag anyway today for a meeting with Francesco Caravello, King Belegar comes to you for the post-Expedition debrief, and you set your sitting room up with the appropriate maps and with a few other reference materials that would cover tangents the discussion might head in. With a nod from him the Hammerers accept your offer of a fresh keg for them to split out on the balcony, so you and the King can talk in private of some rather sensitive topics. From the notes you had sent over to him yesterday and the circulation of gossip between the Dwarven Holds, he knows the broad strokes of what's happened, it's only the details that he needs to be brought up to date on.

"First off," Belegar says, before you can speak. "That's a really cool mammoth."



With all the practical matters of the expedition wrapped up, you now turn your efforts to what you can extract from it academically. With the experience still fresh in your mind you find the papers flowing easier than ever before. One after the other flows from your pen: Karak Vlag, Karag Dum, and the western Chaos Wastes. You're sure they will be well-received, especially since you worked in a few references to the best part of the expedition: your new mammoth.

[The Return of Karak Vlag, 2486. Subject: Unique, +3. Insight: Revolutionary, +2. Delivery: Thrilling, +2. Popular, +1. Classified, -2. Really Cool Mammoth, +5. Total: 11.]

[Karag Dum: the Third Schism of the Karaz Ankor, including Observations on the Shadowgave, 2487. Subject: Unique, +3. Insight: Shattering, +3. Delivery: Competent, +0. Exotic, +1. Unpopular, -1. Shared Credit, -1. Really Cool Mammoth, +5. Total: 10.]

[Observations on the Borderlands of Chaos, 2487. Subject: Rare, +1. Insight: Confirming, +1. Delivery: Thrilling +2. Exotic, +1. Varied, +1. Shared Credit, -1. Really Cool Mammoth, +5. Total: +10.]



You have once more made your to Algard's office with good news. He listens, stunned, as you reveal your new Orbs of Sorcery.

"Wow," he finally says. "The Orbs are impressive, but bringing them in on a really cool mammoth? That at least doubles how impressive they are."



You narrow your eyes at the scaled form across the Obsidian Hall from you. You knew challenging Dragomas for the title of Supreme Matriarch was not going to be easy. So far he has countered every trick you've thrown at him, as the battle has stretched on far past any you saw at previous challenges. But you have countered every trick of his as well, and you know that you are both running low on energy and options. This next exchange will be the last, the one that decides which Wind will be blowing in Altdorf for the next eight years.

Fortunately a Grey Wizard always has another trick, and yours is a good one. With a brief prayer to Ranald you flex your will and drop your illusion. The chamber goes silent as everyone sees what was always there.

"Wow," Dragomas rumbles after a moment of stunned staring, his draconic voice deep and gravely. "That's a really cool mammoth."

A few more moments pass.

"I can't fight such majesty," he finally continues. "I concede."

Ulgu floods out of the Staff of Volans as you step to the center of the room, spilling out through the streets of Altdorf. You have risen from a Journeyman struggling with conspiracies and student loans to the highest position in the Colleges. You can't help but bask in your accomplishments as you are proclaimed Supreme Matriarch.

Not that anyone is paying attention. They're all too busy staring at your incredibly cool mammoth.



This is all true and 100% accurate. I asked a Blue.

Well, a guy wearing blue.

He also said he was feeling blue, so that's double Blue and if that doesn't mean it's accurate then I don't know what would.
 
Why hello there page 14 000!
Now to try and figure out which of these 14 000 plans I like.

Edit:
This'll do.
[X] Plan Roadmap to Success + Ranald Liminal
 
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I wonder how strong Red Rider actually is. Like it should be stonger than normal Knights on Horse I imagine but how much stronger I wonder.

Like this is the Ghena's Golden Hounds in TW;

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/Q_AXLECzgI0?feature=share

well its supposed to be genuine threat to wizards so it be at least decently strong and iirc boney said that there havent been enough survivors to build a real picture about their capabilities. which implies things.
 
I feel all the multiple plans which multiple apparitions and Windherding enchantments are only hurting the possibility of they succeeding.

Right now Roadmap leads with 29 votes out of 69, this leaves around ~40 people who aren't voting for roadmap and are voting for one of the many many Windherding/Apparition plans.

I hope people vote tactically and compromise once some has passed cause if not I feel roadmap will just end up winning.
It's only been four and a half hours since the vote has opened, far too early to crown a victor.

But yes, in general, folks should probably approval vote widely if they don't like the leading plan and nothing else is very close to it. That's just basic voting strategy.
Why hello there page 14 000!
Now to try and figure out which of these 14 000 plans I like.
This should help!
 
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