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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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DragonParadox said:
You know what we just learned makes the Seviroscope all the more interesting as it would not only allow runesmiths to see the wind but also, if it can be operated at a distance, allow College mages to see magic that has not been forced into neutral by their presence.
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We would have to figure out a way to make a Seviroscope without using the Winds, or the scope would affect the earthbound magic itself.

Boney said:
Not automatically, but they tend to collapse if they're hit with any sort of Wind spell, which is one more reason the Colleges are super dismissive about them.
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Between Cython and Mathilde, has Bok been exposed to levels of Winds that would collapse a more conventional elemental?

I assume an normal elemental also couldn't survive 3000+ years even without exposure to the Winds, so the durability is caused by the Runes somehow.
 
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That's not a rhetorical question. What do you say? Pep talks, threats, commiserations, specific lines of questions, and silence are all valid options, as is whatever else you might think of. You're not going to fix all her problems with a single motivational speech, but you might lay the foundation of a relationship that could help.

[ ] Write in
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My instinct is that this is a case where less is better. Less talk, more silence. Something with actions instead of words. No speeches, absolutely not.

Remember Karag Vlag? The best way to approach a scared cat is to stand very still and let them approach you at their own pace. Makes them feel safer.
 
LawsOfRobotics said:
Between Cython and Mathilde, has Bok been exposed to levels of Winds that would collapse a more conventional elemental?
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Cython was going pretty damn hard basically the whole time Bok was with it, considering Cython was casting major magics while destroying an entire mountain of skaven, and trying to get rid of the nuisance that was Bok, nothing was keeping Bok down though, it just casually reformed everytime.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
Reading her section.. I'm not optimistic finding out about a personal relationship with her master actually makes her feel better about things. Seems more likely to be taken as a reason to be even stricter about any lapse she might find considering the circumstances.

There's just too many things working against a charitable interpretation of basically anything for her at the moment regarding this interaction. Which is why I think the only way forward is acknowledging that first instead of trying to smooth it over and ignore it.
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I'm not suggesting we ignore it, just deemphasize it. There's a difference, and it's not all that hard to be approachable while acknowledging that you're an authority figure.

Briefvoice said:
My instinct is that this is a case where less is better. Less talk, more silence. Something with actions instead of words. No speeches, absolutely not.

Remember Karag Vlag? The best way to approach a scared cat is to stand very still and let them approach you at their own pace. Makes them feel safer.
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We need to do something to set her fears at rest, but inviting questions as others suggest might be preferable to big speeches. My main point is that we should try and be approachable more than anything, and inviting questions plays into that.
 
LawsOfRobotics said:
We would have to figure out a way to make a Seviroscope without using the Winds, or the scope would affect the earthbound magic itself.
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Eh... a ,magic item is not a wizard. My bet is that it would not disturb earthbound magic anywhere near as much as a soul churning with the stuff. Hell you would not even have to do it at a distance, just hand it to an apprentice who has not been marked yet, but who has decent windsight. You would be able to get some useful data out of it I bet.
 
Not, super relevant to anything, but I had a thought strike me the other day that it, feels weird that daemons can sustain themselves on the winds? Like, the Winds are apparently something new and unique to mundus, but daemons can still take them in and fuel themselves with them as if they were raw warp energy? Hell, a bunch of apparitions have even evolved specifically to hunt certain wind users. Hm.
 
Wiggy said:
Not, super relevant to anything, but I had a thought strike me the other day that it, feels weird that daemons can sustain themselves on the winds? Like, the Winds are apparently something new and unique to mundus, but daemons can still take them in and fuel themselves with them as if they were raw warp energy? Hell, a bunch of apparitions have even evolved specifically to hunt certain wind users. Hm.
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I think daemons can use any form of aethyric energy for sustenance. Like, they could use earthbound magic too, if there were enough of it, there just isn't usually.
 
Hmm.

There is no statement Mathilde can make that can convince her that we won't keep an eye on her, nor that we wouldn't put her down if we decided it was necessary.

I think the right move here is to just kinda acknowledge it and move on?

Overall I'm thinking something like:

"I won't insult your intelligence by trying to claim that I won't be keeping an eye on you.

But passing judgement isn't something I relish - the ideal outcome here remains you becoming a splendid wizard, and living a good life in a way that helps the others around you.

So: I'm going to be visiting Karak Eight Peaks and meeting with your Master regularly - you can try to hide away and ignore me, but frankly that probably won't be any better for your nerves than just being open with your concerns from the start.

I'm no Jade Wizard, but if there's any general insights on the Winds or advice on the colleges you want, I'm open to giving advice while I'm around."
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
all that hard to be approachable while acknowledging that you're an authority figure.
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There's a difference between an authority figure and an executioner though, and it seems to me she views Mathilde as closer to the latter. Which I would say is actually pretty hard to be approachable as.

Like look at this:

Boney said:
So when you meet her, her first instinct is to evaluate whether to attack or flee,
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It's not just on the level of some intimidating boss. She's at full on fight or flight at first contact, and only tamping it down with sheer willpower.
 
"It is hard to be a Wizard in the Empire. I've found over the years great comfort in being able to support and be supported by those who understand that too."

Establish some common ground, make a point that we want to establish some common ground, and imply we have a healthy relationship with her master. It can invite questions or be an invitation to talk.
 
Boney said:
erging on likely, that there's elements of the political situation that you're currently unaware of, it does seem as if at least three of those in favour of contact with humans have yet to secure those means - Orodreth, Maeglin, and Nienna.
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Codex said:
House Orodreth: Nagarythian Lileath worshippers in favor of outside contact.

House Nienna: Cothiquan Morai-Heg worshippers in favor of outside contact.

House Maeglin: Tiranocan Atharti worshippers. Used to have a pleasure house by the name of "Ladroi Nastir". In favor of outside contact.
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Does Mathilde know anything about House Orodreth, besides their patron Goddess?
That they're from pre-Sundering Nagarythe.
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"Sarvoi? Cadaeth?"

"I've a counterpart in House Nienna that might be able to put me on the right track," Sarvoi says thoughtfully.
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Sarvoi reached out to House Nienna for advice on the induced correspondence thing. Nienna are Cothiquan Morai-Heg worshippers, so I wonder why they have any insight into this matter. Maybe this is an underworldy thing because we're literally inducing some sort of symbolic resonance with stuff underground, and so the underworld Goddess has some insights? Or is it because water is involved, and Cothique is Ulthuan's water level?

The Eltharin words for induced correspondence mean something like 'to imprison within fate', which is Morai-Heg's bailiwick.
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You're not sure what the proper reaction is to having your title so mangled by a Queen, but you try not to let any of it show on your face. "Worship of Vylmar has been outlawed for centuries in the Empire."

She frowns. "Why?"

"He was seen as too similar to the Tempter, I believe."

Her frown deepens. "Did this forbidding banish all desire for pleasure from the Empire?"

"I don't believe it did."

"Then why cede all that ground to the Tempter?" She waves a hand dismissively. "You needn't answer that. It's a debate I've heard too many times among my own people, and those that champion it the loudest are so often those that stand to gain should House Maeglin fall in stature. Perhaps the same dynamic was at play among your people."
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"I am not here as a client to a patron," my Master said, in a tone of voice that shapes reality as sure as her grasp of Ulgu. "I am here as a courtesy. If you don't take this deal, Sumier probably will. If neither of you do, Maeglin definitely will."

"Are you suggesting that House Maeglin would assent to to Tor Lithanel becoming reliant on the Empire for sustenance?" replied the Elf archly, wary suspicion underpinning the condescension.
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This is all the info that's been mentioned on these three. @Boney is there any more information on these houses that might be pertinent in our library or is this the extent of it?
 
Honestly, maybe a strictly business style onboarding type thing would be the best way forward. The Duckling club was disbanded but all of the facilities still exist, and she's the first wizard to be living here since it disbanded and needs to be told about them. Let her know about where the labs are, the magic section of the library, the training range, etc.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Hmm.

There is no statement Mathilde can make that can convince her that we won't keep an eye on her, nor that we wouldn't put her down if we decided it was necessary.

I think the right move here is to just kinda acknowledge it and move on?

Overall I'm thinking something like:

"I won't insult your intelligence by trying to claim that I won't be keeping an eye on you.

But passing judgement isn't something I relish - the ideal outcome here remains you becoming a splendid wizard, and living a good life in a way that helps the others around you.

So: I'm going to be visiting Karak Eight Peaks and meeting with your Master regularly - you can try to hide away and ignore me, but frankly that probably won't be any better for your nerves than just being open with your concerns from the start.

I'm no Jade Wizard, but if there's any general insights on the Winds or advice on the colleges you want, I'm open to giving advice while I'm around."
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That is a good start but if we want a relationship with her we should also talk about things other than how we are totally going to cut off her head if it becomes necessary. Some suggestions:
  • Talk to her about Tilea, we are going to be visiting there soon on business, might as well get some local insight
  • Invite her to use the library, introduce her to the We, if memory serves Panoramia does not deal that well with them so she would struggle with that bit
  • Ask her what she thinks of K8P in general, this is a pretty weird and interesting place
 
The Phoenixian said:
Oh, well THAT certainly seems like it has implications for studying the Primordial Winds.

What gives the Winds of Magic their nature if not reality itself? The winds do. Like a gas fire or the compression wave of an echoing shout. If the flow of gas were stopped or the continuous nature of the air were ever broken completely it would fade out and the new would not resound with sound nor ignite, but as long as the chain remains unbroken then the energy can carry on forever.

Someone, once upon a time, spoke the likes of Aqshy, Ulgu, and Dhar. Gave these things the connotations and nature and in so doing It lit a flame that became the winds the world knows, and between the polar wastes pouring new in and the vortex drawing old out, that fire has burned ever since.

At least, that's my instant hypothesis on the spot.
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It might also explain how AV can expand Powerstones. When AV detonates normally it turns into incorporeal Wind because the influence of the Winds is omnipresent. But when near a stronger source of influence like Ranald's Coin it turns into that. And the reason AV can make Powerstones grow is because Powerstones are also a source of influence, instead of turning into the intangible form of Wind the Powerstone catalyzes its transformation directly into the solid Powerstone phase of Wind without any intermediary steps.
 
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Well, when meeting a dangerous magic user "her first instinct is to attack or flee", but we also think she made it out of Sylvania as a kid, at a time when it was completely wrecked by sieges and fighting. She's more like a cold, determined survivor, I think.

On a lighter note, Eike is a boat nerd, so she'd probably love hanging out in Lothern on the elfcation.
 
Boney said:
it does seem as if at least three of those in favour of contact with humans have yet to secure those means - Orodreth, Maeglin, and Nienna.
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What about Quendalmanliye? I don't remember them being mentioned. Are they also involved with the sea trade?
Also did Mathilde ever learn more about houses Orodreth and Nienna? Does she know what the sources of their influence in Tor Lithanel are, besides dominating the worship of Lileath/Morai-Heg?
 
Thomasfoolery said:
Honestly, maybe a strictly business style onboarding type thing would be the best way forward. The Duckling club was disbanded but all of the facilities still exist, and she's the first wizard to be living here since it disbanded. Let her now about where the labs are, the magic section of the library, etc.
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Honestly, I like that.

As a general skeleton, something like:

- Yeah yeah, I'm keeping an eye on you, you know the drill.
- Seriously though, I'm not exactly on a hair trigger, the empire needs wizards, not corpses.
- Anyway, did Panoramia show you all the basics around here? Fill in whatever Sofia doesn't already know re: the magical facilities of K8P and the library.
- I'mma be around a bunch, between the Library and my close ties to your master, so you should probably try to get used to me. Might as well ask me for advice on stuff to get something out of the deal for yourself, huh?
 
LawsOfRobotics said:
Between Cython and Mathilde, has Bok been exposed to levels of Winds that would collapse a more conventional elemental?
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Just existing might have been a problem in the old world if sufficient amount of ambient winds would unravel elementals, but stone is an excellent insulator of magic, so maybe that's what gives Bok it's longevity.
 
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If she's someone who utterly lives in fear and is presumably leaning on Ghyran because it helps that… I suppose we could lead with some of the times Mathilde as a Wizard has been afraid in spite of her magic.

I don't think there's anything we can do here to make her comfortable or at ease with us, especially given who we are, but I do think we can insert ourselves into her worldview that's defined by fear.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Honestly, I like that.

As a general skeleton, something like:

- Yeah yeah, I'm keeping an eye on you, you know the drill.
- Seriously though, I'm not exactly on a hair trigger, the empire needs wizards, not corpses.
- Anyway, did Panoramia show you all the basics around here? Fill in whatever Sofia doesn't already know re: the magical facilities of K8P and the library.
- I'mma be around a bunch, between the Library and my close ties to your master, so you should probably try to get used to me. Might as well ask me for advice on stuff to get something out of the deal for yourself, huh?
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Yeah, something like that seems like the way forward to me, gives a good buffer to let her slowly acclimate to Mathilde. While lowkey letting her know that Mathilde isn't just a faceless executioner, she actually helped plenty of other wizards in their careers.
 
Talk about how a neighing wooden toy horse almost sent a child to the bonfire while her parents stood by, and now that child is a Lord Magister?

I am unsure why she is addicted in the first place.
 
[X] Do you like sheep? I don't, but I know a couple people who do.

Randomness it is. Sheep fief probably found a green wizard to employ, but I'm sure they'll move on eventually.
 
That was an extremely interesting look at how Elementalism works. Mathilde's pride as a College Wizard might be bruised, but a deeper understanding of Earthbound magic and the knowledge that the Elementalists are fundamentally incapable of standing up to the Colleges will soothe it, I'm sure.

The note on the possible link to Ice Magic is also very interesting. The Ice Witches don't fall apart in close contact with Collegiate magic though, which indicates there's something more to it. Maybe that's what their Waystone network is doing, reinforcing Ice Magic to let it stand up to the Winds? The lack of permanent ice further south would also explain why Ice Magic gets weaker as you get further from Kislev.
 
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