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NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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Solar Saiyan said:
Say, @Imperial Fister, would it be possible to commission Sten to make some Good Forged Iron Mail Armour for Halla and Abjorn? I dont want it for free, but rather pay him with silver or iron, or a combination of both. He can make Mail armour right?
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We'll be able to do this ourselves in two turns, so I don't think we need to? Sten's might be better, but ours will be pretty good and quite a lot cheaper.

Also, Abjorn is still growing, I think, so while we might buy him something cheap in the meantime, we should wait for him to hit his full height before we spend on mail for him.
 
Halla's character notes when we created her were "Viking Nanoha" and this?

[X] Heal the brother (-12 Orthstirr) (???)

This is the Nanoha option.

Incidentally, if anyone asks this isn't Halla being sentimental or anything, she's just paying respect to an honourable opponent!

Imperial Fister said:
You match the Brute's bloodthirsty grin with one of your own. Kindred spirits, you and him.

Shame that one of you has to die.

But such is life.
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Good news Halla!

Turns out none of you have to die even if you kill each other.
 
... hooooo boy, if that's what the guy's packing...

Plasma would be in the Fire School, and very dangerous, but might also explain how he got a Soot Alloy if he mixed that with Campfire, or a different unequipped Hugareida
 
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DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Eh. Those three attacks would've dealt maybe 6 Damage (given this guy's damage reduction), while tanking four attacks more easily would've saved us 4 Health. But more relevantly, putting an extra die each into those three attacks would've cost us only 3 Orthstirr and made two of them hit. The value of Offense Tuned Reflexes on that turn is thus about 4 Orthstirr. But we can do the same thing with a better feel for how many dice to put into things and careful orthstirr usage rather than investing a shapeshifting choice into it.
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That's not true. I only listed the attacks that we missed where it was close enough for the bonus to push us over. You don't get to retroactively make correct guesses about which ones that was going to be. The orthstirr cost to give that kind of boost to every attack we swung with would have been significantly higher. For an estimate of that... over the course of the fight, up to the point where victory was determined, we threw (by my eyeball count) 57 dice on the attack (that's actually thrown, not just voted and planned). +57 points would be roughly equivalent to 16 additional dice. That's rather more than 4 points of orthstirr.

Like, Offense Tuned Reflexes is good, but it doesn't do anything we can't do with Orthstirr, and often relatively small amounts of orthstirr in all honestly...we can't spend Orthstirr to reduce the damage of otherwise successful hits on Trick Attacks (we can do some of that for normal attacks with Reinforce Shield, but not Trick Attacks).
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We can spend orthstirr to make attacks simply not succeed, though, which has a much higher payoff once we get some more mastery in our defenses. We're actually shockingly good at it, which is why we keep not investing much at all in defensive dice. Additionally... well, three of the four attacks that hit us were normal attacks, and wound up doing a total of 1 point of armor damage after chewing through our 4 orthstirr worth of Reinforce layers.

Basically, long run, we'll have lots of defensive responses coming out of our tricks. In general, we'll be taking hits in one of three situations.
- We've chosen to, because taking it on reinforce layers is actually cheaper than preventing it.
- We are caught by surprise by some hugareida that denies is both halting-vortex and sidestep for some reason, and we haven't managed to develop some third thing that will work instead.
- We are critically short on orthstirr and everything is bad and wrong.

The first isn't a problem, though having damage reduction will make it more efficient. The second is a problem, potentially, especially if it eats a whole bunch of reinforce layers, but it's not an insurmountable one, it's likely to be reasonably rare, and having damage reduction isn't going to help but so much, since each hit is likely to be high-dice, and the first hit of it will eat whatever's left of our reinforce Shield regardless of how much gets through. Fortunately, we at least get a re-plan at that point. The third is absolutely a potential issue, and seems likely to be the way we die (if we die in battle) but "kill your enemies faster" seems to me like it might be more useful than damage reduction on avoiding the problems of this one.

I'm not saying that it's better under all circumstances, but it seems to me like Offense Tuned Reflexes leans into and augments the style that we have already and are already good at (big tanks of orthstirr, feeding an aggressive combat style where we try to burn our enemies down quickly while avoiding damage via trick defenses that cost orthstirr but no dice). By contrast, Thickened Skin is just sort of generically useful (and being able to no-sell the attacks of weaklings is cool) but it really doesn't have synergy with the rest of our build in the same way.

In setups like that, I'm generally inclined to go with the one that feeds the build, unless the generic benefit is obviously better... which is not at all the case here.
 
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Yeah, if we consider that his Hugareida might actually be Plasma based (Which I'd figure very much would be in the Fire School), then that's both better and worse than I feared.

Better in the sense that we can actually block that, but worse in the sense that this combined with something that generates soot?

That tells me "Pyroclastic Volcanic Eruption - The Build", which is a problem for us because that's the kind of thing that just being around is Bad News Bears. And doubly puts us on the clock, especially if he can stack it. If he's wearing a Molten Iron Hauberk, then he can ignore the damage longer than most people, and in an enclosed space like this?

Yeah, we definitely want Abjorn and Gabriel using the oil, to buy a bit more time if that's the case. It would effectively give us a 'Free Round' in the event that he can constantly be turning up the heat before people start taking damage from it. And that might be the difference between victory and defeat.

Might still be Lightning, but it's a very real possibility--depends, I think, if Lightning is a school of it's own, or considered to be part of whatever School of Hugareida involves weather phenomena. Certainly, I can't think of a lot of applications of Lightning that aren't "Fuck that place in particular", which suggests it's a specific Hugareida rather than a whole school of it, but I could be wrong.
 
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TehChron said:
Hey @Imperial Fister , would Halla recognize St. Elmo's Fire if she saw it?
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Halla would not, though she's likely heard stories that have included it.

0~0~0

Note: Damage Reduction through shapeshifting only applies to Endurance Damage. It doesn't apply to damage dealt to your Armor, Shield, or Layer health pools.
Alectai said:
That tells me "Pyroclastic Volcanic Eruption - The Build", which is a problem for us because that's the kind of thing that just being around is Bad News Bears. And doubly puts us on the clock, especially if he can stack it.
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Funnily enough, that was Hallr's shtick before he got his hands in Ilmarinen's. His preferred fighting method was to douse people in lava.
 
Imperial Fister said:
Funnily enough, that was Hallr's shtick before he got his hands in Ilmarinen's. His preferred fighting method was to douse people in lava.
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I mean, if it works, why not use it? It strikes me as being a build that's really fucking hard to deal with outside of very specific counterplay.

Speaking of which, is Lightning a full Hugareida School or is it a specific thing in another one? Thor being one of our ancestors suggests that it's a Specific Thing in Fire, but I think you mentioned a while back that this wasn't the case?
 
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Sirrocco said:
That's not true. I only listed the attacks that we missed where it was close enough for the bonus to push us over. You don't get to retroactively make correct guesses about which ones that was going to be. The orthstirr cost to give that kind of boost to every attack we swung with would have been significantly higher. For an estimate of that... over the course of the fight, up to the point where victory was determined, we threw (by my eyeball count) 57 dice on the attack (that's actually thrown, not just voted and planned). +57 points would be roughly equivalent to 16 additional dice. That's rather more than 4 points of orthstirr.
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It's 16 points of Orthstirr, to be specific...which is still not that much, to be honest. What we should maybe have done, looking back, is just added one more die to everything (for 11-22 Orthstirr total...starting to be a more relevant amount at the high end there), or around that anyway. Still some waste but more things hitting.

But the thing is that specific combat wasn't my point. My point was that pinpointing what dice we should put into things is a skill issue for us the Questers and an area we need to improve in...but also that as we get better at it, we can better analyze that and better know what dice to assign to what against what kind of opponents and thus entirely obviate the need for Offense Attuned Reflexes.

And the thing is, that's a skill we need even if we get Offense Attuned Reflexes if we want to actually take advantage of it, since its real advantage is that we're better per die...that requires we be able to guess how many dice they're using pretty accurately to take advantage of. But if we have that skill, we don't need the ability in the first place.

Sirrocco said:
I submit that if you've found yourself twisting the math that hard to try to defend your position, it's worth taking a moment to step back and reconsider if your position is worth defending.
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I'm not twisting the math, I'm saying correctly planning how many dice to put into things is possible, and can do what Offense Attuned Reflexes does without expending the slot, if often at some additional Orthstirr cost.

Imperial Fister said:
Note: Damage Reduction through shapeshifting only applies to Endurance Damage. It doesn't apply to damage dealt to your Armor, Shield, or Layer health pools.
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However, in light of this, my argument for Damage Reduction is basically gone, as this makes damage reduction a lot less appealing for us specifically (Mastered Reinforce Shield and this benefit do not play well together having a distinct anti-synergy), which may well make Offense Attuned Reflexes our best option. Though I think the +1 damage can be taken twice and that might also be worth considering as well.
 
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Alectai said:
Speaking of which, is Lightning a full Hugareida School or is it a specific thing in another one? Thor being one of our ancestors suggests that it's a Specific Thing in Fire, but I think you mentioned a while back that this wasn't the case?
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Thor isn't actually your ancestor, though you are related to him.

Lightning is in a similar vein of hugareida as Standstill, in that it's in its own separate category even if it may technically be part of one. Technically, Lightning is in Weather, which Wind is technically a sub-school of.
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
However, in light of this, my argument for Damage Reduction is a lot less heartfelt, as this makes damage reduction a lot less appealing for us specifically, which may make Offense Attuned Reflexes our best option. Though I think +1 damage can be taken twice and that might also be worth considering.
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I recommend waiting until you know how shapeshifting actually works before you get down to arguing.
 
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Imperial Fister said:
Thor isn't actually your ancestor, though you are related to him.

Lightning is in a similar vein of hugareida as Standstill, in that it's in its own separate category even if it may technically be part of one. Technically, Lightning is in Weather, which Wind is technically a sub-school of.

I recommend waiting until you know how shapeshifting actually works before you get down to arguing.
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Right, you mentioned something about Shapecrafting too--is that a higher level application of Hamr or is it something entirely different?

Hmm. So, Lightning is in Weather but is kind of only adjacently attached to the rest of it and doesn't usually play nice with its neighbors, but is still grouped with it for ease of grouping? Kind of like how Standstill falls under the Motion umbrella but is a snooty person who refuses to dance with mostly everyone else?

Kind of like how Fire seems to have its baseline stuff as Wildfire/Ignition/Forgefire as a grouping that plays nicely together, but Illmarinen's Fire is technically under the grouping but you can't get it no matter how you twist the other aspects? You either have it or you don't?
 
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Alectai said:
Right, you mentioned something about Shapecrafting too--is that a higher level application of Hamr or is it something entirely different?
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It's actually a type of seid

Shapecrafting is a proud, manly occupation done by big, manly men with lots of hair and big, bulging biceps!
Alectai said:
Hmm. So, Lightning is in Weather but is kind of only adjacently attached to the rest of it and doesn't usually play nice with its neighbors, but is still grouped with it for ease of grouping?

Kind of like how Fire seems to have its baseline stuff as Wildfire/Ignition/Forgefire as a grouping that plays nicely together, but Illmarinen's Fire is technically under the grouping but you can't get it no matter how you twist the other aspects? You either have it or you don't?
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Pretty much. In order to get Lightning, you gotta get struck by it.

Needless to say, the survival rate for this one isn't especially high.

Lightning does play nicely with certain hugareida, though.
 
Imperial Fister said:
It's actually a type of seid

Shapecrafting is a proud, manly occupation done by big, manly men with lots of hair and big, bulging biceps!

Pretty much. In order to get Lightning, you gotta get struck by it.

Needless to say, the survival rate for this one isn't especially high.

Lightning does play nicely with certain hugareida, though.
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Ooof, I guess then that this requires the one going for it to be extremely chonk. Since I imagine Lightning is exceptionally good at bypassing defenses and armor.

Like, Abjorn Chonk. It does mean that it's less likely that this guy'll have it, but if he does...

Tell me, does surviving getting hit by a Lightning Hugareida Trick count as "Surviving getting struck by it?" Or is it exclusively a prize you get for getting hit by the Real Thing?
 
Imperial Fister said:
It's actually a type of seid

Shapecrafting is a proud, manly occupation done by big, manly men with lots of hair and big, bulging biceps!
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Ohhh, that's pretty close to Stabilizing Palm and Healing Seidr in general.

We should ask Hallr for more Seidr tricks. Shapecrafting ones if possible.

Although we really need to get Hallr's techniques for closing the gate if we want to teach others how to gather Odr.
 
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