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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Murazor said:
Though the Tzeentch related issues are many and severe, the weakening of reality is the most immediate one and Belegar absolutely deserves to know at least that much.
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Note that the weakening of reality appears to be a temporary problem that will go away on its own and not something that Belegar can do anything about beyond worry, I think.

Telling him isn't a huge issue, but neither should not telling him.
 
Aranfan said:
Van Hal's Diary, Vlad's notes on his ring... Do the ramblings of W'soran count I thought they weren't considered off limits?
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There's official ways to get a properly expurgated copy from the Priory of the Spear, but that's not what Mathilde has. Having an unauthorized version isn't quite as eyebrow-raising as the other two, but it's still not the done thing.
 
At this point I'd almost change my vote to strengthen the currently-winning Belegar vote and to weaken the College one, but they have some really solid leads, and I don't really disapprove them enough to meaningfully argue against them.
 
This is just an idle question while I'm rereading the last two updates for analysis. Does anyone else find background music to listen to while reading the updates? I always do that. It really helps set the mood and I think enhances the experience. I try to find fitting music based on what I expect the update to be. For example, this is the music I had set for Architecture of Fate. I'd like to think it set the mood quite well.

Maybe this isn't common, but I very much like listening to music while reading the updates. At least for the first time.
 
So I need someone to explain a sentence to me. I understand most of the update, but something Mathilde says confused me because of the sentence structure:

"Which means that the Winds can't be born of the mere inertia of what already is. Reality is being imposed upon Chaos by something other than reality."

Mathilde concludes that Vitae is unreactive and was a raw substance of the Aethyr, which became winds when it came into reality, and therefore reflects reality. When forced into a space between reality and unreality it continued mimicking what would be typical of the space she was in because there was no outside influence, real or unreal, acting on it. This is the conclusion Mathilde comes up with. where she says that "reality is being imposed upon Chaos by something other than reality". The sentence structure then begins to confuse me.

Reality imposes itself upon Chaos by something other than reality? What does she mean here? I can't parse it.
 
Codex said:
Reality imposes itself upon Chaos by something other than reality? What does she mean here? I can't parse it.
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I can't quite remember the details, but iirc AV turns into stuff that is nearby. In Windrich environment it turns into Winds, and when exposed to Divine Energies it turned into more Divine Energy. Now, Mathilde has pushed it out of reality and it turned into mini-reality. What was it mimicking if there is no reality outside reality?
 
Codex said:
So I need someone to explain a sentence to me. I understand most of the update, but something Mathilde says confused me because of the sentence structure:

"Which means that the Winds can't be born of the mere inertia of what already is. Reality is being imposed upon Chaos by something other than reality."

Mathilde concludes that Vitae is unreactive and was a raw substance of the Aethyr, which became winds when it came into reality, and therefore reflects reality. When forced into a space between reality and unreality it continued mimicking what would be typical of the space she was in because there was no outside influence, real or unreal, acting on it. This is the conclusion Mathilde comes up with. where she says that "reality is being imposed upon Chaos by something other than reality". The sentence structure then begins to confuse me.

Reality imposes itself upon Chaos by something other than reality? What does she mean here? I can't parse it.
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When Aethyr enters reality it turns into the Winds, which all represent aspects of reality - life, death, light, shadow, and so on. Why do they do this, instead of turning into, say, Dhar, or aspects of the Chaos Gods, or completely alien concepts, or a more basic form of energy like light or heat? The traditional explanation for why this is is because they are influenced by reality itself. That reality (that the Winds are based on aspects of reality) is imposed upon Chaos by reality (that they take on aspects of the world when they enter it). But in the course of this experiment, Mathilde completely isolated the Vitae from reality and still they turned into the Winds, instead of turning back into Aethyr or something else or not transforming at all. So something else is making Vitae, and therefore the Aethyr, turn into the Winds, something whose influence is found not only in reality, but also in the liminal border.
 
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Codex said:
"Which means that the Winds can't be born of the mere inertia of what already is. Reality is being imposed upon Chaos by something other than reality."
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Idk the lore aspects of it but I think it's suggesting that the winds of magic do not behave like a perpetual motion machine would. Some similar to Newton's first law of motion. Something is acting on the winds meaning they can't create more of itself by it simply already existing. Therefore Reality (that being the winds and everything they bring including order) are being created and restraining Chaos through some method that is not the winds being self perpetuating.

Hope this helps. I'm also kind of confused by the wording. 😅

Mathilde'd
 
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Boney said:
When Aethyr enters reality it turns into the Winds, which all represent aspects of reality - life, death, light, shadow, and so on. Why do they do this, instead of turning into, say, Dhar, or aspects of the Chaos Gods, or completely alien concepts, or a more basic form of energy like light or heat? The traditional explanation for why this is is because they are influenced by reality itself. That reality (that the Winds are based on aspects of reality) is imposed upon Chaos by reality (that they take on aspects of the world when they enter it). But in the course of this experiment, Mathilde completely isolated the Vitae from reality and still they turned into the Winds, instead of turning back into Aethyr or something else or not transforming at all. So something else is making Vitae, and therefore the Aethyr, turn into the Winds, something whose influence is found not only in reality, but also in the liminal border.
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Presumably there's also the option that reality's influence extends/leaks into the liminal boundary, so she's mistaken when she thinks it was completely isolated from reality.

Just as the Aethyr spills into reality when a tear is open, the reverse could be true as well, making regions adjacent to reality take on some of reality's nature. Alternatively, just as things in/of the Aethyr can influence reality via a soul that may (or may not span) both, so to could Mathilde's soul act as a vector conducting reality's influence to touch the AV. Or similarly, Mathilde's soul could be imbued with reality's signature and so imprint it on the AV.
 
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For whatever it's worth, I think that revelation definitely feels like the capstone of AV. What, or who, is imposing reality on the Winds?

It's a very fitting last-ish action.
 
Codex said:
So I need someone to explain a sentence to me. I understand most of the update, but something Mathilde says confused me because of the sentence structure:

"Which means that the Winds can't be born of the mere inertia of what already is. Reality is being imposed upon Chaos by something other than reality."

Mathilde concludes that Vitae is unreactive and was a raw substance of the Aethyr, which became winds when it came into reality, and therefore reflects reality. When forced into a space between reality and unreality it continued mimicking what would be typical of the space she was in because there was no outside influence, real or unreal, acting on it. This is the conclusion Mathilde comes up with. where she says that "reality is being imposed upon Chaos by something other than reality". The sentence structure then begins to confuse me.

Reality imposes itself upon Chaos by something other than reality? What does she mean here? I can't parse it.
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Iirc the problem is that if vitae is unreactive why is it's Modus operandi when squeezed to make reality. The liminal realm it made is more like reality then it the warp, if it comes from the warp it should have made something like the warp, but it didn't. So something is making the vitae make reality and it's not reality because as was said, it's unreactive to reality.

Edit: i got stabbed by eshin-friend...
 
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Parabola said:
For whatever it's worth, I think that revelation definitely feels like the capstone of AV. What, or who, is imposing reality on the Winds?

It's a very fitting last-ish action.
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I would hesitantly raise the possibility of the old ones also known as the Shaan-tar. We've had conversations with both dragons about them and if they shaped the world they could also be responsible for how the winds work.
 
Parabola said:
For whatever it's worth, I think that revelation definitely feels like the capstone of AV. What, or who, is imposing reality on the Winds?

It's a very fitting last-ish action.
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Making people doubt the results of any discoveries leading from that investigation could be yet another reason the daemon may want Mathilde to discredit herself.
 
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All of this talking about forbidden knowledge makes me wonder. Why the heck didn't Van Hal destroy the Liber Morris when he had it? Why would he give it to us? Surely he knew that it would be extremely sketch for him a Van Hal of all people to have the book?
 
Abhorsen said:
@Boney , Can we destroy the books we should have, then contact the college?
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OK this is getting silly, but I am going to try this one more time:
  1. By what mechanism would the colleges know we even have books in Belegar's treasury? The only person we asked was him and the only people who saw us put them there are his guards. All these people are dwarfs who live on the edge of the known world, in an insular society where we are the only Grey Wizard.
  2. Assuming by some miracle, Tzeench personally talking to Algard say, the Colleges know we have some books in there how are the going to get at them? It is a diplomatic mindfield that they would have to navigate for a literal shot in the dark.
 
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First Resort
  • Media
    • picklepikkl said:
    Cut demons into pieces, this is my last first resort
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    This is entirely your fault:

    Cut your life into pieces
    This is my first resort
    Evisceration, much bleeding
    Don't give a fuck bout the damned lies you're feeding

    This is my first resort
    Cut your life into pieces
    I've reached my first resort, choking shadow, no breathing
    Don't give a fuck if I burn your mind reading
    Do I even care if you die pleading?


    Would it be wrong, would it be right?
    If I took your tomes tonight
    Chances are that I might
    Hiding treasure out of sight
    And I'm contemplating homicide
    'Cause I'm cloaking your sight, holing your mind
    Wish some headpats would tell me I'm fine
    Cloaking your sight, holing your mind
    Wish some headpats would tell me I'm fine


    I always realized I was spread too thin
    So I trade some loot to bind apparitions
    Angry, dunking on chaos and burning out sin
    Research backlog, where do I begin?
    It all started when I found my lover
    Got love for myself and more love for another
    Searching to find a truth upon a higher level
    Finding nothing but questions and devils


    'Cause I'm cloaking your sight, holing your mind
    Wish some headpats would tell me I'm fine
    Cloaking your sight, holing your mind
    Wish some headpats would tell me I'm fine
    Hot ale's not right
    But Wolf is fine
    I'm casting and you're dying
    You're dying, you're dying, you're dying, you're dying
    You won't go on living this way
    Cut your life into pieces
    This is my first resort
    Evisceration, much bleeding
    Don't give a fuck bout the damned lies you're feeding
    Would it be wrong, would it be right?
    If I took your tomes tonight
    Chances are that I might
    Liber Mortis out of sight
    And I'm contemplating homicide
    'Cause I'm cloaking your sight, holing your mind
    Wish some headpats would tell me I'm fine
    Cloaking your sight, holing your mind
    Wish Wizard Dad would tell me I'm fine
    Nothing's alright
    Nothing is fine
    I'm casting and you're dying
    You won't go on living this way
    Won't go on
    Living this way
    Now it's alright



    Last Resort, Papa Roach
     
  • Media
    • Mishar said:
    All of this talking about forbidden knowledge makes me wonder. Why the heck didn't Van Hal destroy the Liber Morris when he had it? Why would he give it to us? Surely he knew that it would be extremely sketch for him a Van Hal of all people to have the book?
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    Same reason why the Cult of Sigmar keeps an uncensored copy in their vaults; for all the danger the thing is too useful, especially in undead central, to destroy when it just might save everyone in a crisis.
     
    Boneys stuff has fully convinced me that this Mean to be a vote where the consequences are worse.

    [X] [BELEGAR] Weakening of reality
    [X] [COLLEGE] Nothing

    Granted, If it turns out that this ends up having consequences, and it wasn't just all smoke and mirrors, I will probably be very bitter.
     
    Mishar said:
    All of this talking about forbidden knowledge makes me wonder. Why the heck didn't Van Hal destroy the Liber Morris when he had it? Why would he give it to us? Surely he knew that it would be extremely sketch for him a Van Hal of all people to have the book?
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    We know the answer to this one: "Just in case."

    Should the worst ever happen and another Vampire War break out, the Liber Mortis holds the key to unmake entire armies, which has happened before. That's how the Grand Theogonist of the Third Vampire War's time ended it. It's very much a 'break glass in case youve already tried everything else'. It's a burden to bear.

    The Van Hal line understood that the actual safest way to protect something is anonymity - only a single living person at a time being aware of it. Now, we are the single living person who does have the original. In a sense, giving it to the Grey College would be less safe because now both Mathilde and they (presumably more than one person would verify it after opening a package containing it) would know where it is.
     
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