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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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consequences said:
In a universe where the thread madness starts winning turn votes:

"Library Access or I drop the Orbs into a volcano!"

"So you could challenge me for the position of Supreme Patriarch. Or your college could receive another Orb. Your call."

"Say it! Say that Celestials Drool, Shadow Wizards Rule! Better yet, sing it!"

"Ok Dragomas, there's only one way to settle this fairly. You and Thorek, dance off for the next four years of output."
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power truly does corrupt.

also, Can I just point out that the power stone experiment was perfectly possible when we were still a Journeywoman: could have even been our masterpiece.

Lets just sit on that thought.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
power truly does corrupt.

also, Can I just point out that the power stone experiment was perfectly possible when we were still a Journeywoman: could have even been our masterpiece.

Lets just sit on that thought.
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…Man I'm glad I didn't join until after we were already around Eight Peaks. I would be so ashamed right now.

Granted, I still am that it took this long regardless, but damn.
consequences said:
"Ok Dragomas, there's only one way to settle this fairly. You and Thorek, dance off for the next four years of output."
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I mean, if I remember correctly the Dwarves only really need a gallon or two every four years or so? And have a massive head start with how much we gave Thorek already. The real question is what Thorek would offer to delay the next batch of Orbs for a year or so.
 
[X] Cython
[X] Locals

I'd rather either integrate the library more fully into K8P and have locals, who consider K8P their home, working for it or to have an Emperor Dragon as the librarian. Locals are loyal and more vetted and live here. An Emperor Dragon is impressive and terrifying and prestigious, and a partnership might give it a reason to care about part of the Karak more.

The spiders... I don't really like or want for librarians. Spiders are creepy. :V Slightly more seriously, I'd rather have humans/dwarfs/halflings or a dragon as a librarian rather than spiders. People would be more comfortable with humans or dwarfs working at the library. And while a dragon is intimidating, a dragon is also something that people know of, and furthermore Cython would hire people to work, and wouldn't be the sole library staff. Locals or the Emperor Dragon would bring benefits. Picking the We feels like just trying for cool points or to give them something to do; and they're not an Emperor Dragon, so 'giving them something to do' isn't really at the top of my list.
 
consequences said:
In a universe where the thread madness starts winning turn votes:
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Starts? Bold of you to assume we're not already kinda there.

"Hey so I haven't yet put into practice the secret of Gehenna's Golden Hounds and I'm really busy, you think you could capture a Rider in Red for me? No? Well, ok, I guess you could get me a giant robot. Or, no, how about a seviroscope? A thingy which I just made up and totally haven't been idly wondering about for the past few years."

Jyn Ryvia said:
power truly does corrupt.

also, Can I just point out that the power stone experiment was perfectly possible when we were still a Journeywoman: could have even been our masterpiece.

Lets just sit on that thought.
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A painful thought if there was ever any. Still, lets think on the positives here: If the thread had done this as a Journeywoman, Mathilde would not have had the option to flex as hard as she currently can.
 
DragonParadox said:
And an immortal We could learn fifteen kinds of emerging science... or not. We are not in the position to make plans for ages to come IMO.
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The question is whether a single person (which is what the We are) can adapt to becoming the kind of welcoming and helpful library staff that a massive and well visited modern library will eventually require. Maybe the We is capable of that level of multitasking. In the University omakes they became a teacher teaching multiple class rooms simultaneously, so it is at least imaginable. But maybe the We is not quite capable, due to physical limitations that will not go away.
Ericwinter said:
Now, my only problem with making the Orbs of Sorcery is that Mathilde probably wouldn't get one for herself. I mean, unless she just kept the Ulgu one out of any given set, but while she would be well within her rights, presumably, it would be mildly less impressive and obvious to Algard.

Then again, making him wonder what the heck Mathilde needs a personal Orb of Sorcery for would be funny.
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We could save up to make two sets at the same time. Then we can gift one and still keep one in case Dragomas decides that we should hand over the AV box (in exchange for fair compensation) if we at all care about the good of the Empire. The extra Orbs we can use to share with Egrimm, as bargaining chips or to get up to fun shenanigans with the Eonir. Maybe Adela can build a nuclear bomb out of the Aqshy one. Or just make the gyrocarriage into a widescale napalm thrower that doesn't consume fuel to fly.
K von Carstein said:
One problem is that an Orb is the size of a human head, which makes its incorporation in a staff not really practical. I think it's also overkill, and that that much magic would just burn out the staff.
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Kragg's staff has something larger than a Human head on his staff. Human heads really aren't that large.
Nurgle said:
Boney already said if Cython wanted to Steal it their really is nothing we could do. But the thing is their is a good chance he will put his hoard of books and scrolls with Mathilde. Gaining access to a dragon who value knowledge library would be worth the risk.
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Yes, but getting used to having the Library might get him to the point where he wants to do it.

In other words, we're not worried about giving him the ability. We're worried about giving him the motive.
TaliesinSkye said:
It doesn't sound like the orbs can be used as ongoing power supplies. The options seem to be to use them all at once (which sounds Unwise) or to take advantage of their passive effects on nearby reality to amplify other spellcasting.
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The canon versions literally are machines that shoot big magic at a low cooldown. "Altering reality" is literally how all spells work, so Boney wasn't inconsistent with canon or anything when he said that.
DragonParadox said:
Well we would make a deal with him so he does not do that, now he could of course break it... but as the GM put it if he wanted to steal our library he could do it anyway with or without a title.
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You want to make a deal with Cython in which he swears, to a mortal no less, that he won't ever change scenery for his main home for the next, say, five thousand years? Why the hell would he want to agree to that and why would we do that to him?
Or are you thinking of a shorter timespan? How long do you want the Library to have a Dragon librarian.
Ericwinter said:
On Cython it's worth noting that it would be a partner. Not the new owner. There's no way Mathilde would just tell sell the library to it or something.
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What about if Mathilde dies? Will Cython accept that some new mortal inherits her part of the partnership and becomes Cython's equal?
 
Mathilde as a Journeywoman might not have had the thorough understanding of everything involved to immediately catch on to the possibilities.

Or, at least, would likely have had to roll for it. With a failure possibly meaning the line of research closes entirely. Or, at least, we'd have little idea of how much AV would be required to create Orbs of Sorcery, leading to a question of whether to keep dumping AV on the stone or use it for other tests.

(I'm assuming this test having no visible rolls is because it was, at this point, basically impossible for there to be any other outcome. Mathilde is way too good at this kind of thing and has way too much experience with AV to not get this right.)

We definitely could have got here sooner, of course, but I doubt it would have been as simple as 'immediately dump some AV on a power stone.'
 
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DragonParadox said:
I think we should keep in mind he kinds of priceless treasures we are going to be putting in this library. There will be books in there on necromancy and vampires, magic books that could be misused, dwarf books that reveal parts of their society they do not want to share with most people. All in all I would rather those books be safe than having the maximum smiles coefficient. I mean just the magic books alone, who would you rather have guard those, random humans who might be tempted to do something silly or the spiders with no capacity for or interest in magic?
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I'm less interesting in hiring guards than I am helpers who will aid people in using the library to its full potential and see that as at least an equal priority to guarding the books. This isn't a primarily magical library of dark secrets. Huge sections of it will be perfectly mundane knowledge.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
About 180. 6 actions per turn over 30 turns (not including the turn we caught the snake).
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I meant AV research actions.
Rafin said:
We could save up to make two sets at the same time.
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That.., would take 75 College Favor. I really don't think we'll be getting that much any time soon.
Rafin said:
What about if Mathilde dies? Will Cython accept that some new mortal inherits her part of the partnership and becomes Cython's equal?
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Can they understand the concept of inheritance, or even just someone gifting another person Their possessions? Because if not, then sure that's a fair point, but otherwise Mathilde's part becomes her designated heir's part, and if Cython has an issue with not being that heir they can take it up with the various people who would defend Mathilde's right to designation. Which pretty much includes at least two Karaks at this point, if not the whole Karaz Ankor.

Note, I'm not being facetious. I'm actually unsure if a dragon would get inheritance or not, being not mortal. But if they do understand the concept they would probably respect Mathilde's right to decide who gets her stuff. After all, they would want to be able to do the same for their own stuff.
 
Ericwinter said:
…How many actions did it take to get here?
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Actions taken with AV up to today, in order and by Turn:
  • Turn 21: Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp.
  • Turn 25: Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
  • Turn 26: Investigate the exact circumstances required to induce a transformation.
  • Turn 27: Investigate how the Vitae reacts to Dwarven magic-dampening Runes.
  • Turn 28: Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmiths in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
  • Turn 36: Investigate how the Vitae reacts with Divine Magic.
  • Turn 38: Investigate how the Vitae reacts to a power stone.
The two remaining actions thus far are "Investigate how the Vitae reacts to being subjected to power stone creation methods" which has been crossed out because we don't know said methods, and "Instead of seeking the secrets of the blood, simply see if it can be weaponized in some way.", which was an option from the very start but has not yet been chosen (I would assume because it's easier to weaponize something if you already understand all the other things it can do).

Edit: And "Experiment with integrating the Vitae into enchantments.", which is likely to be interesting.

Mathilde only bought her Ulgu power stone by Turn 27, but the possibility of using a power stone was a crossed-out option the turn after that first action was taken - Turn 22.

That said, TimEd is right, no way we/Mathilde would have had the willingness to experiment on this without the Room of Calamity.
 
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[X] The We

Both because I love the idea of spider librarians, and because this will be good for the We's development. Having access to so many books and interacting with a bunch of people will result in great things.

Like, humans with their poor single threaded minds, limited lifespan, and two hands can become incredible polymaths and experts.
But an immortal spider hivemind? I see the potential for something world changing in the long term. A titanic intelligence on par with gods or high tier AI.

I wonder what adaptations the We will find for interacting with people. Maybe have spiders wearing different hats?
I am now distracted by the idea of the We wearing hats.
 
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[X] The We
Aranfan said:
Fundamentally I don't want to have Cython as librarian because this is Mathilde's book hoard, not Cython's and I don't want Cython to decide to fly off one day and take it with them.

The We I am less opposed to and mostly comes down to not wanting to force people to deal with arachnophobia when dealing with the library, but if its a question of spider librarians or giving our book hoard to Cython I will pick the giant spiders any day.
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This is part of my reason, too. Cython is cool and all, but giving away the book hoard to a dragon just because the dragon would look cooler owning all of your treasure than you would probably feel really bad to read about, even as a lurker.

Like, undeniably Cython would be practically and aesthetically amazing, but at what cost? At what cost?

Installing the We leaves the library ours. Staffed by a hive mind of giant spiders, yes. Potentially considered a body part a hive mind of giant spiders, yes. But still ours. The shadows and the spiders within them can coexist.

Staffing their libraries with giant spiders is what all Shadow wizards would do, if they could. Algard's Library is a wailing liminal space that draws unwary scholars lured by forbidden knowledge to their doom, and our library is and will be a dungeon inside a dwarven fortress inside a caldera in a mountain range on the edge of the civilized world infested with horrific monsters, and when everybody makes the bad jokes asking if the giant spiders are also the librarians we can dunk on them by saying yes.

And that won't impact its accessibility at all, because anyone willing to travel all the way to Karak Eight Peaks for b o o k isn't going to stay home because they heard that the shadow wizard who made the thing made sure it was well protected.
 
Parabola said:
Actions taken with AV up to today, in order and by Turn:
  • Turn 21: Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp.
  • Turn 25: Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
  • Turn 26: Investigate the exact circumstances required to induce a transformation.
  • Turn 27: Investigate how the Vitae reacts to Dwarven magic-dampening Runes.
  • Turn 28: Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmiths in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
  • Turn 36: Investigate how the Vitae reacts with Divine Magic.
  • Turn 38: Investigate how the Vitae reacts to a power stone.
The two remaining actions thus far are "Investigate how the Vitae reacts to being subjected to power stone creation methods" which has been crossed out because we don't know said methods, and "Instead of seeking the secrets of the blood, simply see if it can be weaponized in some way.", which was an option from the very start but has not yet been chosen (I would assume because it's easier to weaponize something if you already understand all the other things it can do).

Mathilde only bought her Ulgu power stone by Turn 27, but the possibility of using a power stone was a crossed-out option after that first action was taken - Turn 22.

That said, TimEd is right, no way we/Mathilde would have had the willingness to experiment on this without the Room of Calamity.
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there is also the enchantment action
 
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