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I really dislike the orphan option. They don't help the library in any single way. Every other option makes the library a little better in its own way, but not the orphans. The orphan option is for getting fanatical loyalty to Mathilde and honestly, what the hell are we gonna do with that? What's the point? Helping orphans is good but we asked Belegar for a library, not an orphanage.
 
[X] The We
Spider Librarians.

For the people worried about spending ton of AP training them.
I think that is unlikely, they will need training, but Belegar can hire people to do the brunt of the work, we might see more AP spent compared to Verenans and Scribes guild, but i would not expect it to be a large amount.
 
Of course, an important question is: do we want Cython to be able to recruit their own personal cult of dragon worshipping librarians? Because that sounds like the sort of thing that has consequences.
 
By the way Boney here are two questions:
  • Is there any way for us to replicate the warp snake trap and increase our vitae production that way? maybe even by providing traps for people which are bing haunted by the same kind of demon? or does that get to close to demonology to be safe/acceptable?

The chances of replicating the circumstances are extremely small and trying to do so will cause the Asps to start adapting and risks drawing Daemonic attention towards the one you already have.

  • Second is there a possibility that now we know that power orbs can be increased this way to use that knowledge to find other ways to do it than sacrificing our limited supply of vitae, like trough directing a stream of way-stone filtered single wind power into a cosponsoring stone? or does it explicitly need to be primal wind/mana/power?
  • Finaly what is the difference between primal wind/mana/power of one wind and normal wind/mana/power of the same wind?

Mathilde's theory is that the properties of the Winds in their moment of creation are different to their normal properties, which is what allowed them to join on to the strand of Wind in the power stone instead of forming new and discrete strands. To get more without Vitae you'd need to find or make some other place where Winds are created, such as by travelling to the north pole, opening a portal to the Warp, or summoning and capturing large amounts of Daemons.
 
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We've already dedicated the entire foundational principle of the Library to Order. It's going to be a very functional and searchable library regardless of which precise librarians we put in charge - and Cython is per WoB going to acquire a staff of their own regardless.
I am both capable of reading and willing to do it. I'm well aware that Cython will get a staff to manage the library. I have no idea why you're under the impression I was thinking he'd handle it entirely by himself. I wasn't arguing that he'd be the lone librarian, I was arguing that further defensiveness for a library built in a dwarf hold is pointless.

The cult of Verena isn't about spreading or sharing knowledge though, its about preserving it.
Are you saying that Boney was lying to us? Do you think he was playing a prank or something? For goodness sake, read the description of the Verena option before you judge it. I swear this peddling of falsehoods representing the exact opposite of truth is the most irritating thing.
 
I really dislike the orphan option. They don't help the library in any single way. Every other option makes the library a little better in its own way, but not the orphans. The orphan option is for getting fanatical loyalty to Mathilde and honestly, what the hell are we gonna do with that? What's the point? Helping orphans is good but we asked Belegar for a library, not an orphanage.

It's a good option for those who are concerned about the staff having divided loyalties. Locals can be bribed, Verenan's are loyal to their cult first, Cython would recruit those who are only loyal to themself personally, which all potentially could cause issues down the line.

The orphans, on the other hand, will be loyal to Mathilde first, and make them easier to manage and instruct.
 
[x] The We

I like Cython on the principle of being a dragon, but the We are cool, get too little screen time, and I think they're actually really well suited. They're curious, they're systematic and they consider losing a book akin to death. They're also long-lived, and so they'll reach some fantastic level of skill. It also contributes to making K8Ps into even more of a super weird place.

Also the current second choice, locals, does not include the We, even though they are locals. This is unfair and discriminatory against giant spiders. So if you want a true locals choice, you have to pick the We and then recruit some helpers from the locals later. Think of the Spiders!

EDIT: @Boney Can you please add the remaining actions taken this update from the turn to the vote header?
 
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[X] Locals
[X] Cult of Verena

Orphans would have been good too, but they brought to mind Varys' toungeless little birds and that really put me off of it.

I'm starting to get a bit stressed at how many Incredibly Important uses Vitae has. We only have one source of it, it produces very slowly, and we have no ways of meaningfully creating another source.

I think that should be our next direction of research, as finding new uses for it stops helping when you only have so much of it.
Fortunately, we picked what may well be the most relevant job for finding a new source of Vitae. I'm at least 40% convinced that the Waystones involve something like Vitae at some point of their job.
 
[X] Collegiate
Will be a boon to any magical research, and will allow the Library become a seamless part of the larger Collegiate ecosystem.
[X] Cult of Verena
Will ensure the goodwill of the wider Cult, and will make a Library dedicated to sharing truth and knowledge.
[X] Runescribes Guild
Guarantees the proper organization and maintenance of the Library.
[X] Halflings
Will be reliable, trustworthy, hardworking, and relatively incorruptible.
[X] Orphans
Will ensure staff that is fanatically loyal to you.
[X] Cython
Dragon Librarian.
[X] Locals

In summary, Plan First Person Singular (Vote for everything that doesn't induce arachnophobia).

No offense intended towards anyone who voted for the We. It's just that I don't think it would work out for the best, even if the We are fascinating as a concept.
 
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@Boney I there any chance at all that I can convince you to be overly generous and lenient by restructuring the vote so that Cython/We is a separate option in addition to one of the more mundane ones? Because neither of the two is what one would rightly call practical or sensible, but one of them is almost definitely going to win, to the point that all the merits of all the "normal" ones are completely overshadowed, or at least that's what I anticipate. And at the same time if one of the sensible options somehow does win because all the "no monsters" voters come together and narrowly win through approval voting then all the Cython/We fans will forevermore remember this day as the day where the Library "became boring". Even though before today the Library was just fine and that objectively wouldn't change. In other words this choice we have here is the most polarized OOC fun vs IC practicality votes yet. And that saddens me personally.

And yes, I get that I'm asking for the moon here. And that I am appealing to your emotions. I won't ask again if the answer is no and I'll definitely get over it. But I have to at least try.

Orbs of Sorcery are what the Colleges used to make stuff like the giant Hysh death-rays the Light College has.
Seeing how Teclis gave only one to each College, where does the Order of Light get additional ones from? Or is there canonically only a single death-ray machine?
Added a line about Orbs of Sorcery to the update:

A single one of them can allow for magical phenomena that would normally take an entire array of conventional power stones and be a lot easier to build around as well, and a socket for them can be found at the heart of the most potent and rarely-used Battle Altars of the Colleges.
Do we know what each (or any one) College is currently using their Orb of Sorcery for?
Technically speaking, nothing's stopping her. Practically speaking, a human-sized Orb would be such ludicrous overkill there wouldn't be a whole lot the Empire could possibly construct that would be able to make use of it. You'd essentially be making a wind-based nuclear explosive and asking people if they have anything that needs powering with the sun.
Make a Hysh one, study how to make it go boom widely (as opposed to ripping a hole in reality or whatever) and drop the resulting bomb in the Chaos Wastes?

The bigger risk is that we have no idea what the maximum size is. So if it for any reason is smaller than the size we are trying to go for then the resulting oopsie will be really bad.

And if we are creating eight oversized ones at the same time for efficiency instead of wasting 7/8ths of however much AV we need to play it safe, then said oopsie is eight times as big and made of Dhar. Third Polar Gate anyone?
Added a note regarding the workings of libraries:
- A note on libraries: The possessiveness of some potential recruits is not as much of a concern as you might think. in this era, most libraries only ever lend out books if they have multiple copies or to exceptionally trusted individuals. They don't work the same way as modern libraries, where almost everything is expected to go out the door on a regular basis.
That's definitely true, but we are hoping for this Library to last forever and Cython is immortal. So when the day comes where this Library would modernize into a modern Library, Cython might stand in the way of that.

Yes, I am being very optimistic here.
The time it takes for a Daemon's corpse to start disintegrating varies based on ambient magical energy. It might be a problem if he made a habit of not wiping his sword down after battles and let Daemon blood disintegrate on the stones.
I was thinking less problem and more that his sword is purposely built for Powerstone enlargement to be a useful side effect. The sockets around them would have to be able to expand and retract though.
They'd permanently lose Cityborn privileges by doing so. You might be able to find one or two individuals, but not enough to staff the whole library.
What about Faniour?
I really dislike the orphan option. They don't help the library in any single way. Every other option makes the library a little better in its own way, but not the orphans. The orphan option is for getting fanatical loyalty to Mathilde and honestly, what the hell are we gonna do with that? What's the point? Helping orphans is good but we asked Belegar for a library, not an orphanage.
They would help in that they would do whatever Mathilde thinks is best, without bringing their own baggage and convictions in.

But IMO that's both overly optimistic and short sighted thinking. A bunch of (Human?) orphans are not all guaranteed to be loyal, because they are still people with their own minds and dreams and stories. Also, what would happen after Mathilde's death? They would become an independent and self-perpetuating organization that could evolve in pretty much whatever direction over the centuries.
 
[X] Locals
Will more fully integrate the Library with the wider Karak, to the benefit of both.

Locals is my biggest preference here. Having everyone in the community working together to make a great library sounds good to me.

[X] Cython
Having a dragon also sounds pretty cool. Admittedly Cython would pretty much just be recruting from the local populace for general staff anyway, so in some ways it feels like Locals with extra prestige and the cost of having a partnership with a dragon.

[x] Cult of Verena
[x] Runescribes Guild
[X] Collegiate
All solid choices for librarians since they have experience.


My current idea is there'd be a 'use CF to do it and have the Orbs of Sorcery to do with as she will' option and a 'explain what the plan is to the Colleges, get them all to chip in a power stone, and then rewards (if it all goes according to plan) but no galaxy flex moment' option.
Making a set of orbs of sorcery seems like it would be a serious flex and also worth a lot of college favor. It's definitely going to get my vote when the option comes up. It also sounds like Mathilde should be able to go into favor debt or be able to leverage enough favor from colleagues to grab some power stones and then make and show off her orbs of sorcery.

Orbs of Sorcery are a Big Deal. When we reveal this to the Colleges the snake box is going to become an item of Strategic Importance. While Mathilde will be compensated handsomely for handing it over, she is going to hand it over.
It seems pretty unlikely that would happen. We already have precedent that the Colleges can't just take stuff from wizards in good standing (we saw this with the Skaven stuff). Also even if they could it wouldn't matter since Mathilde is a Lord Magister, even if the colleges did take stuff from wizards then she'd be one of the people doing the taking.
 
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I really dislike the orphan option. They don't help the library in any single way. Every other option makes the library a little better in its own way, but not the orphans. The orphan option is for getting fanatical loyalty to Mathilde and honestly, what the hell are we gonna do with that? What's the point? Helping orphans is good but we asked Belegar for a library, not an orphanage.
Security and not worrying about divided loyalties.
 
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