Ok so they tell the elector count of Norland what exactly? How do they formulate this in a way that is actionable from his PoV?
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Ok so they tell the elector count of Norland what exactly? How do they formulate this in a way that is actionable from his PoV?
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- Who knows?
Didn't Malekith made breaking the Vortex one of his big invasions goals? The thing that the Waystones send the "Bad Stuff" to? So in that respect it seems like the Druchii state is anti Waystone yes
Druichi magic tradition is well evil for lack of better word. A lot of it involves dhar, less dhar means they have a harder time. Now also ulthuan also had magic defenses that were powered by waystone. They can also use power from waystones easier. Now while the druichi can also use high magic they have less mages than Ulthuan.
Something to also consider is that after seeing what the dawi and elves had done human may become inspired to do something similar. Imagine magical defenses powered in part by waystones. I know it is dreaming but frankly Mathilde is starting to get to the more esoteric uses of magic.
Also the druichi are assholes and I see Maeklith just hating on them since he did try to bring down the vortex.
Arguably, a malfunctioning waystone system will contribute to the destabilisation of the nations opposed to the Druchii, and a working one could empower those same nations—but those are kinda abstract, and if the Druchii have the ability to sabotage the waystone project then they have the power to do much worse damage elsewhere.
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- Czech Republic
I know this is kinda late, but Panorath hinted to Mathilde that hedgewise might be useful when investigating the situation in Ostermark. So I doubt that Jades will have issue with them.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
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- Vermont
Malekith attacked it during the Sundering, the initial civil war, but that was more of a desperation play, the Drucchi have been vying for control of Ulthuan since then, not sinking it.
The Drucchi create Dhar from surrounding Winds, they don't rely on existing Dhar.
Codex
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It's more accurate to say that Malekith threw a temper tantrum that he didn't have the throne and got so mad he decided that if he wasn't going to be King of Ulthuan, then there shouldn't be an Ulthuan to rule in the first place.
He's calmed down a bit since then. He's still a manchild, but he doesn't plan on kicking the sandcastle anymore.
Why would they formulate anything beyond an inquiry whether Hedgewise presence in Laurelorn has the EC's approval? We've heard about the Nordland Ulricans being pressured to denounce Middenland, so I'm assuming there are more groups in this situation, and the Hedgewise are the perfect group to scapegoat as traitors to pressure reluctant parties into compliance.
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- Earth
Why would anyone in the know even do that? The Eonir aren't exactly on great terms with Nordland, and none of the other project participants have a burning urge to get the Hedgewise exterminated for whatever reason either.
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- Earth
The two currently leading plans are variants of each other that differ mainly on the Coin, so I'd like to bring up and reframe my take on the Gambler vs the Father.
In terms of effect on the Waystone Project, the choice between putting it on Father to recruit the Hedgewise this turn and putting it on Gambler for the Foundations is a choice between breadth and depth. Recruiting more broadens the potential pool of knowledge that we can draw from, while using the Gambler optimizes the take from our existing knowledge sources, making our integration efforts less likely to fail and more likely to crit.
Therefore, the question becomes which is better: being able to gain insights from one more group, or being better able to put everybody's insights together?
I'd argue that it's the latter, because we can still recruit the Hedgewise afterwards, so we don't lose out on their contributions in the long run if we optimize the foundation right now.
In terms of effect on the Waystone Project, the choice between putting it on Father to recruit the Hedgewise this turn and putting it on Gambler for the Foundations is a choice between breadth and depth. Recruiting more broadens the potential pool of knowledge that we can draw from, while using the Gambler optimizes the take from our existing knowledge sources, making our integration efforts less likely to fail and more likely to crit.
Therefore, the question becomes which is better: being able to gain insights from one more group, or being better able to put everybody's insights together?
I'd argue that it's the latter, because we can still recruit the Hedgewise afterwards, so we don't lose out on their contributions in the long run if we optimize the foundation right now.
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- A Pit Of My Own Making
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Question: if we recruit the Hedgewise on a turn with the Gambler, then interact with them on another turn with the Father... wouldn't that be better?
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- Earth
If the the Hedgewise worship a Daughter, then the Father would be immeasurably better, given the absolutish effects we've seen from the other faces. We strongly suspect that they do worship a Daughter, so that's why we want to confirm it one way or the other.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
If Haletha isn't a daughter, then the Hedgewise are almost certainly going to have a price.
If that price would cost an AP, then it'd definitely be less efficient by far.
Not only is there an opportunity cost to recruiting the Hedgewise ( the action this turn, depending on the plan you are preferring not using the Gambler on the foundations and whatever payment they might want to participate ) which we shouldn't underestimate, I'm not buying that adding more and more participants with differing mindsets, ideals and methods in which they study the mysteries of magic will just add positives to the project. At some point the knowledgebase of the already participating parties is broad and deep enough that the added tensions and disagreements that will spring up outweigh the benefits.
If we know with some certainty that we actually need their expertise that is a price we should be willing to pay, since the project would suffer otherwise, but until then I'm not convinced that their recruitment would be worth it or even beneficial in the first place.
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Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
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- Something Clever
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We are rather firmly aligned already with the political position that precisely nothing going on in Laurelorn requires EC approval, on account of it being sovereign territory of the Eonir. So I can't see this approach really making us any new enemies.
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- Outside the Box
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Thing is, I don't think it works that way. The Gambler isn't a generic +1 to anything bonus. It's best used for dangerous situations and risky endeavors. When we've used the Gambler on narrative actions that have little risk, we often see little, if any, effect. But when we use it on actions that have on-screen d100 rolls, that's when it can turn the tide. The ideal Gambler action is one where there will be exactly two d100 rolls.
Basically, the more of a gamble an action is, the more useful the Gambler side of the coin will be on that action.
The Laying the Foundations action, with 11 (or more) mages all working together over a long period of time to theorycraft, is just too divorced from an action that has only a few risky d100s for me to expect the Gambler to have more than a token effect on things, if one we notice at all.
Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
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- Plato´s cave.
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At least, I'd hope it's divorced from that kinda luckroll. That sounds like something that would come up while rolling for a miscast
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- Earth
Just because we don't see the bonus on screen like we do in our spellcrafting applications doesn't mean it didn't have an effect. The Gambler applied just as well when we recruited Thorek and the options we got from him. The Gambler applied to the Dragon Altar, in helping out the Amber Wizard acquire a Herdstone. The Gambler applied to finding Paranoth when we wanted to meet him. And I'm pretty sure Boney applies them in the places where they'd make the most effect, in either helping to meet a DC or breakthrough to a crit.
As for being a gamble, I remain convinced that this Project is thematically the greatest gamble we've taken so far:
"Strongly suspect" is a huge overstatement by the way. It's a low probability theory based on extremely thin evidence. The fact of the matter is, there are so many minor (and not so minor) female deities in the warhammer world that it's a blind shot in the dark. I'm giving high probabilities that the Father does nothing in this case, and part of why I don't like using the Father is that it is a complete crapshoot who we're targeting. Really I think we're going to have two or three failures in the Father and everybody will be so mad we've continually wasted a coin face that nobody wants to try it again.
I'd like to have some kind of in-character musing from Mathilde in a game post that some group is a potential Daughter-worshipper before I commit to using the Father. I really don't like doing so based on a few posters having read a bunch of game books and made guesses.
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There's this (bolding mine), which strongly suggests that in this quest at least some of the Hedgewise worship one of the daughters:
Codex
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I can guarantee that most people who make guesses about the Daughters are not in fact the ones that are reading game books. I know for a fact that the people most passionate about making those guesses are people who have gotten their information either from the story, from the thread discussion, or from fan wikis.
Most people in this thread don't read the books, and I'm not sure I would recommend reading them. It's a very mixed bag quality wise and a significant time investment besides.
Most people in this thread don't read the books, and I'm not sure I would recommend reading them. It's a very mixed bag quality wise and a significant time investment besides.
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- Earth
Adding on to that:
And Nordland Hedgewise worship Haletha. One group worships Ranald, one worships Haletha, and one worships a mystery. GIven that we can assume the Hedgewise to be at least distantly related to each other, and that the mystery group uses signs similar to the Ranaldian ones Mathilde is familiar with, the two groups of Hedgewise currently have the most evidence in their favour.
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- New Brunswick, NJ
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Boney has said that this isn't going to happen.
So our options are "guess without Mathilde holding our hand" or "never use the Father." I know there are some people who are okay with the second of those options, but I am not. Ranald told us about his family, and I expect that to be as interesting, in its own way, as fingerprinting gods to learn about who and what they are would have been.
(And besides, it's not just out of game guesses. IC research, as represented by our book purchases, plays a role. Based on the book we acquired from the Eonir, for instance, we dismissed Hekarti as a possibility even though previously she had been prominent in Daughter-theorizing.)
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- Netherlands
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I don't think Boney would give us an unsolvable mystery and then tell us to solve it. I also don't think "wait for Boney to tell us what the answer to the mystery might be" is going to be a viable way to solve the mystery.
And I, for one, find the theory highly convincing.