Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
The Golden Age Dwarfs knew as little about them as today's Runesmiths know about their work.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
We don't actually know what that does. It could be a way to gather Dwarfen souls (which is at least something it's been implied to do). The idea it'll let souls out from the Glittering Realm is entirely thread speculation.
I know this thread gets off on some esoteric WHF topics sometimes, but I'm honestly scratching my head a little why there's so much talk about the dwarven realm of the dead. It all seems like one of the least relevant things in the setting to the quest as it stands.
- Location
- USA
If the thread plans to have Mathilde raid the dwarven realm of the dead for the souls of past Runelords to help with the dwarven Runesmith guild, wouldn't it be important to know how the realm works?
13th Bee
Worker
- Location
- Tennessee, USA.
The thread has plenty of terrible ideas, yes.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
We'll put it on the whiteboard next to "assassinate the Horned Rat".
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
It's actually two steps before on The Master Plan.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Assuming the ashes in Elspeth's hourglass are legit, than maybe gods can die.
But I think killing a god would be easier than sneaking souls out past Gazul.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
It's where most of the runelore is.
No comment on the practicality of any discussion, but considering Thorek in the most recent update was motivated by the general loss of runelore, it's very relevant imo.
Also some fun ideas are spinning off this.
I was leaning towards "ask everyone involved very nicely", myself.
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Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Not really, we just need to kill Gazul and take his place.
NeonLights
Formerly Reliable_2IC
- Location
- In shambles
Dawri 🤝Necromancers
_ Tearing down the gates to the afterlife
_ Tearing down the gates to the afterlife
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Who said anything about sneaking? There's a reason it's part of the plan to kill the Horned Rat. Gazul can loan us a few willing souls for a bit to take down that Enemy of the Dawi.
Nah, what Mathilde should do is to strike a alliance of convenience with the Horned Rat to steal Dawi souls from Gazul, betray and double-cross the Horned Rat at the last minute when she reveals that she was working with Gazul all along to lure the Horned Rat into a trap, and then betray and triple-cross Gazul at the lastest last minute as she reveals that this was her 4D chess plan all along to usurp the position of God of the Dawi dead.
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
I think that plan qualifies as Plotter worship
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Too much Tzeentch, not enough Ranald. Call them both up for a pit fight with reasonable excuses, then sneak off with the Runelord souls we wanted while they're busy. Much simpler and easier. Maybe grab Qrech's soul and a couple baby Skaven while we're at it for the funsies.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@Boney I have a question about Qretch. In Mathilde's opinion, does he look like he's getting old and weak? Skaven natural lifespan is apparently around the 20s range without life extension, and he was already prominent before we picked him up 7 years ago. On the other hand, he seems to be healthier as he eats less, his environment is less stressful and he's no longer consuming warpstone. I don't think Mathilde can give an accurate estimate, but I just want to know if we have to worry about him passing away soon.
It's hard to tell, his lifestyle is fairly slow-paced already and his automatic reaction to feeling weaker would be to conceal it.
- Location
- Washington
I've gotta point out that this is really not necessarily true in fantasy. Sometimes they go back to that well but in fantasy just as often Order is actively on the upswing. Fantasy often has an undercurrent where the question isn't "how long can they hold out" but rather "will they have built up enough of the products of this new age like Cannons and Wizards when the next crisis happens?"
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Completely random topic change:
It occurs to me that city elves who are part of the army must get an exemption from the "must live in the walls" rules for the period in which their orders send them against some threat. Mostly in guessing this has happened in large musters in the past.
But we also know that there's a lot of frustrated energy confined to the city, where I think the irrevocable nature of leaving probably tends to really discourage travel or sightseeing or anything like that. If they could leave for a decade or two and see the world before they came back and could pick up again where they left off, I think a ton of them would jump for it.
So I think the situation here is for small bands of elves, in the 30-60 range, to be formally organized by the army and sent to reinforce, say, middenheim's border patrols in an exchange for middenheim giving Laurelorn a few human soldiers to put right up against nordland and keep them from trying anything.
It gives the Laurelorn city elves a way to go wander the empire for a few years doing good deeds and see the world, basically. It gives Laurelorn a bit of a safety valve way of lessening pressure in the city, and ironically it puts the city elves out as a front line in front of the forest elves. Fighting to keep threats away from the forest to begin with might go a ways towards defusing tension with the wards.
Plus it gives a TON more person to person contacts for the elves and humans both, without exposing Laurelorn to trade caravans or visitors: the isolationists get to keep their isolation, the opener ones get their chance to make human friends and allies and bring in new things that strengthen the elves.
Best of all, I think this can be sold through Johann to the champion, and Mathilde to the vicereine and Prince we met. The champion would see the martial advantages of having more depth for defense and a way of renewing alliances with the mayflies, would take it to the queen. She would see the advantages of having a pressure valve for restless troublemakers in the city, without it looking like she was expelling them, and the political advantage with the forest born...
And we can potentially get an awesome unit of elf warriors as our kickass-if-less-than-before replacement for hammerer squad.
It occurs to me that city elves who are part of the army must get an exemption from the "must live in the walls" rules for the period in which their orders send them against some threat. Mostly in guessing this has happened in large musters in the past.
But we also know that there's a lot of frustrated energy confined to the city, where I think the irrevocable nature of leaving probably tends to really discourage travel or sightseeing or anything like that. If they could leave for a decade or two and see the world before they came back and could pick up again where they left off, I think a ton of them would jump for it.
So I think the situation here is for small bands of elves, in the 30-60 range, to be formally organized by the army and sent to reinforce, say, middenheim's border patrols in an exchange for middenheim giving Laurelorn a few human soldiers to put right up against nordland and keep them from trying anything.
It gives the Laurelorn city elves a way to go wander the empire for a few years doing good deeds and see the world, basically. It gives Laurelorn a bit of a safety valve way of lessening pressure in the city, and ironically it puts the city elves out as a front line in front of the forest elves. Fighting to keep threats away from the forest to begin with might go a ways towards defusing tension with the wards.
Plus it gives a TON more person to person contacts for the elves and humans both, without exposing Laurelorn to trade caravans or visitors: the isolationists get to keep their isolation, the opener ones get their chance to make human friends and allies and bring in new things that strengthen the elves.
Best of all, I think this can be sold through Johann to the champion, and Mathilde to the vicereine and Prince we met. The champion would see the martial advantages of having more depth for defense and a way of renewing alliances with the mayflies, would take it to the queen. She would see the advantages of having a pressure valve for restless troublemakers in the city, without it looking like she was expelling them, and the political advantage with the forest born...
And we can potentially get an awesome unit of elf warriors as our kickass-if-less-than-before replacement for hammerer squad.
Yeah, as much as GW couldn't help but stuff Swords of Damocles into the lore at every opportunity, the canonical 2500s of Warhammer Fantasy is a renaissance. Karl Franz and Louen Leoncoeur and Katarin Bokha are all great rulers willing and able to step up to the challenges of the world, and Thorgrim Grudgebearer and Finubar the Seafarer weren't exactly punching the clock and waiting for doom to take them either. It's a time of heroes and marvels, and evil needed a mulligan to win.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Even discounting just the leaders, I'm going through the books and there are constant signs of hope everywhere. Grand Theogonist Volkmar the Grim is probably one of the better theogonists in the history of the Cult of Sigmar, focused on finding ways to defeat evil rather than getting bogged down in amassing political influence. Luthor Huss, the "Prophet of Sigmar" wanders the Empire after being disgusted by the corrupt administration of the church rallying against the corrupt politicians and pushing the populace to face off against their enemies. The Colleges of Magic grow more powerful and influential under the leadership of perhaps one of the more talented Supreme Patriarchs they've ever had, cooperating with the wise rule of an exceptionally intelligent Emperor.
The Elves have some of their strongest heroes in a while. Tyrion and Teclis are essentially Aenarion and Caledor reborn, the two defeating a Greater Daemon while they were still teenagers by elf standards, and by the time he was an adult Teclis sent Malekith to the Shadow Realm. Sea Lord Aislinn and King Byrnnoth briefly cooperated with each other to fight a common enemy, and while they separated with Byrnnoth bitter over all the unintentional insults no grudges were declared. Aliathra the Ever Child was sent to negotiate with the Dwarfs as an ambassador and the Dwarfs marched to save her, freeing the Elven host who came to rescue her from Mannfred's host. Even when Tyrion performed grave insult by blaming them for not saving Aliathra from being kidnapped again, Thorgrim refused to declare a grudge even when his subordinates questioned him on it.
From what I'm seeing, the writers at GW are indeed obsessed with shoving hopelessness and the "end of days" themes as things decline from the "good old days", but they're equally obsessed with making the current era a time of heroes and great change where things look like they're getting better, because clearly they need to sell models for the heroes and they can't do that if they're pathetic and weak.
- Location
- Australia
I don't think this'll happen. Creating such a valve means way less demand for homes and work spaces within the city itself, which means less wealth and influence for the nobles who control the city and the buildings people have to rent out. Their continued level of power relies on the status quo remaining unchanged, and as a result, I reckon they'll fight pretty hard against any attempts to change it.
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Agreed. I mean if the nobles were minded to do so they could have tried to rebuild one of the other cities some time in the last three thousand years. That they did not is a pretty solid sign that the overcrowding is desirable to the people on top. That said as Laurelorn becomes more connected to the wider world i think the system might collapse on its own. There is now a source of wealth and thus power that does not hing on making nice with the cityborn, trade with the humans.