How the hell do you propose to convince a hoary old dwarf of the most hoary and old dwarf guild, cult and clan to fundamentally change their entire approach to their craft? Stonebread cookies? Unless you assume that all of them are going to turn slayer from this, some runesmiths with lesser knowledge passing things on is better than none. All runesmiths passing on their lore is a thing of such surpassing optimism that you might as well call for an alliance with Ulthuan.
For refernce see: High King changing his mind. So we know it's possible. A new age is dawning for the dwarves. Why would they pass on secrets if the Karaks are dying? But now, a new time comes. But if they go slayer, say goodbye.
It will not be for the good of the people he will shoot in the head, but it can be very strongly argued that it will be for the good of the people left behind. At the end of the day the Guild of Runesmiths needs reform, I do not think this is a contentious argument. They are after al a dying breed and they are becoming irrelevant to the dwarf way of life.
Runesmiths are I would judge only about as useful for the Karaz Ankor as the Colleges are to the Empire. If every single runesmith in existence came down with the galloping Nurgle shits and died it would be a blow, but it would not spell their end. They would still have canons, They would still have gyrocopters and steam, they would survive.
That is what Thorek is fighting against, he is not the scheming politician trying to get ahead, he is a artisan and a priest staring at the obsolescence of his whole craft and trying to save what he can.
Saying runelords are going obsolete is not factual. Try again. For factual references see: all Runes and all the respect their dawi get.
As for dying: You do not stop a people from dying by killing members of said people, espetially in a low pop situation. This should be obvious.
To be honest, I'm not convinced the runesmiths are going to go slayer. Thorek is giving them an ultimatum—they are failing their ancestors and must change to be better.
When High King Thorgrim was confronted with the same realisation, he didn't go slayer—he changed for the better. And I suspect many Runesmiths will follow both the High King and Runelord Thorek in changing as well. This is a good thing, and I'm not sure why people are claiming that this is going to be disaster.
You think he hasn't been trying? Thorek is immensely politically active.
Making the point of how wrong the elders who say "Don't share your secrets, don't try to advance runecraft, don't change anything" were when it came to Karag Dum is yet another way to try and get the younger runelords who're only 300 years old to change their ways. Because at the moment they're doing what dwarves tend to do: copying their elders. Only if those elders are forced to admit to an error will those who worship them change their approach.
I don't think they'll actually go slayer over this, it'll just be a big political shakeup, but by all means explain your plan to convince the most conservative members of the most conservative society of the most conservative race on the planet to change their most deeply held traditions and literal religious obligations to something that won't see that knowledge lost in the long run, with less fallout, and I will gladly switch my vote.
Two things here: There is a conflation of facts going on. Runelords who keep their secrets and Runelords who did not belive Dum is a crossover event. But it's coorelation, not causation. Convincing said runelords that they were wrong about Dum does nothing about getting them to share. That's not how runes work.
Runes are shared with the worthy. The wider Karaz Ankor, High Kings included, decided not to belive in Dum. That's the kind of preparation that was needed. The Runelords bare some resposibility for this, but hardly all of it. That mostly lies with the High King of the time who decided other matters were more importat, as it was his decision.
Second, even if the Runelords had belived, they would not have taught more people about more runes. Just sent more of the runes they made anyway the way of Dum, or struck more anti-chaos runes/weapons. So the two issues, the "did not belive dum" and "hoarding runes" are not connected issues, except in the persons that carry them.
If Thorek really wants to blame someone, blame the High King of the time.
Second, on making Runelords go Slayer, if Thorek has his way it is inevitable for quite a few. Qoute:
"You understand that every word of this is to go no further than yourself," Thorek says gravely. "These are not Guild secrets exactly, so you would not be Grudged, but you would still earn the enmity of the Guild if you spread what I am about to tell you."
You nod. "I understand."
"Very well." Thorek sighs. "The leaders of the Runesmiths Guild of Karag Dum call themselves 'Runemasters'."
You contemplate that as you look at Thorek's grave expression. "That's it?"
"'Runelord' is the title Thungni bestowed upon the son that succeeded Him when He departed," he explains patiently. "Those that oppose Karag Dum's Runesmiths say that to declare that insufficient is to say that they have reached heights that one taught by Thungni Himself could not reach."
"So it's something of a religious schism."
"And a Clan feud, and a Guild dispute. That is the foundation of the conflict, but not the climax of it. In the Runesmith Conclave of 6769, the last that Karag Dum attended, they announced that Chaos was waxing and that all efforts needed to be spent preparing to withstand it. This was taken poorly, seen as an attempt for Karag Dum to increase their status. Karag Dum has always been focused entirely on the threat of Chaos and has always called for more efforts spent to oppose it, so this was seen as their usual rhetoric, only more so."
You make the mental conversion to the Imperial Calendar - 2246 - and you're pretty sure you know where this is going. "But it wasn't. They were right."
Thorek sighs. "It is easy to see that now. But from what I've been told - and it seems to be true - that century was a tumultuous time in the Old World. High King Alrik had died in battle at the Battle of Black Falls, Bretonnia was tearing itself apart over succession, humans marched on Nehekhara time and time again and agitated the Tomb Kings into a great deal of activity beyond their borders. Worst of all, at the time of the Conclave Ulthuan's forces were on the march in the Old World. In the face of all that, it seemed very self-serving for Karag Dum to announce that it was Chaos that was the real threat. A great deal was said in hot blood, every word of it recorded for posterity."
"What were the Elves doing?"
"Pursuing the Beastman demigod Cor-Dum, but that was not known at the time. The Phoenix King Finubar was still new to the throne, and many Dwarves suspected the worst when his forces made landfall in the Old World."
"So when the Great War Against Chaos proved Karag Dum right..."
"Influential and ambitious Runelords had their words against Karag Dum indelibly recorded. If they had taken the warnings seriously, and fifty years had been spent exerting all effort of the Karaz Ankor to prepare against the coming storm..." Thorek shrugs. "Perhaps the High King would not have fallen. Perhaps Karak Vlag and Karag Dum would not have been lost. Perhaps the Norse Dwarves would not have fallen. Perhaps the Silver Age would not have ended. Anyone that accepted that burden upon their shoulders would have no choice but to shave their head and seek their Doom. But they have not. I did not ask why not, but they answered the unasked question anyway, and what they gave me was not justification, but accusation."
You think back to all the dark warnings you've heard about Karag Dum. "Argumentum ad, er, Dawinem. You can't be blamed for ignoring a warning if the messenger could not be trusted."
Thorek nods. "In my recent travels, I've heard a lot of accusations levelled at Karag Dum. Unstable. Unreliable. Undwarflike. Spent too long too close to Chaos, closer even than the Fire Dwarves were when they fell. Karak Kadrin was once brother to Karag Dum - the former dedicated to Grimnir the Slayer, the latter to Grimnir the Foe of Chaos - but all but the eldest there now half-believe this new truth." He sighs and scratches at his beard, and for a moment he seems very tired. "I don't know any of this for sure, or I'd already be levelling accusations and tearing the Guild asunder. But what I do know indicates that that's how it stands."
I've bolded the relevant part near the end.
At it's core, Thorek is asking Mat to testify that with his last breath Borek meant to tell that said burden was their fault. Since shew as the one who heard his last words and she'd be trusted to interpret them as the only one who saw him speak them/heard the tone.
But that's not what he meant at all. He didn't blame the Karaz Ankor, or the Runelords. He was sad, and disappointed, and resigned and apologetic. His words were:
As the demigod bellows once more but shows no sign of approaching, you risk a glance sideways at Borek, who'd become more and more glued to the prow as you grew nearer to his home. You're not sure what you expect - shock? disbelief? despair? But you definitely weren't expecting resignation. "Borek-"
"We did the best we could," he says. "When it comes time to tell the rest of the Karaz Ankor what has become of us, please tell them that as well. May the Ancestors forgive us."
With that, he pulls loose a knot that causes a rope ladder to unfurl and clambers over the guardrail. "Borek?" you ask, trying to process this as the first of the other Dwarves start to spill out of the lower levels, seeking a better view than they could get from what would have to be very crowded gun-ports.
I don't think Mat should twist a resigned dwarves last words into a dagger to turn other dwarves Slayer.
Just don't. He didn't say it like that, didn't mean it like that.
He wasn't angry at the other dwarves for forcing them to use this final option. He was resigned. In his own judgement, it was Dum's own fault. Unheard warnings and all. Even if in his judgement, it was their fault for not being persuasive enough at said aforementioned runelords conclave, it doesn't matter.
It's a bad lie for a bad cause, just as Mat has reached a point where she's to be treated and trusted as dwarf. Don't abuse it. Don't use it to kill dwarves. There's few enough of them around anyway.
I don't understand how so many are alright with killing runelords when they are so hellishly difficult to replace. Or why people keep arguing that Thorek's way to reform the Runesmiths guild is the right one. Is it giving up? Desperation? Do people honestly think that if in a few decades the dwarven trajectory starts trending upwards again, the runelords won't join in as well?
)... would we be implanting it this turn, or would we have to wait until next turn? Has this already been answered by Boney?
