Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Aotearoa
I think I'd quite like to read how Mathilde might weave tighter ties between the Colleges with
[x] DIPLO: Collegiate
[x] DIPLO: Mentor
Also makes sense to codify what we've been doing and doing well for almost a decade.
[x] LESSON: Leader
Thrice is enemy action?
Abelhelm- loss of faith in the Sigmarite church, falls, fall of command to us.
Belegar- loss of faith in the High King and Traditional Ways, misses the culmination of his Clans three thousand year dream.
Borek- loss of faith in Karnak Dums honour, took a walkabout in the Wastes.
[x] LESSON: Theologian
Interesting. Also not Dhar.
[x] DIPLO: Collegiate
[x] DIPLO: Mentor
Also makes sense to codify what we've been doing and doing well for almost a decade.
[x] LESSON: Leader
Thrice is enemy action?
Abelhelm- loss of faith in the Sigmarite church, falls, fall of command to us.
Belegar- loss of faith in the High King and Traditional Ways, misses the culmination of his Clans three thousand year dream.
Borek- loss of faith in Karnak Dums honour, took a walkabout in the Wastes.
[x] LESSON: Theologian
Interesting. Also not Dhar.
- Location
- Singapore
One could argue though that if Mathilde is heavily Dawi influenced, that the College is the guild Mathilde ultimately belongs to, the closest analogy being Runesmiths belonging to the Cult of Thungni, bound to her guild by law and oaths (both of which a Dawinized Mathilde would treat very seriously). It would be amiss if Mathilde does not make efforts to understand how to navigate the politics of her guild better, as a newly minted Master, from that perspective. There is no avoiding the colleges in the long run, Mathilde is beyond the point she could hold the College at a certain distance from her daily life. So I don't think Collegiate is necessarily incompatible with a very heavily Dawi influenced Mathilde.
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NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] LESSON: Dhar Insight
[X] DIPLO: Collegiate
Both are good but I find other Wizards more interesting than a vague "people who speak other languages". And we can still learn the languages that are truly important by dedicating AP while it's likely impossible to get the benefits of Collegiate other than by picking the trait.
[X] DIPLO: Collegiate
Both are good but I find other Wizards more interesting than a vague "people who speak other languages". And we can still learn the languages that are truly important by dedicating AP while it's likely impossible to get the benefits of Collegiate other than by picking the trait.
Khepri14
Thus kindly I scatter...
- Location
- Following the wind
[X] DIPLO: Interfaith Dialogue
Ranald isn't the most accepted of Gods, but you're growing adept at finding common ground with the other faiths of the Old World.
[X] LESSON: Mystic
Some mysteries should be embraced, rather than unravelled. You might not fully understand the Gods this way, but you are much more likely to get along with Them.
[X] LESSON: Syncretic
Ranald will likely always be your primary God, but you are branching out into a healthy and respectful understanding of some of the other Gods of the Old World, both human and Dwarven.
[X] LESSON: Theologian
You have a breadth of experience with the Divine that would put many Priests to shame, and are starting to build tentative overarching theories of the Divine that many might consider heretical.
I chose these because I am rather interested in furthering our friend's cause for 2 reasons. 1) The more we further his goals, the more he can do down the line well after Mathilde is gone. 2) The more we further his goals, the more in debt to us he is and I really want him to owe us so damn hard if/when Mathilde dies. Not many of the Ranaldian faith could say that's a legitimate possibility for them.
Also, anything else I might want is already winning.
Ranald isn't the most accepted of Gods, but you're growing adept at finding common ground with the other faiths of the Old World.
[X] LESSON: Mystic
Some mysteries should be embraced, rather than unravelled. You might not fully understand the Gods this way, but you are much more likely to get along with Them.
[X] LESSON: Syncretic
Ranald will likely always be your primary God, but you are branching out into a healthy and respectful understanding of some of the other Gods of the Old World, both human and Dwarven.
[X] LESSON: Theologian
You have a breadth of experience with the Divine that would put many Priests to shame, and are starting to build tentative overarching theories of the Divine that many might consider heretical.
I chose these because I am rather interested in furthering our friend's cause for 2 reasons. 1) The more we further his goals, the more he can do down the line well after Mathilde is gone. 2) The more we further his goals, the more in debt to us he is and I really want him to owe us so damn hard if/when Mathilde dies. Not many of the Ranaldian faith could say that's a legitimate possibility for them.
Also, anything else I might want is already winning.
I object to the characterisation of Necromancy as innately "evil".
Necromancy is just a tool. You don't call a hammer "evil" if it's used by a murderer to bash in someone's head. It's the murderer who is evil, not the hammer.
Good people who obtain more power have more capacity to do greater good. Mathilde is a good person and Necromancy will give her more power, which she can use to perform more good deeds. She's also the very person who's clever enough and strong-willed enough to avoid any so-called "temptations" or "corruption" of Necromancy.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Well, no, if she didn't have the belt she'd fall just like anyone else.
It's perfectly possible to enter Necromancy with good intentions. I think many do.
But the usage of magic influences the people who use it. Light Wizards become more like stereotypical Light Wizards. Grey Wizards the same.
The stereotypical Dhar user is megalomaniacal and ruthless in the extreme. And it's not like that's just humans, it's the same for Drucchi sorceresses.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
You could take this post, word for word, and have an actual necromancer say it in-universe. It would not sound out of place in the slightest.
Seriously, Dhar does corrupt, in ways both visible and not. And every single necromancer after Nagash ended up going crazy. And Nagash was arguably crazy before he even started using Dhar.
counter: in this setting, Necromancy runs on Dhar,
and Dhar is magic cocaine.
don't, not once!
Khepri14
Thus kindly I scatter...
- Location
- Following the wind
Tbf, I'm pretty sure they start out that way even before Dhar. Dhar just turns that arrogance up anywhere from "several notches" to "so high it breaks the dial."
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
When your ambitions start at "murder and then resurrect everyone in the kingdom so I may rule over them for eternity as an undead god-king" most people would drop the 'arguably'.
I understand the theory and even agree with it but this is the Warhammer universe. Messing with Dhar has consistently driven even the most talented mad. To concern yourself with being corrupted by practicing necromancy isn't petty moralizing it's a legitimate fear of the observed consequences.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I mean, he worked his way up to that.
(And ingested a whole mess of Warpstone in-between)
I think at the start he mostly just wanted to live forever (and, well, take back what he saw as his birthright from his younger brother).
- Location
- Earth
I'm not sure that the uniqueness is one-way like that.
I don't think Polyglot is just a tool for learning languages with less AP, in the same way that Collegiate isn't just a tool for managing wizards with less AP. I think Polyglot has more potential not only in individual languages, but the relationships between them, and that would be very useful in putting things together when your practitioners all cast in different magical languages.
I actually went back and reread the section in question (where she's talking to Belegar about the anouncement) and this is a mischaracterization. Mathilde's thoughts on being a dwarf aren't really expounded on. What she finds mildly distasteful - though not enough to warrant more than a single exchange with Belegar, so she doesn't seem too offended - is the idea that the Karaz Ankor has declared her a dwarf because the more traditional dwarves can't accept a member of another race doing them such a huge service.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Dhar is an inherently corruptive force and every attempt to turn it to good ends has resulted in the slow disintegration of the user's mind and personality.
Granted, we have a better shot than most, because we have the belt of Fuck Dhar. But Valaya might withdraw her protection if we go down that route; Boney has been deliberately cagey about the degree to which the Ancestor Gods can exercise control over their Runes. Even if she can't or doesn't, it's still probably not healthy to have Dhar turned into fire while it is inside your brain as a result of a cast. Boney famously once said:
That said, I'd still do it, if circumstances were dire enough. Like, "the Skaven invade and sack K8P" levels of dire and attendant "people Mathilde cares about are all dead." That's the sort of scenario where going full Dark Lady would be warranted; it would undoubtedly end tragically, but if in exchange we can raze Skavenblight to the -- okay, it's already underground, but the more deeper ground, I'd be satisfied with that tragic arc. But I'm not gonna sanction knowingly and flagrantly breaching Article Seven and tempting fate for things less than that.
Granted, we have a better shot than most, because we have the belt of Fuck Dhar. But Valaya might withdraw her protection if we go down that route; Boney has been deliberately cagey about the degree to which the Ancestor Gods can exercise control over their Runes. Even if she can't or doesn't, it's still probably not healthy to have Dhar turned into fire while it is inside your brain as a result of a cast. Boney famously once said:
and expounded on that with:
So even Mathilde in the best-case scenario of "the belt keeps working" is probably not totally fine 100% forever.
That said, I'd still do it, if circumstances were dire enough. Like, "the Skaven invade and sack K8P" levels of dire and attendant "people Mathilde cares about are all dead." That's the sort of scenario where going full Dark Lady would be warranted; it would undoubtedly end tragically, but if in exchange we can raze Skavenblight to the -- okay, it's already underground, but the more deeper ground, I'd be satisfied with that tragic arc. But I'm not gonna sanction knowingly and flagrantly breaching Article Seven and tempting fate for things less than that.
It's also not a trait of "accepting the proclamation of the Conclave" and I am confused at that characterization by some posters; that's not anywhere in the text. It's a trait of "you've been living in this culture for a long time and can navigate it like a native." My dad isn't American-born and would grumble at people erasing his origin, but he's fluent in American culture even when it is wildly different from the culture of his birth and the first nearly-thirty years of his life.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Dhar can be used for good as Van Hal demonstrated but only for a limited time that ends when it either turns you evil or deludes you into thinking evil actions are justified. With Dhar you quite literally die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
This is also a point I wanted to make and couldn't figure out how to articulate, so I stuck to the rebuttal of the surface claim, but thank you. Taking the Dawri option is Mathilde becoming a dwarf, it's her further expanding on her existing attachment to dwarf culture. If people don't like that, that's perfectly fine, but please don't change the meaning to something more exaggerated
For my part, I find I lean towards not liking the Dawri trait at all. Mathilde has gotten a lot of benefit out of being able and willing to come at things in a non-dwarfy way, and at some point navigating through Dwarven culture like a native means getting tripped up on the same cultural blind spots a native would.
It's possible that Dawri wouldn't bump Mathilde over that line*, but the general point remains that I think Mathilde would be far more effective when being something of a juxtaposition between a cultural insider and a cultural outsider than by being just one or the other - besides, Ulgu thrives on that sort of boundary or liminal space so it's arguable that not picking Dawri is also being true to Mathilde's character as a creature of Ulgu.
*The exact wording was 'able to do X' rather than 'will do X', so there may be more room for flexibility than I'm reading out of it.
It's possible that Dawri wouldn't bump Mathilde over that line*, but the general point remains that I think Mathilde would be far more effective when being something of a juxtaposition between a cultural insider and a cultural outsider than by being just one or the other - besides, Ulgu thrives on that sort of boundary or liminal space so it's arguable that not picking Dawri is also being true to Mathilde's character as a creature of Ulgu.
*The exact wording was 'able to do X' rather than 'will do X', so there may be more room for flexibility than I'm reading out of it.
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- Location
- Earth
Being able to understand a new culture does not mean you forget about your old cultures, and in any case, all of Mathilde's actions still have a primary influence from the Grey College, dwarf affinity included.
- Location
- Canada
So far as I'm concerned (beyond my compulsive habit of voting to collect Necromantic literature), if Mathilde actually ended up using Necromancy or dark magic and corrupted her soul with Dhar, an interesting character direction and coping mechanism I would like to explore is to see her own way of, essentially, going Slayer.
Pack up our projects and activities in civilized territory. Jump off the deep end as far as we can, and ram the biggest or most tenacious threat to civilization like a magical apocalypse. Become the equivalent of an Everchosen, or a Nagash, or a Warboss, but let's see the entrenched villains try to deal with it this time instead.
Burn Skavenblight to the ground, or Uzkalak, or the Silver Pinnacle. We may die, but at least we'll strike a greater blow than perhaps ever before, and as a slippery individual we have the skills to avoid death after any defeats long enough to make sure our strike sticks.
And if we live? I'd be happy to see what we take on next.
Pack up our projects and activities in civilized territory. Jump off the deep end as far as we can, and ram the biggest or most tenacious threat to civilization like a magical apocalypse. Become the equivalent of an Everchosen, or a Nagash, or a Warboss, but let's see the entrenched villains try to deal with it this time instead.
Burn Skavenblight to the ground, or Uzkalak, or the Silver Pinnacle. We may die, but at least we'll strike a greater blow than perhaps ever before, and as a slippery individual we have the skills to avoid death after any defeats long enough to make sure our strike sticks.
And if we live? I'd be happy to see what we take on next.
13th Bee
Worker
- Location
- Tennessee, USA.
Yeah, please don't actively try to get a probable bad end.