As a knight would Reinhardt be more accustomed to heavy plate or half plate?

I'm drawing a blank on Reinhardt's martial talents. Magnus has an extensive martial experience thanks to the family combat spars and his own training time. Can we expect Reinhardt to be as skilled a fighter in any condition as Magnus?
Probably both knowing how crazy in martial training the Trident is. But from the few spinets that i remember hes a Calvary man, but can fight on the ground.
Think it goes like this
Magnus-> Martial Training yes
Mena-> more skimishing, light calvalry, and patrols, and Fighting
Rienhardt-> A Knight Chapter trained (means cavalry rmember our Bull Warrior are wierd for being non-cavalry) so heavy cavelry and probably dismounted knights
 
"Is how it's always been, eh? Hasn't been a King or Queen in generations," Mardudd sniffed dismissively. "Last one was Boudicca. Rallied all the tribes together, one big push, eh?"
Abject failure my ass. Albion Boudicca pushed back the Fimir from across the entire island, shattered dozens of their castles, rallied all of the clans together, and killed a whole lot of Fimir at the foundation of their city before the Dirachs and Meargh, including managing to rally some of the Giants out of the Causeway, and then because she was such a rallying point got targeted by multiple Fimir spellcasters. It'd be the same thing if Sigmar happened to die at the Battle of Black Fire Pass, or Gilles fell at the final one of his Twelve Battles. She happened to go down at the very end, and the Fimir rallied while the Albionese broke - as many races on the planet do when the big charismatic leader goes down or worse is forcibly turned into a Chaos Spawn. That doesn't make her an 'abject failure at killing shit'. She killed plenty. IRL Boudicca's forces also got their shit pushed in in their big final climactic battle too, despite doing well up until that point, because the lower number but still dangerous and heavily armored and disciplined enemy rallied. Or, in the case of Albion, heavily armored monsters who are fanatically dedicated to Chaos. And sure, IRL Boudicca poisoned herself rather than be captured. Albion Boudicca didn't get that luxury because she was literally in the middle of the city fighting until the very unfortunate end part when multiple Fimm struck her in the battle and shattered her body but unluckily left her alive enough to be dragged in front of the Fimir and turned into a Chaos Spawn.
Man, that does sound like a tragic story.

The only saving grace I can think of is that this happened a long time ago, before starting time of quest, and hopefully that means she wasn't one of the GM's early background NPCs that met her terrible fate due to bad rolls near the end of her 'questline', just something that was predetermined history.

Either way, wouldn't be against helping Albionese wipe out fimir city and maybe help support a new potential unifying leader if they come up.
 
I know, I read. That's my point I want Magnus and Reinhardt to assault the elites while Mena commands the Empire's forces

Now I'm confused. Why are you using the unreliability of magic weapons argument against marlin then? He's saying that Reinhart doesn't have the oomph needed to kill elite Fimir like Magnus does with his runefang and yet:
we were gonna send one heir, it should be him
?
You didn't even really argue why Reinhart should be sent with Magnus. Just why Mena shouldn't be.

Reinhart would probably get absolutely destroyed if he goes alone. He doesn't have any great experience against fimir (like the warriors and druids) nor does he have an immensely powerful artifact that would let him cheat through the endeavor (like Magnus). I personally think he would do more good fighting in the castle battle, where he could leverage his leadership skills than he would as basically another Greatsword in the elite battle.

remember, while Magnus is better at leading troops, neither of the other two are bad commanders either and together they would probably be able to compensate for his absence. However pure martial and killing power wise Reinhart is hampered heavily by his lack of a powerful weapon and Mena is too risky. Since he's a good commander but only a decent combatant (again, because of a lack of stopping power), he's better allocated to the castle battle.
 
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Honestly, the group could benefit from 33 martial specialist. The invading one i mean.

But Mena and interprovince Relations kinda need us to stay together and Mena should not go inside the stones with her gauntlet. So like, lets stay together and draw their attention? The cap knows how to do infiltration, and the formations need people that can actually cut through these ridiculously oversized plates.
 
I really don't understand why people are just assuming Reinhardt is some wimp. He is the son of Ortrud, he is the leader of a chapter of knights, he is an heir to Ostermark. Is it literally only because he doesn't have a magic weapon? That's the difference?

Now I'm confused. Why are you using the unreliability of magic weapons argument against marlin then?

I'm arguing against the consensus of the thread but what Marlin was saying was - because Reinhardt has no magic weapon he can't be sent. Really, it's becasue he doesn't have one that he can, and because Mena does have an enchanted weapon she can't. Reread the update - point is, Mena's weapons are to volatile for the mission.

You didn't even really argue why Reinhart should be sent with Magnus.

I'm pretty sure I did explain, but I guess I'm assuming Reinhardt is not some scrub, and others are assuming he is because he's got no magic weapon.

Reinhart would probably get absolutely destroyed if he goes alone.

First of all - why dyou think that? I think that's a lot of unearned mistrust in his competency.

Second of all - I'm not suggesting that he goes alone! I'm suggesting he and Magnus go together. Reinhardt is a hero unit. Magnus is a hero unit. Together they best amplify the efforts of the Albionese. Together they're well equipped and well supported. Mena can't go with them, again cause her weapon is volatile, but that's ok because someone needs to command the Tridentine forces and she is probably the best choice for that anyway!

That's my view. That's why I voted for the plan i suggested haha which includes what I described.
 
Reinhardt is a hero unit. Magnus is a hero unit.
That is definitely a mindset that I don't think is applicable to this quest. Just because he's a named character does not mean he's automatically better than every no-name out there. Nor did I or anyone else claim he's incompetent. Hell, I compared him to a Greatsword, y'know, the absolute cream of the crop, comprised of the most talented and experienced soldiers in an entire province. That's a bit generous of me considering how these guys have decades of experience fighting baddies over Reinhart.

The thing is though, that "simply" being a Greatsword just wouldn't be enough in this fight. Not when his zweihander will probably bounce off of the enemy's hide and do basically nothing. The Albionese guys probably know some tricks to exploit some weak spots in those elite fimir but that's knowledge that Reinhart doesn't currently have.

Magnus with his Runefang can afford not having that knowledge because he can simply cleave through them, but Reinhart doesn't. Ok? Again, I'm not saying he's incompetent, I'm saying that since he doesn't have the tools needed to be useful in this situation, he'd do better at the castle battle.

it's becasue he doesn't have one that he can, and because Mena does have an enchanted weapon she can't.

Just because he can be sent doesn't mean he should be sent. you get me?
 
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[X] Plan: Castle Strike

Don't really feel we need to split up or focus on the Ogrham. Just beat down the castle and let the Albionese deal with their magic stones
 
[X] Plan Manticore and Wolf takes Castle
-[X] The Oghams: There will be only the most elite Fimir Warriors and powerful Dirachs - or Balefiends, to use the Imperial terminology. One can apparently only even approach with a glyph of declared protection scrawled upon their person, as well as the presence of a Druid. Even worse, to get there one must try and creep through a deadly Albionese marsh to get there. Mardudd intends to join in on this effort himself. Twenty five of the best Greatswords will accompany Magnus in this, as too many bodies might ruin the entire point of attempting stealth through the marsh. None of the cavalry could even begin to try and make their way through the marsh. This will be done on foot, or not at all.
-[X] Shifted Tines: Mena and Reinhardt might be better placed elsewhere. (Castle)

Yeah I'm just going to go for the plan that gives the best odds of success in my opinion. Magnus has a super sword that won't blow up and Greatswords that are used to this sort of bullshit while Reinhardt and Mena are both more used to regular kinds of fighting instead of the asymetrical bullshit Frederick has been teaching his children.

We could also do plan with all heirs assaulting ogham stones, but others don't like no heir leading forces on castle for understandable reasons.

Uh, no. Just no. The current argument seems to be the issue with the Heirs of Ostermark and Nordland not being as killy as the Heir of Ostland when it comes to reclaiming Oghams so some people want them all on castle duty, some want only Magnus on Ogham duty and some want only Mena to stay on castle duty because her magic weapon is too unstable to use near Oghams.
 
[X] Plan Manticore and Wolf takes Castle
-[X] The Oghams: There will be only the most elite Fimir Warriors and powerful Dirachs - or Balefiends, to use the Imperial terminology. One can apparently only even approach with a glyph of declared protection scrawled upon their person, as well as the presence of a Druid. Even worse, to get there one must try and creep through a deadly Albionese marsh to get there. Mardudd intends to join in on this effort himself. Twenty five of the best Greatswords will accompany Magnus in this, as too many bodies might ruin the entire point of attempting stealth through the marsh. None of the cavalry could even begin to try and make their way through the marsh. This will be done on foot, or not at all.
-[X] Shifted Tines: Mena and Reinhardt might be better placed elsewhere. (Castle)

Yeah I'm just going to go for the plan that gives the best odds of success in my opinion. Magnus has a super sword that won't blow up and Greatswords that are used to this sort of bullshit while Reinhardt and Mena are both more used to regular kinds of fighting instead of the asymetrical bullshit Frederick has been teaching his children.



Uh, no. Just no. The current argument seems to be the issue with the Heirs of Ostermark and Nordland not being as killy as the Heir of Ostland when it comes to reclaiming Oghams so some people want them all on castle duty, some want only Magnus on Ogham duty and some want only Mena to stay on castle duty because her magic weapon is too unstable to use near Oghams.
Lets be honest we trained our children to kill the big stuff first, Tactics and leadership we worked on but, KILLING BIG HERO UNITS is a daily training regiment amongst the herd. We simply don't know about the other two besides their positions/orders that belong in. They both are killy but perhaps not our linage level of pure murder. Magnus is a stratagest through his own shear stubbornness and devotion, hes not an instictually general he's a tacticle one (god now im thinking of the that one manga Kingdom with the differing general groups).
 
[X] Plan: Three Points of the Trident
-[X] The Castle: The bulk of the Fimir Force will be here either within or around, as will the bulk of the assembled Albionese and Imperial forces, ready to receive the Fimir once the 'Fenbeasts' break down the gates and walls and provoke them. The currently finicky magics of the wizards may be of some use here, but Imperial steel will be of certain use. Command will apparently go to Mardudd's eldest daughter, Aberfa, as well as a number of other nobles over those who they recruited from their own holdings. The Imperials will be on the right flank, due to not quite knowing for certain just how fighting in a more integrated manner might go. The Blue Wolves will wait on the flanks along with the rest of the Albionese Cavalry.
-[X] Shifted Tines: Mena and Reinhardt might be better placed elsewhere. (Write In Where Mena and Reinhardt will be deployed)
--[X] Mena will be deployed to The Castle with The Blue Wolves
--[X] Reinhardt will be deployed to The Oghams with 25 of his knights

My reasoning is simple.
  1. Magnus's Runefang was explicitly called out as being impacted by the Winds here and we know they will get much worse in the Circle.
  2. Magnus is also the over-all leader of the Imperials and explicitly the best at leading campaigns. So, I am loathed to separate him from the army.
  3. Mena has enchanted wargear and is thus even more in danger should she enter the Circle.
  4. The Blue Wolves are going to be separated from the ground troops and thus whoever we place in command there (Magnus). Mena is best suited to controlling and leading them absent another hero unit we know.
  5. Reinhardt is a peer and equal to Magnus and Mena and his wargear is in no danger of exploding if he enters the circle.
  6. The Knights of the Everlasting are likely to be broken up for this battle anyway.
 
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"Well no, because the Caledor Dragontamer and Golden Age High Elf mages were long long ago, so..." or "No, because while Ulthuan has waystones which regulate the magic that enters into the land, it also has the Vortex; to finally suck up all the excess magic. That is what Albion lacks. Albion only has Oghams putting the magic into the land; it has no Vortex that also takes it out, once the magic has done the job of making the land more mystical, mythical, magical."

It's just entirely different situations. Ulthuan is, forever, drawing the magic into the Vortex. Always. It's suffused with magic, sure, but eventually the excess, the runoff, the build-up, is drawn away into the Vortex by the Waystones across the world, across Ulthuan, the dozens that help make up the Isle of the Dead. Furthermore, the elves consistently work to push the magic into the Vortex, or at least some of the Waystones which then push into the Vortex. The Waystone Network was built with the Elves, and the Dwarfs, across their combined Empires, and a bit beyond as well. Waystones were built upon natural points in the leylines. Other places of major leyline activity, such as the leylines in Kislev, are also a thing.

The notable thing about the Mists of Albion is that they are, kinda sorta...mmm...Chaos-y? Also, when I brought up the Lizardman comparison earlier, it was sort of important. The Truthsayers of Old were directly taught by the Old Ones about sacred geometries and what not. It's why they are DEADLY serious about no one touching the Stones other than them, and them alone. Because as the Lizardmen can demonstrate, something being off by, like, a few centimeters might make things go bad, or they'll shift entire geographies to make them fit what they 'need' to be. But yes, we do know that they used their magic to 'bind the Chaos mists to the north' and then forge their own veil of fog around the island to protect it.

The very first Waystones were made by Old Ones as basic magic management aids (basic magic management aids for GODS, but still), then the Waystones were expanded upon by the Elves, and finally the Dwarfs joined in.

But the important difference is that the Waystones guide the Winds of Magic, always, towards the Great Vortex. Unless, you know, they get corrupted or broken or something. Ulthuan is heavily enchanted, magical, etc. because it is right by the Vortex, and that magic washes over it constantly. But it washes over it...into the Vortex. Certain areas of it like in their mountains are straight up kinda thinned barriers into the Realm of Chaos, and monsters and daemons come pouring out of there regularly. Also, sometimes, Isha gets sad/mad, and when Asuryan isn't looking She washes Her entire divine power over the whole of Ulthuan and wipes out all the daemons/monsters on it for a time before more can eventually come out of the mountains again. Yes, places like Saphery, and Avelorn, and, well, all of it, are utterly suffused with magic. But really, magical places most often go wrong when the magic stays forever. When magic pools, and clogs, and never even begins drifting towards the Vortex, and thickens into Dhar. It might not seem like it, but ever moment, the magic that fills, covers, Ulthuan? Is steadily draining away. It is the Vortex, however, and the Waystone Network, which draws the magic past and through Ulthuan. It might be an infinitesimal drain on Ulthuan overall, but so too is the gain. Thus, the terrible equilibrium that Caledor Dragontamer has been maintaining for just about ever. Enough so that even to the elves, their lands are pretty essentially eternally enchanted and all that such and so.

Albion? Albion has none of that. Because at the end of the day, even though the Old Ones built one of their few homes there, and there are old, old temples dedicated to the Old Ones, there are no Waystones built there. The Asur spread out and expanded upon what the Old Ones left behind. They never once sent any such teams to Albion. Because there weren't any Waystones to check up and build upon. Albion was once a paradise island, a birght shining sun, glorious bountiful crops, pleasant living overall.

The Ogham Stone Circles were built by the students of the Old Ones, direct students. 'Something' in the Stone Circles draws the rain, the clouds, blotting out that glorious sun. Because at the end of the day, if the Albionese hadn't sacrificed their island paradise home by deliberately taking huge chunks of Chaos during the Great Incursion and straight up grounding it down into the bedrock of the island, the elves would have been overwhelmed. It's literally stated that 'the elves would certainly have been overrun had the Druids of Albion not stemmed the flow'. By doing so, they prevented more daemons, more Chaos forces, from invading Ulthuan during the Great Incursion. And the difference between the Waystones is that they work by regulating the flow. Albion's Oghams directly affect the flow by stoppering it, by taking it into itself. Which, in turn, relieves a significant amount of pressure off the Vortex. In permanence. The Vortex's function is able to work as it has because the magic doesn't flow away from Albion. Ulthuan relies wholly on magic, if the Polar Gates were ever to actually be shut, it would sink to the bottom of the ocean or be consumed by the Vortex before it either became the 'new' Chaos Gate into the world or collapsed. The thing is though, the Albionese were taught by the Old Ones. The Old Truthsayers knew exactly what they were doing. If their magic in doing Oghams, in magic containment stones stuff, was considered equal to or exceeding the elves at the time, I have to assume that they could have made proper Waystones like the old Network that the Old Ones built, only directed to flow towards the Vortex, like the Asur-made ones. They deliberately made the stone circles instead. Albion is a terrible place to live. No one should ever want to live there, or go there, or spend a lot of time there. That's the point. To close themselves off to the world, deliberately, and make it a place where others would avoid it even if they could go there.

To put it more mathematically (obviously these numbers are entirely made up, just trying to give a general sense):

1. Polar Gates release a 100% Winds of Chaos/Magic Flow across the world, from the north and south respectively.
2. Vortex was built by the Elves to probably try and absorb that 100%, but had to be aided by the Lizardmen in fortifying the Vortex proper and the Albionese in reducing the actual flow taken in.
3. So, in reality, the Vortex was built to try and hit that 100%, but the Asur alone couldn't do it. So...say they managed to get to 60% alone. Then the Lizardmen propped it up further, to 70%.
4. The Albionese took the opposite approach, by taking that remaining 30% and rather than forcing it into a Vortex that couldn't handle that extra flow, decided to ground it down right onto their own island.
5. Thus, to the casual Asur, the Vortex is this crowning achievement, and it is definitely doing 100% of the job. Because as far as they know, it is. They don't really know that A - it had to be helped to get as strong as it is, and B - It literally is not taking in every bit of magic because of the Ogham Circles.
6. And even then, the Chaos Wastes are a big, major thing, so probably even less than 60-70%, but more like 40-50%, with Albion taking that 30% and leaving the remaining % of Chaos energies into making the Northern and Southern Wastes. Which would be even worse should Albion stop doing what it's doing.

The entire point of the Ogham Stones of Albion is that they are straight up reducing the strain on the Vortex. If something were to change on that, you might well run into a situation of the Vortex suddenly buckling as a significant amount of magical flow is dumped onto it that it isn't prepared to handle. Every major Chaos incursion, the Chaos Wastes shift a bit further south, it's how places like Karag Dum got swallowed up forever. If the Vortex can't fix that, thumping all the flow that Albion is constantly taking care of..mmm. Caledor Dragontamer and his fellows are threading a dangerous knife's edge every second of every day. Do you want them to try and handle all that extra magic suddenly being thrust down on them? I wouldn't. Especially when Albion is responsible for taking on enough Chaos energies such that the forces of Chaos would have won the Great Incursion if they hadn't been.

And the Ancient Albionese knew it. They were as deliberate as their Old One teachers in their choice. They knew what would happen, but judged it a worthy sacrifice to preserve the rest of the world. They knew the Vortex was being made, just as the Lizardmen did. But both students of the Old Ones made their own choices, and both, technically, worked. They worked very well. According to Plan, as it were. Was it a Great Plan? Maybe not. But it was planned. It ruins the island paradise, sure. But what isn't worth sacrificing to save the world? A home? A history?

A future?

The Ancient Albionese accepted all three as worth it.

It isn't really a case of 'ah, they don't have Waystones making the magic go away properly'. It's a case of 'ah, this is exactly what has to be done so the Vortex is unimpeded by however much Chaos energies we can take unto ourselves.'
 
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[X] Plan: Three Points of the Trident
-[X] The Castle: The bulk of the Fimir Force will be here either within or around, as will the bulk of the assembled Albionese and Imperial forces, ready to receive the Fimir once the 'Fenbeasts' break down the gates and walls and provoke them. The currently finicky magics of the wizards may be of some use here, but Imperial steel will be of certain use. Command will apparently go to Mardudd's eldest daughter, Aberfa, as well as a number of other nobles over those who they recruited from their own holdings. The Imperials will be on the right flank, due to not quite knowing for certain just how fighting in a more integrated manner might go. The Blue Wolves will wait on the flanks along with the rest of the Albionese Cavalry.
-[X] Shifted Tines: Mena and Reinhardt might be better placed elsewhere. (Write In Where Mena and Reinhardt will be deployed)
--[X] Mena will be deployed to The Castle with The Blue Wolves
--[X] Reinhardt will be deployed to The Oghams with 25 of his knights

My reasoning is simple.
  1. Magnus's Runefang was explicitly called out as being impacted by the Winds here and we know they will get much worse in the Circle.
  2. Magnus is also the over-all leader of the Imperials and explicitly the best at leading campaigns. So, I am loathed to separate him from the army.
  3. Mena has enchanted wargear and is thus even more in danger should she enter the Circle.
  4. The Blue Wolves are going to be separated from the ground troops and thus whoever we place in command there (Magnus). Mena is best suited to controlling and leading them absent another hero unit we know.
  5. Reinhardt is a peer and equal to Magnus and Mena and his wargear is in no danger of exploding if he enters the circle.
  6. The Knights of the Everlasting are likely to be broken up for this battle anyway.
got ninjaed while editing my post and I don't want it to be lost since it is a plan.
 
And the Ancient Albionese knew it. They were as deliberate as their Old One teachers in their choice. They knew what would happen, but judged it a worthy sacrifice to preserve the rest of the world. They knew the Vortex was being made, just as the Lizardmen did. But both students of the Old Ones made their own choices, and both, technically, worked. They worked very well. According to Plan, as it were. Was it a Great Plan? Maybe not. But it was planned. It ruins the island paradise, sure. But what isn't worth sacrificing to save the world? A home? A history?

A future?

The Ancient Albionese accepted all three as worth it.
God sometimes I forget how good a writer you are @torroar. How the hell do you pull off a line like that off the top of your head?
 
Uh not to be a dick but I never got an answer to my question @torroar

So magic Albion brain balls yay or nay?

Brain balls

One of the most important lines in that is that after they get daubbed in lime, they 'dry in the sun'. I don't see much 'drying in the sun' going on in Albion, my dude. Possibly some might try to do that with Fimir brains, but they're kinda big dudes, you know? So...yeah. Doesn't seem to economical, when you can just display the beaks of the Fimir you've killed instead. Sorry. Again, the Tribes of Albion don't skirmish/fight with one another nearly as much as IRL Scottish/Irish/Gaelic/ETC. societies. They've had other things to contend with, and the Druids never accede to big major human tribal civil wars. That garbage too easily runs the risk of harming one of the Oghams. They shut that stuff down before it starts. A central unifying purpose that everyone agrees upon strips a lot of the animosity that would lead to things like IRL brain balls.

God sometimes I forget how good a writer you are @torroar. How the hell do you pull off a line like that off the top of your head?

I uh, I'll be honest. I just sorta...rattled it off the top of my head as a concluding line after the rest of the post. Appreciate the compliment though! :)
 
[X] Plan: Castle Strike

I like this plan so imma just go with it! Also, man did Albion suffer for the greater good of the world. The humans there definitely deserve a lot of help.
 
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