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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Fanhunter696 said:
Mathilde has personally lead the forces that have recovered the second-largest Dwarven city in history (with extremely low casualties if I may add), burnt a Waagh to crisp, saved 300 of the most experienced smelters on the Dwarf race (including the elder), and has single-handedly pulled a lost Karak from the Warp with survivors still alive and kicking...

You either underestimate the amount of reputation that we have among the Dwarfs or you seriously overestimate how much entering Uzkulak to buy stuff and get intel would cost us...
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Like, I'm not saying the dwarves would start ostracizing us.

But it'd be a sour note.

Briefvoice said:
I think people should absolutely vote for what they want, but it seemed like BoneyM was very quick to jump in and go, "Seriously, it's not going to be a problem," with regards to either safety or dwarf-opinion concerns.

I guess you never know, but that sounded like word of QM against "the dwarves are gonna be pissed" as a thing.
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I'm not worried about safety.

I am thinking that it's over-optimistic for you to take "Mathilde has the reputation to swing it" as "no, the dwarves aren't going to be pissed." I'm pretty sure we can "swing it," in that the dwarves won't cast us out of the expedition and that Belegar won't fire us as court wizard and so on. But I'm also pretty sure it'll put a dent in the expedition's trust for us, and I don't want that right now.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Like, I'm not saying the dwarves would start ostracizing us.

But it'd be a sour note.

I'm not worried about safety.

I am thinking that it's over-optimistic for you to take "Mathilde has the reputation to swing it" as "no, the dwarves aren't going to be pissed." I'm pretty sure we can "swing it," in that the dwarves won't cast us out of the expedition and that Belegar won't fire us as court wizard and so on. But I'm also pretty sure it'll put a dent in the expedition's trust for us, and I don't want that right now.
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Whereas I think that our reputation is so toweringly high, and our role as a sneaky wizard well-known enough, that they'll just trust us to know what we're doing, where they would be very irate/concerned with someone less trusted.

And, of course, our default course of action is to not mention it to the dwarves at all, rendering the point moot. It won't be relevant unless we end up buying a slave we need to explain or something - books or even regents we can just quietly bring back.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I am thinking that it's over-optimistic for you to take "Mathilde has the reputation to swing it" as "no, the dwarves aren't going to be pissed." I'm pretty sure we can "swing it," in that the dwarves won't cast us out of the expedition and that Belegar won't fire us as court wizard and so on. But I'm also pretty sure it'll put a dent in the expedition's trust for us, and I don't want that right now.
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That seems very pessimistic. To start with, she's not even planning on telling them she went in the first place. So your baseline is "no reputation hit". If she does tell them, it's because she's bringing back either information or goods that:

1. The Expedition needs to both know about and know where she got it from.
2. Valuable enough that a reputation hit might be worthwhile.

"Valuable enough" and "Expedition has to know where she got it" would be things like "rescuing a wizard who was enslaved" or "arranging another food source for the expedition" or "warning of massive ambush planned for the Expedition".

The absolute worst case is that she puts a dent in the expedition's trust over something worth it.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Like, I'm not saying the dwarves would start ostracizing us.

But it'd be a sour note.
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We're a lying liar who can lie. If it would make them upset we can just not tell them. We can break off from the expedition invisibly and travel two hundred miles in a day, so it's not like we need to ask them to make a detour.

This pessimistic interpretation seems to be stemming from a belief that we're going to wear a 'I traded with Chaos Dwarves and all I got after taxes was this T-Shirt' sort of garment.
 
I think my favorite Warhammer fan naming joke was calling Mallus' south pole "snortable antarctica" in Maugan Ra's shortlived Skaven quest.
 
I'll be honest, my number one priority in going to Chaos Vegas is to buy some food. So Mattie/our allies don't get weak from hunger and die a horrible death or fall to chaos because dreams of steak be way too tempting.

Which would, you know, kind of serve as a giant sign telling our allies what we did.

If we aren't going to buy food ... my desire to go decreases by a lot.

Seeing as there are a few people who want to go, but assume most people wouldn't want to get food there and thus assume no one would find out .... maybe we should actually get those numbers checked? Cause, after all, whether or not we get food decides if our allies learn we went there, which is one of the bigger issues weighing on people's mind here.

Vote here on if you would vote to get food or not if we end up going to Chaos Vegas. Sort of important info.

Edit:

PS,

I deleted the poll link to avoid potentally affecting the vote via methods that I don't know the GM's opinion on, I should have asked first.
 
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[X] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann
[X] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak Varr

storryeater said:
I still think the greatsword and dagger are metaphorical, not literal (elegant and subtle solutions that do the minimum required damage even in violence, not brute force) and that we are following the tenet just fine.
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Valid interpretation but it was intended by the devs to be literal for reasons that are obscure.
 
King Arthur said:
I'll be honest, my number one priority in going to Chaos Vegas is to buy some food. So Mattie/our allies don't get weak from hunger and die a horrible death or fall to chaos because dreams of steak be way too tempting.

Which would, you know, kind of serve as a giant sign telling our allies what we did.

If we aren't going to buy food ... my desire to go decreases by a lot.

Seeing as there are a few people who want to go, but assume most people wouldn't want to get food there and thus assume no one would find out .... maybe we should actually get those numbers checked? Cause, after all, whether or not we get food decides if our allies learn we went there, which is one of the bigger issues weighing on people's mind here.

www.poll-maker.com

Have your say: If we go to Chaos Vegas, would you vote to buy Food/Supplies

Voice your opinion on the poll: If we go to Chaos Vegas, would you vote to buy Food/Supplies
www.poll-maker.com www.poll-maker.com

Vote here on if you would vote to get food or not if we end up going to Chaos Vegas. Sort of important info.
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I'm not sure Boney will be happy to see this when they get back online.

It feels... too much of manipulation of voting treads or something.

maybe don't add any more layers to the voting process before asking for permission? especially outside voting programs that can be manipulated really easily with VPNs?
 
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BoneyM said:
The only way to know is to go there.
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I mean are there currently any reasons to go there other than that and rolling the gacha I guess?

I just don't feel like it is a sensible IC action. Not when I don't know what stories she heard and whether she'd care about them. It's like visiting North Korea while on a mission in Northeast China because you have a friendly North Korean prisoner at home that has told you some fun horror stories about the town he grew up in.

BoneyM said:
This discussion has happened already, except it was the Deceiver versus the Grey College. Unstoppable force, immovable object, et cetera.
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I was more curious about it being resisted by savvy named characters with high stats or relevant traits or if it requires something like divine intervention, legendary mental powers or the combined scrutiny of a premier magical intelligence agency
BoneyM said:
Not on this scale. She was a charcoal burner, and with the Empire's forests being what they are, it's not unlikely that she's seen more fights than Mathilde.
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Do we know for how long she's been a Journeywoman?
Omegahugger said:
While I am voting for it because I am a shameless Qrech fanboy, there is an argument to be made that ignoring the local Skaven population entirely and assuming that they won't be a problem is not a good idea.
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Visiting them just as we enter Zorn Uzkul doesn't in any way guarantee that we learn anything about their plans for the expedition. Or at least not any more than normal scouting would suss out threats.
SuperSonicSound said:
Just like we shouldn't have visited Karak Vlag, terrible choice.
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Karak Vlag was visiting a rock on the off chance that our personal exceptional mage sight solves an unsolvable mystery.

What is the specific argument of value for Mathilde visiting Moulder right now?
 
King Arthur said:
I'll be honest, my number one priority in going to Chaos Vegas is to buy some food. So Mattie/our allies don't get weak from hunger and die a horrible death or fall to chaos because dreams of steak be way too tempting.

Which would, you know, kind of serve as a giant sign telling our allies what we did.

If we aren't going to buy food ... my desire to go decreases by a lot.

Seeing as there are a few people who want to go, but assume most people wouldn't want to get food there and thus assume no one would find out .... maybe we should actually get those numbers checked? Cause, after all, whether or not we get food decides if our allies learn we went there, which is one of the bigger issues weighing on people's mind here.

www.poll-maker.com

Have your say: If we go to Chaos Vegas, would you vote to buy Food/Supplies

Voice your opinion on the poll: If we go to Chaos Vegas, would you vote to buy Food/Supplies
www.poll-maker.com www.poll-maker.com

Vote here on if you would vote to get food or not if we end up going to Chaos Vegas. Sort of important info.
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I am not sure if we can really answer that right now. I mean, what we want to buy would depend heavily on what is available, and we won't know that until we get there.

Plus, once the purchase vote starts that's when people start arguing, which means a decent chunk of the people who vote here will change their minds afterwards.
 
Why do people think we'll be trading with the Chaos Dwarves? They're generally not merchants, certainly not all
The merchants that will be present. The people we're almost certainly going to be dealing with are the merchants who use the city as a stop off point on the way to and from Cathay and dock there to trade.

I think we're more likely to be doing business with the Skaven who visit there than with the Chaos Dwarves who rule the city. The rulers don't need to trade with small fry like we'll seem to be. They just need to tax the merchants. It's not as if we'll be looking to hire a daemon engine and its crew.

Now, the merchants will be paying taxes to the Chaos Dwarves, so we'd be indirectly benefiting them, but that's a quite secondary matter.

I expect there to be all sorts of unsavoury sorts there, Chaos marauders of all sorts - but we've already gone there with the deal we made with the Kurgan. Norscan pirates and the steppe tribes that trade with the Chaos Dwarves aren't appreciably worse than them.
 
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Hoping we could buy some slave's freedom if its elves or dwarfs even if it cost food or our rep, I guess we could explain it away as getting more information since slaves would been inside long enough to learn things as they're invisible to their masters.
 
Rafin said:
Visiting them just as we enter Zorn Uzkul doesn't in any way guarantee that we learn anything about their plans for the expedition. Or at least not any more than normal scouting would suss out threats.
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There's a massive difference between what you might expect to find out about future plans from being able to visit a nerve center (while able to speak their slave tongue and read their writing) and what you might find from normal scouting.
 
I've been convinced that looking into both Uzkulak and the Moulder Combes is a good idea. We need to keep an eye on the mission, and the mission is to get this crazy train to Karag Dum and back again. This means scouting the route to detect, avoid or ameliorate dangers. While we are having the Knights scout out the surrounding area of the expedition, Mathilde is the only one who can spy on the major strategic threats in this leg of the journey. So we should go and see what the Chaos Dwarves and Clan Moulder are up to, if anything.

Other than that I want our social votes to focus on the leadership of the Expedition. This will hopefully give us the personal influence we would need to sway the expedition in case Karag Dum is a loss and Borek goes off the deep end. Taking care of the shaken ducklings is the job of their Drake, Mr. Van Horstmann. He knows them better and has given us no reason to distrust him.

[x] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak Varr
[x] Visit the combes that Qrech told you about
[x] Thane Borek Forkbeard
[x] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[x] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider
[x] Preceptor Joerg von Zavstra
[x] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart the Younger
 
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King Arthur said:
I'll be honest, my number one priority in going to Chaos Vegas is to buy some food. So Mattie/our allies don't get weak from hunger and die a horrible death or fall to chaos because dreams of steak be way too tempting.

Which would, you know, kind of serve as a giant sign telling our allies what we did.

If we aren't going to buy food ... my desire to go decreases by a lot.
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It's a conditional. If it seems like we can make a deal for food, then we'll likely buy it. But if that's not possible then there's no need to tell the Expedition about it.

Grey wizard protocol; the boss only knows what he needs to know.
 
Rafin said:
Karak Vlag was visiting a rock on the off chance that our personal exceptional mage sight solves an unsolvable mystery.

What is the specific argument of value for Mathilde visiting Moulder right now?
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I mean there's been a lot of arguments. I could rehash them all over again but instead I'll state this.

We didn't expect Karak Vlag to be a possible threat that could destroy the expedition, turns out it was. The skaven could easily be mustering a force to destroy us, the same could be true about Uzkulak.
 
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Jrin said:
Hoping we could buy some slave's freedom if its elves or dwarfs even if it cost food or our rep, I guess we could explain it away as getting more information since slaves would been inside long enough to learn things as they're invisible to their masters.
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Kind of don't like how humans don't fall into this argument.

what about Grail Knights? empire nobles? a Kid with the potential to be a wizard that's not yet dhur'd?
 
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