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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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DragonParadox said:
What if it goes down by being cracked open by a Great Unclean one or something? The point is that this is a dwarf who is going into the Chaos Wastes with just enough supplies to make his destination, if everything goes to plan. It's the bloody chaos wastes, assume at least 20 things won't go to plan and you might be in the ballpark of a reasonable estimate.
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It occurs to me: the steam wagons are going only half the speed they were planned to travel at. Because of axle damage worries that were only discovered during the first leg of their travel to the expeditionary area, a leg of travel that happened after the initial design of the wagons.

So if we only have enough food to get there and not enough to get back it's probably because the storerooms were planned with the intention that we would have barely enough food to get there and back without any resupply, then it turned out that that trip would take twice as much time as expected.
 
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NSMS said:
To a point, yes, and taking on more troops than they had initially was definitely the right way to go. The problem is that Borek took on too many by a significant amount, and didn't do a thing to stop Mathilde from continuing when she'd already recruited enough to stretch things thin. Supplies are not something you leave to chance or run the risk running out of unless you've no other choice, but that's exactly the situation Borek's allowed here. An army that goes without food for more than a short period will fall apart, full stop, no questions asked- the only thing more critical is water- and the expedition is only a few problems or delays away from that fate.
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Indeed. To put things bluntly Borek's lack of preparation in terms of logistics is itself proof that he is unfit for command. He might get lucky and never have to face those issues before his inevitable demise, but even if that is the case his own command still likely lost a great deal of respect for him when they found that out. You can see it with Mathilde, you can see it with Gorek and no doubt the knight captains feel the same.


guyfromtheplace1 said:
It occurs to me: the steam wagons are going only half the speed they were planned to travel at. Because of axle damage worries that were only discovered during the first leg of their travel to the expeditionary area, a leg of travel that happened after the initial design of the wagons.

So if we only have enough food to get there and not enough to get back it's probably because the storerooms were planned with the intention that we would have barely enough food to get there and back without any resupply, then it turned out that that trip would take twice as much time as expected.
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Which he was somehow magically unable to ascertain until Praag.
 
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Couldn't we just buy some more food and water while we are still in Kislev and strap it to the land monitors? From the descriptions it didn't sound like the tops and sides of the wagons are already in use.
 
Come to think of it, light cavalry are able to make the 40 miles per day rate the expedition is currently expecting. We could plausibly just buy a dozen packhorses at our last resupply point, load them up with a little food, then eat that food and the spare horses as our rations for the first week or so.
 
guyfromtheplace1 said:
It occurs to me: the steam wagons are going only half the speed they were planned to travel at. Because of axle damage worries that were only discovered during the first leg of their travel to the expeditionary area, a leg of travel that happened after the initial design of the wagons.

So if we only have enough food to get there and not enough to get back it's probably because the storerooms were planned with the intention that we would have barely enough food to get there and back without any resupply, then it turned out that that trip would take twice as much time as expected.
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That's actually a much more reasonable suggestion. It still requires them not to have run any tests on the speed the wagons can sustain for some reason, which is just bad practice, but I still prefer it to 'Borek is this much of an idiot'.
DragonParadox said:
You probably don't want to leave your food exposed to the elements in the Chaos Wastes or even the dark lands.
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If you ate that food first it could work, though even without accounting for magic you don't really want to leave food (even sealed casks, barrels, etc) lying about in the open. Maybe move some non-perishable supplies outside and store the food into its place? My primary concern would be about how much the added weight might slow the wagons rather than contamination, tbh.
 
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Saidoro said:
Come to think of it, light cavalry are able to make the 40 miles per day rate the expedition is currently expecting. We could plausibly just buy a dozen packhorses at our last resupply point, load them up with a little food, then eat that food and the spare horses as our rations for the first week or so.
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I suppose we could bring it up with someone? of just dump Mathilde's massive backlog of money she doesn't know what to do with on the project.
 
[x] Magister Michel Solmann
[x] Asarnil the Dragonlord
[x] Deathfang
[x] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann
 
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The wagons might be able go faster/longer as provisions are eaten and they have to carry less weight.
 
Saidoro said:
Come to think of it, light cavalry are able to make the 40 miles per day rate the expedition is currently expecting. We could plausibly just buy a dozen packhorses at our last resupply point, load them up with a little food, then eat that food and the spare horses as our rations for the first week or so.
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Pretty sure packhorses don't count as light cavalry, but still an idea that might be looked into.

Though rereading the update, none of the expedition leaders seem to be too worried about the logistics situation. Maybe we are making a mountain out of a molehill here, the people on the ground ought to know better than us armchair generals.
 
guyfromtheplace1 said:
I suppose we could bring it up with someone? of just dump Mathilde's massive backlog of money she doesn't know what to do with on the project.
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I am mostly assuming that it is going to be done in any case. If we think of a simple and obvious idea than others have already thought of it when they have had more time to think about plans.

Much of this is going below the level of abstraction we normally deal with.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Remind me how the svivel cannons aren't from the original expedition please? I read the latest update while half asleep.
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It's the shotgun cannons that used to guard the underground fronts in K8Ps. The one that's still open is stuffed full, so Gotri dropped these on the expedition, since they're no good at long range (as needed for interdicting the overland approaches), and also kind of bad craftsmanship by dwarf standards.
 
NSMS said:
To a point, yes, and taking on more troops than they had initially was definitely the right way to go. The problem is that Borek took on too many by a significant amount, and didn't do a thing to stop Mathilde from continuing when she'd already recruited enough to stretch things thin. Supplies are not something you leave to chance or run the risk running out of unless you've no other choice, but that's exactly the situation Borek's allowed here. An army that goes without food for more than a short period will fall apart, full stop, no questions asked- the only thing more critical is water- and the expedition is only a few problems or delays away from that fate.
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The knights and dragon are the troops most capable of effective foraging, so Borek can reasonably hope they'll be able to feed themselves if necessary. Yes there's a risk but it is a reasonable risk - or at least no less unreasonable than anything else in the expedition.
 
Chronic said:
Pretty sure packhorses don't count as light cavalry, but still an idea that might be looked into.

Though rereading the update, none of the expedition leaders seem to be too worried about the logistics situation. Maybe we are making a mountain out of a molehill here, the people on the ground ought to know better than us armchair generals.
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They're definitely not happy about it, but the attitude seems to be more 'wait and see if it's really that bad before panicking' than anything. Probably because they're actually caught in the situation rather on the outside looking in.
Redshirt Army said:
Blaming Borek for Mathilde "recruiting too many people" is pretty hypocritical, don't you think?
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For me personally, I'm not blaming him for Mathilde's recruitment spree. I'm blaming him for not telling her 'you've done enough, stop!' before she got too carried away, and then not throwing every resource he had at remedying the situation afterwards (or at least, considering the ideas that people have already been throwing around he doesn't seem to have done that). He may not have initiated the situation, but he's the one who allowed it to reach its current state.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
Blaming Borek for Mathilde "recruiting too many people" is pretty hypocritical, don't you think?
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Mathilde was not in charge of logistics, nor did she know what the supply situation is He could have just told us to stop recruiting when a limit was reached, or ideally kept us in the loop with regards to what those numbers were. Also for the record I am not blaming Borek, that is too mild a term. I'm saying he was derelict in his duties as a commander to an almost criminal degree. Starving to death will in fact kill you just as dead as a Chaos Warrior's sword and Borek drove us right up to that cliff.
 
DragonParadox said:
Starving to death will in fact kill you just as dead as a Chaos Warrior's sword and Borek drove us right up to that cliff.
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While this statement is true, it is worth noting that there are several things in Chaos' arsenal capable of stealing your soul as it kills you, therefore leaving you more dead than if you just starved to death.

EDIT: This difference matters when related to stuff like necromancy, which in the worst case scenarios might become relevant.
 
Zero Gravitas said:
The knights and dragon are the troops most capable of effective foraging, so Borek can reasonably hope they'll be able to feed themselves if necessary. Yes there's a risk but it is a reasonable risk - or at least no less unreasonable than anything else in the expedition.
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Foraging in the chaos wastes is dicey, especially deeper in. It's not something anyone with sense would be relying on for food from a practical standpoint alone, to say nothing of the potential effects on morale ('we don't have enough food to feed everyone, so please go off and find your own while we sit back here with our roast goat').
DragonParadox said:
Mathilde was not in charge of logistics, nor did she know what the supply situation is He could have just told us to stop recruiting when a limit was reached, or ideally kept us in the loop with regards to what those numbers were. Also for the record I am not blaming Borek, that is too mild a term. I'm saying he was derelict in his duties as a commander to an almost criminal degree. Starving to death will in fact kill you just as dead as a Chaos Warrior's sword and Borek drove us right up to that cliff.
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I wouldn't go quite that far with regards to the situation- we're not in a position where we're guaranteed to starve. Just in one where it only takes a couple of points of failure for it to happen.
 
[x] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider
[x] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[x] Preceptor Joerg von Zavstra
[x] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart the Younger
[x] Thane Borek Forkbeard
 
BurnNote said:
If something bad happens and a wagon gets damaged, it'll probably kill a lot of dwarfs too, so it's a problem that solves itself. In fact, it's just more food for the kittybirds. He's clearly thought things through.

On a more serious note, the way back will be less of a strain. Even if things go perfectly, the Slayers won't be coming back. So that's about fifty mouths less to feed.
Of course, compared to a few hundred giant wolves or kittybirds, that's not such a big number.
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Unless we get refugees.

I'm basing this mostly off of the wiki on the Grotek and Felix books, but there should still be survivors, maybe, the issue is that if they haven't already lost the Karak I think they will soon, and if they try to get stubborn and think that they can tough it out I'm definitely going to be pushing to try to convince them to evacuate back south with us.
 
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NSMS said:
I wouldn't go quite that far with regards to the situation- we're not in a position where we're guaranteed to starve. Just in one where it only takes a couple of points of failure for it to happen.
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I did say 'an almost criminal degree', it's not grounds to call a council and question his fitness to lead the expedition on its own, but it is a firm push in that direction.
 
NSMS said:
Foraging in the chaos wastes is dicey, especially deeper in. It's not something anyone with sense would be relying on for food from a practical standpoint alone, to say nothing of the potential effects on morale ('we don't have enough food to feed everyone, so please go off and find your own while we sit back here with our roast goat').
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Pretty sure the Dawi would have stone bread rather than roast goat which would make foraging a lot more appealing.
 
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