Borek needs to get to Dum. If he was unwilling to wait a few more years for better weather, he's certainly not willing to abandon the expedition and the prolonged dance of retreats marching and countermarching is unsustainable - there's a limited window of campaign time and then winter sets in.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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Borek needs to get to Dum. If he was unwilling to wait a few more years for better weather, he's certainly not willing to abandon the expedition and the prolonged dance of retreats marching and countermarching is unsustainable - there's a limited window of campaign time and then winter sets in.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
At this point, there's no guarantee there's even enough food to reach Dum. If one of the steam wagons goes down, if the Dolgan renege on their deal (and as a dwarf I wouldn't expect him to rely on chaos-worshipping manlings anyway), if it turns out their estimates for how much food the cavalry need is off... there's a dozen different ways the food situation could turn for the worse. That's why him only bringing just enough food to reach Dum is a big problem even without accounting for the return trip- it relies on their estimates being near-perfect and nothing else going wrong that costs food and/or time.
If a wagon goes down the Expedition will reclaim the food. My read is that the food is sufficient to reach Dum without the Dolgan and that Borek plans to raid the Dolgan if they renege their deal.
MiracleGrow
Miracles for only $19.99 [They/Them]
- Location
- DOOR STUCK DOOR STUCK PLEASE I BEG U
[X] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann
[X] Magister Michel Solmann
[X] Asarnil the Dragonlord
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[X] Magister Michel Solmann
[X] Asarnil the Dragonlord
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
If a wagon goes down, then there's a not inconsiderable chance they won't have space to carry a big chunk of the food from it- they'll need to make room on the other wagons for the other food, supplies, passengers, etc. And yes, by what's been said the food is sufficient to reach Dum without the Dolgan in ideal circumstances- I'm pointing out that there's no guarantee that they will be ideal, and that nothing will happen to make things worse.
What if it goes down by being cracked open by a Great Unclean one or something? The point is that this is a dwarf who is going into the Chaos Wastes with just enough supplies to make his destination, if everything goes to plan. It's the bloody chaos wastes, assume at least 20 things won't go to plan and you might be in the ballpark of a reasonable estimate.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
As the expedition goes on and supplies are used there will be more spare room.
No way - you heard the dwarf, the smaller steam-wagons have cut way down on storage space in exchange for gun decks and stuff. We should take the mother-ship, because that way we'll have room for all of our stuff, including a combination lab/wizard tower that'll make up for the lack of cannons.
That's not really the case - "Down to stonebread" doesn't mean that they'll run out of food, it means they'd be down to emergency rations - dwarfs can keep going reasonably well on just stonebread for a couple weeks. The expedition would absolutely be capable of reaching Dum purely on stores, it just means they'd have lost some combat effectiveness due to heavy rationing at the end of it and even then it'd mostly be the umgi. 'S not like umgi being weaker from hunger would make that much of a difference - they're umgi. The return trip doesn't matter so much, because obviously Karak Dum will have enough supplies that they can refill the expedition's stores.
It's dumb and irrational, but it's the same sort of dumb and irrational (and vaguely racist) behaviour we've seen from Borek before, not a new and more egregious level of dumb and irrational.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
If your expedition is assaulted by a Great Unclean One you would generally assume it to have failed already.
In general, if you get a giant lord of disease and decay that can rival an army send after you it is generally a good sign that you should've changed course a while ago.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Stone bread and ale. They need a balanced diet.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
Everything else we've seen from him could be explained as a result of his desperation to reach Dum. This... can't.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Except Asarnil isn't just an acquaintance, he's our responsibility.
If something bad happens and a wagon gets damaged, it'll probably kill a lot of dwarfs too, so it's a problem that solves itself. In fact, it's just more food for the kittybirds. He's clearly thought things through.
On a more serious note, the way back will be less of a strain. Even if things go perfectly, the Slayers won't be coming back. So that's about fifty mouths less to feed.
Of course, compared to a few hundred giant wolves or kittybirds, that's not such a big number.
- Location
- Aotearoa
However you frame it, it seems clear Borek is banking on finding an intact Karag Dum holding out at the end of the journey.
Logistics weren't our concern, until all at once they became very concerning.
Logistics weren't our concern, until all at once they became very concerning.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Really glad we did that deal.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
[X] Thane Borek Forkbeard
Because he's likely to be a problem at some point
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
partly because he might be a solution to the above problem, but I might be convinced to reconsider this
[X] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider
Because we're going to have to work with them in trying to penetrate the dwarfhold if the thing is occupied, and work with them in deflecting enemy forces if we run into anything significant on our way there or back
[X] Asarnil the Dragonlord
because we just put ourselves between him and the commanders, it might be a good idea to spend some time talking about the mission and his opinions with him
[ ] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann
a maybe problem, not sure whether to vote in this direction or not just yet
Because four horses a day sounds sort of low for what we're feeding, but two hundred hunters should be able to collect more meat than that.
Because he's likely to be a problem at some point
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
partly because he might be a solution to the above problem, but I might be convinced to reconsider this
[X] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider
Because we're going to have to work with them in trying to penetrate the dwarfhold if the thing is occupied, and work with them in deflecting enemy forces if we run into anything significant on our way there or back
[X] Asarnil the Dragonlord
because we just put ourselves between him and the commanders, it might be a good idea to spend some time talking about the mission and his opinions with him
[ ] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann
a maybe problem, not sure whether to vote in this direction or not just yet
So now we have to wonder whether they came up with this figure before or after a dragon and two hundred Wolves of Ulric and Demigriffs joined, drastically increasing the expedition's large predator count.
Because four horses a day sounds sort of low for what we're feeding, but two hundred hunters should be able to collect more meat than that.
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[x] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[x] Asarnil the Dragonlord
[x] Deathfang
[x] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann
[x] Asarnil the Dragonlord
[x] Deathfang
[x] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann
That's what the dragon, slayers and wizards are for. Borek can't fool proof the expedition beyond that.
The expedition is already leaning heavily on southern hold contributions to deal with unexpected situations. To make a list they are:
- runesmith upgrades
- swivel canons
- a dozen wizards
- 200 knights
- Asarnil and Deathfang
- Mathilde of the many hats in all her glory
The original expedition didn't have any of this. The initial expedition plan had rangers to kill stuff from afar and slayers for tricky foes but beyond that and using the wagons themselves as battering rams there wasn't much offensive power in the convoy. Certainly nothing capable of confronting a greater demon.
If the Dawi were ok with that, then taking some risks with food is going to sound mighty reasonable by comparison.
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NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
To a point, yes, and taking on more troops than they had initially was definitely the right way to go. The problem is that Borek took on too many by a significant amount, and didn't do a thing to stop Mathilde from continuing when she'd already recruited enough to stretch things thin. Supplies are not something you leave to chance or run the risk running out of unless you've no other choice, but that's exactly the situation Borek's allowed here. An army that goes without food for more than a short period will fall apart, full stop, no questions asked- the only thing more critical is water- and the expedition is only a few problems or delays away from that fate.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Remind me how the svivel cannons aren't from the original expedition please? I read the latest update while half asleep.