Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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Marlin said:
This is a Trident thing right now, not a thing for the Elector Meets. The Elector Meet that is four years away. By that point, the slow path to the meetings will be complete. Magnus the Pious could have no say in this.
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'I'm opening up foreign relations with Laurelorn, I want to create a stable, positive and long lasting relationship between the Empire of Sigmar and Laurelorn. I've entered into long term treaties and am considering a more public show of solidarity- your thoughts my Emperor?'

This concerns every single Elector Count. By the precedent it sets alone. Even if the written agreements are hashed out. There's still no reason we can include Nariael into the Trident Meetings afterwards. It's a fantastic way of giving her context and interaction with the Mayflies at their own pace after all.

I'm not saying we bring this up in the middle of the gathered Electors. I'm saying we talk privately with Magnus about it before the Elector Meet begins. We are talking about publicly declaring that our political bloc (which already raised tensions somewhat) is making it's own diplomatic and military agreements with a foreign power. There's technically precedent with the Dwarfs and Marienburg's treaty with Ulthuan, but never a foreign power that various Elector Provinces claim is part of their territory. Nor never as close a collaboration with Elves as this is suggested to be.

When we're in unprecedented and uncharted waters of statecraft, we ought to go to greatest statesman alive as far as we're concerned and try to make sure what we're doing isn't actively counterproductive. Like how our explicit and early endorsement of magic was counterproductive to it's acceptance. Or how the Trident reawakened fears that the Empire would collapse into regional blocs once Magnus dies. The tendency to be impetuousness and tactless doesn't demand the need to be so. For Sigmar's sake- we're not even really cluing Ortrud in before we sign her name on associating with Laurelorn. Quiet is the only one that explicitly feels her out.
 
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[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.

Lets do a quieter approach, that way we can get more information and a better set up going as well.
 
torroar said:
The Unlucky Count had a mighty army, and I know you helped kill him and his army…but please never give me cause to bring mine."
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This sentence is worded poorly i would say, but not actually bad gramatically.
torroar said:
I refuse to believe sh eco"
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As soneone already mentioned, something got cut off here
torroar said:
"No. I want them her at all times."
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This is missing something. Perhaps "Near"?

torroar said:
At the direct center of their formation is, the Everqueen herself
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Comma where it should not be
torroar said:
"More importantly, I apparently got her before it could come of much."
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This is worded weirdly and does not make much sense.
torroar said:
"No! No, no, he as just…,"
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Probably is meant to be is.

Otherwise, great update. Me likes very much.
 
[] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.
 
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[ ] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.

Oops moratorium just announced.
 
[] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.

Trident meetings are for R&R and light talk, if sometimes work related tbh. Also, bringing it up with Magnus should be a thing too.
 
You know what to hell with it.

[] Trident and Dawn: While Mena could have been more delicate and thought out about it, the idea does hold a bit of merit. An expediency and efficiency that you can certainly appreciate. Plus, the Trident Meeting last year was Stephan's, which means you're hosting this year. Which means you can invite whoever you want. It will be quite visible, however, even if her participation is short. On the other hand, the sooner you can get into it, the faster it will be done with, and hopefully for the better.

We can still deliver the message to Stephen and we can give Otrud a heads up.

The way I figure it, let's get all the decision-makers in one place to better discuss things and clear any misunderstandings or misassumptions. And if Gunthar doesn't like ti, well he wouldn't anyway.
 
torroar said:
You can see, absolutely, why Mena's husband was selected to be one with skill and experience at court and in the art of diplomacy. The absolute arrogance of those words, and how they were delivered, staggers you. Naraiel realizes it as well, going by the surprised look on her face, with just a scant bit of dawning horror as she realizes that Mena is entirely serious.
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Natasha be all like "welcome to my life the last 30 years"
 
I do agree with @Karugus that we want to talk to Magnus about this before we do anything too overtly, not just for how other Electors may react but for the how the dwarfs will do so. I would not be surprised that making any kind of deal of friendship with Wood Elves causes Freddy's opinion across Karak Ankor to drop a number or two, more so for holds who actively fight against Wood Elf Wild Hunts!

Lets get the master statesman's opinion since he has more experience in threading the needle and he would want to help with this for the further long-term stability for the Empire.

Besides, a few extra years to prepare is like a few days for elves in general so its not like we are insulting them by rushing things. In fact giving them some breathing room to process recent events would likely help.
 
[] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.

As people have mentioned, we want to take this slow and build it up over time. Once we have an opportunity to discuss this with our own people we can begin planning for potentially bringing this up with Magnus at the next Elector Count meeting as there is precedent, a la Teclis, for an Elven Ambassador to desire a meeting with the Emperor to discuss matters and so not only will it not be alarming but we can also work in the more long-term portions of the treaty with Laurelorn as a polity with the wider Empire.

Elector Counts can do a lot in their own territory short of actual extra-national military conflicts, but we will need Magnus' support for handling the other Elector Counts who somewhat dislike and those that outright despise us. We don't have the Moot, we can't count on Middenland without Magnus, and Marienburg will hate the idea on principle. The others can be swayed to supporting whatever measures are needed, but unless we take our time building the case in advance we aren't going to be having as strong a position at the negotiating table.

Going loud will help us establish the agreement of Laurelorn with the Northern Trident that much faster, but risks issues with the wider Empire which is the actual hoped for goal of everyone involved.
 
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Pathos said:
[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.

As people have mentioned, we want to take this slow and build it up over time. Once we have an opportunity to discuss this with our own people we can begin planning for potentially bringing this up with Magnus at the next Elector Count meeting as there is precedent, a la Teclis, for an Elven Ambassador to desire a meeting with the Emperor to discuss matters and so not only will it not be alarming but we can also work in the more long-term portions of the treaty with Laurelorn as a polity with the wider Empire.

Elector Counts can do a lot in their own territory short of actual extra-national military conflicts, but we will need Magnus' support for handling the other Elector Counts who somewhat dislike and those that outright despise us. We don't have the Moot, we can't count on Middenland without Magnus, and Marienburg will hate the idea on principle. The others can be swayed to supporting whatever measures are needed, but unless we take our time building the case in advance we aren't going to be having as strong a position at the negotiating table.

Going loud will help us establish the agreement of Laurelorn with the Northern Trident that much faster, but risks issues with the wider Empire which is the actual hoped for goal of everyone involved.
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Good reasoning, but a moratorium has been edited in.
 
[] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.
 
[] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.
 
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Oh, giving more time before we do things overtly also good cause Everqueen and her peer still need to talk some more once they are rested.

Would be great if we could come to Magnus with this idea with knowledge that High and Wood Elves have worked out some kinda diplomacy after years of ignoring each other. Shows that Wood Elves can be talked with just like High ones.
 
Massgamer said:
I do agree with @Karugus that we want to talk to Magnus about this before we do anything too overtly, not just for how other Electors may react but for the how the dwarfs will do so. I would not be surprised that making any kind of deal of friendship with Wood Elves causes Freddy's opinion across Karak Ankor to drop a number or two, more so for holds who actively fight against Wood Elf Wild Hunts!

Lets get the master statesman's opinion since he has more experience in threading the needle and he would want to help with this for the further long-term stability for the Empire.

Besides, a few extra years to prepare is like a few days for elves in general so its not like we are insulting them by rushing things. In fact giving them some breathing room to process recent events would likely help.
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The last time the players got Magnus's opinion about politics. They did not leap into the solution Magnus offered. Treating Magnus as a master statesman right now without hearing what he offers as a suggestion... I'm worried going to him will be a waste of time, like what happened with Gunthar. Heard Magnus the Pious out, then proceed to not follow that advice very well. That's what it looked like to me.

Treating Magnus as the ultimate solution to all our political woes, that didn't work out last time. Magnus should be able to help, but if we refuse to follow the helpful advice, or if it isn't handed to us on a silver platter without our input. Could things turn out like it did when we went to him for advice on Gunthar?
 
[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.

Trying to rush this through will do nothing but reinforce the idea that the Trident is essentially an Empire in miniature that acts without considering the rest of the South. This is an idea that unfortunately already seems to have some level of traction considering how Mena reacted, which is a little unfortunate. Elector Counts are of course allowed a large amount of leeway in how they govern, especially now when the Empire is so recently reunited, but pushing too hard too fast will do nothing but make everyone think it's the Trident vs the rest of the Empire.
 
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[X] A Quieter Approach: Let her send her messengers, speak with Stephan, and the two of you can review her proposals at the Trident Meeting with Ortrud. Simply reviewing paperwork and messages is nothing new there. Far less likely to alarm anyone else. This doesn't have to be as quick as possible, after all, elven lives are long, are they not? It would give you time to get Ortud and possibly others more used to the idea.

We should definitely talk to Magnus about this too.
 
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