Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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- Location
- Brazil
A whole lot of people wanted WW I, or at least their idea of what it would entail. If there weren't a convenient assassination to set it off, a convenient spark would have been made somewhere else.
Let me get to straight: you are suggesting that the Empire ask the Dwarves to not only pay the Empire for the costs their political rival is inflicting in them, but also personally go and secure overland trade routes. All of that, at staggering cost in money and manpower, for at least half a decade.
Because Marienburg said "No". Not Ulthuan, Marienburg.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Ulthuan was willing to mobilize for Marienburg within living memory. Assuming we can do nothing is as erroneous as assuming responsibility for everything.
- Location
- Aotearoa
You know, we're a little lucky the Chamberlain is asking Magister Mathilde Weber, Dawongr and Court Wizard to King Belegar about this.
He could have been asking rather more pointed questions about the applecart being upset and Imperial trade being choked off to Dame Mathilde Weber, largest EIC Stockholder and wealthy trade mogul.
Barak Varr even digging the canal is down to us- yes it was Wilhelminas idea, but we did give the EIC the introduction and opportunity.
Zhufbar's trade interests for gunpowder? Us.
K8P having vast unknown reserves of gold so they can think of leveraging the soft power of the compensation option? Yep, us again, the Karag Nar sleepy-hoard and then finishing the reclamation for the ancient Umgi gold. (Not that this would signify to the Chamberlain, but it is influencing our thinking here).
He could have been asking rather more pointed questions about the applecart being upset and Imperial trade being choked off to Dame Mathilde Weber, largest EIC Stockholder and wealthy trade mogul.
Barak Varr even digging the canal is down to us- yes it was Wilhelminas idea, but we did give the EIC the introduction and opportunity.
Zhufbar's trade interests for gunpowder? Us.
K8P having vast unknown reserves of gold so they can think of leveraging the soft power of the compensation option? Yep, us again, the Karag Nar sleepy-hoard and then finishing the reclamation for the ancient Umgi gold. (Not that this would signify to the Chamberlain, but it is influencing our thinking here).
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Yeah, against the other mayflies, not Karaz Ankor.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Or they could see an opportunity to eat their cake and have it too by making Barak Varr pull their dreadnoughts off Marienburg. Or any number of things that could end badly. Assuming that everyone is competent is a bad idea in unstable scenarios like this. I mean, just now we realized that the Empire's diplomatic corps got so thoroughly fucked up by Dieter IV that they didn't know that Dwarves had a thin beard line and that silence didn't actually mean unity!
Here's the post I was originally responding to:
Our economy is a far more stable and persistent threat than Barak Varr's navy, meaning that showing them that throwing tantrums doesn't work is better accomplished economically than militarily.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
Armed confrontations between nations of any kind are always inherently unpredictable and fraught. There are good reasons why most real world leaders do their best to avoid brinksmanship.
It wouldn't have to be a world ending war that pulled in Ulthuan to be a problem, even. Imagine that a conflict at sea touches off a war between Marienburg and the Dwarves and Empire, and then a month into the war when the Empire has engaged their remaining reserves to attack Marienburg a Waaugh or chaos invasion or undead incursion pops up somewhere else. Or more than one. The Empire could lose one or more whole provinces to bad luck.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Better to raise a bunch of undead to raise Marienburg to to ground in such a way that it is obviously the actions of a lone necromancer that will be shortly killed by us right afterward and not the actions of any polity. That way the problem is solved in such a way that no ones pride is on the line.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
I, uh. I'd have said that the economic route is the one more likely to bring Marienburg back into the Empire, not the one where we go to war with them.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
'Hey The Karaz Ankor, we're suffering economic externalities from your actions, please help' is something they'd absolutely help with, because Dwarves are pathologically responsible.
- Location
- Seattle
You'll never need a flying Dreadnought they said, its vanity they said.
As I have said before, it would be the end of the world. If Ulthuan fights Karaz Ankor in a formal war dwarf mentality means the dwarfs will fight until they win or die. Finubar is not Calandor the Second.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Ulthuan was willing to defend Marienburg from the actual existential threat of being entirely conquered against an unusually weakened Empire. They were not there to defend Marienburg's blockading infrastructure from the Dwarven navy and risk setting off the second War of the Beard because Marienburg decided it wanted to play silly buggers. The two are really not comparable.
[X] No, but they could help break the blockade
Marienburg need a reality check. They've needed one for a very long time now.
Marienburg need a reality check. They've needed one for a very long time now.
So long as the position you hold is that these extremely long lasting powers that have been able to prevent their differences from rising to all out war in spite of extreme bitterness on both sides. Actually aren't competent enough to do that anymore, well fair enough. I think it's extremely condescending though.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Fucking fine, let me try once again to clarify.
The idea that we need military power to prevent them from enacting more blockades isn't worth thinking about because they'd have no economic motive to do so. Even if they did have no economic motive to do so the idea that we'd need military power to prevent them from enacting more blockades is faulty.
I didn't say trade. I said "economic cooperation". Financial institutions cooperating to set economic and financial policy is absolutely an important bit of international cooperation.
And yet they already had that giant war once. And yet we had World War II IRL even after having had World War I, and the Cuban Missile Crisis after that. And yet and yet and yet and yet and yet. Don't escalate. Breaking the blockade is brinksmanship, plain and simple. Thinking that brinksmanship will be okay because everyone is sane and rational is how you get World War III. It's been pointed out repeatedly that it only takes one wrong cannonball for this to blow up.
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You realize we are talking about dwarfs? They don't do complex financial engineering. If they pay the empire it will come in physical chests of gold being lugged down a road somewhere. They will be handed over and that is all your cooperation.
Haha, we simply need to come up with a snazzy enough name for the ship. Get one that sparks the thread's imagination and we're halfway there.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Who is Fozrick?
Maybe the unflattering shit they pulled just didn't ever become public. If a Grey Wizard wants to settle scores during a free-for-all magic war I don't expect him to leave a recognizable trace.
So is the "quest canon" version just the one Mathilde learned about? Would explain why they look the best.
Where can I find the source to that?
Let's not do something that will definitely decrease Dawi population and increase Dawi Grudges, especially if we dangle the Elgi in front of them as culprits. That way lays another War of the Beard. And we do not want that.
That's pretty insane though. Not only does he have us at hand and enough pull to command us to write a report at the very least, he also definitely knows far more than Mathilde about how Marienburg and/or Ulthuan would react to any of the military options. Why would he want us to tell him what to do instead of expecting us to tell him what is possible?
In other words, why can't we pick multiple options as we used to for Abelheim?
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HanEmpire
Delicious
I wonder, could Mathilde use her (and Heidi's?) influence within the Cult of Ranald to use their smuggling rings to supplement the Empire's economy until the Canal gets completed? Marienburg is the holy city of Handrich after all, so I can definitely see Ranaldine cultists wanting to screw them over. With a tidy profit as compensation their show of patriotism of course.
- Location
- Brazil
People, don't read the option where the KA shoulders the burden as rich dwarves spending some gold.
If Boney says it will significantly weaken the KA and the Empire for the entire duration, then it will significantly weaken them.
The Empire is barely keeping a lid on things, as the chamberlain has just explained, and the KA is currently supporting an Expedition and helping shore K8P up.
Securing overland routes will cost the dwarfs manpower they absolutely cannot spare right now. And the worst part is, it still leaves the Empire weak.
If Boney says it will significantly weaken the KA and the Empire for the entire duration, then it will significantly weaken them.
The Empire is barely keeping a lid on things, as the chamberlain has just explained, and the KA is currently supporting an Expedition and helping shore K8P up.
Securing overland routes will cost the dwarfs manpower they absolutely cannot spare right now. And the worst part is, it still leaves the Empire weak.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
And the next time something like this happens the Empire will know that this is an option. And the next time Barak Varr needs something done they'll know that the Empire will cooperate with them because they cooperated with the Empire. Just because they don't run a fiat currency doesn't mean they have no financial policy at all. They're not idiots.