Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

BurnNote · Jun 30, 2020

Vebyast said:
I mean, there was that Lord Magister we brought in for the Eye project that made reality forget his birthday because he was angry that he was getting old...

Also:
"Oooh, you got Weber for Xenodiplomacy? Lucky. Just hold on to your hat. And I mean that literally - she somehow turned herself into a dragon back in the nineties and flies the entire class around the continent for practical lessons."

On the upside, her teaching assisstant is a colony of spiders, so you get some nice silk blankets for the ride.

DragonParadox said:
Indeed, just like all amber wizards who use the spell go mad from the Amber-Red magic turning into Dhar.

*nods*

Seriously guys 'suddenly daemons' requires you to be personally channeling a lot of magic. The transformation itself cannot miscast like that because it's an item.

I'm pretty sure Amber mages transform into Amber aligned dragons. I doubt they can do anything else.
And again, most dragons aren't spell caster. And even the boosted version of the spell doesn't get you an Emperor dragon.

ninjafish · Jun 30, 2020

Vebyast said:
I mean, there was that Lord Magister we brought in for the Eye project that made reality forget his birthday because he was angry that he was getting old...

Also:
"Oooh, you got Weber for Xenodiplomacy? Lucky. Just hold on to your hat. And I mean that literally - she somehow turned herself into a dragon back in the nineties and flies the entire class around the continent for practical lessons."

This is a beautiful vision of the future that we must endeavour to make true.

SuperSonicSound · Jun 30, 2020

[X] Plan Versatile

Vebyast · Jun 30, 2020

ninjafish said:
also an anti-air tower has an easy point of failure, just have ground forces destroy the tower.

That's not a bad point - the Eye of Gazul can be taken by assault from inside the mountain, and anti-air towers/altars can be taken by ground forces, but the dragon altar can defend itself against all comers.

NSMS · Jun 30, 2020

*looks at thread*

*sees meme plan winning*

...

[X] Plan Versatile

SpaceSloth · Jun 30, 2020

Dragons in WHF instinctively hoard treasures right ? Im not sure dwarfes would approve of that.

DragonParadox · Jun 30, 2020

BurnNote said:
I'm pretty sure Amber mages transform into Amber aligned dragons. I doubt they can do anything else.
And again, most dragons aren't spell caster. And even the boosted version of the spell doesn't get you an Emperor dragon.

No, they Turn into Great Fire dragons, fire spitting and all.

Mopman43 · Jun 30, 2020

SpaceSloth said:
Dragons in WHF instinctively hoard treasures right ? Im not sure dwarfes would approve of that.

Unless things go very poorly, they won't be a dragon long enough for that to matter.

LockedMind · Jun 30, 2020

[X] Plan Versatile
It's possible that Versatile's tower won't be enough against an Emperor Dragon, but the other leading plan is too meme-y for me.

DragonParadox · Jun 30, 2020

SpaceSloth said:
Dragons in WHF instinctively hoard treasures right ? Im not sure dwarfes would approve of that.

The volunteer having hoarding instincts for a few hours while he or she helps keep them alive? Call me crazy but I think the dwarfs can bear it.

mouli · Jun 30, 2020

[X] Plan Versatile

Ericwinter · Jun 30, 2020

The one problem I see with eventually turning into a dragon is whether it might interfere with plans for ascension into a goddess.

NSMS said:
*looks at thread*

*sees meme plan winning*

...

[X] Plan Versatile

It's really not a meme plan. The memes came into it after the plan was made on fairly logical grounds and gained enough support that it actually seemed possible. Honestly, the "meme plan" comments seem more like a form of fear-mongering than anything.

notanautomaton · Jun 30, 2020

[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon

ninjafish · Jun 30, 2020

NSMS said:
*looks at thread*

*sees meme plan winning*

...

[X] Plan Versatile

it's not a meme plan.

its perfectly valid, and probably gonna work better than just shooting lightning at it, we have no real counter to the dragon that can move fast enough, so we need something that can slow it down.

The best idea for that, is another dragon.

SpaceSloth · Jun 30, 2020

DragonParadox said:
The volunteer having hoarding instincts for a few hours while he or she helps keep them alive? Call me crazy but I think the dwarfs can bear it.

And if we end up with permanent dragon that we cant be sure wont go insane in his new body ?

DragonParadox · Jun 30, 2020

ninjafish said:
it's not a fucking meme plan.

its perfectly valid, and probably gonna work better than just shooting lightning at it .

Pretty much. I'm genuinely baffled by people calling it a meme plan. I suggested something like this in all sincerity months ago.

Mopman43 · Jun 30, 2020

I think the biggest advantage of the Dragon plan over a lightning tower is range- a lightning tower would protect Karag Nar and it's surroundings, but with the Dragon plan, we'll be able to interdict flyers anywhere in the Karak, or even at a distance.

I don't think the dispelling is much of a concern- most things, when they see a Dragon coming at them, aren't going to be thinking about dispels, they'll be thinking about battle magic. And the ones who know how the spell works would also probably know that dispelling wouldn't help them.

notanautomaton · Jun 30, 2020

SpaceSloth said:
And if we end up with permanent dragon that we cant be sure wont go insane in his new body ?

Better than an Elder Ice Dragon eating the Hold.

DragonParadox · Jun 30, 2020

SpaceSloth said:
And if we end up with permanent dragon that we cant be sure wont go insane in his new body ?

Given that we we would only use said altar to fight a definitely hostile dragon that is probably more powerful, we would have still come out ahead.

Parzival95 · Jun 30, 2020

Ahh, Versatile has taken the lead again. If it wins, I'm really hoping we see Mathilde's inner conflict on this decision.

(Ranald, tip the scales here my man. You know you want to see Mathilde go full batshit dragon alter)

How about that, huh? Do it for Ranald. He needs the entertainment, and the more Mathilde amuses him, the more he favors her.

ninjafish · Jun 30, 2020

Mopman43 said:
I think the biggest advantage of the Dragon plan over a lightning tower is range- a lightning tower would protect Karag Nar and it's surroundings, but with the Dragon plan, we'll be able to interdict flyers anywhere in the Karak, or even at a distance.

This.

Vote For

Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon

It's the plan most likely to actually work and with the greatest benefits!

NSMS · Jun 30, 2020

Ericwinter said:
The one problem I see with eventually turning into a dragon is whether it might interfere with plans for ascension into a goddess.

It's really not a meme plan. The memes came into it after the plan was made on fairly logical grounds and gained enough support that it actually seemed possible. Honestly, the "meme plan" comments seem more like a form of fear-mothering than anything.

Looking at the reasons a lot of people have given for their votes and having read the whole discussion, I can safely say that even if it's not a meme plan it certainly comes off as one to me. And even if I'm wrong and it's not, there have been enough not-so-subtle hints from BoneyM that the dragon plan won't be as clean or simple as 'use altar, instant dragon' that I couldn't support it anyway.

picklepikkl · Jun 30, 2020

Thought experiment for the people calling this a meme plan:

If it were a spell that summoned a dragon for an hour to fight for you, would it still be a meme plan to make an item to do this? If not, what makes this different?

People are memeing around it, as @Ericwinter said, but I don't think that's the same as it being a meme plan. Besides:

BoneyM said:
- The dragon task has a huge amount of latitude, and creativity is encouraged.

Can't say this isn't creative.

kfrar · Jun 30, 2020

NSMS said:
*looks at thread*

*sees meme plan winning*

...

If you think the plan is bad, please, demonstrate to the thread why it's actually bad - because as far as I'm concerned, the plan stands up well on its own merits.

kfrar said:
To break character for a moment -

We've been going back and forth since the update dropped trying to come up with a good dragon counter and we've been having a devil of a time with it because it's just hard to counter dragons. Some of the other plans involve single visible points of failure, some are just "use your artillery, but, like, better", all of them fail to address the problems posed by tunneling dragons when the dragon the prompted this task attacked by tunneling. Simply making another dragon to at least tie down the real one is honestly one of the best plans I've heard for how to deal with the thing.

Especially since we can use our Penthouse action to make an AA-tower on top of that, if we decide to include some more traditional defenses.

So if it's a meme but also arguably the best idea on the table, I don't think it's that absurd to go forward with it.

We're not just shitposting here, mate, so please don't act like we are.

PseudoLurker · Jun 30, 2020

[X] Plan Versatile

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

oH mE, Oh My,

Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal

Nascent Transhuman

Probably evil, unfortunately.

Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak

Terrible QM

Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator

I've got 99 quests, I've finished one

oH mE, Oh My,

Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak

I've got 99 quests, I've finished one

oH mE, Oh My,

Probably evil, unfortunately.

This isn't even my nerdiest form

Aspiring Encyclopedia