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It could give Mathilde some time to look at the Dragon transformation with her own Magesight, which will probably make it easier if we want to try to replicate it or something similar with Ulgu.

This also benefits all other romance routes because turning into a dragon is a universal charm point.
This is a distressingly good point and I must admit that the notion of being Aladdin in the leadup to "A Whole New World" except that instead of riding a flying carpet we're a whole goddamn shadow dragon has definite romantic appeal.

[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon
 
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[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon

I was sold when it was called Warhammer Pokemon, but when you think about it isn't it also something else? Get us three Knights with Attitude, call them the Dragon Rangers.

Letting us have a first hand look at what's going on with that spell might also help us understand the transformation mechanics of other spells; nothing like creating a cross-wind version, but there's surely stuff to be learned from it.
 
We initiated the second action, but let's drop that example if you want. There are plenty of others - would you tell that being a secret godmother of Emperor's only son has no narrative consequences as well?
Social actions definitely have narrative effects. My go-to is finding Kasmir and convincing him to work for Roswita. That definitely wouldn't have happened without that social action.

What they won't have is mechanical benefits for Mathilde, which is a different thing entirely.
 
You make a solid argument. I think I disagree with this though- going through something like that is going to create a bone-deep fear of re-occurance, and situations that echo it are going to be a lot harder to get through for someone with that background than others.
I absolutely agree that she was deeply affected by that. But I think she channeled it in a different direction. Note how she's suspicious of everybody she meets, especially the ones how are initially friendly. I think that when she was abandoned, she thought "My parents are total assholes, and I should never have loved them", and decided "I must be careful not to love someone like that again". In which she would be encourage by the Grey Order, because that works quite well for them.

"I will be abandoned if I ever fail" on the other hand is quite dangerous on a secret agent with mind affecting powers. You want those to feel safe with your organization, and to report failures on their own. Example: Back when she accidentally knocked out Bertram during the infiltration hubbub, she fessed up to it. There was the option not to, but that felt more like embarrassment (it was in her underwear) than fear of rejection.
Look, I'm not supporting Fight Dragon With Dragon, but if someone wants to vote for it because they think turning a person into a dragon in order to fight off the Karak's airborne enemies is awesome as shit I'm not gonna argue against it. By all means, chase plans because they're awesome as shit. That is totally valid. But if someone is under the misconception that we could use the transformation ourself to turn Mathilde into a dragon, so she can fly up to Karag Zilfin under her own power, dragon-sized book clutched in her forearm, to shyly look up at Sparklebutt through her nictitating membranes and ask if it would like to study together, having to lie close to it so they can both read from the book at the same time, only to have Sparklebutt absently stretch its wings and then settle one around her while she frantically tries to figure out what to do with her tail...

Sorry, lost my train of thought there. Point is, can't transform Mathilde. It's a no-go. If that's someone's end-goal, better to disappoint them now.
Look, I'm basically the OmegaHugger of Dragon Romance. Do you think logic, facts or reality will change my opinion on this?
Real talk, I know the transformation won't work on her. That's why I said viscious truths.
Also OmegaHugger had a great point there. Which... huh.

Also, man, this thread is moving to fast for me.
Thankfully I tend to only get those about five times a year.
I was a little worried there.
 
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If we really want to become a dragon for personal reasons, we just need to whip up some Ulgu battlemagic to make the world temporarily forget that we are not a dragon.

If it works on the sun, it can work for us.

The success and the spoils are the creation of a new city, a new community, in this location. We've pretty much excluded ourselves from the Karak Nar society by being all grey-wizard and mysterious - drinking with people doesn't count if we are invisible. We are pretty much excluded from most dwarf socializing by being not-dwarf.
But like, Mathilde hasn't gone full mysterious grey wizard because she's afraid to have genuine conversations with people, she does it because she finds it hilarious.

You can't convince me that the person who did this -
You nod thoughtfully. "Even then, you must be cautious," you say, in the tone of one imparting sage advice. "The walls of Mikalsdorf will be able to withstand cannonfire better than you might expect, as it is certain that the Vampire will rampire."

By the time your words register you're already out the door and halfway through the corridor, but her sigh is still clearly audible, and you can't keep yourself from giggling all the way to your next meeting.
isn't having fun with the mysterious benevolent authority bit. She stays on the sidelines because she can see such fun opportunities from there, but she's still willing to come down and actually talk to people when it's time for the next meeting of the romance book club. She may not be meeting her social and emotional needs in the same way the average modern person or you or I in particular do, but I feel like a far stronger and more directly evidenced case needs to be made to demonstrate that her needs aren't being met in her own way.

Honestly, I feel like a lot of your concerns may be drawing from Mathilde's nature as a quest protagonist more than anything else. Like, it is true that most of Mathilde's socials are more focused on the social target than on her, which I imagine contributes to the conception that Mathilde's own emotional needs may not be as well met, but that's a natural consequence of running a quest. If someone votes to interact with Kragg, they probably want to see what's up with Kragg, so that's what it makes more sense to write. Plus, the exact nature of Mathilde's motivations and concerns is likely kept somewhat vague since she's controlled by a horde of people with divergent desires and fears of their own. For example, Mathilde's romantic interest in those around her could not be put to text until the recent vote to gather the voters' own thoughts on the matter, despite the fact that, in universe, Mathilde's attraction to Johann and Panpan probably didn't spring up over night. The need to keep a character consistent with a capricious voterbase limits the degree to which their exact thoughts and feelings can be portrayed, compared to NPCs.

Through that lens, Mathilde's competent and slightly aloof, but still mischievous and caring attitude toward those around her makes perfect sense - it allows broad and at times contradictory thread sentiments like hug-the-spider-hivemind and we-shall-be-the-best-wizard and always-more-magical-science and troll-the-elector-countess to be applied simultaneously. It's not going to be a perfect fit for what any individual person wants Mathilde to be, and some people will find the fit to be better or worse than others, but I'm genuinely not sure how one would improve on Mathilde's basic portrayal.
 
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Honestly I can just imagine Belegar's reaction when we give our report and what he expected to be a simple task with her maybe whipping up some special ammo or something only for her to come to the meeting room and say "So I got us an Altar that will temporarily transform someone into a Dragon, since best solution to a dragon is our own dragon."
 
Honestly I can just imagine Belegar's reaction when we give our report and what he expected to be a simple task with her maybe whipping up some special ammo or something only for her to come to the meeting room and say "So I got us an Altar that will temporarily transform someone into a Dragon, since best solution to a dragon is our own dragon."
"We needed a new weapon. The forces of Order came together, pooling their resources and throwing aside old rivalries for the sake of the greater good. To fight dragons, we created dragons of our own. The Dracoknight program was born."
 
Honestly I can just imagine Belegar's reaction when we give our report and what he expected to be a simple task with her maybe whipping up some special ammo or something only for her to come to the meeting room and say "So I got us an Altar that will temporarily transform someone into a Dragon, since best solution to a dragon is our own dragon."
"Why didn't you introduce yourself as 'Hi, I'm Mathilde Weber, and I can turn people into dragons'?", going by past experiences.
 
She may not be meeting her social and emotional needs in the same way the average modern person or you or I in particular do, but I feel like a far stronger and more directly evidenced case needs to be made to demonstrate that her needs aren't being met in her own way.

That may be true, but if it is I guess what I'm hoping for is that more of it appears onscreen. (As it is, I think both your and my positions are feasible because we really don't have much evidence around how she feels socializing.) And that on-screen aspect, or rather the internal monologue accompanying it, is what I want to see.

I admit I do fixate on things occasionally- the gender balance of the Karak was something I was worried about that got solved with a few sentences the next update. But it matters to me that Mathilde is her own character, and not just our sockpuppet- in so far as the events and people that impacted her continue to matter. IE, the hugely traumatic events that occured aren't just something she's 'gotten better' about,
 
This thread weirds me out sometimes. Like, I went to sleep earlier while people were just getting started on suggesting we start turning people into dragons in one of the weirdest and frankly most insane plans I have ever heard—seriously, haven't we been warned that it's extremely dangerous even compared to other battle magic?—and wake up to an argument about how Mathilde is apparently a traumatized loner who needs more friends and less work. Which is... I mean, we have an entire half turn dedicated to pure social actions, and managed to make Kragg the Grim, Kragg the fucking Grim, Barely disapprove of us, and by this point it's probably less disapproving us, and more the world as a whole for making us born a human instead of a dwarf.
*High Elves awkwardly: We already have dragons guys.
Yeah, but can you turn people into them?
Anyways, a few of the more recent arguments have convinced me, if only so we can learn something spectacular from the failure. Also, inb4 we criticize on the creation roll and somehow figure out a spell to create a full Emperor dragon.

[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon
 
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[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon
Or second choice
[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon+Panpan-AV
 
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Yeah, but can you turn people into them?
Anyways, a few of the more recent arguments have convinced me, if only so we can learn something spectacular from the failure. Also, inb4 we criticize on the creation roll and somehow figure out a spell to create a full Emperor dragon.

We pay people money to do dangerous things all the time, including fighting dragons if it comes to it. The dangers of the Transformation are certainly no worse than the dangers of standing behind a canon trying to shoot a Emperor dragon.
 
That may be true, but if it is I guess what I'm hoping for is that more of it appears onscreen. (As it is, I think both your and my positions are feasible because we really don't have much evidence around how she feels socializing.) And that on-screen aspect, or rather the internal monologue accompanying it, is what I want to see.

I admit I do fixate on things occasionally- the gender balance of the Karak was something I was worried about that got solved with a few sentences the next update. But it matters to me that Mathilde is her own character, and not just our sockpuppet- in so far as the events and people that impacted her continue to matter. IE, the hugely traumatic events that occured aren't just something she's 'gotten better' about,
How about a Mathilde social action? Just Mathilde relaxing and doing something fun. I don't know if Boney is up for it (they need an idea what to write, after all), and you have to convince the thread, but it would be an option.
 
How about a Mathilde social action? Just Mathilde relaxing and doing something fun. I don't know if Boney is up for it (they need an idea what to write, after all), and you have to convince the thread, but it would be an option.
It would be cool to have a social action of Mathilde in the Temple of the Gambler she opened, socializing with the people of Karag Nar and just getting a sense of what life is like among the common Undumgi. I'd vote for that.
Yeah, but can you turn people into them?
Anyways, a few of the more recent arguments have convinced me, if only so we can learn something spectacular from the failure. Also, inb4 we criticize on the creation roll and somehow figure out a spell to create a full Emperor dragon.
You said you were convinced but you don't seem to have, uh, voted.
 
[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon

I think that it will require a non-Dwarf non-Wizard as an agent, but that's fine, and in fact a perfect statement for Karak Eight Peaks to make: K8P, between the Undumgi and the Halflings, is unique among Dwarven holds in its inclusion of non-Dwarven citizens.

...There has to be a way for Sir Soizic's riff on the Arthurian legend to have some kind of demented crossover with Saint George and the Dragon.
He shakes his head. "Are there any other apocalypse weapons you've been sitting on that you want to share with me?"

You think of the Aethyric Vitae, of the Liber Mortis, of the Second Secret of Dhar. "None ready for deployment," you hedge.

He stares at you, realizes you aren't joking, and shakes his head. "Zhufokri," he says, stands, and leaves.

"Dawi," you say with a sigh, gathering up your skull.
I can't wait for us to present this brainstorm to him. "One of my other apocalypse weapons is now ready for deployment."
 
But it matters to me that Mathilde is her own character, and not just our sockpuppet- in so far as the events and people that impacted her continue to matter.
I think Mathilde really is our character, though, if that makes sense; not an insincere sockpuppet, but a genuine representation of the playerbase. If she was just an NPC that we told to do things, that'd really change a lot of things about how I view the quest, and I don't think it'd be in ways that I would enjoy.
 
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