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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[ ] Plan: Skavenslayer
[X] Plan: Skavenslayer with Less Vague Artillery
[X] Plan Versatile
 
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chocolote12 said:
It's not really. Like, it'll fulfill the duty pretty well, but it mainly is an excuse to give the Eye an AA capacity, as far as at least I'm concerned. A swarm of weak wyverns carrying orcs who think too highly of themselves worry me a lot more than our romantic interest.
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Wyverns aren't swarms. They're the mounts of warbosses and the like. Even in the case of multiple wyverns, spells that focus on single targets are still way better. A weak AoE spell would instead only result in two wyverns/dragons/whatever brushing it off rather than just one.
 
picklepikkl said:
Yeah, I think I like this solution best for that reason. The earlier version wasn't so bad, because none of the spells were battle magic, but once we start playing with battle magic we should stick to "extrapolations on a theme" if we want things to go well. This way we have "fuck this thing in particular" for big gribblies and "fuck all y'all" for multiple smaller ones.

Also, since we're no longer using magic to influence luck, it's a tower Mathilde could theoretically operate without going against her religion.
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Speaking of luck manipulation, I'm kinda wondering why we put the Gambler on the tower instead of, say, anything else we are doing like the AV research or lessons. Does Tower building even get rolls like that?
 
Do you think that as a mage advisor we could find a way to grow the wutroth (or the ironbark? I don't know how the dwarfs in this quest call it) faster and easier?
Such a strategic resource which becomes abundant would be marvelous for the dwarfs and incidentally the empire.
(the face of the carpenters guild leader when it is announced could be a funny omake)
 
Carcer said:
Do you think that as a mage advisor we could find a way to grow the wutroth (or the ironbark? I don't know how the dwarfs in this quest call it) faster and easier?
Such a strategic resource which becomes abundant would be marvelous for the dwarfs and incidentally the empire.
(the face of the carpenters guild leader when it is announced could be a funny omake)
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Mathilde knows nothing about gardening. That's a Panoramia project.
 
My proposed plan now has staff turning lessons.

Essentially it features an Azyr Altar as a mobile anti-air artillery weapon, but also collaborates with a Light Wizard to maybe adapt it specifically against Ice Dragons and tries to put runes on the whole thing.
 
Carcer said:
Do you think that as a mage advisor we could find a way to grow the wutroth (or the ironbark? I don't know how the dwarfs in this quest call it) faster and easier?
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It's been discussed.
BoneyM said:
Probably not. Dwarves have been trying and failing to restore their Wutroth groves for millennia. Panoramia might have an advantage, but the trees grow extremely slow and part of their growth cycle is having their outer bark worn smooth by high-altitude winds, so it can't be accelerated. So it would take her entire life to try once.
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chocolote12 said:
It's not really. Like, it'll fulfill the duty pretty well, but it mainly is an excuse to give the Eye an AA capacity, as far as at least I'm concerned. A swarm of weak wyverns carrying orcs who think too highly of themselves worry me a lot more than our romantic interest.
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Same. My belief in the likelihood of a conflict with the Ice Dragon is low. "A squad of wyverns," on the other hand, was something that had us all biting our nails during Waaagh Birdmuncha.

We should give Belegar something that fits the bill at dealing with the Ice Dragon, no question about that, but we shouldn't neglect to factor in other scenarios that are more likely to come up. That's why I like Plan Versatile: we have the spell people suggested would be better at dealing with the Ice Dragon (thank you @Andres110 for pointing out that we don't need to worry about miscasts from the tower) and a spell for dealing with grouped weaker fliers. It's like an anti-aircraft emplacement with both SAM and autocannons.
Ericwinter said:
Speaking of luck manipulation, I'm kinda wondering why we put the Gambler on the tower instead of, say, anything else we are doing like the AV research or lessons. Does Tower building even get rolls like that?
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My thinking is that there will be rolls for things like "what Celestial Wizards are available who can help us out" (especially if we're trying to fit a Battle Magic spell that only a few will be able to cast) and "are they willing to be useful and not insufferable gits". Even if we're not doing the actual spellcasting, this plan lives or dies by the availability of the resources it's trying to use, so having Ranald's blessing on that just seems great.

In contrast, we've done all the work for AV. Gambler isn't gonna improve the results of what AV can do, those are already determined by its nature. The most Gambler might be able to do on that task, I feel, is "give us an advantage in persuading people," and I don't actually think we need that when we start a conversation with "So, how would you like to use Ancestor Runes on your Anvils as much as you want?"
 
picklepikkl said:
My thinking is that there will be rolls for things like "what Celestial Wizards are available who can help us out" (especially if we're trying to fit a Battle Magic spell that only a few will be able to cast) and "are they willing to be useful and not insufferable gits". Even if we're not doing the actual spellcasting, this plan lives or dies by the availability of the resources it's trying to use, so having Ranald's blessing on that just seems great.

In contrast, we've done all the work for AV. Gambler isn't gonna improve the results of what AV can do, those are already determined by its nature. The most Gambler might be able to do on that task, I feel, is "give us an advantage in persuading people," and I don't actually think we need that when we start a conversation with "So, how would you like to use Ancestor Runes on your Anvils as much as you want?"
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Fair enough. I guess I just worry about wasting such a useful thing, since there have been a few where we put the Gambler and ended up with no roll, IIRC.
 
[] Plan: Skavenslayer
[] Plan: Skavenslayer with Less Vague Artillery
[] Plan Versatile
[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon
 
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picklepikkl said:
Same. My belief in the likelihood of a conflict with the Ice Dragon is low. "A squad of wyverns," on the other hand, was something that had us all biting our nails during Waaagh Birdmuncha.

We should give Belegar something that fits the bill at dealing with the Ice Dragon, no question about that, but we shouldn't neglect to factor in other scenarios that are more likely to come up. That's why I like Plan Versatile: we have the spell people suggested would be better at dealing with the Ice Dragon (thank you @Andres110 for pointing out that we don't need to worry about miscasts from the tower) and a spell for dealing with grouped weaker fliers. It's like an anti-aircraft emplacement with both SAM and autocannons.
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Wyverns don't come in squads, though. That's not their role in an orc army. Like, remember the Empire trailer for TWW? One wyvern, ridden by the warboss. They fill the same niche as dragons and griffons and are as numerous in orc armies. The correct configuration for dealing with wyverns is the same as what you'd want for dealing with dragons. For dragons, you want to focus entirely on killing big single targets, and the same goes for wyverns. A squad of wyverns will ignore Lightning Storm just as easily as one wyvern or one dragon.

It's like, if you go up against a tank, you use a rocket launcher. If you go up against a different model of tank, you still use a rocket launcher. If you go up against multiple of those second type of tank, you use a rocket launcher (or better yet, get more rocket launchers); you don't swap out for a machine gun.
 
[X] Plan: Skavenslayer with Less Vague Artillery
[X] Plan Versatile

to be honest I'm not really pushed on what tower we are getting.

its not like its going to be the last one we build...
 
Andres110 said:
Wyverns don't come in squads, though. That's not their role in an orc army. Like, remember the Empire trailer for TWW? One wyvern, ridden by the warboss. They fill the same niche as dragons and griffons and are as numerous in orc armies. The correct configuration for dealing with wyverns is the same as what you'd want for dealing with dragons. For dragons, you want to focus entirely on killing big single targets, and the same goes for wyverns. A squad of wyverns will ignore Lightning Storm just as easily as one wyvern or one dragon.

It's like, if you go up against a tank, you use a rocket launcher. If you go up against a different model of tank, you still use a rocket launcher. If you go up against multiple of those second type of tank, you use a rocket launcher (or better yet, get more rocket launchers); you don't swap out for a machine gun.
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If that's the role Wyverns serve, then we'll hit them with the one-big-thing option. But there are aerial foes that do come in swarms, and we'll be prepared for those too.
 
chocolote12 said:
If that's the role Wyverns serve, then we'll hit them with the one-big-thing option. But there are aerial foes that do come in swarms, and we'll be prepared for those too.
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Belegar's not asking for that though. He wants an anti-dragon tower, and I don't think it's right to make him pay favours for something he hasn't asked for.
 
so i just noticed.

if the Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary includes all of the following:

Basic Written Queekish: grammar, signs, common words (TIMELESS)
Low Queekish, the common tongue of the Skaven (TIMELESS)
Military lexicon of written Queekish (TIMELESS)
Medical lexicon of written Queekish (TIMELESS)
Technical lexicon of written Queekish (TIMELESS)

then we will be through all of the current papers on Skaven. at least until we get through some more Skaven loot.

....

Max must be soooo happy.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
so i just noticed.

if the Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary includes all of the following:

Basic Written Queekish: grammar, signs, common words (TIMELESS)
Low Queekish, the common tongue of the Skaven (TIMELESS)
Military lexicon of written Queekish (TIMELESS)
Medical lexicon of written Queekish (TIMELESS)
Technical lexicon of written Queekish (TIMELESS)

then we will be through all of the current papers on Skaven. at least until we get through some more Skaven loot.

....

Max must be soooo happy.
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Hell, we'll be almost completely done with papers altogether. The We book, a couple of relatively useless orc papers, and then AV are the only other things left. Of course, once we start doing some of our other research options that will change, but it's nice to see the list shrinking.
 
Angelform said:
It is an Emperor Dragon. Nothing will be a huge advantage. These things kill armies. They sink battle fleets and level fortresses.
You want an actual counter? You tell Kragg he has a decade to make a 25 favour grade weapon, armour and talisman all tailor made for fighting dragons.

Urge to make an airship-portable Battle Tower… rising.

[X] Plan: Skavenslayer with Artillery
You know what? Yeah, we have done the doom tower thing. This is a softball assignment. We should use it as an opportunity to experiment and branch out.
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Did you bother to read my entire post or are you just shitposting?

I mean I straight up say that if we want to kill the thing we need to use Pit of Shades with Rune Lord support to make sure we do not get countered and that the dragon does not cast speed of light. We really are not going to get a better shot at killing the thing then that, so I am unsure why you are calling me out.
 
Just as a visible refresher, here's the current heart of my "Skaven Knowledge Missile Launcher" plan:

-[V] Collaborate on an anti-air artillery vehicle that can be used by non-wizards and specializes against dragons and ice dragons in particular.
  • Request Light Wizard(s) to identify weaknesses of Ice Dragons.
  • Request a Celestial Wizard(s) for the main enchantments.
  • Request Runemaster(s) to add any helpful runework.
  • Request Dwarf Engineer(s) to aid in basic vehicular mobility.
  • Emphasize the potentially available budget and the results of the last such collaboration while headhunting for collaborators.
  • Suggest the spells Lightning Storm, Urannon's Thunderbolt, Curse and Second Portent of Amul and the Runes of Accuracy and Flakksson's Seeking during brainstorming.
--[V] COIN: The Gambler

What do you all think? Pros/cons compared to other non-tower-based plans?
 
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picklepikkl said:
In contrast, we've done all the work for AV. Gambler isn't gonna improve the results of what AV can do, those are already determined by its nature. The most Gambler might be able to do on that task, I feel, is "give us an advantage in persuading people," and I don't actually think we need that when we start a conversation with "So, how would you like to use Ancestor Runes on your Anvils as much as you want?"
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If it's determined by dice roll, then I think it could be needed. Failing results could vary anywhere from "I'm/we're too busy, find somebody else" to "You DARE blaspheme against the traditions of Thungni? I would strike you down where you stand were it not for your status. Cease this research of yours, or know that you have earned my grudge."
 
picklepikkl said:
Also, since we're no longer using magic to influence luck, it's a tower Mathilde could theoretically operate without going against her religion.
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I feel like half of the point of the Ranaldian Faith is to find ever more sneakier and more creative ways to stick a thumb on the scales of fortune. It's almost the entire function of Ranald's Coin, for example. Also, we made a ton of money at one point by teaching everyone that the house always wins. I feel like a giant tower that goes "fuck you" to someone's luck sounds like it's right up Ranald's alley.
 
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