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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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With @Angelform having put the idea in my head, if Boney lets us commit our resources to building an anti-dragon tower via the Penthouse action, I'd switch to something like this:

[] Plan: Skaven Knowledge Bomb v2
-[] MAX: Receive dictation.
-[] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures
-[] DUCK: Spend time with Hubert to try to ensure a good relationship between him and magic, and between him and his identity as a Wizard.
-[] EIC: Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires.
-[] Create artillery emplacements with appropriate runic augmentation to supplement the new tower
--[] Suggested runes: Rune of Accuracy/Flakksson's Rune of Seeking for precision, Rune of Penetrating for damage
-[] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmith in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
-[] Dictate papers:
--[] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
--[] Insight on Skaven tactics and strategy
-[] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (Staff Making, 1 College Favour)
-[] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar
--[] Capable of the spells Lightning Storm for direct damage, Curse for debuffing hard targets, and Second Portent of Amul to buff gunnery (see above)
--[] COIN: The Gambler
-[] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery

Which is basically plan Skavenslayer swapped around a bit.
 
picklepikkl said:
With @Angelform having put the idea in my head, if Boney lets us commit our resources to building an anti-dragon tower via the Penthouse action, I'd switch to something like this:

[] Plan: Skaven Knowledge Bomb v2
-[] MAX: Receive dictation.
-[] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures
-[] DUCK: Spend time with Hubert to try to ensure a good relationship between him and magic, and between him and his identity as a Wizard.
-[] EIC: Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires.
-[] Create artillery emplacements with appropriate runic augmentation to supplement the new tower
--[] Suggested runes: Rune of Accuracy/Flakksson's Rune of Seeking for precision, Rune of Penetrating for damage
-[] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmith in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
-[] Dictate papers:
--[] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
--[] Insight on Skaven tactics and strategy
-[] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (Staff Making, 1 College Favour)
-[] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar
--[] Capable of the spells Lightning Storm for direct damage, Curse for debuffing hard targets, and Second Portent of Amul to buff gunnery (see above)
--[] COIN: The Gambler
-[] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery

Which is basically plan Skavenslayer swapped around a bit.
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any chance you would add college favour to the lessons to add the two spells? if we are getting lessons anyways...
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
any chance you would add college favour to the lessons to add the two spells? if we are spending the ap anyways...
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I don't think we can do that.
BoneyM said:
[*] Plan Redshirt v5 (Different Max Action)
-[*] COIN: Gambler
-[-] MAX: Allow him to spend his time on patrol with the gyrocopters so he can finally get to shoot something from one. (NEW)
-[-] JOHANN: Learn a skill: Pugilism, from a trainer.
-[*] DUCK: Work with Panoramia to see if your planned shadow murder tower could also come in handy for the crops in the East Valley.
-[-] EIC: Have the EIC assist with Princess Edda's search for weavers.
-[-] WE: Hire a Priest of Esmerelda to teach the We.
-[*] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there:
--[*] Enchanting
--[*] Attempt to Learn Multiple Spells
---[*] Apply Coin
-[*] Investigate the possibility of whether it could be fired without you [tricky; if selected and successful, paranoia will be ramped up automatically]
--[*] Spend 10 College Favor to entice Algard to help build the tower.
-[*] Investigate the possibility of somehow amplifying the Tower with Dwarven runecraft
-[-] OVERWORK: Seek to establish an in-depth understanding of the Skaven as an individual.
-[*] PENTHOUSE: Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -75gc for 3 rooms.
-[-] SERENITY: Write a paper on the suite of advanced zombie empowerment and control spells used by Alkharad and his disciples.
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You'll note that there are five personal actions here with overwork: Algard help, runecraft help, the overwork on Qrech, and two separate Grey College actions. You can't get spells and classes on the same action.
 
@picklepikkl The issue I have with your projects is that they seem kind of anemic. I like the Canon Tower that's buffed with Azyr to curse the target and buff the crews, tho that'd need human artillery probably.

Something that can absolutely one-shot something would be a Purple Sun, and big beasties are weak exactly in the save they need to make against that, I.e. Dodge!.

Why no do this:
- Tower of Death
-- Build a massive Death tower to fuel two spells: Purple Sun and boosted Winds of Death.
-- Ask the Runelords to make it hard for the tower to be counter spelled and, if possibles, harder for dragons to resist WoD.

Winds of Death ignores toughness and armor and is an AoE, so you have to resist it or die take damage. Purple Sun you also can't tough it out, you have to dodge or die.

Should allow for massive sweeping of the skies, and maybe fit into Penthouse actions.
 
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[X] Plan: Skaven Knowledge Bomb
[X] Plan: Skavenslayer with Less Vague Artillery
[X] Plan Versatile
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
@picklepikkl The issue I have with your projects is that they seem kind of anemic. I like the Canon Tower that's buffed with Azyr to curse the target and buff the crews, tho that'd need human artillery probably.

Something that can absolutely one-shot something would be a Purple Sun, and big beasties are weak exactly in the save they need to make against that, I.e. Dodge!.

Why no do this:
- Tower of Death
-- Build a massive Death tower to fuel two spells: Purple Sun and boosted Winds of Death.
-- Ask the Runelords to make it hard for the tower to be counter spelled.

Winds of Death ignores toughness and armor and is an AoE, so you have to resist it or die. Purple Sun you also can't tough it out, you have to dodge or die.

Should allow for massive sweeping of the skies, and maybe fit into Penthouse actions.
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The Hysh dragon would have Speed of Light though, wouldn't it? And that would boost its dodge through the roof? I'm also not sure the Runelords could insulate a battle-magic tower against being counterspelled, and I don't want to throw battle-magic around when it might be forced to miscast by an enemy spellcaster.

Gah, I hate write-ins.
 
picklepikkl said:
The Hysh dragon would have Speed of Light though, wouldn't it? And that would boost its dodge through the roof? I'm also not sure the Runelords could insulate a battle-magic tower against being counterspelled, and I don't want to throw battle-magic around when it might be forced to miscast by an enemy spellcaster.

Gah, I hate write-ins.
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I kind of wonder if it would have been better to write in a research action on dragons and other flying threats.

what are the strong and weak against, known spells they use, what is the 'typical' way an army or fortress deals with big, armoured flyers etc etc.
 
OK, I need to step away from my computer for a while, and I suspect Boney is also AFK and so can't answer the rules questions, so here's what I'm going to do: I'm gonna post both versions of my plan with Xs in them. I encourage people supporting the original version of the plan to vote for V2 as well. Then, if BoneyM OKs the idea behind v2, we can drop our votes for the original, and if not, we can drop our votes for v2. EDIT: I NO LONGER SUPPORT THESE PLANS AND I ENCOURAGE YOU TO VOTE FOR SOMETHING ELSE, I PERSONALLY AM VOTING FOR PLAN VERSATILE (also v2 was ruled illegal by Boney)

[X] Plan: Skaven Knowledge Bomb
-[X] MAX: Receive dictation.
-[X] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures
-[X] DUCK: Spend time with Hubert to try to ensure a good relationship between him and magic, and between him and his identity as a Wizard.
-[X] EIC: Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires.
-[X] Build a new tower with anti-dragon capabilities
--[X] Capable of the spells Lightning Storm for direct damage, Curse for debuffing hard targets, and Second Portent of Amul to buff gunnery (see below)
--[X] COIN: The Gambler
-[X] Create artillery emplacements with appropriate runic augmentation to supplement the new tower
--[X] Suggested runes: Rune of Accuracy/Flakksson's Rune of Seeking for precision, Rune of Penetrating for damage
-[X] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmith in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
-[X] Dictate papers:
--[X] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
--[X] Insight on Skaven tactics and strategy
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery

[X] Plan: Skaven Knowledge Bomb v2
-[X] MAX: Receive dictation.
-[X] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures
-[X] DUCK: Spend time with Hubert to try to ensure a good relationship between him and magic, and between him and his identity as a Wizard.
-[X] EIC: Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires.
-[X] Create artillery emplacements with appropriate runic augmentation to supplement the new tower
--[X] Suggested runes: Rune of Accuracy/Flakksson's Rune of Seeking for precision, Rune of Penetrating for damage
-[X] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmith in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
-[X] Dictate papers:
--[X] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
--[X] Insight on Skaven tactics and strategy
-[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (Staff Making, 1 College Favour)
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar
--[X] Capable of the spells Lightning Storm for direct damage, Curse for debuffing hard targets, and Second Portent of Amul to buff gunnery (see above)
--[X] COIN: The Gambler
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery

I'm also going to throw an approval vote on @LightLan's plan:

[X] Plan Skavenslayer
 
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@Everyone: Why are we trying to come up with something on our lonesome. Not only is dragon slaying very much not Mathilde's specialty, she also is a Loremaster. Which implies that part of her job is digging through lore.

Sure we can come up with the coolest AA spell we know from the splatbooks and slap it onto a tower or item. But remember all the additional ideas Algard added to the Eye of Gazul (solely because of lucky rolls iirc)?
What we should be doing is going to at least two College libraries and see what they have on dragon slaying, talk to the Light Colleges about how there's an Ice Dragon close to King Belegar's kingdom that, while currently not attacking anyone, still needs to have contingencies prepared against, talk to the Celestial College about the best single target anti-air solutions available if a Wizard isn't (citing an official request from King Belegar for the why we need that), and use the ensuing time to come up with something truly interesting (on the level of the Eye of Gazul) as players, so that good rolls improve on that instead of resulting in it.

Also I'd rather have it be a concealable item than something that an elder and intelligent dragon can clearly see being built. Just remember how in the real world Cold War even developing defense mechanisms against nukes was considered an escalation at some point.

Edit: By concealable I mean something like a large siege weapon that can be stored in a Karag, not like a dagger that can be kept in one's sleeve.

TalonofAnathrax said:
who can see the future
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How does Hysh see the future?
BoneyM said:
My mistake, the charsheet list wasn't updated. The Chaos Dwarf book is completely translated. Correcting now.
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Was this book written in Low Queekish for some reason or does this imply that we have at least enough knowledge of the Moulder dialect to translate an anatomy book with pictures into something readable and worthwhile?
Asheram said:
Or that Thorgrim seems to be keen on kicking down the gates of the Skaven in an all-out war? Plenty of grudges that can get solved that way.
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I just thought of something. Our dictionary will probably create more Grudges than it solves. At least to start with. Because the Dwarves will read all kinds of accounts of sabotage that looked like accidents, disappeared Dwarves that actually fell to Skaven, Skaven assisting other enemies of the Dwarves, Dwarven secrets stolen by Skaven, Dwarves that were presumed "merely" eaten actually having been enslaved, subjected to cruel experiments, or worse and so on and so forth ad nauseam.
Asheram said:
Written Queekish is absolute though, it's mandated from up high and separate from the spoken versions (Except maybe High Queekish.)
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That's on the one hand not what the Karaz-a-Karak interlude seems to imply (with at least two letter systems) and on the other hand kind of unrealistic in a world of Eshin and erotica writers belonging to a millenia old civilization that is known for short average life spans.
 
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I kinda want to see if Gotri can help ups make a flag canon. Not a rapid fire gun, I'm not sure the dwarfs can pull that off. But a canon in a balanced mounting (something like a swivel mount, just for much bigger guns) should be possible, and firing grapeshot would be a decent substitute at close range (pretty much all flying beasties have to actually get close. The dragon doesn't but I can't imagine flight is helpful for pulling out the nasty magic).
 
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I have a better idea for an anti-Dragon system.

[] Other (write-in; material and favour costs will be paid by Belegar)
-[] Attempt to establish diplomatic relations with the Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin with the ultimate goal of forming a mutual defense pact. The ultimate defense against a marauding dragon is a bigger badder dragon, right?

Accomplishes like four goals at once. Removes the immediate threat of scary dragon, check. Furthers Mathilde's romantic fantasies, check. Indulges our own interest in the fuckhueg dragon, check. And further reinforces our image of being too crazy to ever predict:
BoneyM said:
- The dragon task has a huge amount of latitude, and creativity is encouraged.
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Creativity double fucking check.
 
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picklepikkl said:
The Hysh dragon would have Speed of Light though, wouldn't it? And that would boost its dodge through the roof? I'm also not sure the Runelords could insulate a battle-magic tower against being counterspelled, and I don't want to throw battle-magic around when it might be forced to miscast by an enemy spellcaster.

Gah, I hate write-ins.
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Our own guys could dispel it's SoL, we are the Wizard Detatchment to the Dwarf Faction, dispelling is our business.

I don't think counterspells on bound spells are catastrophic?

One of the simples things would then be to essentially do Oh Dear on the Death Tower, so if things get bungled up one can hit a button and prevent the miscast.

Winds of Death doesn't actually allow a save, so anything caught in the enormous area would take automatic damage.

Overall, while the Ice dragon is a tricky opponent due SoL and healing, he too is vulnerable to being dispelled, and any other flier is massively vulnerable to either getting ganked by the blackhole tower or attrition end away in short order by WoD, which incidentally is by far and wide the best horde clearer, including aerial ones.

The nice thing with Purple Sun is that we only need to hit once, and by aiming up we prevent the biggest downside of the spell: chewing up your own army.
 
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[X] Plan: Skaven Knowledge Bomb

[x] Attempt to establish diplomatic relations with the Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin with the ultimate goal of forming a mutual defense pact. The ultimate defense against a marauding dragon is a bigger badder
dragon, right?

We should talk to Deathfang about things dragons like. And then bring those things to Frosty.
 
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Rafin said:
Was this book written in Low Queekish for some reason or does this imply that we have at least enough knowledge of the Moulder dialect to translate an anatomy book with pictures into something readable and worthwhile?
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No, but we managed to get nearly the entire written Skaven language. (except magical vocabulary)

For spoken language we only have Low Queekish.
Our grasp of the written one is much better.
 
Vebyast said:
I have a better idea for an anti-Dragon system.

[] Other (write-in; material and favour costs will be paid by Belegar)
-[] Attempt to establish diplomatic relations with the Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin with the ultimate goal of forming a mutual defense pact. The ultimate defense against a marauding dragon is a bigger badder dragon, right?

Accomplishes like four goals at once. Removes the immediate threat of scary dragon, check. Furthers Mathilde's romantic fantasies, check. Indulges our own interest in the fuckhueg dragon, check. And further reinforces our image of being too crazy to ever predict:
Creativity double fucking check.
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While I fully approve of more time with the dragon, I rather think it misses the point. I'm pretty sure Belegar wants anti-dragon weapon if the one already here starts screwing around. I somehow think that "I asked him to beat himself up if he does something bad" will not leave him very impressed (though given our track record, he'd be troubled by the idea it will actually work).
 
Rafin said:
That's on the one hand not what the Karaz-a-Karak interlude seems to imply (with at least two letter systems) and on the other hand kind of unrealistic in a world of Eshin and erotica writers belonging to a millenia old civilization that is known for short average life spans.
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I can only answer in hypotheticals to this.
1. The Skaven in question incorporates slang and localisms in informal communication.
2. The communication was encoded.
3. While official written communication is to be made in Queekish on pain of death, it's possible that there exists more informal written versions that mirror the local Clan language.
4. The communication wasn't actually in Queekish
 
BurnNote said:
While I fully approve of more time with the dragon, I rather think it misses the point. I'm pretty sure Belegar wants anti-dragon weapon if the one already here starts screwing around. I somehow think that "I asked him to beat himself up if he does something bad" will not leave him very impressed (though given our track record, he'd be troubled by the idea it will actually work).
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I feel like I want to at least attempt a diplomatic approach to the problem of the big scary dragon. Address the root cause (the dragon might attack us), as it were, rather than attempting to paper over the symptoms (there's a dragon attacking us). A diplomatic approach has enough other benefits that I suspect we'll want to pursue it in parallel to any kind of anti-dragon weaponry anyway.
 
Vebyast said:
I feel like I want to at least attempt a diplomatic approach to the problem of the big scary dragon. Address the root cause (the dragon might attack us), as it were, rather than attempting to paper over the symptoms (there's a dragon attacking us). A diplomatic approach has enough other benefits that I suspect we'll want to pursue it in parallel to any kind of anti-dragon weaponry anyway.
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I don't think you'll find anyone here to disagree with you. But we got our Ork-murdering tower due to Orks being in the neighborhood, so Belegar gets his Dragon-murdering tower. A direct order is a direct order.
 
Anyway, what I am proposing is that instead of the Tower vote we do the following:

-[] Meet with high ranking Light, Amethyst and Celestial Wizards to propose a collaboration on a "thing on wheels" designed to shoot Ice Dragons (among other dragons and large airborne things) out of the sky and is usable by non-wizards. Emphasize the potentially available budget and the results of the last such collaboration.

This way, instead of just citing spells we focus on the usability. Who we get to collaborate with us would be up to the dice. If we don't like the collaborators we do the same as we did with the first We teacher and cry over a wasted action.

Edit: Not to mention that we have a trait for exactly this kind of stuff.
 
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