Lex Sedet In Vertice: A Supervillain in the DCU CK2 quest

HavocOrder0999 · Mar 5, 2020

Just my thoughts on the exosuits and selling it versus keeping it a secret for fear of theft:

So suppose a criminal somehow does steal an exosuit. Their immediate thought should be: "Now what?" How much does it cost to repair and maintain these suits? One good fight and its just junk to them. How would a criminal realistically acquire all the components and not bankrupt themselves, not be added to some watch list, or avoid the issue that exotic components are hard to come by in civilian markets? How easy would it be for them to pilot it and not immediately make a mistake and blow something up and have every law enforcement agency hunt them down. Their life as an ordinary civilian is basically over, they've pretty much committed grand theft, possession of military grade weaponry, and terror charges all in one go depending on how a prosecutor can justify the scenario.

How would they hide the suit? Its 8 and a half feet tall if I recall. Imagine someone in Gotham acquires a suit, tries to hide it, and when they come back its just the frame and someone sold off the parts for scrap. How heavy are these suits for that matter? Be a bit hard to drag them everywhere, also assuming it generates noise while active, maybe a rumble with each step, good luck sneaking it in and out of your apartment. How would they even use it practically? It be like trying to commit a armed robbery with a Ferrari or a tank, skewed priorities or pure overkill.

The only individuals or organizations that would want to steal these suits, would already have some idea of how to build their own, and I don't think they'd steal from a group with exosuits in the first place with all the security they'd probably have to defeat (either us or a military base for example) just to get their hands on one suit (that we could probably shoot and damage before they get away). They'd probably try to hack our servers for blueprints rather than take an actual fully assembled model (trying to find the "keys" when the activation sequence can be a biolock or retinal scanner keyed to authorized personnel only). Even if they could get it to work, lot of super powered criminals would not want an exosuit if it interferes with their abilities, if anything they'd hand it off to a henchman for a one time distraction for the heroes and be done with it after that.

Better to be the first in the market and continually improve than to be miss the chance and find it saturated later on. We did cell phones and we keep competitors out with our superior models, so why can't we do the same with the exosuits? Even with the US working on S.T.R.I.P.E. they still need 3 successes and have high DCs, enough time for us to hopefully get our models out and maybe go through a round or two of improvements. We could even consult with them, and just work on models that complement each other rather than both go for the same design, its how the real markets work, one company or country can't do everything, just a few select things better than their neighbors that make the cost of directly competing too great, but trade to make up for that.

Overall, the exosuits aren't a holy grail to be secreted away, they are a commodity that we know other groups are actively working on for their own entry into the market, and we need to leave a lasting impression on the world right now. Just my own thoughts shaped by analysis of real world trends and some common sense (applied to Kryptonite powered exosuits that we're going to show off next to kiosks with cell phones).

ThatGuyWithIdeas · Mar 6, 2020

[X] Plan Not Glamorous, But Effective

Simon_Jester · Mar 6, 2020

KnowledgeKing said:
Lex has never given the gov't or other bodies like that his tech. And yet he remains above SIvana. In fact, Lex DOES hoard his tech and yet remains influential so...

He doesn't hoard ALL his tech, though. That's the thing. If he didn't sell anything significant, or anything superior to what competitors provide, he wouldn't have that influence. He's valuable to existing power structures because his company is the goose that lays the golden eggs. He may keep the diamond-studded platinum eggs for himself, but that doesn't mean axiomatically hoarding all of the everything.

I mean, we agreed just now to develop new weapons for DOMA. Did you vote against that?

As for Reed Richards is useless...we're selling our tech to make lives better, which is what that refers to. We SHOULD NOT sell super weapons though? Would you sell AMAZO to people?

There's a pretty big gap between these exosuits and AMAZO. Don't strawman me.

KnowledgeKing said:
And what happens when we go after Superman and the US Gov't disagrees? And our own tech is turned on us? Or if someone frames Lex for a crime? Or if Lex, does villainous actions like the villain he is? You still for giving our possible enemies our tech?

Well, obviously if we have no influence with the government and are easily replaceable because we don't give them anything they couldn't get elsewhere, we're screwed in those situations.

But the sheer paranoia level at work here is going to cripple us in the long run. It effectively forbids us from allying with anyone, because any decision we make that strengthens anyone else might mean strengthening a "possible enemy." The way you make allies is by giving them strength they can't have without you.

Here's one, what if someone just hacks or robs the US Gov't? And now they have our tech? Here's a kicker, what if they reverse engineer it and make it better? Or worse, find a way to counter it or infect it, rendering us useless?Then what?

You seem to have this weird mental model where our tech is static and unchanging and eternally the best if we hoard it... but where it becomes easy to upgrade and advance or neutralize in someone else's hands.

If someone steals the US government's exosuit blueprints, they'll need a better exosuit- and better computer security. We are obvious candidates for both, so we just get richer and have more influence over the government.

We can keep the best stuff- the "fight Superman" tier stuff- for ourselves, sure fine. But this exosuit isn't on that level.

KnowledgeKing said:
You can never be indispensable to the US Gov't. They have their own tech and Captain Atom. And once you've given them our tech, they can simply reverse engineer it. All they need to be is above everyone else. Once there, Lex is no longer needed. And if he does something against them, they can turn on him. With his own tech.

That's not how the real life US government tends to operate regarding its own military-industrial complex. Because it's stupid for the government to work that way. They don't actually own their own factories, you know. They rely on contractors to manufacture weapons for them. Contractors like us.

Except Lex's exosuit in the comics is useful against Superman, Larfleeze, Brainiac, etc. Without Kryptonite. So...wrong.

@King crimson already told us something important about how that works- namely, that once we actually MAKE exosuits as anything other than testing prototypes, we'll be able to take an action to make a special extra-powerful "Lexosuit." Something impractical for mass production but more powerful.

Realistically, the exosuits Lex uses in comics are "Lexosuits," NOT this kind of mass market equipment we'd be selling to the US Army.

Torgamous said:
Of course not, they're making their own exosuit right now. The real source of dependency is the battery we voted to sell last update, because they're not developing a competitor to those.

And it's worth noting that if we'd hoarded the battery tech, the government WOULD be trying to develop its own substitute technology, undercutting our advantage. This way, the government has every reason to let us play with kryptonite as long as we want, because they get benefits from access to the results of our work.

A company that won't sell to the government, is a company the government can only benefit from by taxing them harder. We don't want to be in that position.

Erumpet said:
While I think it's important to sell our suits to the government eventually i don't think they are impressive enough at the moment which is why I am voting to hold back our suits

I think they're good enough to be a lot better than charging into battle wearing BDUs or Kevlar. They're well enough armed and armored to be very dangerous to conventional forces, especially loaded up with weaponry the way my 'Myrmidon' plan has them.

If the STRIPE project produces something significantly better, well, the government has that, then- but it'll probably also be a lot more expensive. I can live with Lex's armor being the "low" part of the military's "high-low" mix for now.

[Also we could totally consult on Project STRIPE and get a sense of what their tech is like]

Sanas22 · Mar 6, 2020

HavocOrder0999 said:
So suppose a criminal somehow does steal an exosuit. Their immediate thought should be: "Now what?" How much does it cost to repair and maintain these suits? One good fight and its just junk to them. How would a criminal realistically acquire all the components and not bankrupt themselves, not be added to some watch list, or avoid the issue that exotic components are hard to come by in civilian markets? How easy would it be for them to pilot it and not immediately make a mistake and blow something up and have every law enforcement agency hunt them down. Their life as an ordinary civilian is basically over, they've pretty much committed grand theft, possession of military grade weaponry, and terror charges all in one go depending on how a prosecutor can justify the scenario.

Criminals who gets this from US Military?
I mean, do I have to spell it out? They would have tonnes of funds via a backer or through themselves.
You seriously don't think that a street robber will steal an Exo-Suit, and keep up with its maintenance? Even if they somehow miraculously steal it, they gonna sold it on a Black Market. And then you can say bye-bye to your Exo-Suits. The criminal is not gonna keep the suit for themself when he/she can literally make Billions of it.

HavocOrder0999 said:
How would they hide the suit? Its 8 and a half feet tall if I recall. Imagine someone in Gotham acquires a suit, tries to hide it, and when they comes back its just the frame and someone sold off the parts for scrap. How heavy are these suits for that matter? Be a bit hard to drag them everywhere, also assuming it generates noise while active, maybe a rumble with each step, good luck sneaking it in and out of your apartment. How would they even use it practically? It be like trying to commit a armed robbery with a Ferrari or a tank, skewed priorities or pure overkill.

Are the suits or drones, encrypted that well? If not, a simple line of codes would be enough to remote pilot either of the machines and have them transfer to wherever the user desires.

HavocOrder0999 said:
The only individuals or organizations that would want to steal these suits, would already have some idea of how to build their own, and I don't think they'd steal from a group with exosuits in the first place with all the security they'd probably have to defeat (either us or a military base for example) just to get their hands on one suit (that we could probably shoot and damage before they get away). They'd probably try to hack our servers for blueprints rather than take an actual fully assembled model (trying to find the "keys" when the activation sequence can be a biolock or retinal scanner keyed to authorized personnel only). Even if they could get it to work, lot of super powered criminals would not want an exosuit if it interferes with their abilities, if anything they'd hand it off to a henchman for a one time distraction for the heroes and be done with it after that.

Why the suit? When they can get their hands on the Blueprints that the govt. would have when they reverse engineer the suit.
I can already see a full-page article on The Daily, commending Lex for his actions. "How a telecommunication tech company turned into a War-Profetting Organization."

HavocOrder0999 said:
Better to be the first in the market and continually improve than to be miss the chance and find it saturated later on. We did cell phones and we keep competitors out with our superior models, so why can't we do the same with the exosuits? Even with the US working on S.T.R.I.P.E. they still need 3 successes and have high DCs, enough time for us to hopefully get our models out and maybe go through a round or two of improvements. We could even consult with them, and just work on models that complement each other rather than both go for the same design, its how the real markets work, one company or country can't do everything, just a few select things better than their neighbors that make the cost of directly competing too great, but trade to make up for that.

Better to keep your cards close, and not play an ace when a three will do.
Consultation works tbh but marketing the suit and that too at an expo in front of the whole world.

HavocOrder0999 said:
Overall, the exosuits aren't a holy grail to be secreted away, they are a commodity that we know other groups are actively working on for their own entry into the market, and we need to leave a lasting impression on the world right now. Just my own thoughts shaped by analysis of real world trends and some common sense (applied to Kryptonite powered exosuits that we're going to show off next to kiosks with cell phones).

No, they aren't. But what they are is a WMD.
And real-world trends and common sense? If this was the pre-Gulf War era where media journalism wasn't a thing and people weren't aware of the damage that the US military was causing sure I would take your point into consideration. But this whole thing is setting Lex to be labeled as the "The Most Famous Mass-Murderer in the History of America" from the 'tech genius' and a 'person who is leading America to a peaceful era' image.

Torgamous · Mar 6, 2020

Sanas22 said:
Why the suit? When they can get their hands on the Blueprints that the govt. would have when they reverse engineer the suit.
I can already see a full-page article on The Daily, commending Lex for his actions. "How a telecommunication tech company turned into a War-Profetting Organization."

Why is the government wasting time and energy reverse engineering something we're happily selling it? That's not how the government works. Boeing isn't sitting on a superplane for fear that if they sell it the government will steal the design.

The Daily in this scenario seems to have forgotten that we started as a weapons manufacturer and the phone thing was a side project.

Simon_Jester · Mar 6, 2020

Sanas22 said:
Are the suits or drones, encrypted that well? If not, a simple line of codes would be enough to remote pilot either of the machines and have them transfer to wherever the user desires.

if they're that easy to hack then we can't use them EITHER!

I mean, seriously, there's this bizarre Schroedinger's Cat thing going on here. Somehow the idea is that as long as we never sell or manufacture this tech, it will remain pre-eminent and powerful and potentially useful to us and nobody will be able to beat it. But that as soon as it's actually exposed to the outside world it becomes vulnerable and outclassed. I don't buy that kind of reasoning. If we develop an inferior, poorly encrypted, easily disabled and sabotaged and stolen exosuit, and we try to use it somehow for our own operations... Well, guess what's going to happen, it'll get stolen or disabled or beaten up!

Why the suit? When they can get their hands on the Blueprints that the govt. would have when they reverse engineer the suit.
I can already see a full-page article on The Daily, commending Lex for his actions. "How a telecommunication tech company turned into a War-Profetting Organization."

...We were already a weapons manufacturer. It's part of why Lois Lane has a grudge against us.

Like, have you forgotten that weapons are canonically a thing that we manufacture? And have since game start? Before game start?

Better to keep your cards close, and not play an ace when a three will do.
Consultation works tbh but marketing the suit and that too at an expo in front of the whole world.

We're close to Washington D.C. There will be politically influential and connected people visiting Lexpo. I want them to see this thing. This is how weapons manufacturers actually operate.

No, they aren't. But what they are is a WMD.

These exosuits are no more a WMD than tanks or fighter jets are. They are technology that is already proliferating on the world stage. Russia has exosuits as good or better than anything we're realistically building right now. Intergang, an international terrorist organization with ties to malevolent space aliens, has exosuits, and good ones, too, probably.

This is like if a company that manufactures machine guns in 1895 tries to hoard its machine gun tech for fear that someone will steal it and then use it to fight a war with machine guns. Or somehow turn the machine guns against the company. It's nonsensical. There is no point in locking the barn door; the horse has already been stolen and sold to a glue factory already.

Black King · Mar 6, 2020

Simon_Jester said:
Somehow the idea is that as long as we never sell or manufacture this tech, it will remain pre-eminent and powerful and potentially useful to us and nobody will be able to beat it. But that as soon as it's actually exposed to the outside world it becomes vulnerable and outclassed.

I mean that's how tech does work. If it's out and exposed, people find the vulnerabilities. There's a reason a MAC used to be 'immune' to viruses at first, and now that it's widespread, it gets MORE than PCs.

Torgamous · Mar 6, 2020

KnowledgeKing said:
I mean that's how tech does work. If it's out and exposed, people find the vulnerabilities. There's a reason a MAC used to be 'immune' to viruses at first, and now that it's widespread, it gets MORE than PCs.

Obviously Apple's mistake was selling their computers. If they'd only ever made one Mac for Steve Jobs and then killed everyone involved like Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet they'd be much better off.

Dean · Mar 6, 2020

Torgamous said:
Obviously Apple's mistake was selling their computers. If they'd only ever made one Mac for Steve Jobs and then killed everyone involved like Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet they'd be much better off.

Technically if it was Thanos it would be kill everyone but one person involved.

Torgamous · Mar 6, 2020

DreamCWeaver said:
Technically if it was Thanos it would be kill everyone but one person involved.

Maybe that's what they did do and now that one person is where all the viruses are coming from.

Black King · Mar 6, 2020

Torgamous said:
Obviously Apple's mistake was selling their computers. If they'd only ever made one Mac for Steve Jobs and then killed everyone involved like Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet they'd be much better off.

Feel like I covered what you're arguing with the Heart Attack Gun and the other comic geniuses.

Rui · Mar 6, 2020

[X] Plan Powerpuff

Sanas22 · Mar 6, 2020

Torgamous said:
Why is the government wasting time and energy reverse engineering something we're happily selling it? That's not how the government works. Boeing isn't sitting on a superplane for fear that if they sell it the government will steal the design.

The Daily in this scenario seems to have forgotten that we started as a weapons manufacturer and the phone thing was a side project.

Why won't the government try doing it?
The US Government ain't stupid enough to allow themselves to be dependent on one Company. Not the govt, that has been dealing with superpowered individuals since 1939.

Simon_Jester said:
if they're that easy to hack then we can't use them EITHER!

I mean, seriously, there's this bizarre Schroedinger's Cat thing going on here. Somehow the idea is that as long as we never sell or manufacture this tech, it will remain pre-eminent and powerful and potentially useful to us and nobody will be able to beat it. But that as soon as it's actually exposed to the outside world it becomes vulnerable and outclassed. I don't buy that kind of reasoning. If we develop an inferior, poorly encrypted, easily disabled and sabotaged and stolen exosuit, and we try to use it somehow for our own operations... Well, guess what's going to happen, it'll get stolen or disabled or beaten up!

Tell that to the CIA or Batman. But then again they aren't common mooks. And the physical and software side of the Exo-Suits are two different things
And no, the idea is to not sell this tech to govt. Never have I ever stated that this tech is all-powerful to us, it has potential to be if we invest in it but giving it away right now and that too in public is what I am mostly against. I know this vote is gonna happen, ppl are going to sell it to the govt. and regret it down the line, but doing so openly... let's not.

Simon_Jester said:
...We were already a weapons manufacturer. It's part of why Lois Lane has a grudge against us.

Like, have you forgotten that weapons are canonically a thing that we manufacture? And have since game start? Before game start?

What we also are, is "a genius innovator pushing the world to a better tomorrow".
Do you think there would be no blowback for this from the public? In the first instance, we are going towards a projecting an image of a man making a path towards a better tomorrow, and in the next, we are making lethal WMDs.
I am not saying that I am against Lex making weapons for govt. but what I am saying is when the govt. or whoever gets their hand on these Exo-Suit, and use them. Public and Media will blame us/Lex for all the casualties caused/followed.

Simon_Jester said:
We're close to Washington D.C. There will be politically influential and connected people visiting Lexpo. I want them to see this thing. This is how weapons manufacturers actually operate.

A smart idea would be to do a private show, where you showcase the exo-suit (NOT to the PUBLIC). But I am already against the idea of selling the Exo-suit.

Simon_Jester said:
These exosuits are no more a WMD than tanks or fighter jets are. They are technology that is already proliferating on the world stage. Russia has exosuits as good or better than anything we're realistically building right now. Intergang, an international terrorist organization with ties to malevolent space aliens, has exosuits, and good ones, too, probably.

This is like if a company that manufactures machine guns in 1895 tries to hoard its machine gun tech for fear that someone will steal it and then use it to fight a war with machine guns. Or somehow turn the machine guns against the company. It's nonsensical. There is no point in locking the barn door; the horse has already been stolen and sold to a glue factory already.

Giving govt. an opening towards Exo-suit when they failed and are at their most desperate... well that would be a power move that OG Lex would play. But... this... smh

King crimson · Mar 6, 2020

My own brief commentary on things that I'll throw out there. The entire reason why I prefer DC's government to Marvel's government is evident in this argument. Marvel's government essentially operates under a sort of variation on Murphy's law where the people in authority make the worst decisions possible that screw over as many people as possible. In the DC Universe its much more of a tossup. You've got some decent folks and some real bad eggs and its up to you to sort it out. It's way more difficult to come to a concrete statement on them one way or another and its up to you to sort them out (You've mostly met nicer military folks or those who are unethical but dedicated to a specific goal. But folks like Ben Krullen, Clifford Zmeck, Maxwell Lord, Joseph Angst, Liam Hawkleigh, Samuel Street, and many more would make a mess for you if they got their hands on enough destructive power). It's fun to see shades of grade that reflect our own world (albeit in an exaggerated fashion) pop into a story about a bald billionaire wanting to murder a space alien.

So the question I'd recommend people ask themselves is the following, "I know that there are good people in the government and those that are running things are generally reasonable. However there are also a few real nasty nutbags mixed in their as well. Do I want to risk the nutbags using my armor to go on a rampage before the government puts them down potentially earning me some very bad press (Like if a member of the military stole an experimental tank and used it to attack downtown New York the tanks manufacturer is going to get bad press even if they couldn't have reasonably predicted that things would go that way) or do I want to lose out on making a lot of money and cultivating relationships that could heavily pay off in the era of superheroes especially as my tech gets more and more relevant?".

To simplify the arguments that I'm seeing here that I think is relevant is the following two sides. Side A argues that this is a comic book universe and thus crazy people and supervillains show up in places of authority. Giving these crazy people the exosuits can accelerate potential enemies plans and make things much harder for us and be a PR disaster for us if someone like say Thaddeus Hoskins got our exosuit and used it to try and cleanse the earth of those he felt were unworthy of being saved from the coming disaster. Side B argues that the people in charge of the government/military are generally reasonable and can be worked with and that villains are going to get their hands on superweapons and exosuits eventually so we might as well strike while the iron is hot and gather as many resources and advantages as possible and accrue many things we do want to have moving forward. I hope I fairly represented the two arguments. There is more nuance to this but its a simplification meant to make points convenient and understandable and to help define where you might fall on the issue if you are undecided.

I actually really like the debate that has come out of this and think its good. While I do think it could be conducted better/more clearly both sides have at least a leg to stand on for their arguments. This kind of debate where there is no clear "right choice" is the kind of decision I'm trying to craft with the options I'm selecting and when both options have merits and downsides its interesting to see where people fall. I think the split here is ultimately to an extent ideological and it is really interesting to see who falls where.

TLDR your conflict sustains me and so long as things are kept civil I'm excited for more since both sides arguments have a point as far as I can understand them.

Swedish15 · Mar 6, 2020

Personally, I come down on the "Sell Exosuits" side of the argument; akin to say, Gargoyles, where later on both cops and criminals have them, I think that's what's going to happen in a non-static environment, sooner or later.

The knowledge I'd like to sit on is magic, quantum computing, and similar things; AGIs, if we ever development. Weapons are nice, and we have an excellent relationship with the US government, but they're not eschatological dangers. (At least, a simple exosuit is not; if we ever develop Metal Gear Rex, that might be different.)

Simon_Jester · Mar 6, 2020

Sanas22 said:
Why won't the government try doing it?
The US Government ain't stupid enough to allow themselves to be dependent on one Company. Not the govt, that has been dealing with superpowered individuals since 1939.

Because, again, this is how the government works. Like, seriously, in real life. All their classified military tech is built by one corporation or another. The patents and blueprints are secret. These corporations become tremendously rich off this arrangement. The government doesn't just mug the companies for their tech because they need the working relationships with the engineers and scientists working for those companies. It's expensive and difficult to maintain a cutting-edge weapons research lab, and with a few exceptions like Los Alamos that deal with the most sensitive of military technology (i.e. NOT stuff like fighters, tanks, and exosuits), the government doesn't bother duplicating those capabilities by itself.

Tell that to the CIA or Batman. But then again they aren't common mooks. And the physical and software side of the Exo-Suits are two different things
And no, the idea is to not sell this tech to govt. Never have I ever stated that this tech is all-powerful to us, it has potential to be if we invest in it but giving it away right now and that too in public is what I am mostly against. I know this vote is gonna happen, ppl are going to sell it to the govt. and regret it down the line, but doing so openly... let's not.

I don't even understand what you think "giving it away" means. We're not proposing to give it away, we're proposing to sell the suits for a lot of money and in exchange for consideration and support. We're not proposing to offer the government every piece of exosuit tech we ever develop, we're talking about selling a specific model that is designed to be 'good enough' for their purposes.

Again, do you think Boeing has a superplane prototype they refuse to sell to the military for fear that it will be 'stolen' and instead hoard it for their world conquest scheme? No, because that would be stupid on many levels.

What we also are, is "a genius innovator pushing the world to a better tomorrow".
Do you think there would be no blowback for this from the public? In the first instance, we are going towards a projecting an image of a man making a path towards a better tomorrow, and in the next, we are making lethal WMDs.

No, we're making power armor. It is no more a "weapon of mass destruction" than a tank or a cruise missile. We already make those. We already sell weapons the government uses to blow people up. That was where we were on Turn 0. Lex and his ancestors have a long history of doing this; it's not new in any way. It's not something where the public will be shocked and appalled to learn that LexCorp makes weapons. If the weapons are stolen by foreigners or terrorists, the foreigners and terrorists will likely take the brunt of the blame, not Lex.

Stop catastrophizing and stop assuming that people will react with insane automatic rage against us in your contrived scenario. Not if they won't also react with insane automatic rage in mine.

Because I can do this too.

Imagine the US gets into a war and a bunch of American soldiers are killed. And it turns out LexCorp was hoarding technology that could have saved American lives, not even selling it when we already sell weapons, but apparently not the weapons we could have sold.

Do you not think there would be blowback in that scenario, too? The unnecessarily capitalized Public and Media will blame us/Lex for all the casualties caused/followed. Or won't they?

A smart idea would be to do a private show, where you showcase the exo-suit (NOT to the PUBLIC). But I am already against the idea of selling the Exo-suit.

I think that a public exhibition will have the opposite effect. Remember that only two years ago, Metropolis was terrorized by a man with a powerful exosuit- Ignition. By showing that we can create exosuits of our own, ones superficially similar to Ignition's, we show that we can protect the city and that we are helping to make sure the United States can counter the powers of potential enemies.

Given that there apparently hasn't been massive protests against the war in Santa Prisca, I suspect the American public as a whole is not yet radically antiwar. The political atmosphere reminds me of what existed in 2002 or so, when there was a lot of support for fighting wars to fight enemies that had attacked the US on its own soil. Lex can profit from that.

HavocOrder0999 · Mar 6, 2020

So @Sanas22 I'll answer your points to the best of my ability sorry if its late:

Criminals who gets this from US Military?
I mean, do I have to spell it out? They would have tonnes of funds via a backer or through themselves.
You seriously don't think that a street robber will steal an Exo-Suit, and keep up with its maintenance? Even if they somehow miraculously steal it, they gonna sold it on a Black Market. And then you can say bye-bye to your Exo-Suits. The criminal is not gonna keep the suit for themself when he/she can literally make Billions of it.

If they get it from a military base, that's on the military for not having it secured and locked, we're not responsible for keeping it secured after its purchased. If someone steals a chainsaw from their neighbor to commit a crime, you don't sue the manufacturer if they had nothing to do with it after the sale. A "street robber" is not going to steal the suit. It will be an infiltration expert who will charge an arm and a leg to steal from a weapons manufacturer who has a government contract for "kill suits". You can bet someone will sell Lex info on where he can pick up his missing suit, it'll be embarrassing to have to go there, wreck the place, and bring it back, but its doable. If the criminal can make billions off it, it will be too "hot" to be a reasonable target, they'd live the rest of their lives in hiding afterwards.

Are the suits or drones, encrypted that well? If not, a simple line of codes would be enough to remote pilot either of the machines and have them transfer to wherever the user desires.

True, hackers will always be a threat, we can only improve our cyber-security and hope the military does the same. Technopaths are also a threat (I'm not gonna use Mechanokinesis even if the wiki uses it).

Why the suit? When they can get their hands on the Blueprints that the govt. would have when they reverse engineer the suit.
I can already see a full-page article on The Daily, commending Lex for his actions. "How a telecommunication tech company turned into a War-Profetting Organization."

Again, if they hack the government, not our responsibility. We are not obligated to protect the Government for losing our blueprints, they'd probably have to apologize to us instead. LexCorp was already profiting off weapons, if anything going into the exosuits will reassure our stockholders, and working with the government will reassure the average citizen (conspiracy nuts are not the average citizen, even if they'll decry our suits as the next implements of war). I'm sure the military would have something to say about any publication that attacks a citizen for working with them, as would many patriotic citizens, and stockholders of said publication.

Better to keep your cards close, and not play an ace when a three will do.
Consultation works tbh but marketing the suit and that too at an expo in front of the whole world.

I understand what you're saying here, always keep a secret weapon handy that your enemy isn't expecting as a last resort, but an exosuit by itself isn't going to be that. Its what we attach to the exosuit, or our special model XL super suit with all the works ("Lexosuits" thank you @Simon_Jester). Considering we could configure the exosuits to aid in construction by augmenting strength and integrating power tools, or do medical work by being used as a mobile medical station, I don't think the world will lose their minds over a few weapons and flight capabilities, they'll just see us taking a tool and attaching components we're known for working on.

No, they aren't. But what they are is a WMD.
And real-world trends and common sense? If this was the pre-Gulf War era where media journalism wasn't a thing and people weren't aware of the damage that the US military was causing sure I would take your point into consideration. But this whole thing is setting Lex to be labeled as the "The Most Famous Mass-Murderer in the History of America" from the 'tech genius' and a 'person who is leading America to a peaceful era' image.

OK, so first: "WMD"? Trains were once feared for all the horrible ways they could kill you. Radio and TV were also feared, some people today still fear video games as the greatest evil. To all these things I would say use it responsibly, and don't abuse their power, and the world will keep on spinning. Common sense for how you'd handle a dangerous and expensive tool, market trends because that is how markets work, you don't see one company trying to be the best in all categories, and if they enter the market late to the game, like Waynetech with their phones ( :mob:

) then they have a steep hill to climb, and their rivals will bleed them for every step.

Some inventions start out with peaceful goals that get subverted due to demands (dynamite and atomic power were supposed to be used peacefully for the benefit of man, and military does what it does due to war) but I don't think the average person is going to be that uninformed about what LexCorp does. Remember Ignition? Big guy in a power suit that wrecked Metropolis and Fort Knox who was pretty much unstoppable. I think the public will be happier knowing the US military is working on something to combat that, and if LexCorp starts that trend of mass produced exosuits and is working with the military, then all the better.

Negation · Mar 6, 2020

I still want Toyman III so we can make ~~Gundams~~ Giant Robots to sell to the JSDF. Because is Japan still Japan without Mecha?

Simon_Jester · Mar 6, 2020

Swedish15 said:
Personally, I come down on the "Sell Exosuits" side of the argument; akin to say, Gargoyles, where later on both cops and criminals have them, I think that's what's going to happen in a non-static environment, sooner or later.

The knowledge I'd like to sit on is magic, quantum computing, and similar things; AGIs, if we ever development. Weapons are nice, and we have an excellent relationship with the US government, but they're not eschatological dangers. (At least, a simple exosuit is not; if we ever develop Metal Gear Rex, that might be different.)

I mean yeah, 'superweapon' technology that could be used to devastate the Earth, that's different. Frankly we shouldn't even develop that in my opinion, except for working on a way to make our own Superman-tier metahumans, or as an incidental side effect of what we develop as the power scale gets really high in a notional end-game where being able to blow up a planet isn't very impressive anymore.

But suits of power armor aren't really fundamentally different from tanks or fighter jets. They're just weapons.

HavocOrder0999 said:
I understand what you're saying here, always keep a secret weapon handy that your enemy isn't expecting as a last resort, but an exosuit by itself isn't going to be that. Its what we attach to the exosuit, or our special model XL super suit with all the works ("Lexosuits" thank you @Simon_Jester).

That's actually @King crimson 's term, not mine.

Negation said:
I still want Toyman III so we can make ~~Gundams~~ Giant Robots to sell to the JSDF. Because is Japan still Japan without Mecha?

We could totally do that without him though I wouldn't reject him out of hand.

Our current exosuits more closely resemble Armored Trooper VOTOMS, frankly.

HavocOrder0999 · Mar 6, 2020

I will say this right now: @Simon_Jester @King crimson thank you for the term Lexosuit in general, and for everything you have BOTH done for this quest. I've checked the wiki and it just refers to it as "Lex Luthor's Warsuit".

Edit: In terms of sell or keep, I fall hard on sell, because hoarding is only good for something that runs the risk of being scarce. The market is gonna be full of exosuits soon. On the other hand if the government decides to legislate away exosuits with exceptions to designs already registered and patented, we'd have a different conversation here.

Negation · Mar 6, 2020

Simon_Jester said:
I mean yeah, 'superweapon' technology that could be used to devastate the Earth, that's different. Frankly we shouldn't even develop that in my opinion, except for working on a way to make our own Superman-tier metahumans, or as an incidental side effect of what we develop as the power scale gets really high in a notional end-game where being able to blow up a planet isn't very impressive anymore.

Yeah. No need for WMDs anyways with the end of the Cold War, those are just a lose-lose business for LexCorp.

We just need to wait for the Warworld to come and have the Rogues steal the Crystal Key.

Of course to look good we will turn it over to the UN while giving Eiling/Lane/Waller opportunities to staff it full of their guys in Security.

Of course as a reward for turning it to UN custody, LexCorp scientists get first crack in reverse engineering the technology.

And of course we will use this opportunity to ~~poach~~ network with other reputable scientists worldwide.

ebolasos · Mar 6, 2020

I just want to say but why care about if our enemy's get exo suits? By the logic going on that it'll be stolen and hoarding it makes it more valuable is silly, russia is already making high powered suits on the scale of taking superman when he currently starts off.

Stripes program is steadily chugging along and soon the amercian government will have exo suits close to Ignition's level

Us selling it doesn't make us any weaker, others are making better ones then us selling our currently level of suits isn't helping our enemy's all to much.

Negation · Mar 6, 2020

Simon_Jester said:
We could totally do that without him though I wouldn't reject him out of hand.

I want him mostly to deny Bats & Supes:-

Torgamous · Mar 6, 2020

Negation said:
I want him mostly to deny Bats & Supes:-

Are you kidding? Getting Superman to fly in that thing should be a Nemesis action.

Negation · Mar 6, 2020

Torgamous said:
Are you kidding? Getting Superman to fly in that thing should be a Nemesis action.

But if we own it and Bats/Supes end up trashing it they will owe us money.

Lex Sedet In Vertice: A Supervillain in the DCU CK2 quest

What sort of tone should I shoot for with this Quest?

Go as crack fueled as you can we want Ambush Bug, Snowflame and Duckseid

Go for something silly but keep a little bit of reason

Adam West Camp

Balanced as all things should be

Mostly serious but not self-involvedly so

Dark and brooding but with light at the end of the tunnel

We're evil and we don't want anyone to be happy

Treize died for our sins

Aspiring Gynoid

Aspiring Gynoid

Aspiring Gynoid

Confusion Will Be My Epitaph

Hiiii please be my friend!

Aspiring Gynoid