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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Austin, TX
What for? The Convoy Waystations are literally only useful for wartime and you are suggesting the GBZ? The Federation is NOT at war with Cardassia, and there hasn't been any recent signs of that changing. Buying wartime resources for a inactive border zone is a mistake. The Convoy Waystations won't improve any peacetime aspects of the GBZ, so it's not a useful purchase. See:
I submit that the Centi-Cochrane Band Antenna (for the HBZ) is a much better purchase, and cheaper:
Discussed with BV and SWB on discord and there is no gaurentee Convoy Waystations are useful outside of wartime:
SWB said:
Given that, the CCBA is a much, much better purchase. I am being self-serving, but my plan purchases the CCBA and other goodies (expands the FDS).
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- Location
- Illinois
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Suspicion of imminent Cardie raiding. We know that the Harmony is preparing a major offensive against us. That'll probably hit early next year. Since the Harmony pretends to be an open society, they're likely to declare plans to operate against us, even if without any specifics, they're already having to prep their citizens for war. Once they launch that offensive, the Cardies are very likely to start raiding us. Why wouldn't they? It's ludicrously resource rich, and there aren't any Federation members right there. Even the Apiata and the Amarki detachment will be some distance.
- Location
- Austin, TX
Did you miss the SWB quote where there is no insurance Convoy Waystations will even be applied to raiders? You are gambling.
The Centi-Cochrane Band Antenna is cheaper and a sure thing. Heck, I could make the argument that the Centi-Cochrane Band Antenna for the GBZ is a better deal than Convoy Waystations, with your exact reply.
The extra events the CCBA offers is much more useful than some extra bonuses to rolls for wartime events, regardless of the border zone it is deployed in.
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- Location
- Illinois
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean, yes, it is technically a gamble, but it's a gamble I'm pretty willing to take. It would make perfect sense for them to apply to raiding operations narratively, and the quote also says that such operations might be run through the full war system. I mean, why would there be a difference between convoy raiders in war and convoy raiders in "technically it's not war nah nah nah nah you can't touch me"? Plus, even if not run through the full war system, for narrative reasons I'd again suspect that they'd add something like "+2 to convoy escape rolls" or similar.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Please include all the relevant material from your Discord conversation:
Specifically, that the answer swb provided was a non-answer, one that you're overselling pretty damn hard, and that even aside from how it affects raiders it still provides benefit during peacetime by likely improving income. And that your argument isn't motivated by the actual benefits of Convoy Waystations in their own right, but that it's something you can attack to get your preferred line-item in.Discord said:
It's really hard to read your posts here as anything but blatant dishonesty.
Mining Colony Qendip III, 10 (25) br/year) is one map square away from the Ataami and i also normaly would not give colonies away but in this case we are getting the income of a new affilliate in exchange and remove it from the list of powers that can get one of the random diplopushes(those are picked from the list of non affilliates).
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
after looking at the leading votes I am going to change mine to Raw90's My only problem with his is that he is not getting the explorers annex but that's not really important right now IIRC. If its important than let me know since I may have forgotten something important.
[X][COUNCIL] Raw90 Safe Snakepit 2326
[X][COUNCIL] Raw90 Safe Snakepit 2326
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
To membership them faster. That's a very big, very valuable step. For example Diplopushing them every year accelerates them joining by like five times. They are large and powerful polities that have much to add to UFP.
Because they are massively exposed. Look at the map, even the Ked Paddah are hanging on the rest of UFP by a thread, Dreamers would be even worse and exposed to HoH and the Breen.
They are very gung ho about closer ties because they are small polity in a dangerous area of space real close to the likes of Klingons, or the Gorn. This is mostly to benefit them, not us.
They are tiny, low tech, and pacifistic. The benefits of Allying them are minimal.
Better relations are not worth much when they are heavily subverted, but an option, sure.
Easily affiliated by giving them a mining colony, which mine and Sunrises plans do. Also they are tiny and low tech, low benefit.
The neutral zone is neutral for a reason, and 72 points is a lot to clear with diplopushes on a non-affiliate. We could get the likes of Yrillians to join up at that expense, which would be far more valuable.
This is a good idea, will edit my plan.
You kept BVs strictly worse SR colony pick. There is another colony in GBZ that is -2pp cheaper and gives +25br while also giving +35sr a year. See the Raw90 plan.
We do not lack for S in our defensive Task Groups, we lack Combat.
We have a massive glut of colonies and there is a low BR output one nearby, the one that we originally planned to give to STO in fact. Mining Colony Qendip III, 10 (25) br/year).
P.S. I don't understand why people insist on buying Listening Posts, they are bad.
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Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
@Raw90 Could you please change the defensive Task Group to a combat focus one or make it (ugh) Offensive? We do not lack for S among our defense TGs, offensive TGs need S. If you do that and drop one Listening Post (which are bad) for the EC annex I would vote for your plan.
Edit2: Listening Posts have been changed and are not good. I still believe that not taking the EC Annex is a bad idea because it is a result of picking Nash for Academy head, and EC crew is very precious. I recommend swapping the GBZ Waystations for Outposts, probably in the Rimward BZ, they need them down there though LBZ is a good option too. Frees up 20pp.
Edit: I would also recommend passing the colony to the Ataami instead, paying for it by dropping the Becarra System Sensor Platform probably. Once the Ataami are affiliated they will start receiving automatic diplopushes, so if we affiliate them this year instead of the next we receive something somewhere around 20 extra points of relations with them I think, and we would need to transfer a colony to them later anyway unless we can very lucky with random non-affiliate pushes and Qendip III is the single worst viable colony we have.
Edit2: Listening Posts have been changed and are not good. I still believe that not taking the EC Annex is a bad idea because it is a result of picking Nash for Academy head, and EC crew is very precious. I recommend swapping the GBZ Waystations for Outposts, probably in the Rimward BZ, they need them down there though LBZ is a good option too. Frees up 20pp.
Edit: I would also recommend passing the colony to the Ataami instead, paying for it by dropping the Becarra System Sensor Platform probably. Once the Ataami are affiliated they will start receiving automatic diplopushes, so if we affiliate them this year instead of the next we receive something somewhere around 20 extra points of relations with them I think, and we would need to transfer a colony to them later anyway unless we can very lucky with random non-affiliate pushes and Qendip III is the single worst viable colony we have.
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- Location
- Germany
Hmm, I do want the Bolians, to increase their resiliency to Harmony subversion, to reduce the isolation of the Dreamers a bit, and to activate the automatic affiliate advancement. I don't see much point in affiliating the Sotaw, though.
I would also prefer to affiliate the Ataami by giving them a colony. Diplo-pushes are more scarce than colonies.
Time for approval voting.
[X][COUNCIL] No Starbase Loss Briefvoice Snakepit 2326
[X][COUNCIL] Sunrise's no starbase Snakepit 2326
[X][Council] Plan Briefvoice With Derpmind Diplo
[X][COUNCIL] Enerael Snakepit 2326 No Trap
I would also prefer to affiliate the Ataami by giving them a colony. Diplo-pushes are more scarce than colonies.
Time for approval voting.
[X][COUNCIL] No Starbase Loss Briefvoice Snakepit 2326
[X][COUNCIL] Sunrise's no starbase Snakepit 2326
[X][Council] Plan Briefvoice With Derpmind Diplo
[X][COUNCIL] Enerael Snakepit 2326 No Trap
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sorry if I'm being a little too slow on all this. I've been a bit sick the last few days. 
If no on objects, I'll change to selling the Ataami the mining colony and put a diplo-push back on the Sydraxians. Though this introduces a new problem in that Raw90's plan already sells that same colony off for 10pp and I don't know what to replace it with.
Well... it looks strictly better to me, too. They're both in the same location, so unless it turns out to be directly on Cardassia's border I don't see a good reason not to make this switch.
I'm only guessing here, but they don't cost ep and are a permanent infrastructure upgrade. I mean, 25% chance of activating is pretty bad, but if we spam them everywhere then they will help our intel situation. *shrug* If I had made my own plan earlier instead of coming in late specifically to try to get better diplomacy picks, I could maybe switch those out for for something else... but I didn't, so I'm really not comfortable with trying to change things like that on everyone this late.
If no on objects, I'll change to selling the Ataami the mining colony and put a diplo-push back on the Sydraxians. Though this introduces a new problem in that Raw90's plan already sells that same colony off for 10pp and I don't know what to replace it with.
Well... it looks strictly better to me, too. They're both in the same location, so unless it turns out to be directly on Cardassia's border I don't see a good reason not to make this switch.
I'm only guessing here, but they don't cost ep and are a permanent infrastructure upgrade. I mean, 25% chance of activating is pretty bad, but if we spam them everywhere then they will help our intel situation. *shrug* If I had made my own plan earlier instead of coming in late specifically to try to get better diplomacy picks, I could maybe switch those out for for something else... but I didn't, so I'm really not comfortable with trying to change things like that on everyone this late.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
On Listening posts:
-Deploy Listening Post II to a Border Zone to gain a +1ap to the Analysis Desk of the Major and Minor power of largest concern on that border. (pick border zone, Cardassian, Klingon, Horizon borders have Listening Post I), 20pp
25% chance of gaining 1 Intel Point for 20pp is equal to a 100% chance of gaining 1 Intel Point for 80pp. Unless consistency has value, which is often does, though not in this case I don't think.
Compare with this:
-Acquire additional resources for Starfleet Intelligence Gathering, 75pp (Permanently gain +1pt of Discretionary Spending)
Only 5pp more expensive. So far so good, a bit more expensive per IP, but cheaper to buy.
But there are two problems.
One, Listening Post Intel Point is locked, where if we took the second option we can use it for anything.
And two:
-Acquire additional resources for Starfleet Intelligence Command, 75pp (Permanently gain +3pt under control of Vice Admiral)
Unless you think that our Intel Vice Admiral is an idiot that will outright waste those points, this option is three times as good as Listening Posts.
It would take 12 Listening posts to equal it, which is 240pp.
If we are starved for PP and need more IPs, they make some sense, but they are not an efficient use of PPs and we have more PP this Snakepit that we even had as far as I know. If you want IPs, if at all possibly buyIntelligence Command.
Edit: They don't give 20% chance, they give +1ap for both a minor and major always. I have no idea how I read it that badly, sorry.
Edit2: Stealth GM edit it seems. That's a relief.
-Deploy Listening Post II to a Border Zone to gain a +1ap to the Analysis Desk of the Major and Minor power of largest concern on that border. (pick border zone, Cardassian, Klingon, Horizon borders have Listening Post I), 20pp
Compare with this:
-Acquire additional resources for Starfleet Intelligence Gathering, 75pp (Permanently gain +1pt of Discretionary Spending)
Only 5pp more expensive. So far so good, a bit more expensive per IP, but cheaper to buy.
But there are two problems.
One, Listening Post Intel Point is locked, where if we took the second option we can use it for anything.
And two:
-Acquire additional resources for Starfleet Intelligence Command, 75pp (Permanently gain +3pt under control of Vice Admiral)
Unless you think that our Intel Vice Admiral is an idiot that will outright waste those points, this option is three times as good as Listening Posts.
It would take 12 Listening posts to equal it, which is 240pp.
If we are starved for PP and need more IPs, they make some sense, but they are not an efficient use of PPs and we have more PP this Snakepit that we even had as far as I know. If you want IPs, if at all possibly buy
Edit: They don't give 20% chance, they give +1ap for both a minor and major always. I have no idea how I read it that badly, sorry.
Edit2: Stealth GM edit it seems. That's a relief.
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1pt breaks down into 3ap, don't forget
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
Wait what doesn't this mean that Listening Posts are three times worse than even that?
That they effectively give one locked Intel Point for 20*4*3=240pp?
???
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Please carefully re-read the actual options, and form your own opinion.
Attention.... there has been an update to the Listening Post options in the Snakepit.
Rather than a larger percentage chance of doing nothing, they now guarantee some extra ap on the appropriate desks.
SWB adds in chat:
So much stronger argument for the listening posts to be added to the Rimward BZ and Imelak BZ.
Basically, we're spending 20pp for 2/3 for a an intelligence point that's locked into analysis points for specific polities. That's... okayish.
Rather than a larger percentage chance of doing nothing, they now guarantee some extra ap on the appropriate desks.
SWB adds in chat:
So much stronger argument for the listening posts to be added to the Rimward BZ and Imelak BZ.
Basically, we're spending 20pp for 2/3 for a an intelligence point that's locked into analysis points for specific polities. That's... okayish.
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Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
Ah. I have no idea how I read it that badly.
Ok than, so, +2ap (one for minor, one for major) for 20pp means 30pp for the equivalent of 1pt.
Objections withdrawn.
(What the hell brain?)
Edit: Stealth GM edit it seems. That's a relief.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Do we want to replace the old listening posts on the Harmony border?
Apparently we do not need to per the quote from SWB above.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Updated both my plans. I'm trading off the suggested br mining colony to bring the Ataami into Afilliation status, and putting a diplo-push back on the Sydraxians. I've also switched the sr mining colony in the Briefvoice plan for one that's in the same GBZ region but costs 2 pp less and gives br as well as additional sr.
@Raw90 I've been looking over your plan, and it appears to only spend 673 pp (out of our budget of 680 pp) and thus doesn't need to Pass Control of a mining colony for an extra 10 pp. I don't think I missed anything?
@Raw90 I've been looking over your plan, and it appears to only spend 673 pp (out of our budget of 680 pp) and thus doesn't need to Pass Control of a mining colony for an extra 10 pp. I don't think I missed anything?
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
[X][Council] Plan Briefvoice With Derpmind Diplo
Changing my vote since i want to affiliate the Attami and it gives us an explorer annex as well.
Changing my vote since i want to affiliate the Attami and it gives us an explorer annex as well.
Himmelhand
Giant Sinkhole 2020
- Location
- Midwestern US
I'll also change my vote. The arguments have been persuasive with respect to diplopushes and
[X][Council] Plan Briefvoice With Derpmind Diplo
[X][Council] Plan Briefvoice With Derpmind Diplo