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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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NavySeel said:
Better tools, more journeymen, more books, a better learning Stat and an even better lab Also I don't think we've finished the Liber mortis.
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More journeymen wouldn't help with the initial investigation (which needs to be secret anyway, as messing with daemon blood in public seems another rather foolish aspect of the prevailing plan), and I don't think we even know what better tools would look like.

I've not seen anyone propose waiting until we get a better Learning stat.
 
Alratan said:
More journeymen wouldn't help with the initial investigation (which needs to be secret anyway, as messing with daemon blood in public seems another rather foolish aspect of the prevailing plan), and I don't think we even know what better tools would look like.

I've not seen anyone propose waiting until we get a better Learning stat.
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I never said anyone had just that it would probably help.
 
[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
Solid plan.

[] Plan Citadel Focus
...on balance I prefer finally getting research done to setting up the temple.

[] Plan Magical Mathilde
No snake research, no Wolf attention. Spell selection random.
 
The problem here is that there seems to be a lack of trust that the people voting to build a tower for a laboratory to investigate the snake juice in next turn will simply change their minds after making that commitment. The sunk cost aspect to this should be strong enough that it just won't happen. People won't build a lab and then just leaving it sitting there after investing the action point to do so.

The snake juice is important enough that we should do it properly, rather than risking ruining its potential by skimping on it. As the dwarves would say, a job worth doing is worth doing properly, and I don't want to risk permanently reducing the potential of the snake juice by trying to research it in poor conditions.
 
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NavySeel said:
Better tools, more journeymen, more books, a better learning Stat and an even better lab Also I don't think we've finished the Liber mortis.
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1. What better tools? We have no relevant tools.
2. What does that have to do with Snek-Juice?
3. Books and Snek-juice don't compete for actions. We already have a lot of books needed and nothing stops us from buying the ones left mid-turn.
4. No one has ever made the argument to wait for improved stats since the beginning of the quest. I for one won't except this argument and I'm sure the opinion is common.
5. We can't get a better lab anytime soon other than the one we're buying now. The lab made inert by the dwarves is the best things we have for pure research.
 
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Thor's Twin said:
which seems much more like trying to understand what it is and attempting to classify it. And for that purpose, I think that a Magister Lord level lab is grossly overkill.
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Dice results retroactively affect reality in this quest. We are likely not investigating an object with pre-determined characteristics, but are actually detrmining what set of possible characteristics snakeblood was having all along.

For now, the snake blood properties are undetermined, and the first research roll will collapse it's wave function and determine most of the parameters the snake blood has. Therefore, the first research roll should be stacked as high as humanely possible.

Edit: disregard that, by WOG it's the unmodified dice roll result which retroactively affects the universe, and stacking bonii on it does not give extra benefits.
 
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Alratan said:
The problem here is that there seems to be a lack of trust that the people voting to build a tower for a laboratory to investigate the snake juice in next turn will simply change their minds after making that commitment. The sunk cost aspect to this should be strong enough that it just won't happen. People won't build a lab and then just leaving it sitting there after investing the action point to do so.
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The issue is that we were building a lab last turn and saying the exact same thing.

I don't see what's stopping this from happening again next turn if there is an option to improve our lab available.
 
NavySeel said:
The issue is that we were building a lab last turn and saying the exact same thing.

I don't see what's stopping this from happening again next turn if there is an option to improve our lab available.
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There wont be, because the five dwarf favour is iirc the limits of what dwarven knowledge can be applied to making a magical clean room.
 
NavySeel said:
The issue is that we were building a lab last turn and saying the exact same thing.

I don't see what's stopping this from happening again next turn if there is an option to improve our lab available.
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We weren't building a lab for Mathilde last turn though. People may have misunderstood the option, and so, basically some may have voted based on their misunderstanding, but they haven't changed their mind, just learned that they weren't voting for the pre-requiste they thought they were. As a result it makes sense to build the real lab now. There's only one thing we know we can buy for pure magical research that we're aware of though.

What I'm getting at is that those (hypothetical) voters weren't being disingenuous, they were simply being incorrect, which can happen to anyone.
 
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Koya2 said:
[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
-[X] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')
--[X] Write a paper on the Waaagh energy and magic witnessed during the Expedition.
-[X] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[x] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel. [ACTION 1][COIN]
-[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: specify who and how.
--[X] Assist Gunnar with burial rites for Humans
-[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[X] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[x] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[X] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.
--[X] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[X] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
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Please do not copy paste entire plans, it screws up the tally. If you wish to vote for someone else's plan, use only the name. If you make you own, make sure it's name is unique.
 
[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore

Researching snake juice in your bedroom just means you get to have neat snake dreams at night. Win-win.
 
BoneyM said:
Their possible benefits are definitely discussed fairly frequently, it's just that the other faces of the Coin benefit things Mathilde isn't currently doing much of. I don't mind if it takes a while for the Coin to have a chance to strut its stuff.
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They've been discussed but people just don't agree on what the different sides do, and I personally don't understand how the Protector works. I.e. some people say that Protector side would be useless in those two turns we had because we didn't do any protecting. Others say Night Prowler side wouldn't help us in Mors clan holdings sortie because smell and it isn't really a city. Would it be a good idea to set coin to Night Prowler last turn, given that we did empower city scouting action anyway?
 
Alratan said:
The problem here is that there seems to be a lack of trust that the people voting to build a tower for a laboratory to investigate the snake juice in next turn will simply change their minds after making that commitment. The sunk cost aspect to this should be strong enough that it just won't happen. People won't build a lab and then just leaving it sitting there after investing the action point to do so.

The snake juice is important enough that we should do it properly, rather than risking ruining its potential by skimping on it. As the dwarves would say, a job worth doing is worth doing properly, and I don't want to risk permanently reducing the potential of the snake juice by trying to research it in poor conditions.
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Bad research now is infinitely better than perfect research never.
We have delayed and delayed and delayed and delayed. Always with good and reasonable justifications. I have no confidence we won't continue to have good and reasonable justifications to delay for the rest of time.
 
CuttleFish2.0 said:
I still don't understand why everyone is so concerned about Johann's feelings. If he weren't willing to accept being under our authority he wouldn't have accepted, he knew going in that we were going to make some demands on his time and judged that that was worth it for having official support for his own projects and a official position within the Hold. But, if we establish a pattern of letting him do whatever he wants just because we want him to like us, he's more likely to balk later when we judge something really needs his attention for several turns and we don't turn him loose on his own projects, because he might have come to expect that we're his super friendly boss who just lets him coast because we're too afraid of him getting pissy. We recruited him, that means he's our employee. He needs to earn his keep.
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Why do you care so much about his feelings? The skaven project tech project promises great things for everyone with their name on it. Have him complete it fast and leave instead of having him analyze spiderwebs while we continue to mistrust him.
NavySeel said:
The issue is that we were building a lab last turn and saying the exact same thing.

I don't see what's stopping this from happening again next turn if there is an option to improve our lab available.
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Because we aren't doing this secret daemon-based research in that very public lab we set up for our journeymen
BoneyM said:
Yes. Whether something set up in a corner of your bedroom is sufficient for your needs or not is up to you.
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This is a choice between the tower lab and doing in in our bedroom.
 
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Angelform said:
Bad research now is infinitely better than perfect research never.
We have delayed and delayed and delayed and delayed. Always with good and reasonable justifications. I have no confidence we won't continue to have good and reasonable justifications to delay for the rest of time.
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Bad research that leads to it exploding in your bedroom with all your books that makes it go up in smoke and fire would be beyond disasterous. It's absolutely possible.

The dwarf clean room lab would have a runic safety feature to immediately purge the room per WoG IIRC if we spend the favour. We are dealing with liquid magical energy, the power density of this stuff is huge. It's not for nothing that we have the following as an option.

[ ] Instead of seeking the secrets of the blood, simply see if it can be weaponized in some way.
 
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On the subject of snake juice, one of the reasons I want to get a dwarf made magical lab is two fold:

This is the first piece of serious magical research we're doing in the hold. I really don't want to let Belegar down by screwing this up and making a mess if we get a poor roll. We've been doing great work to overcome the reputation that human wizards have, I don't want to damage that. Showing that we took appropriate precautions such as a dwarven designed clean room and magic extractor is, I feel, an important way of demonstrating to him and the other dwarves that responsible wizards who approach their craft sensibly exist.

The unknown connection between the blood and the snake makes me worry that with a bad enough failure that isn't flushed quickly could kill/damage the goose that lays the golden eggs bleeding snake box. I really don't want to risk that.
 
I have seen a lot of good arguments for delaying the snake juice. But, I just don't care. I want to get started on the snake juice. People have mentioned that there is a lack of trust and I agree. I simply no longer trust the promise of next turn. So much could happen between now and the next turn vote. If there is a chance to push snake juice research through I will vote for that.

We will want a lab for teasing uses out of the snake juice but right now we have a basic lab. Might as well start. I do not believe it would be hard to move our research notes to the new lab once it's finished.

I do not expect revolutionary breakthroughs with the snake juice. What I expect is to get the train started.
 
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