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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Dracikral said:
The problem I have with this is the idea that they'd make a masterwork at the very limits of current Dawi ingenuity out of anything but their greatest materials. Also if I remember the WoG correctly it's 10 favor for a weapon of gromril so does that mean the sword costs a total of 35 favor if we want to make it from gromril? Also I realize that there is no available gromril to be used at the moment, but surely we'll be able to find at least one more cache? And that's not even taking into account, that Belegar might reforge the armor, because as you all say he's all about forging new item, rather than clinging to past glories.
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Is 10 favors if we supply the metal for then to smith it, Gromril is so rare they can't get any for us no matter how much favor we spend and so precious they would refuse to make anything lesser out of it.
 
So, now that other votes are unlocked, and I somehow managed to slog through the 20+ pages since my vote-post, updating:

[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor.
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Soizic, Bretonnian Questing Knight
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be allowed to scutter off into the Underway, never to be seen again .

[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [ENCHANTMENT] An item enchanted with Talk With Beast(3 favors)

Because I think that it could be very useful in spying missions, or if Mathilde runs into more We's of spiders, or possibly to chat with Wolf. Or would it be considered a thinky-magic that would do Bad Things to Mathilde's brain? @BoneyM

[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics.
[X] [LIBRARY] No purchase.

Don't really like the current leading library vote, but would like to get some.

This turn, tho. Anton's guards need a raise. EIC got tax-free travel to the Moot, which is pretty nice. We just solved the Spider Problem, although it may result in further complications, but worst-case we have them Go Away. And we scouted the Skaven under the Citadel, and brought back a very nice shiny. Facilities were built, books were bought, and Max discovered the spider venom is paralytic, which is helpful. Undumgi leadership seems likely to be in good hands, regardless of who wins out.

And, of course, the Liber Mortis... Yipe. Definitely not knowledge to be spread. Might even be worthwhile investigating the memory-locking methods the Grey College uses, to see if there is any way they can be self-applied.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight
Peaks.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [ENCHANTMENT] No purchase
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons

regarding the armor vote, because I know someone is going to bother me about it, I am mostly concerned about the hold it came from Grudging us for melting down their ancestral heirloom/
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
I want a tower room next turn so we can call in College experts to get the room naturally aligned to Ulgu.
Nope, we only get gromril if we find it.

Reforging the armor isn't straight up asking for a piece. It's saying he should reforge the armor into something useful.

And there have been many arguments made as to why solidifying his conquest with a gromril symbol is an excellent idea.

That it's very likely that it would go to commemorative weapons works to our advantage, and we can use it to build a beautiful narrative, but by itself, reforging the gromril is, IMO, the best move.

Could you also vote for the simple "25 Favour Sword"? It's leading, but is by no means unnasaiblable.

We have WoG that the less we describe it, the better it should come out.
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Just wondering if we put in an order for a 25 favour sword and there is no gromril available, would it be put on hold till we deliver some or would they make an attempt using lesser metal? Cause from my understanding it'd be like putting down a reservation/preorder if there isn't any available gromril, and we could go out at our leisure and find another piece.
 
runeblue360 said:
Yeah, it does strike me as kinda gauche. I'm a billion percent down for the awesome sword but it seems very graceless to offer such a nakedly self-interested opinion.
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You I am starting to wonder if people are conflating ooc reasoning with Ic reasoning, like ooc we are voting for this based on the idea, but Ic wouldn't it be that Mathield would sugest the remaking of the armor, then go for her sword when she notices the suden avaiabiity of gromril, thus avoiding this problem ?
 
Dracikral said:
Just wondering if we put in an order for a 25 favour sword and there is no gromril available, would it be put on hold till we deliver some or would they make an attempt using lesser metal? Cause from my understanding it'd be like putting down a reservation/preorder if there isn't any available gromril, and we could go out at our leisure and find another piece.
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That's not my understanding of it.

But say it does. Like I posted before, we are missing out on an absolute motherlode of symbolism.

A physical, imperishable symbol of "reforging the past into a brighter future" is a fantastic thing to have.

And say we wait, that still leaves us waiting X+1d3 turns to get it, where X can be 1 or 40, as that's until they find more gromril, and we may even have to spend more favor to acquire it.
 
Zaratustra said:
You I am starting to wonder if people are conflating ooc reasoning with Ic reasoning, like ooc we are voting for this based on the idea, but Ic wouldn't it be that Mathield would sugest the remaking of the armor, then go for her sword when she notices the suden avaiabiity of gromril, thus avoiding this problem ?
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"Hey, I think we should reforge this gromril into something useful. On a completely unrelated note, I'd like Kragg to make the greatest work of Runesmithing he can, pushing the limits of what's possible in this age."

I mean, the implication is pretty clear there. Even the typical an Intrigue 2 Dwarf would get the idea.
 
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Andres110 said:
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor.

Doing anything but this would be very wrong. This isn't just war gear, this is someone's armour. That someone is lying dead in a skaven's warren and soon to be eaten, never to see his friends and loved ones again. We've been presented with this kind of choice before.

We made the right choice then.


Let's make the right choice again.
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My dude.

Please...do not do that. This is a very different quest, by a very different GM.
 
runeblue360 said:
"Hey, I think we should reforge this gromril into something useful. On a completely unrelated note, I'd like the greatest work of Runesmithing physically and metaphysically possible in the current age."

I mean, the implication is pretty clear there. Even the typical an Intrigue 2 Dwarf would get the idea.
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Given it'd also likely end up as a gift to the young Karak's who assisted us, and be, by definition, useful, is that a bad thing?

We did find it, in the black depths of a Skaven stronghold at that.
 
Zaratustra said:
You I am starting to wonder if people are conflating ooc reasoning with Ic reasoning, like ooc we are voting for this based on the idea, but Ic wouldn't it be that Mathield would sugest the remaking of the armor, then go for her sword when she notices the suden avaiabiity of gromril, thus avoiding this problem ?
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One might argue that what they believe are our reasons for a vote might bleed through into Mathilde's reasoning. Personally, I believe that if that were the case Mathilde would at least certainly be more tactful about it than they seem to think she would be, but cannot say one way or another what would actually occur.
runeblue360 said:
"Hey, I think we should reforge this gromril into something useful. On a completely unrelated note, I'd like the greatest work of Runesmithing physically and metaphysically possible in the current age."

I mean, the implication is pretty clear there. Even the typical an Intrigue 2 Dwarf would get the idea.
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Hmm. When put this way, however, given that we already have the favors to spend on it, is it truly so unreasonable, though? We have the reputation, the worth, and the materials all at hand; given that all Gromril is already in use, any we encounter not in an ore vein is going to be under what may as well be the same conditions.

We are essentially the only human who could truly ask for such a thing, and not be making an entirely unreasonable request requiring unattainable resources.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
That's not my understanding of it.

But say it does. Like I posted before, we are missing out on an absolute motherlode of symbolism.

A physical, imperishable symbol of "reforging the past into a brighter future" is a fantastic thing to have.

And say we wait, that still leaves us waiting X+1d3 turns to get it, where X can be 1 or 40, as that's until they find more gromril, and we may even have to spend more favor to acquire it.
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Fair enough. I quite like the symbolism as well, though I want to trust that Belegar would want to use that ideal as well. I'm just slightly uncomfortable with outright advising him on reforging it while we have this request. I'd be down for reforging if we didn't have an item waiting, or if we had asked for the sword and then gone out and gotten the armor set, but I don't know why it feels a bit off to have both show up at once.
 
chocolote12 said:
One might argue that what they believe are our reasons for a vote might bleed through into Mathilde's reasoning. Personally, I believe that if that were the case Mathilde would at least certainly be more tactful about it than they seem to think she would be, but cannot say one way or another what would actually occur.

Hmm. When put this way, however, given that we already have the favors to spend on it, is it truly so unreasonable, though? We have the reputation, the worth, and the materials all at hand; given that all Gromril is already in use, any we encounter not in an ore vein is going to be under what may as well be the same conditions.

We are essentially the only human who could truly ask for such a thing, and not be making an entirely unreasonable request requiring unattainable resources.
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Well, not all Gromril is in use. It's just the Dwarves can't get to the stuff that isn't. There's a bunch around where Karak Varn used to be, but that place is infested with Skaven and Greenskins, and everyone who's tried to restart mining has died, usually within a decade of starting.
 
I can't help but appreciate the wide range of stuff to do, looking at the first turn of the new Karak update, even as a part of me weeps for so much to do so, so little time.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.

Integration of the We with the population of Karak Eight Peaks is a little too hasty at this moment, and I do agree with VSH analysis that the success odds of that from either the Dwarven or Spider side is likely not very high.

[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant

This sounds like a logical choice, given that trade and defense is likely going to be the lifeblood of the Undumgi. This man is likely competent in both.

[ ] [UNDUMGI] Soizic, Bretonnian Questing Knight

Given the traditional antipathy of Bretonnian Nobility toward Ranaldites, with Ranaldites being regarded almost on the level of Chaos Worshipers, I have a suspicion that we'd have to go through a Roswita style roll for Soizic because of this, so it smells more like a "are you feeling lucky" option, as interesting as this option sounds. If it's 100, Soizic would be extremely open-minded for a Bretonnian. If it's 1, she'd regard us as barely better than a Chaos Cultist, and our shrine to Ranald as a grave heresy to be expunged from Karag Nar. No thank you, I don't want that dice roll where a bad roll means a huge AP drain in the future. In any case, I don't want to bound a wandering Questing Knight to an office that likely requires stable and long term leadership - it's not fair to her to be tied down to one place on that level, and it's not fair to the Undumgi. Hard pass, since Mathilde is a Ranaldite.

[ ] [UNDUMGI] Oswald Oswaldson, Imperial veteran

This man should be the Marshall, not the leader of Karag Nar.

[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [RUNE] A 25 favour sword to commemorate Mathilde's part the in retaking of Karak Eight-Peaks.

The narrative-based argument for this combination of options strongly convinces me of this combination. I don't think there's much more I can say that'd convince the opposition to the Armour vote, or to the 25 Favour Sword vote - the case has been made strong enough, and the arguments against it are valid opinions and interpretations to hold, but one I do not share.

[X] [LIBRARY] No purchase.

Why are we blowing through our fortune when we still have a penthouse to build? Sorry, no Purchase for me, until we get a clearer costing estimate of how much the Ideal Penthouse the thread wants should look like. We also need to reserve money for investment into our factory, and possibly expanding our fief. To me, a Library of Romance books, as hilarious as the idea sounds takes far lower priority than building the Penthouse, investing in our factories, attending to our fief, buying instruction in Greatswords or Buying College lessons - all actions that I suspect far more than 29 voters would want to do, all actions that would take money, money that I fear expanding the library now would force us to make hard decisions down the line for things that ironically might allow us to buy an even larger romance library in the future. No thanks, at this moment.

Also, might I suggest that future purchases put upfront the Gold and Favour costs of the proposed purchase, with the vote as registered in the Vote Tally? It would be very helpful for questers to decide if the cost of the purchases are worth it IMO.



Edit: Approval voting this:

[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons

Because it drops my biggest objection to the library vote, the massive outlay on Romance books.

[X] [ENCHANTMENT] No purchase.

I want to see how the Chiselwand Spider situation develops before committing to purchasing enchantment.

[ ] [ENCHANTMENT] Items of Inspiration, Trial and Error, and Law of Logic (eight favours)

@spiritualatheist This one is interesting, but I think an 8 Favour Expenditure is something that needs much more discussion/argumentation/justification to gain any traction. Being an investment for better College Favour farming seems to me to be one of the stronger arguments this expenditure could be justified upon, though the how needs to be elaborated.
 
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quick question for more active people (I don't have time to read 27 pages and growing): is the vote closed? if not, when does it?
 
Andmeuths said:
@spiritualatheist This one is interesting, but I think an 8 Favour Expenditure is something that needs much more discussion/argumentation/justification to gain any traction. Being an investment for better College Favour farming seems to me to be one of the stronger arguments this expenditure could be justified upon, though the how needs to be elaborated.
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Boney clarified that spells of other winds that affect our mental state will do very bad things to our Ulgu-infused brain.

Shadowatcher said:
quick question for more active people (I don't have time to read 27 pages and growing): is the vote closed? if not, when does it?
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The vote closes 24 hours after the last update, unless Boney either isn't in a position to declare it closed or chooses not to.
 
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[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Soizic, Bretonnian Questing Knight
[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
 
Cathon Grimeye said:
*reads update*

*goes to sleep*

*wakes up and reads latest tally*

*realizes that the winning votes include throwing literally hundreds of gold crowns at romance novels, including ones Mathilde can't read*

Nope, I'm out of here.
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You guys just don't understand, they'll appreciate in value!
runeblue360 said:
One day, I hope we're so flush with Favour that we can afford to buy Esoteric romance novels from every nation on the planet, enough for Mathilde to dive into her vault of smut, Scrooge McDuck style.

And then hide the Liber Mortis there.
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Turns out the Liber Mortis is actually the one with the brawny human on the cover and the title of The Blutdorf Bride.

There it hides for many a year, until Mathilde misplaces it during one of her spring reorganizations!

Princess Edda turns it back in during a novel exchange, describing it as 'quite dull.'
 
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