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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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chocolote12 said:
Everybody, please make sure to vote for reusing the armor. Right now even giving it away back to the hold it came from is above using it for our sword, which will result in not using it to create a Gromril sword. That wouldn't be good.
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Seems incredibly selfish to assume that, "It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth," means "used to make Mathilde's magic sword". I assume a worthy commemoration would be like, a statue or something, or maybe medals of honor for everyone who took part.

The thought of melting the armor down with the assumption it will be for Mathilde's personal benefit kind of turns my stomach to be honest.
 
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spiritualatheist said:
Or we could just be really persuasive.
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Given the much lower number of voters for RUNE, in a vote that isn't really being split, that seems unlikely.
bookworm702 said:
Guys, I hate to keep being the voice of moderation, but can we tone down the library a little? I think we can take out 2 or 3 magic topics, and c'mon, we don't even read Brettonian or Tilean. You're just trying to become Queen of the Underground Women's Book Club. Good men died for that silver, and you're spending it on smut.
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Wait, we're spending lots on the Library?

*Checks*

Oh for fuck's sake.

This is now the fourth vote I've made, because I didn't notice people were trying to blow our favours on frivolous shit. I am somewhat more sympathetic to the view that we'll just blow our favours on useless crap if we don't spend them now. It's only because I'm keeping up with the thread right now I've noticed at all.

[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant

[x] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.

[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor.

[X] [RUNE] No purchase.

[X] [ENCHANTMENT] No purchase.

[X] [LIBRARY] No purchase.
 
DarkLight140 said:
The explicit intention when I wrote the vote was for the Brettonian and Tilean romance novels to be the reason Mathilde picks up those languages learning material for expanding her linguistic horizons.
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I kind of figured. It's a good way to learn a language, figure out what literature you like and then buy that literature in different languages.
 
BungieONI said:
My hope is that if reforging does win, which it might not to be fair, that he takes some of those re-forgings and like a sensible king gifts them to Karak Izor, Karak Azul, Karak Norn and all the other Karak's that helped him out and saves the last one for Mathilde.
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That's pretty much the hope, that we'll probably get a swords worth of gromril out of it's a very nice cherry on top/
 
Alratan said:
. I expect that the internal military adviser will be looking for conventional military threats, as all of his employees are incapable of even perceiving magic. Runesmiths learn to use their magic resistance to detect magic, but he won't have any runesmiths under his control.
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I strongly beleive that is not the case. Karak Azul contingent is staying here for several years at least, and they have many runepriests.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [ENCHANTMENT] An item enchanted with Talk With Beast to give to the spiders (3 favors)
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.

Sounds good to me!
 
NSMS said:
Unless you're talking extremely thin/low coverage breastplates and oversized swords at the same time, you can get multiple swords from just the breastplate of a suit of plate armour alone.
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A greatsword could weigh as much as 10 pounds. Even if that's impractical and the actual weight is say, 8, that's still a quarter of a full suit of armour (44ish pounds). You aren't getting multiple out of a suit. Regular swords, sure, but those aren't exactly good weapons for gromril use.
Candesce said:
~40 pounds for armor, and even heavy greatswords only go up to ~7 pounds. Combined with using wooden hafts for axes... yeah, I could see a set of armor being forged into eight weapons.

Still think pushing Belegar into giving us a shinier sword rather than maintaining relations with other dwarf holds is kinda shitty.
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See above for weights. As for that, I have no horse in that race. I don't vote.
 
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [SPIDER] Make no recommendation.
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.
 
bookworm702 said:
Guys, I hate to keep being the voice of moderation, but can we tone down the library a little? I think we can take out 2 or 3 magic topics, and c'mon, we don't even read Brettonian or Tilean. You're just trying to become Queen of the Underground Women's Book Club. Good men died for that silver, and you're spending it on smut.
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Some things are more important than the lives men paid to acquire them, bookworm.

Anyway, we've seen several times that good smut during an Expedition is like cigarettes in prison; somebody always wants 'em and is willing to pay.
 
BoneyM said:
A bit of everything. Some people balance their attention amongst all gods instead of selecting one that best resonates with them.
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Ah. So it is different here. I'd thought from the books I'd read that virtually everyone (with the exception of adherents of a forbidden Sigamrite heresy), did the former, but some of your comments had made me wonder before.
 
I'm pretty sure it's been said that a 25 favour sword could be made with nothing other than gromril, with the possible exception being a different (also extremely rare) magical alloy of the dwarfs.

Assuming that the armour isn't being reforged, there are, frankly, quite a lot of probable locations in and around K8P where you could probably find Gromril in reasonable amounts.

Hordes of orc/goblin/skaven leaders, unopened dwarf treasuries, the anvil-forge at Thunder mountain, the deeps below the citadel, (unlikely) the centre of the warpstone chunk at Karak Wyr, and then there's always the vanishingly unlikely chance of getting it the old fashioned way.

(The reforging of the armour is also kind of this King Belegar's style; it probably won't go over well with the descendants of the armour's last bearer, but melting down the past and making something new is totally something I'd see him doing with the least of promptings. (if he's savvy enough, he could claim the ignorant umgi persuaded him into doing so when rebuked, maybe))
 
Briefvoice said:
Seems incredibly selfish to assume that, "It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth," means "used to make Mathilde's magic sword". I assume a worthy commemoration would be like, a statue or something, or maybe medals of honor for everyone who took part.

The thought of voting the armor down with the assumption it will be for Mathilde's personal benefit kind of turns my stomach to be honest.
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It is actualy pretty natural , remenber our belt ? We made it using the favor from tearing down the castle, so it became an item comemorating that event, to the point if we died whitout an heir Zhufbar would have a claim to it.
It is not selfshiness so much as stablished precedent.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Note, it sort of relies on reforging the armor into a symbol of the reconquest.
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picklepikkl said:
I don't actually agree with this. I think that repatriating the armor to its home Hold and waiting in the queue for a turn or two longer for spare gromril to become available is just as good symbolically. Also, as people have pointed out, the first half of the vote are recommendations to our liege, not unilateral actions. If he thinks it's logistically necessary to reforge the armor to honor us appropriately, he'll do that.
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As a man who always goes to the end of the blue line of Lord powers before touching the orange powers in Total Warhammer, I cannot agree on that our person empowerment would be better than the diplomatic benefits from sending the armor back to its home Hold.

Briefvoice said:
The thought of melting the armor down with the assumption it will be for Mathilde's personal benefit kind of turns my stomach to be honest.
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Yeah, I find it pretty cringy too.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
We have the gromril, the smith and the favours. More than that, we have the narrative.

Those things aren't liable to ever align that perfectly ever again.

[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.

[X] [ENCHANTMENT] No purchase
 
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[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Ah, but it's nowhere near as simple as "wait a turn or two for it to turn up". In fact, getting gromril in a timely manner was a very faint hope. It was always about finding some ourselves.

Lo and behold, Mathilde finds a chunk of it on the first turn.

Like I said, a significant part of the symbolism is that the sword is also the trophy to commemorate our victory.

Making friends with another hold can be done in many other ways. There will be other sets of armor found, for one.

But there's only ever one "first gromril found since the reconquest".
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Thank you for the correction; like I said, I don't really know the setting.

That said, I think the symbolic value of "Belegar reclaims K8P and restores the first great treasure found there to its rightful owners in another hold" is better than the symbolic value of "Belegar gives the third great hero of the reconquest a weapon worthy of her heroic stature among dwarfkind," so if those are mutually exclusive, that's what I'd prefer.
 
Alratan said:
Ah. So it is different here. I'd thought from the books I'd read that virtually everyone (with the exception of adherents of a forbidden Sigamrite heresy), did the former, but some of your comments had made me wonder before.
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Almost everyone will pay proper respect to Gods in their place, such as thanking Rhya for a healthy birth or praying to Morr for the dead, but most people will have one god they follow primarily. The most common is Sigmar.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Given the much lower number of voters for RUNE, in a vote that isn't really being split, that seems unlikely.

Wait, we're spending lots on the Library?

*Checks*

Oh for fuck's sake.

This is now the fourth vote I've made, because I didn't notice people were trying to blow our favours on frivolous shit. I am somewhat more sympathetic to the view that we'll just blow our favours on useless crap if we don't spend them now. It's only because I'm keeping up with the thread right now I've noticed at all.

[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant

[x] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.

[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor.

[X] [RUNE] No purchase.

[X] [ENCHANTMENT] No purchase.

[X] [LIBRARY] No purchase.
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The currently winning Library vote shouldn't cost any favors; favors only kick in at the Obscure and above level (at least from my reading). The only purchases which could cost favors (Imperial magic texts, and all the Dwarf books) are currently capping at Extensive.

At the same time, it is in my opinion still a bit excessive. I've modified it a bit;

[-] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Obscure Romance Novels, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
A greatsword could weigh as much as 10 pounds. Even if that's impractical and the actual weight is say, 8, that's still a quarter of a full suit of armour (44ish pounds). You aren't getting multiple out of a suit.
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Greatsword = 10;
Armor = 44;
Armor / Greatsword = 4.4;
Is 4.4 > 1? Yes.

How do you figure?
Harried said:
I'm pretty sure it's been said that a 25 favour sword could be made with nothing other than gromril,
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No, it was said we'd need to spend at least ten of them, and supply the Gromril ourselves. Well, we are, and we did.
ichypa said:
As a man who always goes to the end of the blue line of Lord powers before touching the orange powers in Total Warhammer, I cannot agree on that our person empowerment would be better than the diplomatic benefits from sending the armor back to its home Hold.
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There'll be far more than one weapon's worth of the stuff left behind. Making it into multiple weapons to send out is just as diplomatic.
 
BungieONI said:
My hope is that if reforging does win, which it might not to be fair, that he takes some of those re-forgings and like a sensible king gifts them to Karak Izor, Karak Azul, Karak Norn and all the other Karak's that helped him out and saves the last one for Mathilde.
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And ours is the biggest 'cuz he likes us the best~
Deathbybunnies said:
This is now the fourth vote I've made, because I didn't notice people were trying to blow our favours on frivolous shit. I am somewhat more sympathetic to the view that we'll just blow our favours on useless crap if we don't spend them now. It's only because I'm keeping up with the thread right now I've noticed at all.
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I mean... I guess, if pluses on rolls is frivolous shit to you?

We roll a lot. Little +5 bonuses add up quick.
 
I see that the power-gaming, immersion-breaking cabal has gained steam. Ugh.

[X] [RUNE] No purchase.
[X] [RUNE] 10 favour sword
[X] [RUNE] 15 favour sword

I can't even be bothered to vote for the remaining options, I am so frustrated.

I think I'll take a rest from the thread for a day or so, before I write something that I will regret.
 
picklepikkl said:
Thank you for the correction; like I said, I don't really know the setting.

That said, I think the symbolic value of "Belegar reclaims K8P and restores the first great treasure found there to its rightful owners in another hold" is better than the symbolic value of "Belegar gives the third great hero of the reconquest a weapon worthy of her heroic stature among dwarfkind," so if those are mutually exclusive, that's what I'd prefer.
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I mean it's not just that it would be Belegar commissioning weapons forged anew to presumably the greatest contributors from each of the holds as well.

Horium said:
I see that the power-gaming, immersion-breaking cabal has gained steam. Ugh.
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Right, that's incredibly unfair and very good narrative reasons have been provided for this choice as well.
 
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