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While I agree that the spiders could be a powerful ally (assuming we either get an Amber Wizard or an enchantment for "Talk to Beasts"), I do think that there are significant downsides to having them actually be a part of the multi-cultural community of Karak-Eight-Peaks. At least, in the beginning.

Spiders are unnerving for people, and giant spiders even more so. Also, it would be an incredibly radical move by a King who is already considered to be a bit radical in the eyes of Karaz-a-Karak.
 
So @Alratan in my opinion while I can see where you are coming from with the desire for a max killy sword, I think the biggest issue is the sacrificing of versatility for it. Namely we are likely going to get more bang out of the Dwarven favor by investing it in other things than blowing most of it on a sword.

We'll have 13 favour left over assuming we literally get no more ever again. I am highly skeptical of the idea that we'll never get more given how much more work there is to do here. Also look at how expensive other favour actions are. Four favour would only be +5 to certain types of rolls for instance for books.

It looks like dwarven favour when spent all at once has a massively greater effect than if you parcel it out piece meal.
 
striking our legend into stone
We know you mean gromril. :V
A sword with three superlative, never-before-seen Runes made by Master Runesmith Kragg the Grim is entirely sufficient to our needs, and that's what we get at 15 Favor.
Not that I'm hardcore in the 25-or-bust camp by any means, but I think I recall someone here saying Talismans like our belt run on a lower 'scale' than weapons. Capstone 'power' in one category isn't necessarily the same as the other.
You'd need to experiment to know for sure but the gentlest scenario would be 'extremely explosive'.
Mathilde, eying Kvinn-wyr thoughtfully "Belegar, how firmly committed are you to the Eight peaks aspect of the Karak name?"
I would love to see if we can affect warpstones with our new knowledge.
How would we best broach our new expert knowledge of Dhar to Johann the Spy, I wonder?
and spider resolution,
I hope we don't get Favour for just doing our job-as-paid-for.
Mad, runaway, amazing success maybe, but this with the spiders wasn't quite that.
 
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You're mocking the person quoting and doing nothing else. It's hard to take it as a misunderstanding. You're not trying to engage in the points he's making either. His perspective is perfectly fine and isn't laughable considering we're comissioning the weapon we're likely to be using until the point where Mathilde either dies or retires.
I've made it clear from the start that I found the whole thing amusing, and I'd already explained why in the previous post why I felt those points were ridiculous. I've also previously mentioned- in the post that started the whole thing, in response to you in fact- that I get why people want a 25 favour sword.

Basically, it's not the 'we need a powerful weapon' idea that amuses me, it's the 'any weapon that is not the absolute most powerful we can afford is garbage' attitude that amuses me for its complete (to me) absurdity. I am genuinely sorry if that came across as mocking or insulting, because that wasn't how I intended it; not as an insult, but a demonstrative/illustrative way of showing how I felt the idea was ridiculous, that I felt would be clear considering my previous posts outlining my thoughts. That doesn't seem to have come across, hence the apology and explanation here.

To everybody else: I apologise for this derail, and will cease posting on this topic now.
 
Well, it's certainly peculiar, especially considering that most legendary lords outside of, like, Literally Nagash Alone, are either doing one thing or another, not trying to be legendary warrior, wizard, researcher and priest at once.

Pretty much all the high end dark elves fall in that bucket.
There are still six more peaks to conquer.

And Karak Drazh, and Thunder Mountain, and then Iron Rock, and then...

The dwarfs have been in a perpetual war since the Time of Woe. Their war never ends, and basically neither does Mathilde.

I'm not trying to flame bait, I just literally find the arguments of 'any weapon that is not absolute top-tier beyond-legendary is inadequate', and 'we should be setting up Mathilde to solo the most dangerous and powerful beings in the setting' hilarious. I'm not trying to provoke a response, or piss people off, it's just how I feel on the topic.

If not Mathilde, then who has the right combination of martial training, incredible stealth and infiltration ability, and has the potential to get a super-killy weapon?

Anar Anath, if he still exists? Apart from that, on the side of Order, there's possibly literally only Mathilde. Maybe some wood elves, if they count. Maybe. They probably can't get a good enough weapon. Mathilde has the potential for the right combination of abilities and equipment to do a huge amount of good here by taking out very hard targets when they're at their softest. And doing this would still leave her with thirteen dwarf favours and plenty of potential to earn more.
 
That's a very large straw-man you're creating there, particularly as Mathilde was fully prepared to cause disruption by stealing an exceptionally valuable artifact. It's not that we don't need planning or preparation with a bigger sword, but that with a bugger sword planning and preparation allows us to achieve vastly more because Mathilde is likely to be the one person who can be in the right place at the right time to apply the right amount of force, but with a lesser weapon she often won't be able to apply that right amount of force.

Stealing could have been done by any Skaven, they have zero reason to suspect humans.

Greatsword murder, even if we manage to somehow get a Skaven big honcho alone with no eyewitness for long enough to kill, is different from any Skaven weapon. Skaven are ridiculously backstabby, but are capable of uniting against sufficiently dangerous external enemy. Would Mathilde risk even the slightest chance of being this unifying external enemy?
Anyway, I think that the giant sword may be a problem of fighting the previous war.

We've just come from a prolonged period of continuous conflicts and battles, and are still adjusting to the councellor style play.
The sword would have been massively useful in the conquest of K8P, but it's going to be considerably less useful in the future.

Most of our actions will not involve going out and stabbing people. We're playing court wizard, not the saboteur/assasin we were in the previous turn.

Before hiatus, the quest had ~60 votes, IIRC. Now it has 300.
4/5th of voterbase literally only participated in "murderhobo" phase of it. I am pretty sure that's one of factors behind popularity of swordy plans, although I am not 100% on it..

Another part of voterbase, apparently, wants a sword specifically because it would let us do more going out and stabbing. They call it "making the most influence"; I am tempted to call it "wandered into Mathilde quest and decided they want to make Markus the Greatsword quest out of it". Not invalid per se, but...they should really be more aware that not everyone wants to go out and stab stuff in the face every damn turn.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor

At the risk of getting fixated on minutia with the Favor Sword- I have to say looking at the runes, the combo; Master Rune of Snorri Spangelhelm, Rune of Might, and Rune of Parrying really appeals to me as a sort of rough guide. It's pretty solid mechanically but the thematics are top notch- that's not a sword for a skilled duelist, it's not a sword of some peerless hero, it's a sword that lets a person stand against a monster. A blade that would let a peasant kick some serious ass so long as they can swing.

Against weaker enemies all it would really do is make us hit more often and be harder to hit. But against a monster; a Vampire, Dragon Ogre, or an Orc Warboss? All that but suddenly hitting like a truck. A weapon that will be at it's weakest when turned towards people, but never stronger when facing the kind of gribblies mortals are ill equipped for. A gift given not in acknowledgement of our martial prowess, but that we were there and willing to act. A tribute to the hope that Belegar's faction ardently believes not by virtue of sheer strength or raw power but the conviction to march against their enemies in spite of that. Something about having a sword that's incredibly good and useful, but in such a way that it's obviously not intended for a particularly skilled swordswoman has a visceral appeal, and for people afraid of the sword sort of obligating Mathilde into becoming more of a traditional fighter, if nothing else I think this combo can attest to different possibilities in that regard.

It's awesome for going after key figures, doesn't give a shit about how good Mathilde actually is with a blade (except for the purposes of making her harder to hit, which is still pretty useful), and makes her tankier by virtue of being harder to hit. I imagine some hypothetical fog spells we develop in the future could stack with that last one if we really wanted to capitalize on it. Not too worried about chaff because of things like Dread Presence and Burning Shadows. It is also amusingly enough an elf's dream come true in terms of how useful it is for one of them.

And that's

There's a hilarious opportunity cost that people against the Rune Weapon are completely ignoring. Namely, we need to spend favors to get anything out of them. Apart from blowing all our Dwarf favors on books and the like it's going to cost us actions to get Dwarf tutelage or commission Dwarfs' to help us build something elsewhere, or any number of things.

It will take turns upon turns of dedicating actions to Dwarf Favors to clear them out. Actions where we're not actually exploring our existent options. A commission is one and done, a hugely useful piece that we don't need to spend a bunch of time and energy to utilize.
 
It would be one spider speaking. All of them being capable would be a hell of an undertaking to do with magic. But you could just teach them to write and hand out chalk or something.
Okay, so we know that Belegar can commission items for Spider Diplomats, so we probably won't need to shell out for that if we convince him of their utility, and the spiders can learn to read and write on their own, so magic isn't required, it's just a shortcut.

Communicating complex concepts to them might be hard, but the results would be entirely worth it, and simply cultivating them as another ally of Order is ridiculously good. Let's not pass up the chance for the Karak, and eventually other places in the empire, assuming we spread these guys around, to field Giant Spider units.

I want these friends. Let's not pass them up.
 
How do we best broach our new expert knowledge of Dhar to Johann the Spy, I wonder?
I don't think we should, to be honest. I feel that any experimentation with warpstone and our ability to make it implode should be done secretly and in a very secure location. Manipulating a physical manifestation of dhar is going to lead to questions we don't want to be answered.
 
No, see the point is this: being too successful makes you a target, this is true, but comes with all the abilities that made you that successful to begin with. You pick up a 25 point weapon, and you are delaring yourrself to be in the same League as Magnus the Pious in terms of fighting ability. And Mat just isn't there. She's fit and good, but not Warhero fighting the Everchosen face to face good. She'll never be that good. She spends too much time doing Wizard stuff. If your going to spend 25 points on a tool for matilde, make it a staff. Ask Kragg to make her somthing that helps her control her wind.
Okay firstly Kragg can't make her something to help control her wind of magic, that's literally not something in the dwarven lexicon of runes, it might have been pre war of the beard but they've lost most of their runic knowledge from that time period.

Matt isn't much different from the typical empire Captain in the imperial army in terms of ability.

Code:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 4 4 4 5 3 4 2 8

Above is Mathilde.

Below is an empire Captain.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 5 5 4 4 2 5 3 8

Mathild is already at the tier of a hero tier front line fighter, what makes humans fight at the lord tier is their war gear.

She out classes even the top tier of humans in toughness and she has a lord characters wound levels. That's perword of god equivalent.

Again, the best human front line fighters are that because of their wargear.
 
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I don't think we should, to be honest. I feel that any experimentation with warpstone and our ability to make it implode should be done secretly and in a very secure location. Manipulating a physical manifestation of dhar is going to lead to questions we don't want to be answered.
Plus, by its very nature it's going to be dangerous and unpredictable to the extreme. I'd be perfectly happy to shove it into the 'use in the event of apocalypse' box, along with things like actually practising necromancy.
 
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We have 38 Dwarven Favour currently, we're looking at being able to get more and I'll bet we earned more recovering that suit of armour as well. There's very strong opportunity costs to getting the best weapon we can now. You may have missed previous discussion but we're liable to use this sword until the character dies we'll never find a faction that's capable of forging a better weapon for us as even the High Elves can't match the Dwarves when it comes to magical weapons.
I mean... if we go to Lustria... we might be able to get an Old One weapon, which would effectively be a 40k weapon, like a power sword. I mean, I have no idea what kind of absurdity would be required to get the Lizardmen to agree to let us have something like that, but ya know, they would be able to provide better than the dwarfs.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor
 
Personally, I would let the spiders go. Too much of a headache for a questionable amount of worth.
I don't see them meshing with either dwarfs or humans at all.

Hm, Oswald seems like a martial/diplomacy hybrid, Tilean as a martial/steward and Bretonnian Dame as primary martial, secondary piety.

I would pick either the Nulner or the Tilean as the pragmatic choice, but all of the options are good enough to make it work.

Gromril I would leave to dwarfs to decide, though sending it to its old hold sends quite the message, and for multiple reasons, not the least of which is that K8P believes in itself and its mandate of restoration so strongly, that it's willing to return such a valuable object to a more established hold even in a such precarious situation as possessing only a quarter of its original territory.
 
I'd like to point out that a Weapon 25 Favor is not just a chance to build Mathilde's legend, it's a chance to build Kragg's.

How often do you think Kragg gets the opportunity to completly guilt-free say "And on this day, I'm going to take my skill to its limit and show those whippersnappers what real runecraft looks like!"
I am in favour of a 25 favour weapon. I did not read the full discussion on the matter, but the axe with grounding rod appealed, provided the rod is not one use and explodes or something. Alternatively sword is ok, I suppose.

The point I want to make is this:

If we go for a 25 favour weapon, please, please, can we call it Dissaproval?
 
Of interesting note, is that until we did the investigation underneath the Citadel, there was really no evidence of Clan Skyre. Which indicates to me that they haven't been very successful in moving east from their more western holdings. It could be that the three clans are in an uneasy stalemate, but given that Clan Mors isn't actually a major clan, I have doubts in their ability to really influence the fighting more than fighting on the fringes and keeping the other two major clans fighting each other.
 
So @Alratan in my opinion while I can see where you are coming from with the desire for a max killy sword, I think the biggest issue is the sacrificing of versatility for it. Namely we are likely going to get more bang out of the Dwarven favor by investing it in other things than blowing most of it on a sword.

The thing is, most of the other things we can get with dwarf favour we can get piecemeal as we gradually earn more, which should be at a faster rate because of the sword. Even if not, we can't afford actions for training at the moment, and can probably get training as we make dwarven friends. Books make a marginal difference, but we can just get books from other cultures for now.

Because every fucking debate by quest voters is going to become "how do we justify this 25-favor runic hammer, someone point out the nearest nail."

That's not happened with the belt, so why the sword? It's not happened with the Seed of Rebirth either. These were both massive expenditures at the time, but didn't produce the reaction you're suggesting.
 
I mean... if we go to Lustria... we might be able to get an Old One weapon, which would effectively be a 40k weapon, like a power sword. I mean, I have no idea what kind of absurdity would be required to get the Lizardmen to agree to let us have something like that, but ya know, they would be able to provide better than the dwarfs.

Should I have prefaced that with "Remotely realistically"? I mean we could get Widowmaker from the high elves but that's not a reasonable comparison we have the favour now. We don't have that.
 
Another part of voterbase, apparently, wants a sword specifically because it would let us do more going out and stabbing. They call it "making the most influence"; I am tempted to call it "wandered into Mathilde quest and decided they want to make Markus the Greatsword quest out of it". Not invalid per se, but...they should really be more aware that not everyone wants to go out and stab stuff in the face every damn turn.
I'm well aware of your preference, this doesn't obligate me to set aside my preferences for yours.

Also, given that Mathilde has literally spent her time training Greatswording since the first arc it's a bit disingenuous to say that getting her a better Greatsword somehow changes her character arc.
 
Remind me again, has Mathilde ever been in a situation where she needed something better than a regular greatsword?

And no, the fall of Abel doesn't count. What was lacking there was defensive capability, not offensive.
 
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