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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BoneyM said:
Sort of half dhar, half divine.
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hehehehehehehehe.

I know their magic is half divine... but I'm just imagining us literally causing the Skaven weapon crews and artillery to implode and cause a cascade effect across their entire army because they use warpstones, which, to my understanding, is solidified dhar, to power their technology.

When Johann comes back and we start going through Skyre technology, I would love to see if we can affect warpstones with our new knowledge.
 
BoneyM said:
3 for Reikspiel, but no Ambers speak Khazalid so there's no magical solution for that.
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Would this be for a 'one spider has it, that spider can speak it' item, or a 'one spider has it, all spiders can speak it' item? Because the latter is what I'm interested in.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight
Peaks.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [UNDUMGI] Soizic, Bretonnian Questing Knight
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons.
 
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[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.

[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant

[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation
 
Strange9 said:
Huh, I wonder if they're fighting (at least in part) over the warpstone in Kvynn-wyr.

One quick note: the spider's M.O. (which they'll probably keep doing absent a lot of action on K8P's part) is to move periodically when fighting skaven and to create a secure nest when fighting Greenskin's. As I see it, this leads to something like:

Skaven:
+ -- spiders are going to be very good at killing the small rats that accompany skaven, and the skaven are somewhat used to these spiders (see the mention of other hives). That means we avoid the worst case scenario of 'all three clans get disturbed by dwarfs picking off some assets and pivot to fight us'
+ -- helps deal with the skaven, who seem to be the major threat we havent dealt with thus far.
+/-- -- They won't have a stable home base, which will make maintaining contact and supply lines difficult. This could be good (keeps a foreign polity we just met weak) or very bad (keeps an ally against existential threats weak).

Whereas the pros and cons for greenskins are basically the opposite.
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If we integrate them we can have an endless supply of spooky tunnel fighters that basically cost us a safe place for them to sleep.
atrophy said:
About spiders , if they are being kept around then we would have to acquire a amber mage probably atleast a magister for it to work out and even then its abit iffy and here the dwarfs would have to ask the amber college not us probably so it isnt super realistic.
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Angelform said:
Tempting as 'add to civ' might be… we need Amber Wizards to communicate with them. Unless we could get a couple of dozen 'item of permanent Speak With Beast' we can't really interact much.
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BoneyM said:
How much would a 'let a hive mind of animals speak to humans/dwarves/whatevers' item cost?
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3 for Reikspiel, but no Ambers speak Khazalid so there's no magical solution for that.
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We don't need a bunch of magic items, only one. Dwarves know Reikspiel, or at least enough of them that it wouldn't be a trouble for interaction, usually.
 
So I wanna talk/gush about the book traits:
-Advanced Morrite Lore : Likely the human equivalent for what we could have gotten from the Gazul priest. Maybe one trait evolution down. Potentially very useful, practically it's probably just going to be a +1 to learning.
-1. Secret: Neat enough, but chances are we'll never actually use it. Like, maybe if we ever have a bad miscast, but I doubt it. From the sounds of it, it has to be done very methodically and carefully. Chances are, pretty much every spell cast like that would have a miscast chance.
-2. Secret: Now this is jackpot. We can now seriously fuck up undead armies, and likely dhar spell casters in general. Might have to be used with care though, that sort of prowess does run into the suspicious. Though on the other hand, Mathilde has already shown a talent for dispelling, and ruining an army with it, so I think it can be justified.

So, one interesting but not immediately useful, one powerful but unusable, and one dangerous but potentially critical. Pretty good for the first round of reading.

Also, Mathilde is more and more shaping up to be less of an active spell caster on the war stage, and more magic denial. Which might be actually an unexplored application for wizards. Imagine if every army had a dozen journeymen whose job was to dispel. They are much more plenty full than high level caster, but enough will probably shut one down anyway. Something to consider.

Something else to consider: Might it be possible to teach something like the 2nd secret without teaching the first? It would be something for the far future, and would have to be very carefully managed, but it could be an absolute gamechanger. GG necromancers, now bother someone that can't easily shut you down.
Of course, my bet is that further secrets teach how to harden against that effect, so I wouldn't try it against Nagash, but it did work against Manfred, who isn't exactly a pushover.
 
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Alratan said:
If we had a twenty five point runeweapon our options and choices are likely to be different. We can take a more aggressive path to chasing down skaven leaders for example.

The fact that Mathilde didn't hunt them down or look for targets of opportunity to kill or destroy shows the need for the runeweapon, as she doesn't feel confident that she can with her current toolkit.
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I would prefer Mathilde to work more as a scout who kills enemies when presented with a good opportunity, than as an assassin.

That's part of why I am opposed to a legendary weapon. It would do too much to define Mathilde.

Basically, it would define her as a killer, while I regard the establishing of communications with the Spiders as one of the greatest successes we had recently.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.
This wouldn't be an option if Mathilde didn't think it was viable. There are no trap options. (with the obvious caveat of dhar/necromancy stuff)
[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
 
Alratan said:
How would people know that it was a 25 favour weapon rather than a 5, 10, or 15 one, or any other weapon with three runes?
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Favors are social capital, rumors, good will and so on. The very nature of the favors as something that is spread through Dwarven society (and not a coin you can lock in your pocket) means that you can't keep it quiet. If the weapon is as impressive as you want it to be, it will be talked about as being incredibly impressive.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
The rune from Kragg that we want is the S10 one. Also what the hell else would we spend the favour on, books are explicitly not worth the favour cost as we can often replicate the boost they would give by simply getting information from a wider variety of sources. So that leaves personal training which we can get from friends for free most likely and other runic expenditures.
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Collaborating with a Rune Lord on a project, such as Snakejuice.
Being able to walk into any Hold in the world and go 'Hey mind if I talk with your folks/borrow your library/check out your grand feats of engineering?'
Helping to convince Dwarfholds to send forces to places they're likely to settle grudges.
The difference between 15 and 25 is also the level of finding the literal best dwarf in the world at X topic and having them teach us. It's the Dwarvish equivalent of having a Patriarch on tap whenever we want.
 
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[X] [SPIDER] The We can be allowed to scutter off into the Underway, never to be seen again.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor.
[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [LIBRARY] Extensive library of romance novels (Both imperial and dwarf)
[X] [LIBRARY] Language primers for Tilean and Brettonian dialects
[X] [ENCHANTMENT] Item from the College of the Heavens to allow for floating from a great height to the earth safely, should Mathilde leap from her tower top.
 
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NSMS said:
If we're ever in a situation where we need to solo something like that in a straight fight, something has gone horribly horribly wrong. To the point that I honestly wouldn't consider it worth accounting for; if you want to try and prep Mathilde for encounters on that level, we should also be trying to prep her for soloing Bloodthirsters and the like.

And this still does nothing to change the fact that describing a 15 favour weapon using the phrase 'only' is absurd enough to make me laugh.
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Mathilde should be actively hunting down and trying to kill enemies like that, as it's much better than facing them on the open field or having them come to her. Azorgaron the Black is literally sleeping inside Thunder Mountain and Mathilde with a super-killy weapon is one of the vvery few people that would be able to sneak inside and put an end to him.

Mathilde shouldn't be soling bloodthirsters, because they pretty much manifest on the field of battle, but she should be prepping to kill Bonegrinder Giants or Dragons after sneaking up on them when they're asleep, as that's when they're most vulnerable and doing so makes an enormous difference, and it's something that a Runefang would be completely inadequate for.

10ebbor10 said:
Favors are social capital, rumors, good will and so on. The very nature of the favors as something that is spread through Dwarven society (and not a coin you can lock in your pocket) means that you can't keep it quiet. If the weapon is as impressive as you want it to be, it will be talked about as being incredibly impressive.
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Have we seen any evidence of this in quest so far, with any mention being made by anyone at all of the belt?
 
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[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.

I'd like to point out that there is a fuck huge abyss we could have built our tower over. which we could really use a colony of friendly spiders to block off.


[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.


[] [RUNE] A rune sword worth 25 points, whatever Thorek/Kragg/whoever, think is most suitable for someone who war on the forces of disorder and their works from the shadows
[] [RUNE] Weapon 25 Favor
 
BurnNote said:
-2. Secret: No this is jackpot. We can now seriously fuck up undead armies, and likely dhar spell casters in general. Might have to be used with care though, that sort of prowess does run into the suspicious. Though on the other hand, Mathilde has already shown a talent for dispelling, and ruining an army with it, so I think it can be justified.
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Possibly not just undead, but anything that uses dhar. Which... might include Skaven technology. Being able to just cause their weapon crews, guns, and warpthrowers to just implode with a properly timed poke of magic will literally save untold number of Dwarven lives.
 
10ebbor10 said:
Favors are social capital, rumors, good will and so on. The very nature of the favors as something that is spread through Dwarven society (and not a coin you can lock in your pocket) means that you can't keep it quiet. If the weapon is as impressive as you want it to be, it will be talked about as being incredibly impressive.
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You'd get that effect happening from 10 favours as well. You're still talking about comission an item from a rune smith lord and kicking literally every one else on his list of people he needs to make an item for down a notch. Also Dwarves are pretty tight lipped to outsiders how is it going to spread?
 
Quest said:
Fair enough. I'm actually considering introducing the spiders to Wolf. Someone has to teach the spiders about customs and cultures and Wolf can learn at the same time.
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Be warned. That ways lies morning walks with a hundred spiders.

SuperSonicSound said:
You'd get that effect happening from 10 favours as well. You're still talking about comission an item from a rune smith lord and kicking literally every one else on his list of people he needs to make an item for down a notch. Also Dwarves are pretty tight lipped to outsiders how is it going to spread?
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TBF, anyone who can't pick up on rumors about a powerful artefact being created for Mathilde isn't going to be capable of stealing from a Grey Wizard.
 
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Angelform said:
Tempting as 'add to civ' might be… we need Amber Wizards to communicate with them. Unless we could get a couple of dozen 'item of permanent Speak With Beast' we can't really interact much.
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People keep saying that, but i do not think it is true. The We seem amazingly intelligent, to the point where they can identify and avoid the use of concepts that aren't properly translated by the 'Speak With Beast'. I would not be surprised if They are also intelligent enough to remember the "Sounds with Meaning" in Reikspiel that they made themselves, so they can probably keep understanding us if we use the words and sentence structure they used before. Full scale communication with them is just a question of teaching them a language or code that doesn't require vocal cords, like writing or a customized sign-language.
 
Abby Normal said:
Ok so i've had this question burning in my head since my reread, and didn't ask largely because the arguments over the book were terrible, but now that that question is settled, i have to ask...if the Liber Mortis is nonmagical, with its power coming from the insights inside, not any enchantments...why are copies any worse? Like, i get that most copies are incomplete, but my understanding from the thread was that the 'main' copy the Grand Theogonist has was complete (or at least mostly so), so what makes it inferior?
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Not quite, no copy save the one we have is complete, because this is the one Vanhells made, the next one was made by his murderous apprentice, who did not want to be murdered in turn so he added in some errors and traps, but of course it was not enough and the process repeats itself again and again and again...

Somewhere along the line, probably reasonably close to the original, the cult of Sigmar gets a copy. That is what the Empire has.
 
Alratan said:
If we had a twenty five point runeweapon our options and choices are likely to be different. We can take a more aggressive path to chasing down skaven leaders for example.

The fact that Mathilde didn't hunt them down or look for targets of opportunity to kill or destroy shows the need for the runeweapon, as she doesn't feel confident that she can with her current toolkit.
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Alternatively, it shows her being on scouting mission and thus not willing to trip an alarm without a good idea of "why" and "how to get out".

She did not set out to assassinate Skaven leadership because she had no idea where to begin looking at it. YOLOing into the nest without a map, a target and a plan would be suicidal with any sword.

As an aside, mindset of "we would not need planning and preparation if we just had a BIGGER SWORD" is a part of the reason I am not enthusiastic about the big sword-plans.
 
jjffjhjf said:
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.
This wouldn't be an option if Mathilde didn't think it was viable. There are no trap options. (with the obvious caveat of dhar/necromancy stuff)
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Viable does not mean 'easy', 'cost efficient' or 'culturally acceptable'. It can be done, no question about it. Question is "Is it a good option"?

Given amount of effort required to integrate giant spiders in dwarven society, I rather doubt it.
 
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