Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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[X] Plan Into the Roots

I like both leading plans, but upon second thought, I think I value the bright college for anti beastmen forest combat more.

Being able to arrange controlled forest fires is a fantastic trump in that environment.
Add to that the generally primative equipment of beastmen, and bright wizards seem even better.

If the stats in quest are related to warhammer tabletop, then I'm reasonably sure that the beastmen also struggle with poor leadership, as well as poor armor. That furthers the utility gap even more.

I'm happy that were bringing in gold researchers. Since that option, and all of the obviously appealing diplomacy options are in both leading plans, I feel comfortable voting on a single issue.
 
[X] Plan Into the Roots
Gold wizards can wait a turn and I want to get our second greatship up and running... my goal is about 10 total for our fleet and hopefully prove it is worth it to other Electors.

Think about it when Nordland and Kislev start making cannon armed greatships that should actually be a major source of income... we might want to research cannon improvements for fighting on the water.


A thought, would it be worth it to have a ship equiped with a Barrel Thrower? On the one hand these are incendiary and we don't have explosive shells yet for cannon, on the other hand Barrel Thrower's are indirect weapons so I question if the range would be worth while, and they probably take up a lot of space. I wonder if we can develop them into a form of shell
 
me.me.here said:
Yeah, but with all the other magic users we've been integrating into our armies our soldiers aren't exactly the average viewpoint anymore, and from an external perspective someone turning a group of enemies into popsicles isn't too different from turning a group of enemies to statues and so on. Magic is freaky in general, but having read through the list Gold College spells in particular don't really have especially disconcerting effects compared to other magic that's been thrown around in our fights before.
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The problem here is in the way Chamon warps the mind of it's users and how full Gold Magister views other people around them. It's not their power that is creepy in and of itself like with the Amber College and them turning the leadership into howling beasts, it's how a Gold Magister will use their power: It's no comfort that this Mage dressed in Gold is telling you that the most efficient way to use their spell was to kill a few of your friends alongside the enemies because that resulted in much more attrition for the enemy then for your army, oh and now if you'll excuse the Mage they need to go melt down all these statues (including what is left of your friends) down for resources. It's the callousness and disregard for life that Chamon causes in it's users that will be the source of problems here.
 
Adding the Bright College after just integrating the Amber wizards and starting with the Gold college seems like a bit much. We should be getting the Gold journeymen in Ostland as part of their integration sooner rather than later.
 
spudman said:
Adding the Bright College after just integrating the Amber wizards and starting with the Gold college seems like a bit much. We should be getting the Gold journeymen in Ostland as part of their integration sooner rather than later.
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We are not starting with the Gold College though? We are allowing the Gold College access to the Titan canon for study, not hiring them for combat in 'Plan into the roots'.

So we would be starting on the Bright College for combat after/during integrating the Amber WIzards. Leaving the Gold wizards out of combat lines, I'm not seeing a problem here.
 
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Y'Know, Considering its location and the soldiers based there with their families. We might want to put a third Greatship In Gauschdorf when the port facilities and defenses there are sufficient enough to accommodate it.
 
Dmol8 said:
The problem here is in the way Chamon warps the mind of it's users and how full Gold Magister views other people around them. It's not their power that is creepy in and of itself like with the Amber College and them turning the leadership into howling beasts, it's how a Gold Magister will use their power: It's no comfort that this Mage dressed in Gold is telling you that the most efficient way to use their spell was to kill a few of your friends alongside the enemies because that resulted in much more attrition for the enemy then for your army, oh and now if you'll excuse the Mage they need to go melt down all these statues (including what is left of your friends) down for resources. It's the callousness and disregard for life that Chamon causes in it's users that will be the source of problems here.
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Pretty sure this problem could be solved with convicts. this is Warhammer, I doubt too many people would complain.
 
REAPER35 said:
Pretty sure this problem could be solved with convicts. this is Warhammer, I doubt too many people would complain.
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Yeah, and? Why are you ignoring my point which is that we will need Action(s) to get the Gold Magisters integrated and that we will need less of an Action(s) to get the Bright Magisters integrated which is why I choose them in my plan?
 
Because those actions will eventually need to be spent for both. right now we don't really need the money, and personally, I think we would be better served by biting the bullet and investing the action to get integration started. I have no problem with integrating the bright mages. starting that process is a good idea. they use a diplo action. I think the personal action spent on gold would be better spent on integration than on making money since we are using several other actions for more long term income, and don't need more money right now. an immediate army boost seems more useful to me at the moment than some gold that will sit in our treasury and some future actions that won't benefit us for a few years after they have eaten a few more actions if old metal even generates new actions.

Having said that, I think you have the most agreeable plan. I'd prefer that the gold vote was changed to integration and that the science of war was changed to the morr option, but I'm not too fussed about either. I wouldn't mind hiring the rest of the mercs and sending them to reinforce Averland. Again that's not critical. your plan has the important parts: laying roads, the undercity, bayonets, new port, a greatship, agri buff. It's a good plan and I'm happy enough with it.
 
That reminded me. Why are all the plan-makers insisting on Science of War (which hardly seems urgent) vs Mountain Garden, when the option states that there is a low-key fear "epidemic" due to the pirate tomb king?
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Counterpoint: Skaven technology and Doomspheres work just fine. As has been previously espoused by the QM, Warhammer technology is a little fuzzy on technicalities.
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Doomspheres aren't manned and tend to explode when properly functioning... getting to reuse them without a rebuild is lucky. They keep the engineering core in the field quite busy.
Skaven technology tend to explode and not having to rebuild them after each use is lucky. Skaven really, really don't care if other Skaven die using their own tech. Skaven tech uses warp stone/magic/warp stone/a complete disregard for the operator safety/warp stone/trial and error costing huge amounts of Skaven lives to get the results the do.

Freddy cares if his troops die (specifically) from using his state issued equipment. So having the tank crew die after every shot is a major design failure for him.

The problems with TC tanks are:
-Recoil is still a thing: There is nowhere for the recoil of the TC to go except through the tank itself. The techs to handle the this level of recoil aren't yet a thing. Cannons in universe and reality have a percent chance to explode that increases with low maintenance levels.
-Bombards, like TC take forever to load: We are not talking about breach loaders with premade shells here. We are talking about muzzle loaded bombards. Those things are an ogre and half long. Average around 8 foot tall are standard ogres... which means 12 feet in length or more.
-The steamtanks themselves aren't that long so you'd need remove the boiler to make room inside... which means your tank is going nowhere. That means sticking the TC on the top of the tank. This is an engineering nightmare of awkward center of mass, balance issues on turns, re-engineering the drive mechanism not to break from the recoil, and it being a fixed position gun. Seriously, the tank moves not gun to aim. Making these guns turn sideways will flip the tank. Making it be able to angle upwards for ballistic arc range means pushing not only backward, but downwards. Engineering nightmare.
-The biggest flaw is that even if you can overcome all that... your still dealing with a one shot weapon. The tank having to constantly retreat to fire again makes them spend most of their time near useless. Loading them takes infrastructure or an another specialize vehicle.

Basically near useless for the price of construction. Better design include making:
-A a solid ram tank with a fort on top full of swivel guns and hand cannons/archers Basically, infantry fighting vehicle/APC.
-Ram tank with nozzles all over it to steam/burn everyone around it. Swivel steam/flame turret on top to medium range and anti-everything in that general direction over there gun.
-Go wacky and make yourself a flail tank.
-Make it a truck for hauling cannons around.
-Make yourself more soup tanks.

Even the originals used steam pressure cannons to fire cannons on steam tanks. Muzzle loaded, big bore, main guns aren't useful in close quarters more than once. The only real solution to this issue is making the steam tank big enough to soak the recoil and at that point your talking about making it so heavy it can't move. Tech level issues. If you want a fast mobile TC... get a rhino-thing and an ogre to operate the ironblaster as per normal. He still has to stop to reload.
 
well, the alcohol vapor the engine release is flammable-ish

we could just make a Doom Sphere that release alot of it and then ignite, which should scorch the entire area

basically anti-armor/bio right there, doesn't matter how armor you are, being set on fire will kill you
 
Horium said:
That reminded me. Why are all the plan-makers insisting on Science of War (which hardly seems urgent) vs Mountain Garden, when the option states that there is a low-key fear "epidemic" due to the pirate tomb king?
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while I would rather have the MOUNTAIN gardens started, why would people living in the MOUNTAINS be worried about a PIRATE tomb king? Beastmen incursions, fleeing goblins, skavens... I can see those, but Pirates? in the mountains?
 
Horium said:
That reminded me. Why are all the plan-makers insisting on Science of War (which hardly seems urgent) vs Mountain Garden, when the option states that there is a low-key fear "epidemic" due to the pirate tomb king?
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Epidemic is a strong word. There's a quiet undercurrent, sure. But it's a fear of naval invasion by the undead. In the Middle Mountains. Far away from the ocean.
Also, we finished building minor temples of Morr in the Middle Mountains on turn 30.

Science of War is a 1-year option that may or may not boost our Engineers. Might be somewhat greedy, but it could stack with us bringing in Gold Engineer researchers.
Also, in-depth study on Verena and Myrmidia when we are still rewriting Ostland's legal system.

I think it's simply a matter of the focus not being on any hypothetical undead threat due to the visible Beastmen and Greenskin threats.

Necratoid said:
Basically near useless for the price of construction. Better design include making:
-A a solid ram tank with a fort on top full of swivel guns and hand cannons/archers Basically, infantry fighting vehicle/APC.
-Ram tank with nozzles all over it to steam/burn everyone around it. Swivel steam/flame turret on top to medium range and anti-everything in that general direction over there gun.
-Go wacky and make yourself a flail tank.
-Make it a truck for hauling cannons around.
-Make yourself more soup tanks.
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-Putting the TC on a large ship.
-Using the TC for a settlement's static defenses.

Are my preference.
 
REAPER35 said:
while I would rather have the MOUNTAIN gardens started, why would people living in the MOUNTAINS be worried about a PIRATE tomb king? Beastmen incursions, fleeing goblins, skavens... I can see those, but Pirates? in the mountains?
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I will remind you that there is a Khornate Pirate Captain whose ship can sail on land in this quest specifically and she's plowing trough the Chaos Wastes last time we heard about her.
 
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