"Don't lecture me on honour," Berst snapped, "If you are so knowledgeable on the subject, you should know some things yield more honour than others. The likes of the Pagarians or the Frozen Protectorate would be little more than distractions. The Federation is too large, and in the time it would take us to prepare for another war with the Romulans, they will have gone deeper into the Federation's favour. The Harmony of Horizon is far away, and to send a fleet would leave us vulnerable to the Romulans. We can't fight the Gorn or Ittick-Ka for another five years, unless they go to war with each other, which the Federation is trying to halt. And the Gorn might ally with the Cardassians, who so eager to humiliate us they would be willing to travel a great distance indeed to burn our vessels. Attracting the attention of enough of the Hishmeri septs could doom us to humiliation and bondage. The Empire could not survive that." Berst shook his head, "You know there are no viable options. Our only hope is to keep this dissent under control."

I keep getting struck by the complaint that they can't fight the Gorn or Ittick-ka for "another five years". Oh noes! You mean they have to go a decade between major wars?

Come on Klingons, that's not even a generation. One big war every ten years seems like a managed pace to me.
 
I keep getting struck by the complaint that they can't fight the Gorn or Ittick-ka for "another five years". Oh noes! You mean they have to go a decade between major wars?

Come on Klingons, that's not even a generation. One big war every ten years seems like a managed pace to me.
What really amuses me is that there's a totally viable target. The Paragians are right next to them, have high end tech but only a few extrasolar colonies, and have poor relations with the Federation.
 
The chances are too low. The only action that they are suited for is raiding that supply cache, which is Kinetic 5 or 6. Which has a chance of succes of 72% or 27%, and that's a bad bet unfortunately.
You are looking at the chances for complete success if we get one less success then needed the mission is still completed but the team needs to roll an escape roll:
If you fall short by one success, it is a marginal success; you accomplish the objective, but you have to roll health and escape checks for each team (needing as many successes as the shortfall (here, 1) to pass). If you fall short by two successes, it is a marginal failure, you roll health and escape checks and do not accomplish the objective, but there is no incident. If you fall short by three successes or more, it is a blown mission; in addition to not accomplishing the objective and rolling health and escape checks, you will have to deal with an Incident.

With their escape skill of 4 they would need to roll a 3 with 2d6 to escape if they fail the roll by one.
 
You are looking at the chances for complete success if we get one less success then needed the mission is still completed but the team needs to roll an escape roll:

With their escape skill of 4 they would need to roll a 3 with 2d6 to escape if they fail the roll by one.
Ok, this is a good point.

[X][OFF] Enerael Off + Waterfall
-[X] Trigger a Mapping Event that the HBZ fleet will handle, with a reward of target identification. (You do not need to assign a Task Group to select this mission)
-[X] Trigger a Mapping Event that the Paddah Sector fleet will handle, with a reward of target identification. Chance of Harmony confrontation. (You do not need to assign a Task Group to select this mission)
-[X] Trigger a Mapping Event that the LBZ fleet will handle, with a reward of target identification. (You do not need to assign a Task Group to select this mission)
-[X] Trigger a Mapping Event that the HBZ fleet will handle, with a reward of target identification. Chance of Harmony confrontation. (You do not need to assign a Task Group to select this mission)
-[X] Task Group Wave (Kinetic 7, Subdue 8, Computer 6, Analysis 2, Sophint 5, Investigate 4, Infiltrate 3) (Escape: 9, Avg: 4*)
--[X] Expand Agent Cell Blueberry on Bolarus
---[X] Mission: Develop Agent Cell Blueberry into an operational mission team. (Req: SophInt 1). Reward: Blueberry becomes an operational mission team that can be attached to any task group operating in Bolian space. Skills are determined based on the skills of the Task Group assigned to this mission.
-[X] Task Group Season (Kinetic 2, Subdue 8, Computer 9, Analysis 7, SophInt 11, Investigation 9, Infiltration 6) (Escape 9, Avg: 3*)
--[X] Harmony Health Clinic on Puriurairaru
---[X] Mission: Bureaucratic Harassment (Req.: SophInt 3, Investigation 3). Disruption 3. Gain two new missions against the clinic.
-[X] Task Group Sunglass (Kinetic 5, Subdue 7, Computers 2, Analysis 2, SophInt 5, Investigation 2, Infiltration 5) (Escape 6, Avg 4*)
--[X] Expand Agent Cell Yellowbrick on Morshadd
---[X] Mission: Develop Agent Cell Yellowbrick into an operational mission team. (Req: SophInt 1). Reward: Yellowbrick becomes an operational mission team that can be attached to any task group operating in Licori space. Skills are determined based on the skills of the Task Group assigned to this mission.
-[X] Task Group Fastener (Kinetic 8, Subdue 8, Computer 6, Analysis 2, SophInt 5, Investigation 3, Infiltration 8) (Escape 8, Avg. 3*)
--[X] A stealthed Listening Post has been identified at Alpha Apris III-2.
---[X] Mission: Raid the post, shutting down its operations. (Req: Infiltration 2, Kinetic 3, Escape 1). Disruption 4. On a clean success, test Computer, and if you get at least 2 successes, identify one new target and add +1 on the lowest HBZ Policework roll this quarter.
-[X] Task Group Guardrail (Kinetic 8, Subdue 8, Computer 4, Analysis 6, SophInt 4, Investigation 6, Infiltration 7) (Escape 9, Avg 4*)
--[X] Known Singer Hub on Narravonn (Gammon's moon)
---[X] Mission: Information Hack (Req.: Computer + Infiltration 3, Escape 2). Disruption 2; d3 new targets.
-[X] Task Group Waterfall (Kinetic 13, Subdue 10, Infiltration 6) (Escape 5, Avg: 4*)
--[X] A Harmony Forward Supply Depot has been identified in the Luraperou System.
---[X] Mission: Raid the depot (Kinetic 5, Escape 1). Disruption 5.

Edit: Warning, the use of Rangers (Waterfall) comes with a price tag of 20pp, due to the collateral they tend to cause. Entirely worth it though.

There are people that voted for me by name, so I am reluctant to change my vote to this, but if people like it I will switch.

Edit: Voting for this after all.

Edit2: Aaaand now its not counting my other votes. Sight. I might as well vote for the winning yet identical plans made by Derpmind.

[X][Research] Plan Derpmind Research
[X][Audit] Plan Derpmind Audit
[X][Access] Plan Mostly Briefvoice's Old Plan
 
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[X][OFF] Enerael Off + Waterfall

[X][Audit] Integrity Office: Staff operating the Point 20 supercomputer centre at Ke'luur, the central hub of the HBZ, have started reporting data anomalies. Perhaps it is nothing, but it could represent a problem. (It is a problem, +1 to Harmony Access for any failed or marginal event within the HBZ or Okatha)
Computer troubles at one of our main supercomputer centre near the harmony is something that i think needs to be dealt with fast.
[X][Audit] Office 15: Amash Hagan, 1 Qtr, makes team available again
More teams for research

[X][Research] Starfleet Science Academy, Skill 6: Assess Harmony Influence on Isolinear Tech, Remove potential Isolinear research penalty. [21/40]
[X][Research] Andorian Academy, Skill 6: Rudimentary Starfleet computer core rootkit scan, on completion will identify all compromised ships on Type-III duotronics. [21/40]
[X][Research] Starfleet Medical Command R&D, Skill 6: Rudimentary Harmony Agent Brain Scans, +1 to SophInt for defenders. [20/50]
continue the ongoing research
[X][Research] Daystrom Institute, Skill 6: Increase Resistance to Harmony Conversion, +1 Infiltration to attackers[0/40]
 
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Are the Klingons really still so weakened that even the Hishmeri septs give them pause? That they don't even feel they could roll over the Gorn?

That war with the Romulans was one hell of a pyrrhic victory, wasn't it?
Based upon our latest information on people:
  • Romulans: 56 ships, 282+ Combat, 737+ CHL
  • Cardassians: 87 ships, 399+ Combat, 1118+ CHL
  • Klingons: 96 Ships, 355 Combat, 1141 CHL
  • Starfleet: 139 Ships, 574 Combat, 1527 CHL
the Klingons aren't really that bad off fleet wise.

However if you look at the logistics:
  • Romulans: ~57 Cargo Ships, ~27 Freighters = 948
  • Klingons: ~70 Cargo Ships, ~27 Freighters = 1,078
  • Cardassians: ~95 Cargo Ships, ~39 Freighters = 1,496 Bulk + Small Cargo
both the Klingons and the Romulans are way behind the Cardassians. Sure Starfleet is as well at:
  • Starfleet: 59 Cargo Ships, 27 Freighters, 3 Super-Freighters = 1,046 Bulk + Small Cargo:
but we rely upon our Members and their vastly deeper supply of transportation. Meanwhile the other three are, AFAIK, their only source of logistical support. Given that the Cardassians have roughly the same number of ships and comparable ship stats to those of the Klingons the fact they have 50% more logistical capacity seems to be the problem.


Basically the Klingons have restored/maintained their ability to defend themselves but have not as yet regained the capability to go on the attack in a significant way. Which does make the statement about the Septs a bit weird but I guess it can be read as meaning the ships sent out to face them would run out of supplies, be captured, and those 'brave warriors' subjected to slavery which would in turn humiliate the Empire as a whole.
 
One thing that has to be factored in when looking at Klingon numbers is the Romulans border. As the IR scholar Bane once said, "Victory has defeated you," and in some ways this is true of the Klingons. They stole the Romulans precious metal-stick and captured entire systems, including Iberius. They know the Romulans are gunning for them now, and can't afford to show weakness or take too much off the border. A disastrous military campaign, or enough screaming Hishmeri into their flank, could reignite Romulan revanchism and spell doom for the Empire.

Indeed, right now the Romulans are going thru domestic upheaval, which means their new Empress might be looking for something to give her legitimacy in the aftermath of the Breen debacle. Retaking Iberius might be a good start...

E: basically on paper, the Klingons have 350C, but practically they can probably be expeditionary with only 150 of that, and losing much of it would be a disaster.
 
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klingon warriors/ raiders added too a SF fleet to fight slavery while the klingons them self still have well maybe not our right slavery anymore but still close to it?

that be an interesting thing to tap dance too. adding to that our dance with the icct-ka and there be a lot of steps in that dance.
 
I don't think the vote tally is picking you up right now, so you need to put an X in there. Maybe if you hadn't included the Xs in the subvotes of your post it wouldn't be picking those up?
Ugh. Filling those [] is a pain I wanted to spare people from.

Oh well, I will just vote for it too. With almost successes, the Supply Depot mission has pretty good odds and rewards.

Thanks.
 
With almost successes, the Supply Depot mission has pretty good odds and rewards.
I don't even know what to vote for anymore. I initially had a plan that included Waterfall...

But now I do know that activating Waterfall costs 20pp. Which is a couple of colonies, or a Diplo-push. We could only afford four pushes this turn.

Will it be that worth it? Who knows... I can't judge!
But I feel that transparency compels you to include that 20pp cost and point it out in any plan activating Waterfall.
 
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I don't even know what to vote for anymore. I initially had a plan that included Waterfall...

But now I do know that activating Waterfall costs 20pp. Which is a couple of colonies, or a Diplo-push. We could only afford four pushes this turn.

Will it be that worth it? Who knows... I can't judge!
But I feel that transparency compels you to include that 20pp cost and point it out in any plan activating Waterfall.
Mission: Raid the depot (Kinetic 5, Escape 1). Disruption 5.

That's more than half again the Disruptions earned in my previous plan (9), and almost as much alone as what your plan earns (6).

For 20pp? A trivial choice.

Edit: Its exactly as much as all of last quarters Disruptions (5).

I am pretty sure that everyone knows that the cool Rangers come with a price tag, but ok, will edit in a warning.

Edit2: This new plan is very likely to earn us 14 Disruptions. Whoah. Thanks @sunrise for pointing out the near success thing.
 
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Sure. 20pp. Provides some political cover on the Council.

My concern is- is the Raid not also possibly portrayable as an act somewhere between state sponsored terrorism and a declaration of war?
Perhaps not going to be received quite as badly by the HoH as blowing up a Singer at Narravonn would...

(Also you seem to be voting for this twice. From context, I know you mean one of them to be the Felis mapping, but...):
Trigger a Mapping Event that the HBZ fleet will handle, with a reward of target identification. Chance of Harmony confrontation. (You do not need to assign a Task Group to select this mission)
 
Would one of the plan makers be willing to make a variant that included raiding with waterfall as my plan that includes that is not getting any support?
One of the plans I offered the thread does include the Waterfall depot Raid.
[][OFF] Alliterate multiplies riskXreward
has that.

I do hope the voters realise that! Even though I'm not voting for that one (anymore).

I'm lost, and I did some analysis and made plans. Even Swb hasn't voted! I feel bad for casual questers trying to figure this vote out. Plans keep changing, people vote for only parts of the turn... It's a mess and I'd like to make a motion for no confidence, or something... :V

But I also feel really bad for the QMs who spent presumably a lot of time and effort to make a deep, sophisticated counter-Harmony subgame. :( I feel like I'm failing them, not just voters, by voicing this.
 
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Sure. 20pp. Provides some political cover on the Council.

My concern is- is the Raid not also possibly portrayable as an act somewhere between state sponsored terrorism and a declaration of war?
Perhaps not going to be received quite as badly by the HoH as blowing up a Singer at Narravonn would...

(Also you seem to be voting for this twice. From context, I know you mean one of them to be the Felis mapping, but...):
Trigger a Mapping Event that the HBZ fleet will handle, with a reward of target identification. Chance of Harmony confrontation. (You do not need to assign a Task Group to select this mission)
Ops like this were always inevitable. We even bought insurance.

And didn't we want to punch Singers in the face?

Also, I would be very surprised if we got hit by penalties like that without it being noted as a possibility. That's not how this quest has been run.

It could be used in a narrative later, but that's more of a benefit really.

As for the mapping, I copied that from the post itself and thus blame the GMs. They can puzzle it out.

Btw, I skimmed your post before because I did not have time, but:
Choosing not to Patrol-Sweep Felis space, as its currently target-rich, Season should identify 2 new Felis clinic missions, and we can thus avoid depopulating the HBZ garrison further. Very willing to be persuaded otherwise by deployment gurus.
We took all four Mapping Missions last quarter. It was a plan made by Briefvoice, our resident deployment guru, and our garrison has not changed since.
 
The problem with balancing Disruption versus pp is I have no idea what a Disruption is worth.

What is Disruption? Can you eat it? Does it taste good?

I was expecting/hoping we'd get to spend our Disruption (and see how the HoH spend their Access) before this second turn. It's gonna be really weird if we have to wait till the end of the year before we know what Disruption even does. Can't exactly make big cost/benefit decisions like deploying Waterfall if we have no idea if 5 Disruption is worth the risk.
 
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As for the mapping, I copied that from the post itself and thus blame the GMs
I dont agree with that. Still, even if you hold to it, can your voters be expected to parse it out from the multiple posts over multiple pages?
What is Disruption? Can you eat it? Does it taste good?
I hear Disruption tastes like Licori-ce?
I was expecting/hoping we'd get to spend our Disruption (and see how the HoH spend their Access) before this second turn.
So much this.
 
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The problem with balancing Disruption versus pp is I have no idea what a Disruption is worth.

What is Disruption? Can you eat it? Does it taste good?
Its our curency for both offense and defense against the HoH.

Let me put it this way. If we were relying on a TF to fight the HoH, would you pay 20pp to increase its performance for one quarter by about 84% (Alliterates plan), or 55% (my plan)?
 
Its our curency for both offense and defense against the HoH.

Let me put it this way. If we were relying on a TF to fight the HoH, would you pay 20pp to increase its performance for one quarter by about 84% (Alliterates plan), or 55% (my plan)?

I mean, it depends on how I like its odds without the performance boost. I wouldn't pay if I thought the TF would be doing well without the payment.
 
And despite your protestations E, Disruption isn't the only metric. Yes, it's a key and ultimate goal. But intelligence is also valuable in its own right.

But I've virtually no confidence in my own plans, let alone anyone elses, so it's a bit pointless arguing.

I considered making a new 'narrative plan' that looks at the universe situation and the story the missions tell about our focus, rather than purely tallying Points and Percentages, because the mechanics are still so obscure. We don't know what we're buying, with Disruption.
 
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Oof! Finally caught up, what a great quest.

I went through by threadmarks, so I dont know if anyone mentioned this, but the singer/Harmony relationship really does seem like a mirror of the fdderation/us relationship.

Like, a peaceful polity whose leaders are periodically mind controlled by mysterious intelligences obsessed with expasion.
 
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