slybrarian
Creature of Fable
- Location
- A Far and Sunless Land
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Good End
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Austin, TX
Hey, I just made a post... that I deleted like a couple minutes later. What I wanted to say isn't worth making anyone here upset. I should have stopped myself before making the post in the first place, but I didn't. I'm sorry, and basically I want to apologize, even if most of you won't know what that post was.
If you have my previous post quoted, please don't repost the quote.
I won't repeat anything, but I do agree with one of the points you raised. Changing my vote.
[X] Plan Cheap and Dangerous and Federation
[X] Plan We should have expected the Inquisition.
aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Plan Inquisition's had Bolians instead of Licori for a while now, not sure what you're reading. Also, your plan bothers with the Nessic which is a very substantial difference, so not mentioning that when comparing plans is kinda
.[X] Plan We should have expected the Inquisition.
And yea, really not sure what's up with the other Singer's complete 180 in attitude after she leaves the station, or what the crystal Zarael gave her even does.
Eh? We Should Have Expected the Inquisition has always had the Bolian option instead of Licori.
- Location
- Illinois
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- He/Him
I would mark it as a priority on the basis that full Singer records probably show their history-modification after the fact, which frankly seems very damning.
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I concur that theoretical knowledge doesn't directly translate into practical knowledge, but it sure helps.
I'd hate to imagine how long it would take us to work out how to identify, block, remove, etc. Singer activity without the theoretical knowledge to serve as a jump off point.
Plan Good End likely loses us all the border species other than the OSA. We end up sitting pretty in our little Fortress Federation but as our GMs pointed out, this is about what we can prove. And the people who are going to be demanding hard evidence of meddling won't have it.
We're talking about billions of sapients being put under subtle mind control against their will.
We're talking about billions of sapients being put under subtle mind control against their will.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
This will not give us a fast end, and it will result in Harmony Bullshit triumphing in multiple species scattered throughout what is now neutral space. The Harmony will confront a Federation that is now hostile and immune to its control, but from a greatly strengthened strategic situation thanks to its ranks being swollen by all the species we didn't have the means to save.
Okay, I am praying we get approval voting for this vote because we are hideously vulnerable to vote splitting given that "save information on Harmony intervention into [list of species]" is quite popular but people don't all agree about WHICH species. By contrast, the 'get the Tauni info, the theory behind their equipment, and nothing else' plan has the virtue of simplicity, which makes it easy for a narrow plurality to form around it and win 10-8-8-7 or something.
So either we're gonna have to tactical-vote hard as a group to implement our preference, or we need approval voting.
[X] Plan We should have expected the Inquisition.
[X] Plan Infiltration and Past Crimes
[X] Plan Protect the Vulnerable, Remember the Victims
-[25kq] -Full details of planned operations in Felis space.
-[15kq] -Full details of Harmony infiltration of Nessic space.
-[15kq] -Full details of Harmony infiltration of Bolian space.
-[10kq] -Full records of the Harmony's actions when they intervened in Padani space.
-[05kq] -Full records of the Harmony's actions in regards to their intervention on Kelowna.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
I question the clarity of your vision, and recommend seeing an optometrist ASAP. Plan Good End is many things but "fast" is certainly not going to be one of them-going from theoretical to practical takes time, developing countermeasures takes time, and as soon as they realize we're developing countermeasures they'll start switching over their operations and going to ground. Now, it may be a permanent solution to the Harmony eventually, but it's certainly going to take a while to get there.
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- Location
- Infraspace
[X] Plan We should have expected the Inquisition.
[X] Plan Cheap and Dangerous and Federation
Much as I'd like to keep the Singer-tech data, I simply cannot accept the price that we'd be forced to pay for it.
[X] Plan Cheap and Dangerous and Federation
Much as I'd like to keep the Singer-tech data, I simply cannot accept the price that we'd be forced to pay for it.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Things we can't (eventually) get anywhere else but this vote right here:
[65kq] -Full theoretical underpinnings of Singer Psychi-Cybertech.
[10kq] -Full records of the Harmony's actions when they intervened in Padani space.
[05kq] -Full records of the Harmony's actions in regards to their intervention on Kelowna.
[05kq] -Current Harmony Military deployments.
It sucks, it really does, but... this is probably our only chance on learning how Singer tech actually works. That's by far the biggest advantage we could gain over the HoH. It doesn't give us a smoking gun to end a diplo conflict in any specific area, but it allows us to weed out Singer influenced people both inside the Federation and outside. It's the choice between stopping specific HoH plots in some places, and being able to stop/detect the HoH's method of control itself.
It just really sucks that we have to trade almost everything else for it.
[X] Plan Good End.
[65kq] -Full theoretical underpinnings of Singer Psychi-Cybertech.
[10kq] -Full records of the Harmony's actions when they intervened in Padani space.
[05kq] -Full records of the Harmony's actions in regards to their intervention on Kelowna.
[05kq] -Current Harmony Military deployments.
It sucks, it really does, but... this is probably our only chance on learning how Singer tech actually works. That's by far the biggest advantage we could gain over the HoH. It doesn't give us a smoking gun to end a diplo conflict in any specific area, but it allows us to weed out Singer influenced people both inside the Federation and outside. It's the choice between stopping specific HoH plots in some places, and being able to stop/detect the HoH's method of control itself.
It just really sucks that we have to trade almost everything else for it.
[X] Plan Good End.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
We're going to lose several species to the Harmony, and have large networks of unidentified sleeper cells we only know how to detect in theory, and the Harmony will be sending all their plans into overdrive because they have to assume the worst about us.
I don't think this is a case where just getting a unique benefit is enough to offset all the costs we'll be paying.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
you guys are no doing a very good job of explaining the pros and cons of each plan. your arguing behind the scenes stuff while most of us need the basics and the pros and cons of each plan. Right now I am set on the Good end plan which will give us long term success against the singers. But I think I can be persuaded to choose another plan if you explain it correctly and don't talk down to me and the rest of the guys who are not so invested in the small details.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The other plans give us 65 points worth of information on specifics about what the Harmony is up to in various nations. Some of these (the Felis, the Bolians, the Nessics) we know the Harmony has extensively infiltrated already, which means that there's a very high risk of the Harmony just plain swallowing those nations whole, faster than we can take this information and use it to neutralize Singers.
"Good End" risks leaving us in a situation where we ourselves are well fortified against Singer intrusion after a few years of R&D work, but where the Harmony has gotten a lot bigger, fast, and where the Singers know that they've been outed and will have to find a more... militant... solution to their goal of neutralizing rivals and threats to their social system.
With the information from plans like
[] Plan We should have expected the Inquisition.
[] Plan Infiltration and Past Crimes
[] Plan Protect the Vulnerable, Remember the Victims
we will be much better positioned to immediately counter and roll up Harmony networks, including the ones that pose major threats to the ISC. And giving the ISC intel on the Singers and how the Singers treated them will in turn give the ISC more intel and a more accurate perspective, helping us to work with them to get the Harmony under control.
And all this rolling-up of specific, active Harmony penetrations of various interstellar nations has other advantages. It will probably reveal further information and intelligence and technical details on HOW all these things were done, giving us at least some of the information we need to protect ourselves. Plus, "boots on the ground" revelations about Harmony activity lets us prove that what we're talking about is real and we're not just making up a conspiracy theory, which is a real danger of 'Good End.'
Remember that much of the evidence regarding Kelowna mostly can't be corroborated physically because it all happened thirty or forty years ago, and the Harmony bases were on a moon that is now exploded. There were already a zillion conspiracy theories among the Tauni about what happened to them. If we just show up with a huge infodump about how ELDRITCH HARMONY PSYCHIC COMPUTER GHOSTS were running everything, we risk having our signal get lost in the 'noise' unless we have concrete stuff we can point to like "look, we specifically found hundreds of Felis and Bolians and whatnot whose brains had been hacked by the Harmony and who were modified with mind control implants."
Plan Good End seems likely to me to gain immediate short-term success rather than long-term success. In the long term, we can develop ways of detecting the Singer psy-tech no matter what we vote for. Plan Good End asks for far more immediate gratification in countering psy-tech, and in doing so ignores that one of our biggest strengths. We out-teched the biophage, remember.
Recall that the GMs say this vote determines what we have proof of. We're already speaking to the Bolians and the Licori and the Felis about HoH shadiness. We already trot out the ISC conflict and the Tauni rebellion as examples, in addition to calling out when the HoH makes mistakes like their psysecurity. Those allegations we've made have been dismissed, for the most part, because we lack hard evidence. Just because we can go "oh, the HoH have the ability to make mind control devices!" doesn't mean we are going to beat the HoH at anything. Can we prove it happened to them? Can we prove that we're speaking in terms other than "theoretically the HoH have this technology"?
Remember that the Romulans also have some psy-tech evidence, but they aren't running around easily convincing people the HoH is evil.
Whereas if we obtain hard evidence of things that actually happened then we can go to the Felis and say "look, the HoH hacked your stock market, just like we said they did." "Look, this file says the HoH have taken control of your corporations." "They're trying to get the ISC to invade you! Here's the war plan!" "Look, the Rithe coup on Morshadd was the Harmony's work." It turns these previous mere allegations into facts. That means we're very likely to convert most of the border species. Remember that we just proved the HoH were responsible for the OSA-Licori/Liao war, and they immediately lost the OSA.
If we don't keep data on specific species, Task Force Beyond is likely to lose the Felis and Bolians and will have a tough go in converting the Licori. That means those billions of people will fall under HoH mind-managed society, and it will mean a war to free them. In the longest term, we're better off ensuring those people are safe, because it gives us an avenue to containing the HoH that isn't "phasers over Sanctuary (again)".
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KnightDisciple
Brotherhood. Unity. Peace.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
[X] Plan Cheap and Dangerous and Federation
[X] Plan Good End.
It's not like they are going to eat those species. In the end, we also need to help Harmony citizens that are already in, so them getting more people doesn't fundamentally change the equation. Would suck in a war, but then the war would suck in general. And, I wouldn't count out Intelligence getting details of Harmony operations in time themselves, now that they know where to look for.