That and the neighborhood survivalist is going to start pulling out all the stops because their not going to like this one bit
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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That and the neighborhood survivalist is going to start pulling out all the stops because their not going to like this one bit
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- Mid-Atlantic
[X] Focus on the Licori and Bolians
If it was just the Bolians I might be okay with that, but the Licori are effectively inside our space now, and having them rapidly converted into a Harmony puppet state would be disastrous.
Except that even "overwhelmed" is still going to take some time to happen. We have made effectively NO progress on the Licori and Bolians; the Harmony will be able to flip them rapidly if they operate largely unopposed.
If it was just the Bolians I might be okay with that, but the Licori are effectively inside our space now, and having them rapidly converted into a Harmony puppet state would be disastrous.
The Romulans are in no shape to knife-fight over the Licori and are barely trying. We have very limited options for expansion in the general area the Licori occupy, with the OSA and the Bolians being just about the only candidate not utterly locked up by us.
Uh... that giant Horizon task force is going to focus on the Bolians and very possibly on the Licori too, because those are the species with which we have the LEAST influence. Pulling back our own task force to the OSA and the Felis is basically agreeing to partition the region 2-and-2 with the Harmony getting to take the Bolians and Licori into their sphere of influence, and I'm not at all sure we want that.
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Oh hell, you're right. The ISC is going to totally fucking lose it. I mean, this force was the size of their fleet when we got our last fleet size report. Well, I guess we get to see what a great power moving to mobilize in peacetime looks like.
But have they actually done that? That certainly hasn't been how they've conducted diplomacy up until now. They haven't blockaded anyone or silenced any dissenting voices.
Where's your evidence they won't simply continue to use the same diplomatic strategies they've used up until now, just using a lot more ships for it?
[X] Focus on the Licori and Bolians
The Felis and OSA are both (currently) Affiliates which means we get full power Diplomatic Pushes against them. Admittedly our base relations are too low to directly target the Harmony Influence tags but we have no idea what affect those actually have. Still a pair of Diplomatic Pushes with them average out to about the same performance as the Task Force Beyond could be expected to have before this crushing wave of reinforcements from Harmony.
The Licori and Bolians meanwhile are both non-Affiliates and so Diplomatic Pushes are of low effect against them. That also makes them a lot more vulnerable to subversion. Furthermore from a geogrpahic prospective they are far more important then either the OSA or Felis. Both of those nations are already along the Harmony-Federation border while the Licori and Bolins both behind our Ked Paddah salient. If Harmony manages to sway either to their side they can encircle the Ked Paddah and cut us off from both the Dreamers and Breen.
The Felis and OSA are both (currently) Affiliates which means we get full power Diplomatic Pushes against them. Admittedly our base relations are too low to directly target the Harmony Influence tags but we have no idea what affect those actually have. Still a pair of Diplomatic Pushes with them average out to about the same performance as the Task Force Beyond could be expected to have before this crushing wave of reinforcements from Harmony.
The Licori and Bolians meanwhile are both non-Affiliates and so Diplomatic Pushes are of low effect against them. That also makes them a lot more vulnerable to subversion. Furthermore from a geogrpahic prospective they are far more important then either the OSA or Felis. Both of those nations are already along the Harmony-Federation border while the Licori and Bolins both behind our Ked Paddah salient. If Harmony manages to sway either to their side they can encircle the Ked Paddah and cut us off from both the Dreamers and Breen.
But then we're inevitably going to lose lots of progress on the Felis and OSA.
Part of the issue is that we don't have any idea what it means for the Horizon to "win". We how that we can lock them out permanently by getting a tag to a certain level, but we don't know what they need to do to lock us out.
Is there a hidden timer where if we don't complete tags after a certain number of quarters they win? How close are they to winning with the Felis and OSA right now?
EDIT: Fundamentally, i'd hate to trade the OSA and the Felis for the Bolians and Licori I feel like focusing on the Bolians and Licori effectively does that. We think we're "strong" with the OSA and Felis, but we don't know what triggers a HoH victory.
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OSA and Felis seem like the best option for now.
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Thing is, while we might clear OSA and Felis - though only OSA is guaranteed any time soon - we have much less of a foothold in Licori and Bolians. If we leave them for an year, it will allow Horizon to establish a very sizable base we will be hard pressed to overcome at best - and there's a very good chance of outright losing them. On the other hand, OSA tag can be cleared with a push, Felix have the ISC task force, and we have a buffer that will hold for an year or two if things don't work out with both. It's a choice, but IMO, if we want the best chances in all of the polities, we need to concentrate on Licori and Bolians.
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I'm literally not sure what else we can do. Their cruisers have a minimum P-score of 6, which means that this force has a minimum P-score of around 252, possible slightly less if they have a bunch of Choreographers for their capital elements, but likely substantially more, since they're likely to deploy primarily Scientists and Sanctuarys. Therefore, I'm willing to say that we're going to lose whoever we don't focus on. So I'm willing to give up the salient, because we have a better chance of a partial victory focusing our efforts on the people we already have an in with.
- Location
- NC USA
There has to be some kind of repercussions for the HoH for doing this you do not send this many ships without some people looking at you sideways, even the average joe can see this for what it is and no amount of flowery language on their part will help.
They have the right scent, don't misjudge. Whatever your opinion on the possible war, there is now this narrative they can play of the Federation that just stands idly by and watches as bad things happen if it's inconvenient for them. Before they had this narrative to play, they were giving us trouble, Now? We'll be fighting an uphill war no matter what we do. I don't know why they hit the Amarki like the did or why, but it's actually a very smart play if they have something they're trying.
[X] Focus on the OSA and Felis
Aren't Harmony movements close to Romulans, too? I think we may have a possible alliance here with a bit of TF work.
Aren't Harmony movements close to Romulans, too? I think we may have a possible alliance here with a bit of TF work.
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Er, if you've looked at the map lately, no it doesnt?
Okay, here is where I am.
We have no idea how close the HoH is to achieving victory with the OSA or the Felis. No idea.
We see that we have the "HoH Influence Tag" high and that seems good... but we have no idea what the HoH "Federation Influence" tag looks like. For all we know, the HoH have "Federation Influence 254/300" tag on the OSA they're working on right now.
We have no idea how close the HoH is to achieving victory with the OSA or the Felis. No idea.
We see that we have the "HoH Influence Tag" high and that seems good... but we have no idea what the HoH "Federation Influence" tag looks like. For all we know, the HoH have "Federation Influence 254/300" tag on the OSA they're working on right now.
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Look at it from the bright side, it could've been worse. Imagine if we had been told this right after declaring war on the spoonheads.
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Oh please, they already had that from our failure to conquer the Klingons and liberate their enslaved non-Klingon subjects.
I was looking at the latest version of the map (2324.Q1) as I wrote that. The OSA and Felis are along the Harmony-Federation border while the Bolins and Licori are on the other side of the Ked Paddah from the Harmony which places them in a perfect position for an encirclement. It really couldn't be more clear.
This isn't even touching on how the Licori are pretty much the best place you can get outside of Romulan territory for launching attacks into the heartlands of the Federation. They are pretty much the strategic location in this territory war right now.
I'll just remind people that while we have much less ships out there, it's not because we want to avoid some kind of escalation - it's because we don't have more ships. Harmony, evidently, does. What message is there for an "Average Joe" and all else to see, beyond "HoH tries their best to win a decisive diplomatic victory using a moment of Federation weakness"?
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Yeah but that doesn't cut us off from the Dreamers, we can still reach them through OSA and Ked Paddah space.
True; we don't know what progress, if any, the HoH have made. However I would take the fact that both races are Affiliated and that their HoH Influence Tags are over halfway cleared as a sign that we have a clear lead.
If that isn't the case then the diplomacy and tag systems have utterly failed and are near on completely pointless since their whole purpose is to abstractly represent our relationship progress with a given race. So assuming one of the core gameplay mechanics isn't broken we should be able to afford any set backs that occur over the next year with the Felis and OSA.
The Licori and Bolins meanwhile have pretty much zero progress or relations with us. This makes them extremely vulnerable to being stolen in the next year. I am nearly certain that given how effective we've seen large Task Forces be if we chose to ignore the Licori and Bolins we will lose them before the year is out.
Since I remember HoH tag going into negatives, I assume a much more logical situation where HoH have the "Federation Influence -282/300" tag, and will lose when it reaches -300, and not OSA going "Hey guys, I know you diplomatically outmatched HoH more often than not, but they reached their own nebulous targets, so we are with them now". Where would they gain so much diplomatic influence, when it was the job of Beyond to ensure they don't, with failures clearly tracked by adding negatives?
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There are very little difference between stolen in thee next year and stolen in the next few years. I am afraid that focusing on Bolians\Licori will only delay Harmony's victory there unless we reinforce the TF a lot. And we won't. We simply have no enough ships.
