I think you're taking the "if you're not Shenhua you're a scrub" meme a bit to seriously
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
I think you're taking the "if you're not Shenhua you're a scrub" meme a bit to seriously
- Location
- Brazil
Ling Qi's progress is seen as exceptional to the eyes of Meizhen and CRX.
And Ji Rong has more Talent than we do.
"Someone as weak as Ji Rong" is definitely worth pulling strings to acquire.
And Ji Rong has more Talent than we do.
"Someone as weak as Ji Rong" is definitely worth pulling strings to acquire.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
It does last for a few turns? Hell, we make that all back by the time it wears out if we use TRD next turn, and our veil makes it harder for Chu Song to track us too.
The problem is that--as a matter of course, I'm reluctant to block a battering ram with my face. Even if my face is well armored and shock absorbent, I would still rather avoid it in the first place.
I've explained my reasoning for it, but what I want to do is recontextualize the fight. I want to actually force her out of the comfort zone of "Apply sword to enemy face". And I most definitely want to avoid the risk of melee interrupts being a thing.
In fact, I think this is something Ling Qi probably would have learned by now.
@yrsillar , are melee interrupt arts a thing that we should be concerned about?
Linq Qi has also been exceptionally lucky and hard working. From what we've seen, Ji Rong has been the opposite (not all by his own fault, either).
As we've been told, there's more to talent than Talent.
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Ji Rong works hard, and he's had his own good fortune.
What he's failed to do is roll his good fortune into more good fortune, and that's the difference he and Ling Qi have, as well as the difference he has with actual Xianxia protagonists--who for all that they apparently get in over their head, are actually big about keeping their heads down and only making a scene when they feel they've got the win in the bag.
Like, Ling Qi was able to roll her good fortune of making friends with one of the strong groups into getting into Zhou's advanced class trial, which led to getting our care package from the Grinning Moon, which led to us having the strength to seize the Argent Vent, which we used to get Meizhen a boost up, and helped get us access to the trial, which got us Argent Mirror and Zhengui.
Getting lucky is just the start, you need to leverage that luck into getting more luck.
What he's failed to do is roll his good fortune into more good fortune, and that's the difference he and Ling Qi have, as well as the difference he has with actual Xianxia protagonists--who for all that they apparently get in over their head, are actually big about keeping their heads down and only making a scene when they feel they've got the win in the bag.
Like, Ling Qi was able to roll her good fortune of making friends with one of the strong groups into getting into Zhou's advanced class trial, which led to getting our care package from the Grinning Moon, which led to us having the strength to seize the Argent Vent, which we used to get Meizhen a boost up, and helped get us access to the trial, which got us Argent Mirror and Zhengui.
Getting lucky is just the start, you need to leverage that luck into getting more luck.
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- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Ji Rong has gotten set backs and certainly hasn't been as lucky as Ling Qi, but he's hardly been unfortunate. He's got a suit of arts that synergize well together and have similar element specs, training and backing from Sun so that he can be a facepuncher for her, and time to train grow. If he had been smarter he'd be much further along, but he's still very well off.
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- Location
- CA
Kind of just a recitation of my previous plan in actual vote format and flowery wording. I'm not a big fan of using words like 'hold your ground' when Ling Qi's defensive arts are more about dodging than tanking hits straight on.
[X] Standard Operating Procedure
-[X] You have confidence in your abilities, but there's no harm in being a bit cautious. Maintain your distance with Sable Crescent Step as you build your mist into an inexorable tide. Zhengui's Ashfall will only make the eventual sneak attack all the more unstoppable. Once Chu Song is trapped within the Traveler's End, your Frozen Soul Serenade will snuff out any chances of victory.
[X] Standard Operating Procedure
-[X] You have confidence in your abilities, but there's no harm in being a bit cautious. Maintain your distance with Sable Crescent Step as you build your mist into an inexorable tide. Zhengui's Ashfall will only make the eventual sneak attack all the more unstoppable. Once Chu Song is trapped within the Traveler's End, your Frozen Soul Serenade will snuff out any chances of victory.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
I like this a lot. It doesn't try to play it clever and introduce more weakness if things don't go as planned, and it also follows Yrsillar's own style of imagery over enumerating each technique, which is nice.
That, and it seems to be the only plan that actually has Zhengui being used from the get go?
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
I'm basically saying the Talent you begin with matters much less than your work ethic or your luck, and it's too early to say what Ji Rong's going to be in 10 years, let alone 100.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
As I said, I am fundamentally against the idea of blocking a battering ram with my face, no matter how strong my face is.
Chu Song is, effectively, Sun Liling-lite. And my strategy was derived from the one we used to escape from Liling in her Interrupt. And a strategy that worked against someone who specced for chasing a ninja when they had a two stage and one realm advantage is probably not going to be trivially ignored by someone who had limited access to arts, resources, and sites--especially when we have never used stealth in actual combat to this day.
Beyond that... We're not clashing Chu Song's defense with stealth, we're clashing her perception--and I find it intensely unlikely that she stacked perception arts when the winning strategy against Ling Qi is to beat her into paste before she can spool up, and do everything you can to stop her from being able to do that. That's not something you run perception to get, that's something you run gap closers and aggressive dispels for.
Chu Song is, effectively, Sun Liling-lite. And my strategy was derived from the one we used to escape from Liling in her Interrupt. And a strategy that worked against someone who specced for chasing a ninja when they had a two stage and one realm advantage is probably not going to be trivially ignored by someone who had limited access to arts, resources, and sites--especially when we have never used stealth in actual combat to this day.
Beyond that... We're not clashing Chu Song's defense with stealth, we're clashing her perception--and I find it intensely unlikely that she stacked perception arts when the winning strategy against Ling Qi is to beat her into paste before she can spool up, and do everything you can to stop her from being able to do that. That's not something you run perception to get, that's something you run gap closers and aggressive dispels for.
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- Location
- United States of America
The problem I'm having is a fundamental problem with the plan though. This is not a good environment for our stealth. It's not the worst, but it's not very good. There are only so many trees that we would be able to reach and Chu Song knows that we are a stealth specialist. She is probably expecting for us to make a dash for it and try to stealth away. I don't particularly feel the need to try and do stealth in an environment not suited for it when we don't have the initiative. Because if it fails, then Ling Qi will have problems.
If we had the initiative and could move first I would be more comfortable with it, but Chu Song is probably moving first, and I believe will likely be within 10m of us when her turn ends. A simple movement of 40 meters and then a dash of 50m would put her in extremely close proximity to us for her attacks. And in light of the movement speed that I expect her to have, moving 51m away just doesn't cut it for first turn actions.
I would much rather ditch going stealth first turn and simply double move to 102m away forcing her to chase after us. After that, we can decide whether to stealth or not depending on what she's shown, and it saves us 4 qi.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
No, Chu Song knows that Ling Qi can stealth around.
But she has never used it in a battle.
Her ability to equip arts isn't unlimited for heaven's sake, and her build demands a heavy focus on Spine and Leg Meridians, with a secondary in Arm, we've seen little Lung or Heart effects coming from her, and none at all from Head--though she probably has a few.
She had no White Room, her resources have been getting choked out by dint of being a second year student, I don't see her having more Meridians than we are, and her build is one that demands a heavy focus on Spine and Leg to work. How the bloody hell is she squeezing a powerful Perception art into that, when her winning strategy is to win the fast draw and then force us into a melee cage match, thus, making our stealth irrelevant?
Except OwS means that she can't intercept our escape, because we don't actually cross the intervening distance. We have enough shadows from the canopy and the sun to use it reliably, and GCD also helps us escape from lockdowns like that.
Like, if it turns out she actually does have great perception? Okay, the plan shifts nicely to just using our brief advantage from her not having to run a charge in order to detect us, into an area defense like the others. We've lost nothing but a little Qi, and learned that Chu Song is actually really good at perception and that we shouldn't count on it. But we've also gained another round to set up our defenses either way.
More importantly, if it turns out her perception isn't actually that great and we can set up perfectly, and hell--maybe even backstab. Then we can hide the fact that Ling Qi is stupidly durable when hit from the public, which means that people are going to spec to make Ling Qi stop moving instead of our actual weakness of single, uber high damage attacks.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
She can't utterly, completely change up her entire build on the drop of a hat, not when she didn't even know who she was going to be fighting until just now.
The numbers have certainly changed with the rebalance, but the actual story hasn't. And it was that Chu Song may have experience, but that her gear is mediocre, and her talent is probably only decent, which bars her from getting too many meridians.
And she showed little in the way of group support in that match, and a lot of spine/leg/arm effects. We can make guesses based on that much as to what she favors. We already know her favored elements (Wind, Thunder, Mountain), we've seen what Meridians she favors, and we've seen one distinct weak spot (Though admittedly, probably one she's corrected by now, of being vulnerable to effects like our Mist)
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Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'm saying that we don't know her entire build, and building plans on assumptions and hypotheticals can bite us in the ass.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, but that's something she's had time and cause to correct to be fair. So that kind of weakness is one I wouldn't count on again. (Though it'd be nice if it's true)
She's likely still weak in that field, but not egregriously so anymore.
And as I said, the best counter to stuff like that is for her to force us into a cage match. It wouldn't work, but it'd force us to reveal how tanky Ling Qi actually is, which means the actual End of Year Final Boss fight in Ji Rong will know to bring gear for overwhelming one-shot damage instead of trying to gear to pin us down and cage match us, which is actually playing to Ling Qi's advantages, despite it being the logical choice against ordinary spiritualists.
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Once more into shadow is a bad plan by prettty much all metrics. We need to fight Chu Song, not run away from her. Spending our qi for no reason to sealth up is a complete waste.
[X] Keep It Simple Stupid : Throw FVM and have zhengui run toward Chu to tank for us. Once FVM is fully up, hide in the mist and have zhengui retreat to it and stealth up too if he is not inside already. If Chu is outside and throwing AOE attack inside, just stealth move outside of FVM and let her spend her Qi. Otherwise use our music arts to finish her. Buff zhengui if needed.
Zhengui defense is simply OP. Let him tank while we set up FVM. Then use our stealth to force her to lose qi.
[X] Keep It Simple Stupid : Throw FVM and have zhengui run toward Chu to tank for us. Once FVM is fully up, hide in the mist and have zhengui retreat to it and stealth up too if he is not inside already. If Chu is outside and throwing AOE attack inside, just stealth move outside of FVM and let her spend her Qi. Otherwise use our music arts to finish her. Buff zhengui if needed.
Zhengui defense is simply OP. Let him tank while we set up FVM. Then use our stealth to force her to lose qi.
- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
Army battles are between Yellows, so no domain at all.
Sun was a notable outsider with his Green level army.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Except if you actually read the plan, you'd know that we only actually retreat to probe for how good her chase and perception skills are--that if we break contact, we abuse that to wind up our full FVM suite and ride Zhengui to glorious battle--if we can't, then we still try for a decent joint backstab on her.
I still think the belief the ducal scions as having equivalent talent to Ling Qi is wrong. And or that @yrsillar got the balance wrong on pre-14 cultivation.
To be frank Meizhen has almost certainly been spending a lot of this year doing closed door cultivation as she doesn't suffer from social action he'll like we do. Combined with having a general drug regime that's generally as good or better than ours staying ahead should be possible even with significantly lower talent. Imagine the equivalent of high sun type pills, which Jiao could afford to give out to about 30 disciples. every week from the start.
The pre-cultivation thing does seem to run squarely into 'why bother' territory though. Given how hardly Meizhen apparently worked pre-sect her return in effort investment was staggering low. To the point where I can barely see the worth for the clan in terms of drug costs. Especially given the expected lifespans of these cultivators.
Maybe literally all cultivation before 13 is done sans drugs and stones? It'd make little sense but it's the only way I can remotely see it being worth it.
I mean it was one thing when it was the Ling Qing and Ji Rong's steadily catching up. They're freaks of nature with both absurd work ethics and good or incredible luck. Heck even Xiulan catching up is ok since she basically did a 50% death roll for power. But Han Joan,, who was a massive slacker for ages and got stuck in breakthrough hell for months isn't far behind and he started much later in year terms.
Which again comes back to the fact that everyone is going to live hundreds of years and 6 months shouldn't be that important.
Maybe I'm just really really underestimating how much money these clans have.
Edit: Cai is probably the most talented of the scions going purely by how much she advances despite putting other things as being equally important to cultivation.
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- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
Feels like the most conservative plan. Let's Yrs do his thing while building up a death field. We have a lot of health and qi so even if she can batter us down we can recover
Feels like the most conservative plan. Let's Yrs do his thing while building up a death field. We have a lot of health and qi so even if she can batter us down we can recover
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Green Stones are basically the standard currency at the ducal seats. To them what our Red Stones are.
A single Green Stone is worth 500 RSS, and Ling Qi alone managed to get to Yellow off of maybe 50 of those. While her Talent is exceptional, it still means that a Ducal House can budget something like a 100 GSS like we spend RSS, and have enough to stuff their children up for a marginal advantage.
It's a face thing too, their scions have to be overwhelming compared to their peers when they make their debut, or their clan looks weak. So even if the efficiency is trash, they do it anyway.