Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Hm, so a scroll that helps us learn a spell is 1 favour, and we can't learn battlemagic because shit is above our paygrade, apparently. The price is steep, but some spells might be worth it. I was thinking about two:

Universal Confusion because it is an almost unit wide attack spell that should be highly effective against Skaven. They aren't exactly coordinated minds at the best of times, and if we make Skaven act unpredictably they might still be at each others throats after the spell ends. The next best thing to actual battle magic.

Shadow Knives to deal with heavily armored enemies and because i want us to master that spell in order to get an insubstantial Shadow Great Sword that ignores armor. Almost as good as a Runefang!

I was thinking about getting Invisibility since we could cast it safely unlike Substance of Shadow and it works in the light, but i don't think it adds enough to our arsenal to be worth a favor considering we do have SoS, Shadowcloak and Take No Heed.

BoneyM said:

Dispelling is you versus the enemy mage. A dispel scroll just plain slaps down the spell.

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Hrm. So the choice appears to be between 'Dispel Dismemberment and (Recent) Death' and regular Dispel plus heals-from-near-death.

Both have their advantages.

Edit: Again Hmm:

BoneyM said:

It wouldn't be used for centuries, it'd be used until the first time it's on a battlefield where the enemy wins and the person who has it is either killed twice or captured. And then there's an orc warboss or a chaos champion or an ogre tyrant who comes back when killed.

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Or in our case, a Grey Seer or Skarsnik.

DiceOfStupidity said:

Hell, forget about Dwarf adventures and think of the future! There will be time for Mathilde to experiment with her own version Elixir of eternal Life. Any mistakes made there, a minor fault that would leave her dying, or in literally pieces, would all be fixed.

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Messing up the elixir created vampires. Like, all of them. As a thing. I'm not eager to find out what else was on that failure table.

Neptune said:

I was more thinking of the Jade order creating one for themselve, as once they've worked out how it can be done, it should be quicker to do a second time for both the Battle Mage and Enchanter, and would give them a unique artifact that they can reuse constantly to generate favors and influence. An Elector Count or their family member is dying, and it's not worth it for a Battle Mage can't be pulled, they can be fully healed and with no miscast chance. The latter is particularly notable, given this level of magic can't ever be cast reliably in the normal manner.

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They already know how to make the item, that's why it's even an option.

Dispel scrolls don't care who is casting what. Baby's first Glowing Light and Ancient Vampire's Pit of Shades are equal before a Dispel Scroll. If you like not watching entire regiments fall to proper Battle Magic tier spells, take a dispel scroll.

[X] Regrowth - Ghyran, instantly restores someone to full health from any state up to and including 'recently dead'. -9 College Favours
It is always beneficial to not die when killed.

[X] As a representative of the Empire, honouring the ancient alliance between Man and Dwarf.
This isn't "The Empire has sent me." but rather "I, Magister of the Empire, have come to honour the ancient alliance."
[X] As a representative of the Grey Order, here to lend a hand where it can be of most use.
Not fond of the chronicler or wonderer options.


Please note: Dispel Scrolls are 1 use only.

Heretek said:

Dispel scrolls don't care who is casting what. Baby's first Light and Ancient Vampire's Pit of Shades are equal before a Dispel Scroll. If you like not watching entire regiments fall to proper Battle Magic tier spells, take a dispel scroll.

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Seems a bit off, though, doesn't it? They can't possibly be so powerful as to negate battle magics, right?

If they were and given the cost, I'd imagine they'd just shove a million dispel scrolls along with every army, completely negating things like Chaos Sorcerers or vampires.

Nagash takes the field? Eh, no problem, we have dispel scrolls.

That actually was a pretty significant part of the meta of the wargame before it got blown up. But the thing is you can only carry so many scrolls but Nagash has an unlimited amount of being a Wizard, and they're somewhat expensive, points-wise.

What do you say? Lord Kroak Himself is casting his OP Deliverance of Itza spell?
No problem, we have Dispel Scrolls!

They do seem a bit overpowered, to be honest. At least assuming I'm reading them right.

@BoneyM Another thing i wanted to ask is if our Aethyric Armour has become significantly more powerful now that we have achieved Magic 6. I think it has been at "chainmail" levels for a while now, and the spell is supposed to scale with our mastery of magic. If it has become stronger, presumably we need to enchant new robes to take advantage of that, since our old ones probably don't suddenly become stronger just because we can cast the spell they were enchanted with better now.

BoneyM said:

That actually was a pretty significant part of the meta of the wargame before it got blown up. But the thing is you can only carry so many scrolls but Nagash has an unlimited amount of being a Wizard, and they're somewhat expensive, points-wise.

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Kind of seems like something that should probably be looked at if there's ever going to be a massive battle near any place we've settled in, because otherwise, we need to get to dispel scroll crafting and just keep stocking up.

Right now, I'm imagining that there's just a massive stockpile of dispel scrolls in Altdorf, in preparation for an enemy like Nagash, because if they really are that poweful, the Colleges of Magic should be churning them out constantly.

Not busy with a specific task? Dispel scrolls.

Owe something to the Colleges? Dispel scrolls.

Just visiting? Dispel scrolls.

[X] Boon of Hysh - Hysh, instantly heals all wounds, poisons and disease. -5 College Favours.
[X] As an adventurer, seeking fame and glory.
[X] As a chronicler, here to record events.

[ ] Regrowth - Ghyran, instantly restores someone to full health from any state up to and including 'recently dead'. -9 College Favours

is great and all, but could I suggest:

[X] Boon of Hysh - Hysh, instantly heals all wounds (but doesn't regrow anything missing), and cures any poisons and disease. -5 College Favours.
[X] Other (Knocks of the Departed, -3 Favours)

Boon of Hysh is just as good as Ghyran in most circumstances, plus Knocks of the Departed! So long as we have Van Hal's hat, and are either before his tomb or in the presence of Roswita, we can impel him to answer any question of ours by knocking on the Gates of Morr's kingdom! That is totally rad.

"Van Hal, how's the afterlife? One knock for good, two knocks for bad, three knocks if you want to come back as a vampire count."
"Van Hal, should Roswita reward the Moot for sending more warriors than Altdorf?"
"Van Hal, is Roswita being a dummy about dismissing Mathilde Weber? One knock for yes, two knocks for also yes."
"Van Hal, I was thinking about commissioning an enchanted statue of you that can cast Shadowsteed to anyone who prays for the wellbeing of Stirland, what do you think?"
"Van Hal, who is the fairest in the land?"

[X] As a wanderer, not entirely sure what you seek.
[X] As a representative of the Empire, honouring the ancient alliance between Man and Dwarf.

[X] Regrowth - Ghyran, instantly restores someone to full health from any state up to and including 'recently dead'. -9 College Favours


[X] As a representative of the Empire, honouring the ancient alliance between Man and Dwarf.

Chronic said:

@BoneyM Another thing i wanted to ask is if our Aethyric Armour has become significantly more powerful now that we have achieved Magic 6. I think it has been at "chainmail" levels for a while now, and the spell is supposed to scale with our mastery of magic. If it has become stronger, presumably we need to enchant new robes to take advantage of that, since our old ones probably don't suddenly become stronger just because we can cast the spell they were enchanted with better now.

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Yes, it has, and yes, your robes are still at the level they were.

MacroDaemon said:

Right now, I'm imagining that there's just a massive stockpile of dispel scrolls in Altdorf, in preparation for an enemy like Nagash, because if they really are that poweful, the Colleges of Magic should be churning them out constantly.

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They are. They're also using them constantly. The question 'why aren't they doing this all the time?' is asked about quite a lot of things without anyone seeming to see the explanation inherent in that: there's a great many ways that magic can help and only so many Wizards to go around.

[x] Boon of Hysh - Hysh, instantly heals all wounds (but doesn't regrow anything missing), and cures any poisons and disease. -5 College Favours.
[x] 4 Dispel scrolls (-2 collage favours)

We need those dispel scrolls. With any luck it'll gel with our dwarves firepower rather nicely

[x] As a chronicler, here to record events.
[x] As an adventurer, seeking fame and glory.

BoneyM said:

They are. They're also using them constantly. The question 'why aren't they doing this all the time?' is asked about quite a lot of things without anyone seeming to see the explanation inherent in that: there's a great many ways that magic can help and only so many Wizards to go around.

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How difficult are they to make and can make them?

While we're on this note, could the heal item end up counterspelled?

Guile said:

Knocks of the Departed! So long as we have Van Hal's hat, and are either before his tomb or in the presence of Roswita, we can impel him to answer any question of ours by knocking on the Gates of Morr's kingdom! That is totally rad.

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Veto.

MacroDaemon said:

How difficult are they to make and can make them?

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Very and no.

racnor said:

While we're on this note, could the heal item end up counterspelled?

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Technically yes, if a Wizard was standing right in your personal space and waiting for the very second you used it. Practically, no.

MacroDaemon said:

Seems a bit off, though, doesn't it? They can't possibly be so powerful as to negate battle magics, right?

Given the cost, I'd imagine they'd just shove a million dispel scrolls along with every army, completely negating things like Chaos Sorcerers or vampires.

Nagash takes the field? Eh, no problem, we have dispel scrolls.

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Well for OP tier hero units like Nagash QMs are well within their rights to given them special rules/traits that eliminate the metagame issue with dispel this happens in quests that favor fluff over TT balance, or simply have them cast ritual magic that is well beyond your dispel range, which is an issue as ritual magic when done properly can be far more dangerous than battle magic.

On the topic of dispel scrolls and making and using them... we're an enchanter. We can dispel things. How difficult would it be to learn to make our own dispel scrolls? That seems like a line of research and production well worth investigating on the campaign trail.

Guile said:

[ ] Regrowth - Ghyran, instantly restores someone to full health from any state up to and including 'recently dead'. -9 College Favours

is great and all, but could I suggest:

[X] Boon of Hysh - Hysh, instantly heals all wounds (but doesn't regrow anything missing), and cures any poisons and disease. -5 College Favours.
[X] Other (Knocks of the Departed, -3 Favours)

Boon of Hysh is just as good as Ghyran in most circumstances, plus Knocks of the Departed! So long as we have Van Hal's hat, and are either before his tomb or in the presence of Roswita, we can impel him to answer any question of ours by knocking on the Gates of Morr's kingdom! That is totally rad.

"Van Hal, how's the afterlife? One knock for good, two knocks for bad, three knocks if you want to come back as a vampire count."
"Van Hal, should Roswita reward the Moot for sending more warriors than Altdorf?"
"Van Hal, is Roswita being a dummy about dismissing Mathilde Weber? One knock for yes, two knocks for also yes."
"Van Hal, I was thinking about commissioning an enchanted statue of you that can cast Shadowsteed to anyone who prays for the wellbeing of Stirland, what do you think?"
"Van Hal, who is the fairest in the land?"

[X] As a wanderer, not entirely sure what you seek.
[X] As a representative of the Empire, honouring the ancient alliance between Man and Dwarf.

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I love your ideas but we're not going to be at Abelhelm's tomb or in the presence of Roswita for five years, so it seems like a bad immediate play. Surely we'll get more favors later with which we could do this.

Also, I am 100% behind an enchanted statue of Van Hal that casts Shadowsteeds for people who say something appropriately pro-Stirland in front of it. That's the kind of optics that might let a magic item get passed off as socially okay instead of suspicious and probably radioactive horror, and coincidentally turn Van Hal into a saint when people start praying to him all the time. Put that on the to-do list for when we get back.

Dispel Scrolls are hard to make, but it's something that we should be able to work on with enough effort.

But yes, Regrowth is nice for avoiding death for yourself or people close to you, Dispel Scrolls help stop this kind of thing from happening in the first place.

[x] Boon of Hysh - Hysh, instantly heals all wounds (but doesn't regrow anything missing), and cures any poisons and disease. -5 College Favours.
[x] 4 Dispel scrolls (-2 collage favours)
[x] Taking a scroll for a single spell with you on the trip [Shadow Knives] (-1 College Favour, cannot be Battle Magic, can be taken multiple times)
[x] Taking a scroll for a single spell with you on the trip [Universal Confusion] (-1 College Favour, cannot be Battle Magic, can be taken multiple times)

[x] As a chronicler, here to record events.
[x] As an adventurer, seeking fame and glory.

Dispel scrolls are established as great, and come on people, don't you want weapons capable of cutting through steel armor like butter? if Knives aren't your thing, either a mastered Shadow Knives or a Greatsword enchanted with the spell might provide the same benefit to other weapons, and luckily we are entirely capable of enchanting without the use of enchanting tools, so we can even do it on campaign!

Not to mention getting Universal confusion, a spell that is almost certain to take any single unit of feeble minded Skaven out for a significant amount of time. Also really handy if we need a flashy distraction. I am pretty sure we can't learn more spellbook spells without scrolls, and having 4 out of 5 Fiendishly Complex Shadow Magic spells should go a long way to pushing us over to Magic 7, at which point we can use even our most powerful spells without risking miscasts. It also allows us to dip our toes into battle magic, if we feel that risking terrible miscasts is our can of beer.

Also, we can't use college favors if we are dead, so i see no real problem with using up all of them.

[x] Boon of Hysh - Hysh, instantly heals all wounds (but doesn't regrow anything missing), and cures any poisons and disease. -5 College Favours.
[x] 4 Dispel scrolls (-2 collage favours)
[x] Taking a scroll for a single spell with you on the trip [Shadow Knives] (-1 College Favour, cannot be Battle Magic, can be taken multiple times)
[x] Taking a scroll for a single spell with you on the trip [Universal Confusion] (-1 College Favour, cannot be Battle Magic, can be taken multiple times)

[x] As a chronicler, here to record events.
[X] As a representative of the Grey Order, here to lend a hand where it can be of most use.

yeah learning to make dispell scrolls when on the campaign seems like a great idea people for personal use and for colleges.

Probably can trade them for favors maybe not at the 2:1 ratio but 3:1 ratio at worst? That seems a pretty great idea to farm favors in the future even for meh enchanters like we are currently since dispell is such a early spell.

also @BoneyM what are requirments for our next rank after magister ? Cause im pretty sure u or others havent spelled it out really and would be good to know what to aim for .(not a huge whf lore person so idk human magic system well enough)

wouldnt mind a tally by someone to see what is winning.

And kinda happy about doing eight peaks as long as it doesnt take as much time as mount vietnam did.

Wouldnt mind like 20-25 updates of ur great writing for the campaign max but please try to limit it abit to avoid the previous mistake i guess.

Maugan Ra said:

Hmm. I can't help but feel like Mathilde presenting herself as a representative of the Empire looking to fulfil ancient oaths is a bad idea, mostly for two reasons.

Firstly... claiming that is a massive overreach. She's not here on the orders or request of another, and the Empire itself is providing no formal assistance to Belegar's mission, which is why he got frustrated and decided to put out the call for basically anyone who wanted in to come meet him. Framing the appearance of a single wizard as a sign of oaths repaid kind of cheapens their value and highlights how the Empire is only sending a single wizard, rather than a small army of professional troops.

Secondly... well, it's not true. Mathilde isn't going to Karak Eight Peaks because of her ancestor's oaths, she's going because she wants adventure, or perhaps just to get well clear of the Empire for a bit and find herself. The professional relationship she has with Belegar is going to be incredibly important for her chances of survival and glory, so I strongly recommend against lying to the dude on the first meeting.

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I feel bad about the Empire being all squabble-y and not even providing a token force to the dwarves when they helped us out so much. So... you know, at least one wizard showed up on behalf of the Empire. It's a tiny salve.

And I mean, Mathilde has never really cared about fame and she has a vow of poverty, so why the heck not?

Omegahugger said:

... Is it bad if my first thought is "At least we know where it is"?

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Are you kidding? I was plotting how to use Mockery of Death to trick Roswita into revealing where Van Hal's tomb is, and now he's just buried right in the castle! That's convenient.