I think you should listen to the in-setting AccomplishingProvidence take on this situation. This offensive hasn't destroyed Krukov's forces. The most valuable units he sacrificed were Black Hand formations and Titan formations.
Considering he deployed Avatars and Purifiers in at least company strength- I don't think that fully holds up. He definitely lost some less than replaceable heavy metal he didn't want to lose here. At least he didn't lose any Redeemers like Stahl did.

I genuinely do think Krukov shot his bolt here. We know about the underminers, we know about Project Varyag, we know he intends to crack open a BZ arcology. We suspect he'll invade Finland. Providence can talk a good game but that's Kane commenting on civilian sources. Beating the underminer-Varyag push could potentially be as simple as concentrating armor assets in theater and fighting a major field battle. All of his major innovations are about breaking a siege- when the theater is the plains of Russia. The odds of Krukov achieving any meaningful success are drastically lower than when he began this operation- it's almost impossible to argue otherwise. The next assault is foreshadowed, we have an idea on the target, we know the means and a good idea of the method- we have responses. Any victory for Krukov now is dependent on our incompetence, not his plans.
 
I don't understand, is it or isn't it hard for NOD to replace these kinds of losses? As someone who hasn't played the games and have only read the thread, I was under the impression that NOD had huge quantities of people at its disposal, but was ultimately unable to manufacture replacements very well. Yet, here, in what reads like a crushing defeat, the commander views it as a successful test-run.

What strengths should we be playing to if the enemy can afford these losses? How do we make these battles costly when they happen so quickly that it's our militia that are doing most of the fighting?
 
I would like to echo what Simon said.
In the end, it depends on what you believe the goal of Krukov's attack was.
If you thought it was to gain a substantial amount of territory or similar, then yes it was a major loss.
That was not his goal. His goal was to show that he has the capacity to hit deep into BZs(especially assuming that a united NOD replicates his tactics, ideas, and forces(politics yay) on a larger scale) for a worthwhile cost(expending possibly dated (albeit highly advanced) forces and a major buildup). He succeeded well at that and is likely going to be a key player in the future united NOD.
 
Krukov is not the average Nod commander. He is one of the half dozen highest ranking, most powerful Warlords in the world. These losses are not crippling for him and he can replace them due to his productive lands being in the Urals.

At the same time this would have been ruinous losses for almost any other warlord not on his level, to which there are dozens to hundreds/thousands, most of which couldn't even match the diversionary force that got wiped out with help of the home guard. We explicitly captured one of his top lieutenants, killed another and probably incidentally wiped out another half dozen or so during the battle/retreat who were even smaller fry.

Nod as a whole can't go toe to toe with GDI but if they pick their targets they don't have to. Krukov picked a big target and got pretty lucky on one of his rolls, so he considers it worth it.
 
So, broadly, will Krukov be "the ultimate supreme uncontested leader of the Brotherhood of Nod"?Absolutely not. Will he gain influence and smaller warlords coming to him? Yes.
Because that is the thing. He did, even with just about everything going wrong, give GDI a black eye and demonstrated that he has something that can effectively be used against GDI. It is the same kind of benefit that Stahl has been gaining for deploying the infantry lasers and biprop guns, or Mehretu and Reynaldo with the assassinations. Those are serious bargaining chips that he can cash in when it comes to internal politics, and it means that Stahl can gather forces and try again. Being able to show that your methods can not only keep you alive, but actively hurt the Initiative is a barganing chip worth far more than even a battalion of heavy walkers.
 
I think you should listen to the in-setting AccomplishingProvidence take on this situation. This offensive hasn't destroyed Krukov's forces. The most valuable units he sacrificed were Black Hand formations and Titan formations.

The thing is... the Black Hand are always a mixed blessing for Nod warlords because they're fanatics about Nod ideology, and have a history of turning their guns on other Nod forces if they don't like their style. And those Titans are an extensively upgraded Tib War II unit; it is very likely that Krukov is running into the same problems we are with inability to repeatedly refit an aging platform with newer weaponry.

So the most valuable forces he lost were arguably expendable, and it's quite possible that he can replenish his material losses easily enough.

Cherdenko surrendering rather than having all the high-ranking Nod officers die in the fighting? That was a serious loss for Krukov. The rest? Not so much. I think you overestimate the scope of their losses.

Also, as a practical matter, Nod does escalate to full-scale pitched battle warfare against GDI in each major Tiberium War. For a man like Krukov, who is planning for Tib War Four, it is essential to know how his heavy units will actually perform in combat, and how well his own version of combined forces doctrine is working against GDI's defenses.

I was under the impression that Nod has a relative shortage of heavy equipment; if they had numbers and firepower, they wouldn't need to be fighting an insurgency at all. Krukov's offensive cost him Titans, which means that he has to spend his limited industrial production replacing major material losses. Or he can just not have Titans for his next offensive, which will take away some of his options. You can't threaten an armored offensive without the armor.

He also fought a major air battle against GDI, and he lost that battle decisively. This meant sacrificing some of his most valuable air assets- the Barghests- but even more importantly it meant the loss of trained pilots. Pilot training is not simple, and it is not cheap. And the loss of veteran pilots is catastrophic. The only way to gain combat experience is through combat, and lopsided dogfights are dangerous because they cement GDI dominance in the skies, which makes it harder for Nod pilots to gain that experience without dying.

Look at the effects of the British blockade on French naval ability. British crews were able to exercise and train freely in the open ocean, while French crews were stuck in port. They couldn't train properly or engage in smaller engagements, and the inevitable result is that when they did fight large battles, their performance suffered greatly.

Most of the casualties that GDI suffered were among the militia, while Nod lost armored units, aircraft, the trained crews for their armor and aircraft, and the Black Hand. Who are politically unreliable, yes, but they're also a symbol of strength and legitimacy for any Nod warlord who commands them. Losing them in a victory might have benefited Krukov; losing them in a defeat only reinforces the impression that Krukov has lost the Mandate of Heaven.

Krukov may suffer political consequences as vassal commanders view him as vulnerable. He suffered heavy losses among his core forces, the loyalists who are responsible for keeping him in power, and it's possible that the East may revolt against their "unworthy" leader. Cherdenko believes that Krukov's vassals in the Western theatre will begin fighting among themselves.

Krukov did test his doctrine. As it turns out, the best doctrine for how to fight GDI for control of the sky is..."Don't." The best doctrine for how to conduct major set-piece battles against an enemy with more artillery, better tanks, and control of the sky? Also "Don't". The best doctrine for how to mass forces to assault a fortified position? Once again, it's "Don't." Krukov has just confirmed, very painfully, that Nod is still an insurgency and that fighting GDI in the open field is profoundly unwise.

However, all of those significant defeats pale in comparison to the most important battlefield; hearts and minds. The Home Guard performed heroically, which will weaken their critics and permit GDI to launch a propaganda offensive using the Yellow Zone heroes. As you point out, Cherdenko surrendered and he defected, which is yet another vindication of Granger's policy. We may pick up a substantial number of Home Guard, or at least good citizens who can reach out to their friends and families in the Yellow Zone.

Nod's political success rests upon the belief that Nod will ultimately be victorious. It also rests on deep-seated hatred towards GDI. This offensive has weakened both their confidence and their hatred. And Nod infighting will be deeply destructive of morale, as Nod commanders send them to fight their fellow Yellow Zoners rather than pursuing the Holy War against GDI. Civil war is not good for morale, and it's entirely possible that Cherdenko can reach out to some of his old friends and offer them a better way.

Krukov did test his doctrine. As it turns out, the best doctrine for how to fight GDI for control of the sky is..."Don't." The best doctrine for how to conduct major set-piece battles against an enemy with more artillery, better tanks, and control of the sky? Also "Don't". The best doctrine for how to mass forces to assault a fortified position? Once again, it's "Don't." Krukov has just confirmed, very painfully, that Nod is still an insurgency and that fighting GDI in the open field is profoundly unwise.

"Krukov lives, and his industrial base still exists". Yes. And that's all the good news for Nod. They lost their best troops, they lost their best equipment, and now it's time for yet another round of "Warlord Power Struggles" while GDI

Krukov launched an offensive, he suffered heavy losses, and he weakened his position to the point that Nod will now be engaged in a self-destructive power struggle. A struggle that, thanks to improvements in our outreach program, we are now in an excellent position to take advantage of.

As I said, if the man was a GDI spy, we'd have to be worried that he had just blown his cover.

Edit:

I would like to echo what Simon said.
In the end, it depends on what you believe the goal of Krukov's attack was.
If you thought it was to gain a substantial amount of territory or similar, then yes it was a major loss.
That was not his goal. His goal was to show that he has the capacity to hit deep into BZs(especially assuming that a united NOD replicates his tactics, ideas, and forces(politics yay) on a larger scale) for a worthwhile cost(expending possibly dated (albeit highly advanced) forces and a major buildup). He succeeded well at that and is likely going to be a key player in the future united NOD.

If his goal was to demonstrate that he has the capacity to launch a disastrously failed offensive, then mission accomplished!

He traded his aircraft, his armor, and his Black Hand elites for our militia. He also witnessed the defection of one of his major warlord subordinates, the surrender of a large number of Nod soldiers, and the likely collapse of West Russia into a Nod power struggle.

If this is winning, please give us more Nod victories. I pray that Nod does adopt his brilliant doctrines so that they can throw away more valuable assets making suicidal attacks against heavily fortified positions.

Krukov, man, we all love you. But you have to stop taking these risks. Sooner or later, they're going to catch on.

So, broadly, will Krukov be "the ultimate supreme uncontested leader of the Brotherhood of Nod"?Absolutely not. Will he gain influence and smaller warlords coming to him? Yes.
Because that is the thing. He did, even with just about everything going wrong, give GDI a black eye and demonstrated that he has something that can effectively be used against GDI. It is the same kind of benefit that Stahl has been gaining for deploying the infantry lasers and biprop guns, or Mehretu and Reynaldo with the assassinations. Those are serious bargaining chips that he can cash in when it comes to internal politics, and it means that Stahl can gather forces and try again. Being able to show that your methods can not only keep you alive, but actively hurt the Initiative is a barganing chip worth far more than even a battalion of heavy walkers.

Unless Cherdenoko is wrong- and he's in a good position to know- West Russia is going to disintegrate into infighting. With both of Krukov's major subordinates gone, the small fry are going to fight among themselves for power. Nod warlords fighting each other is obviously bad in terms of dead soldiers and lost equipment, but it's even worse in terms of morale, because it's hard to convince the rank and file that they want to die in inglorious battle between Warlord Dmitri and Warlord Vladimir.

Krukov has lost influence in the West. If his overly ambitious subordinate in the East thinks that he's weakened, Krukov may be facing yet another battle for control of the East. He witnessed the defection of a major Nod warlord under his command, and the surrender of that warlord's army.

If Nod wants to "give GDI a black eye" at the cost of their best equipment, their best soldiers, and a major propaganda victory, I only wish they would give us more black eyes. Please.
 
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So, broadly, will Krukov be "the ultimate supreme uncontested leader of the Brotherhood of Nod"?Absolutely not. Will he gain influence and smaller warlords coming to him? Yes.
Because that is the thing. He did, even with just about everything going wrong, give GDI a black eye and demonstrated that he has something that can effectively be used against GDI. It is the same kind of benefit that Stahl has been gaining for deploying the infantry lasers and biprop guns, or Mehretu and Reynaldo with the assassinations. Those are serious bargaining chips that he can cash in when it comes to internal politics, and it means that Stahl can gather forces and try again. Being able to show that your methods can not only keep you alive, but actively hurt the Initiative is a barganing chip worth far more than even a battalion of heavy walkers.
So basically, in the short term this cost him quite a bit, in the middle turn it gives him even more influence over the Siberian warlords who pay him tribute, and and in the long term it gives him a bit more credibility with his peers.

Whether he can really follow up on this is what everything rests in the balance on. Truth be told, the amount of support he's going to get for essentially crumpling a designated crumple zone GDI set up to take this sort of punishment leads me to assume the NODs warlords really haven't fully adapted to GDI having a relatively expendable frontier they can easily absorb damage to. It really seems like they're used to a breach in the defensive lines indicating they got really close to GDI's vulnerable interior, so they overvalue cracking and devastating a fortress intended to absorb that sort of punishment.

If he had done that sort of damage to an arcology, or Medina/Mecca or Chicago? He could have unseated GDI's position in the entire theater. As it is he almost cut off the connection between Europe and Finland. Which is neat and all, but the Baltic is a GDI lake and I imagine there's pretty substantial air lift assets in Europe.
 
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I was under the impression that Nod has a relative shortage of heavy equipment; if they had numbers and firepower, they wouldn't need to be fighting an insurgency at all. Krukov's offensive cost him Titans, which means that he has to spend his limited industrial production replacing major material losses. Or he can just not have Titans for his next offensive, which will take away some of his options. You can't threaten an armored offensive without the armor.

He also fought a major air battle against GDI, and he lost that battle decisively. This meant sacrificing some of his most valuable air assets- the Barghests- but even more importantly it meant the loss of trained pilots. Pilot training is not simple, and it is not cheap. And the loss of veteran pilots is catastrophic. The only way to gain combat experience is through combat, and lopsided dogfights are dangerous because they cement GDI dominance in the skies, which makes it harder for Nod pilots to gain that experience without dying.

Look at the effects of the British blockade on French naval ability. British crews were able to exercise and train freely in the open ocean, while French crews were stuck in port. They couldn't train properly or engage in smaller engagements, and the inevitable result is that when they did fight large battles, their performance suffered greatly.

Most of the casualties that GDI suffered were among the militia, while Nod lost armored units, aircraft, the trained crews for their armor and aircraft, and the Black Hand. Who are politically unreliable, yes, but they're also a symbol of strength and legitimacy for any Nod warlord who commands them. Losing them in a victory might have benefited Krukov; losing them in a defeat only reinforces the impression that Krukov has lost the Mandate of Heaven.

Krukov may suffer political consequences as vassal commanders view him as vulnerable. He suffered heavy losses among his core forces, the loyalists who are responsible for keeping him in power, and it's possible that the East may revolt against their "unworthy" leader. Cherdenko believes that Krukov's vassals in the Western theatre will begin fighting among themselves.

Krukov did test his doctrine. As it turns out, the best doctrine for how to fight GDI for control of the sky is..."Don't." The best doctrine for how to conduct major set-piece battles against an enemy with more artillery, better tanks, and control of the sky? Also "Don't". The best doctrine for how to mass forces to assault a fortified position? Once again, it's "Don't." Krukov has just confirmed, very painfully, that Nod is still an insurgency and that fighting GDI in the open field is profoundly unwise.

However, all of those significant defeats pale in comparison to the most important battlefield; hearts and minds. The Home Guard performed heroically, which will weaken their critics and permit GDI to launch a propaganda offensive using the Yellow Zone heroes. As you point out, Cherdenko surrendered and he defected, which is yet another vindication of Granger's policy. We may pick up a substantial number of Home Guard, or at least good citizens who can reach out to their friends and families in the Yellow Zone.

Nod's political success rests upon the belief that Nod will ultimately be victorious. It also rests on deep-seated hatred towards GDI. This offensive has weakened both their confidence and their hatred. And Nod infighting will be deeply destructive of morale, as Nod commanders send them to fight their fellow Yellow Zoners rather than pursuing the Holy War against GDI. Civil war is not good for morale, and it's entirely possible that Cherdenko can reach out to some of his old friends and offer them a better way.

Krukov did test his doctrine. As it turns out, the best doctrine for how to fight GDI for control of the sky is..."Don't." The best doctrine for how to conduct major set-piece battles against an enemy with more artillery, better tanks, and control of the sky? Also "Don't". The best doctrine for how to mass forces to assault a fortified position? Once again, it's "Don't." Krukov has just confirmed, very painfully, that Nod is still an insurgency and that fighting GDI in the open field is profoundly unwise.

"Krukov lives, and his industrial base still exists". Yes. And that's all the good news for Nod. They lost their best troops, they lost their best equipment, and now it's time for yet another round of "Warlord Power Struggles" while GDI

Krukov launched an offensive, he suffered heavy losses, and he weakened his position to the point that Nod will now be engaged in a self-destructive power struggle. A struggle that, thanks to improvements in our outreach program, we are now in an excellent position to take advantage of.

As I said, if the man was a GDI spy, we'd have to be worried that he had just blown his cover.
So, did you read the GM's post literally just above yours?
 
Whether he can really follow up on this is what everything rests in the balance on. Truth be told, the amount of support he's going to get for essentially crumpling a designated crumple zone GDI set up to take this sort of punishment leads me to assume the NODs warlords really haven't fully adapted to GDI having a relatively expendable frontier they can easily absorb damage to. It really seems like they're used to a breach in the defensive lines indicating they got really close to GDI's vulnerable interior, so they overvalue cracking and devastating a fortress intended to absorb that sort of punishment.
On one hand, absolutely. It is something where the mere act of cracking a fortress is seen as a more serious victory than it actually was. On the other hand, it puts him up with Mehretu or Reynaldo in terms of damage done to GDI. Because nobody else has been able to do even that much. Now, a fair bit of that is due to the Brotherhood consistently rolling terribly, but still.
 
Truth be told, the amount of support he's going to get for essentially crumpling a designated crumple zone GDI set up to take this sort of punishment leads me to assume the NODs warlords really haven't fully adapted to GDI having a relatively expendable frontier they can easily absorb damage to. It really seems like they're used to a breach in the defensive lines indicating they got really close to GDI's vulnerable interior, so they overvalue cracking and devastating a fortress intended to absorb that sort of punishment.
To be fair, I imagine that there are a fair few people in the GDI leadership who are also unused to having this crumple zone. I'm just glad that softer targets like our Middle Eastern holdings or Chicago are currently beyond Krukov's sphere of influence.
 
On the gripping hand, I'm not well read on the capabilities of modern Earthquake bombs or bunker busters.
It's good to keep in mind the capabilities of Bunker-Buster bombs from other C&C Franchises. They show up as an upgrade for the USA's jets in Generals, and they do a very nice job of punishing units trying to hide in GLA Tunnel Networks.

However, that's an aircraft targeting a stationary structure, not aircraft trying to snipe underground tunneling bastards that are rapidly moving. And the air-dropping of the earth-penetrating-bomb is essential for gravity to help do the job, so we can't just whip up some quick and easy artillery shell. I don't think it's a very good solution, even with Wingman drones to help tote extra loads of exotic ordnance...
 
I'm of the opinion that the political windfall Krukov has reaped here poses a danger of emboldening more of Nod generally if we don't act. Conveniently however, we've just received the location of several of his industrial centers.

I opened up earlier with a meme of ordering some Auroras because Ithillid confirmed we could make the kills on those factories if we had said bombers, over on discord. I'd strongly recommend doing the development project next turn, and keeping an open mind about doing the deployment the turn after if it's not cost-prohibitive so we can strike before the intel goes stale.

That does a lot of things all at once for us - it makes an example out of Krukov which should deter other moonshot attempts by other warlords, it defangs him by gutting both his manufacturing and the political capital he's banking on to quickly replenish his forces, and it forces him to divert resources away from whatever the hell "Project Varyag" is. Those last two bits are more important than they'd normally be, since he's already bold enough to Try It and Find Out.

In an RTS, harassing the enemy's economy is an essential skill. If Krukov wants to fancy himself as player 2 against us, then I say let's take this opportunity to show him what that really means.
 
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So, did you read the GM's post literally just above yours?

Is Ithillid the QM? Thanks, I didn't notice that the first time.

So, from reading his post, it seems that Krukov will gain support among Nod for "giving GDI a black eye". Because style over substance, and he did major damage to a Fortress City which is designed to be attacked.

My conclusion is that Nod is in serious trouble, because as the last post says, "To contextualize the rapid intensification of the northern war, it is the result of a general jockeying for position among the warlords of the Brotherhood of Nod."

They're stuck in a mindset where they view their colleagues as rivals, and they're all competing for the same limited pool of resources. Krukov is willing to suffer significant losses to improve his relative position compared to his peers, even if it makes Nod's absolute position worse.

Could someone link me to the battle where Bintang distinguished herself? She seems to be one of the most dangerous warlords, while Gideon is a PR man who shouldn't be commanding an army and Krukov just fed his best troops into a meat grinder.
 
Krukov can both score credit with other NOD factions and have ultimately wasted his forces for minimal military gain. Honestly if wannabe inner circle members try to get Kane-senpai to notice them by attacking Green Zone fortresses that are intentionally built as our ablative armor "PLEASE ATTACK HERE" tar pits, that means our strategy is working surprisingly well and we should keep it up. Losing St. Petersburg is annoying but we can rebuild it relatively cheaply on the scale that GDI operates on, it stopped outside of pre-war territory what would have 8 years ago been a deep penetration raid into B-1, and Krukov's western forces are in disarray for years trying to pull back together as a result.

Sure the crumple zone crumpled, but that's what it was designed to do. It functioned as intended and absorbed the shock, we'll bang the dents out and get right back to pushing the lines forward faster than Krukov can corral his western subordinates. If anybody else from the Brotherhood would like to blow their loads attacking into the teeth of heavily fortified military zones then please by all means do so, that's going to end better for us than almost any other ways they could use their energy.
 
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I don't understand, is it or isn't it hard for NOD to replace these kinds of losses? As someone who hasn't played the games and have only read the thread, I was under the impression that NOD had huge quantities of people at its disposal, but was ultimately unable to manufacture replacements very well. Yet, here, in what reads like a crushing defeat, the commander views it as a successful test-run.

What strengths should we be playing to if the enemy can afford these losses? How do we make these battles costly when they happen so quickly that it's our militia that are doing most of the fighting?
Nod can replace losses; they have even better tiberium manufacturing than we do. However, it is not as convenient for them to replace losses, and it is made more inconvenient for them to replace losses to high-end equipment by the fact that production of the most advanced Nod weaponry is often a carefully hoarded secret among the elite within Nod who are relatively trusted and part of Kane's inner circle.

Now, this battle definitely cost Krukov relatively more than it cost us. But he fought a stand-up battle against GDI that got far enough to inflict actual infrastructure damage and reach civilians. He even caused us a certain amount of panic with the sudden eruption of his Subterranean-APC-on-steroids vehicles.

And that's something not every Nod warlord out there could do.

I'm of the opinion that the political windfall Krukov has reaped here poses a danger of emboldening more of Nod generally if we don't act. Conveniently however, we've just received the location of several of his industrial centers.

I opened up earlier with a meme of ordering some Auroras because Ithillid confirmed we could make the kills on those factories if we had said bombers, over on discord. I'd strongly recommend doing the development project next turn, and keeping an open mind about doing the deployment the turn after if it's not cost-prohibitive so we can strike before the intel goes stale.

That does a lot of things all at once for us - it makes an example out of Krukov which should deter other moonshot attempts by other warlords, it defangs him by gutting both his manufacturing and the political capital he's banking on to quickly replenish his forces, and it forces him to divert resources away from whatever the hell "Project Varyag" is. Those last two bits are more important than they'd normally be, since he's already bold enough to Try It and Find Out.

In an RTS, harassing the enemy's economy is an essential skill. If Krukov wants to fancy himself as player 2 against us, then I say let's take this opportunity to show him what that really means.
Not a bad idea. It might well be worth it to develop that capability quickly despite everything else we have on our plates.

Is Ithillid the QM? Thanks, I didn't notice that the first time.

So, from reading his post, it seems that Krukov will gain support among Nod for "giving GDI a black eye". Because style over substance, and he did major damage to a Fortress City which is designed to be attacked.

My conclusion is that Nod is in serious trouble, because as the last post says, "To contextualize the rapid intensification of the northern war, it is the result of a general jockeying for position among the warlords of the Brotherhood of Nod."

They're stuck in a mindset where they view their colleagues as rivals, and they're all competing for the same limited pool of resources. Krukov is willing to suffer significant losses to improve his relative position compared to his peers, even if it makes Nod's absolute position worse.

Could someone link me to the battle where Bintang distinguished herself? She seems to be one of the most dangerous warlords, while Gideon is a PR man who shouldn't be commanding an army and Krukov just fed his best troops into a meat grinder.
I don't think Krukov fed more than a fraction of "his best troops" into that meat grinder, but that aside...

This is kind of normal for Nod during the long periods when Kane goes into occlusion and isn't directly coordinating them. They split up into warlord factions, which are often too busy struggling against each other and competing for influence to be effectual against GDI.

Then Kane re-emerges, has to practically reconquer the Brotherhood of Nod from scratch, and leads it as a coherent body, simultaneously dumping out a wealth of heavy equipment and new technology in the hands of his personal troops. And that is when Nod rises up to shake the foundations of the world and sends GDI to the brink of disaster.

But in the in-between times? Yeah, we can usually bat Nod around pretty well.

That's the pattern we saw in both interwar eras- between Tib Wars 1 and 2, and 2 and 3.
 
He lost a lot of his new airframes from the sound of it though with our older firehawks trading even or better. As long as we keep mil spending going I do not think we will have issues, much less with philly 4 and 5 finishing both to get more dice as well as adding +7 per die so each die gets more done letting us finish more projects for the same number of die.
 
I opened up earlier with a meme of ordering some Auroras because Ithillid confirmed we could make the kills on those factories if we had said bombers, over on discord. I'd strongly recommend doing the development project next turn, and keeping an open mind about doing the deployment the turn after if it's not cost-prohibitive so we can strike before the intel goes stale.
I'm not too worried about the intel getting outdated, since entire factories aren't exactly the easiest thing to move, but am more concerned about being able to hamper Project Varyag before its completion.

Unfortunately, I don't see use doing the deployment soon, given how many other projects are already required and the Air Force still waiting on the Orca deployment.
 
So, here's a slight reshuffling of my draft plan to react strongly, perhaps too strongly, to recent events. Key points:

1) I drop the Super Orca refit. Two of the dice go to Shell Plants, and the third goes to the Aurora bomber development program.

2) The civilians caught in the middle at St. Petersburg illustrate some of the very good reasons we don't want to house civilians in a Yellow Zone fortress town if we can possibly avoid it. This makes building more housing of some kind urgently more important in the runup to the impending Nod offensives that will strike all over the world. We need to keep at least a +8 reserve of Housing at all times (since we have two phases of Fortress Towns already built, and that's our "last" eight points of Housing). Therefore...

3a) I spend two dice on Blue Zone Apartments instead of one, giving us a good chance of completing another phase and increasing our housing margin. This lets us accommodate more refugees within the secure Blue Zones and evacuate civilians from our strategic 'crumple zones' in the Green Zones.

3b) I also spend a die on Fortress Towns. This won't complete the phase, but is resource-neutral when paired with the apartment die, and positions us to even more heavily entrench in the Green Zones during 2059Q1 in anticipation for a Nod general offensive.

3c) This comes at the price of reducing ICS spending, which is otherwise very desirable for the impending war. Arguably I am overreacting and we should keep our Infrastructure focus largely on ensuring we have strong Logistics to deal with bad things wherever they do happen.

4) The single die on Advanced EVA Development is demoted to Domestic Animal Programs, in exchange for freeing up 10 R. Along with the 10 R from turning two Super Orca refit dice into shell production dice, this frees up 20 R to activate another macrospinner die. This gives us an excellent chance to finish, and a reasonable chance of getting enough rollover that Reykjavik Phase 3 might be a competitive challenger against Johannesburg Phase 4 for efficiency at returning Capital Goods on investment... which in turn might give us a good reason to shift our main myomer production facility somewhere farther away from that one Nod warlord, Mister Sabotage.

Disclaimer: This plan does react strongly to the Battle of St. Petersburg. Perhaps too strongly.



2058Q4 BUDGET:
710 R
6 Free dice

710/710 Resources spent (with 70 R on Infra, was 700)
6/6 Free Dice allocated

[] Plan Draft WELP, RUSSIA JUST HAPPENED

Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 70 R
-[] Integrated Cargo System 0/800 (2 Dice, 30 R) (2/11 median)
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 3) 25/200 (1 Die, 20 R) (1/2.25 median)
-[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 2) 28/160 (2 Dice, 20R) (74% chance)

Heavy Industry 4/4 Dice + 2 Free Dice 120 R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 2) 22/300 (6 Dice, 120 R) (98% chance, median ~127/300 on next phase)

Light and Chemical Industry 3/4 Dice 60 R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 2) 1/160 (2 Dice, 40 R) (80% chance)

Agriculture 2/3 Dice 20 R
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Development 0/40 (1 Die, 20R) (93% chance)
-[] Security Review

Tiberium 6/6 Dice 150 R
-[] Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 1) 0/200 (3 Dice, 90 R) (79% chance)
-[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 1) 0/200 (3 Dice, 60 R) (79% chance)

Orbital 5/5 Dice + 2 Free Dice 140 R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 362/715 (7 dice, 140 R) (94% chance, median ~100/1430 on next phase)

Services 4/4 Dice 50 R
-[] Green Zone Teacher Colleges (2 Dice, 10 R) (13% chance)
-[] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development 0/60 (1 Die, 20 R) (78% chance)
-[] Domestic Animal Programs 0/200 (1 Die, 10 R) (1/3 median)

Military 6/6 Dice + 2 Free Dice 110 R
-[] Aurora Strike Bomber Development 0/40 (1 Die, 15 R) (95% chance)
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 3/300 (2 Dice, 20 R) (2/3.5 median)
-[] Naval Defense Laser Refits 121/330 (3 Dice, 45 R) (50% chance)
-[] Bigass Sonic Cannon Rollout 0/??? (2 Dice, 30 R) (??% chance)

(consider shifting dice to enable rifle development for better rifles?)

Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice
-[] Agriculture Review (3 dice)
 
That's the pattern we saw in both interwar eras- between Tib Wars 1 and 2, and 2 and 3.
In this latest Interwar era, Kane is still alive. I'm starting to get the feeling that with Warlords Jockeying for position would probably start to cull each other, leaving the few that remains to be Kane's new top military commanders for the upcoming war. It honestly doesn't surprise me if that is the case.

@Simon_Jester, I'd rather replace one of the Military options for one of the Steel Talons options just so they don't feel neglected again.
 
Excellent battle post which I will attempt to divine signals from.

Yet the Home Guard held firm. With presighted targets and the light of the dawn giving clear vision, the ordinance equipped troopers retaliated. RPG-43s barked from firing slits as integrated T15 and T20 missile launchers gave their voices to the orchestra of death. As the payloads rocked the Titan frames and overwhelmed the Spitfire systems, Miran gave the order for the emplaced railguns to fire.
I thought GDI's main rocket launchers were called FGM-90? Are these captured or copied NOD weapons?
The Guardian turrets had revealed their positions to destroy the Titans and allowed the Spectre platforms to triangulate and fire– 155mm shells crackling out of the stealthed vehicles and into the Guardians. As the railguns fell silent from falling shells and the need to retreat, Venon teams drew fire as the mark targets for cruise missiles from the Nod's base in Setigory, blowing apart all forwardmost bunkers and emplacements as the offensive encroached forward.
As before, this is why the counter-stealth sensor is marked as very high priority.
With Krukov unable to load many of the supplies, let alone his artillery batteries and cruise missile launchers, the city was effectively flattened in the ensuing engagement, with many losses, including the death of Moskvin.
Unlike Gideon, here we were able to pursue NOD and in doing so be able to damage their organization and prevent them salvaging equipment.
Even more, the recovered corpses of the Afanc-class Gana turned out to have been heavily improved with intentional disparity in shapes and sizes meant to foul target priorities– seemingly taking lessons from the Battle of Chicago to heart
Which can be solved with more and better gun (which we are already doing), as well as combining Recon (satellite and ground) with strike bombers to interdict NOD logistics.
While Cherdenko is privy to the locations of several complexes, he made the uncharacteristic request to not strike the mountain towns, as while portions of them are shielded by the mountains, they also hosted the population centres of the Brotherhood, with over a million civilians. Lastly, he knew that Krukov had at least one major project in mind, dubbed "Project Varyag''. Though Cherdenko does not know what it entailed, it had taxed the Eastern Warlords in tributes over the past years.
What is the estimated population base controlled by Krukov and aligned warlords? How much of a dent did we make in their population?

Varyag originally meant Varangian or Viking. I'm going with the project being somekind of supersoldier or necromancy.
 
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In this latest Interwar era, Kane is still alive. I'm starting to get the feeling that with Warlords Jockeying for position would probably start to cull each other, leaving the few that remains to be Kane's new top military commanders for the upcoming war. It honestly doesn't surprise me if that is the case.
The major warlords are too far apart geographically to cull each other. I think it likely that they're trying to compete for prestige, both among themselves and with Kane. But not to actively try to destroy each other; they're not even on the same continents, for crying out loud...

@Simon_Jester, I'd rather replace one of the Military options for one of the Steel Talons options just so they don't feel neglected again.
Look, we've got an impending war popping up in about 2-4 quarters. Right now I'm evaluating every die of Military spending with an eye to "and this will help us deal with a recognized major hole in our military posture how?"

Sonic cannons are for ZOCOM because we just greatly extended their commitments on the eve of a war.

Naval point defense is so that our capital ship classes can participate in naval battles without getting cut to pieces by Nod missile salvoes.

Super Orcas are because basically ALL the branches want them right now for air support, and/or Shell Plants are because the Ground Forces badly, badly need more if they are to successfully prosecute a global military campaign, even one that happens without Nod's help.

The Aurora bomber project is the only thing I'm considering for Q4 that isn't specifically intended to fill a hole. And that's because a fast rollout might let us inflict disproportionate damage on Krukov in the wake of his recent defeat, and even then I'm seriously questioning the wisdom of doing it.

What do the Talons have, that's specifically that urgent? Maybe the Havoc. You want to flip dice around to make that happen, go ahead.
 
Initiative Firster claims that Green Zone recruited Home Guard formations would be unreliable in combat or turn their guns on GDI's own forces are proven invalid. The strategy of securing the Blue Zone with a Green Zone territorial buffer is proven successful, as without our forward deployment in the Green Zone, Krukov's tank units would have driven straight into the Blue Zones behind them.

They don't just have egg on their face. They have the whole carton.

Wonder how many Yellow and Green zoners we pick up for military service vs Militia service.

Cherdenko surrendering rather than having all the high-ranking Nod officers die in the fighting? That was a serious loss for Krukov. The rest? Not so much. I think you overestimate the scope of their losses.

InOps is going to have a field day. Wonder what data they had on them.

Nod's political success rests upon the belief that Nod will ultimately be victorious. It also rests on deep-seated hatred towards GDI. This offensive has weakened both their confidence and their hatred. And Nod infighting will be deeply destructive of morale, as Nod commanders send them to fight their fellow Yellow Zoners rather than pursuing the Holy War against GDI. Civil war is not good for morale, and it's entirely possible that Cherdenko can reach out to some of his old friends and offer them a better way.

I'm not sure it's that bad for them.

But getting mauled by Militia and civilians is not a good look for them.

Not sure how or if that'll effect immigration.

On one hand, absolutely. It is something where the mere act of cracking a fortress is seen as a more serious victory than it actually was. On the other hand, it puts him up with Mehretu or Reynaldo in terms of damage done to GDI. Because nobody else has been able to do even that much. Now, a fair bit of that is due to the Brotherhood consistently rolling terribly, but still.

If he had won? Even if he had lost forces afterward? He might be the leader of Nod until challenged or Kane shows up. You've mention this before but like Nod factions will fall in line behind a strong leader without Kane to follow.
 
I'm not too worried about the intel getting outdated, since entire factories aren't exactly the easiest thing to move, but am more concerned about being able to hamper Project Varyag before its completion.

Unfortunately, I don't see use doing the deployment soon, given how many other projects are already required and the Air Force still waiting on the Orca deployment.
Y'know, it occurs to me that we might be able to bypass the need for a FB-22 analog to perform deep strikes by rolling out OSRCT and simply hot-dropping a fighter wing with full tanks right on top of a factory complex.
 
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