Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
...
🤔
I can't say I wouldn't be open to a reconciliation with the majority of NOD.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
'Begging'? Not really started yet. This is just the next logical step to roll out.
As for the project, it appear a couple of years ago. However, the factories are power hungry. We'll need 24 power for the full set.
I expect we'll be getting them done some time late in this plan. Although we may manage to start on them as early as next year.
staplesdex2
CLASSFIED
I also read that blurb about the GDI Director would also roll out some Education Proposals in the next few turns. I get the feeling it would concern Yellow Zone Education and the like. Are we going forward with that in the future? We might eat some -PS if it gets ignored in the long run.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I was given to believe that the properties of any given steel are dependent on its crystal structure, which in turn is reliant on its heat treatment and working--and that casting from molten steel is conducive to neither.
I could believe casting a rough hollow tube and working/heat treating it as required, but not casting and going straight to final boring.
But I'm no metalworker, so I can't say for certain.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
One factory would be easy enough. All six is going to require a ton of overhead from HI, since we'll need 6 Capital Goods and 24 Energy. And the thing is, those six factories only cover "Set 1", which "will only be enough to equip the tip of the spear". So in all likelyhood a full-scale rollout will take at least two more Sets of factories.
5 sets, total. Including ZOCOM.
Just for the Ground Forces, mind you.
Honestly with the mention of the new naval PD being based on Talons' laser tech I feel the need to state that Talons' plasma weapons tech should be done sooner rather than later since their tech will filter out to the rest of the military projects as we've seen with the laser tech.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Reconciliation...eh...
It's worth doing to weaken Kane and his leadership cohort--if that's what it does. I'm not particularly keen to give him a ready made vehicle to power after...well, everything.
But we're already nibbling at the ragged edges of NOD--that's what Mecca was for, ultimately--and I think we'll continue doing so as opportunities arise. Reconciliation in bite-size chunks, if you will.
(late) SCED Mathpost:
Tanegashima Space Center (Stage 3) 532/400 NAT 100
Surface Exploration EVA Development 388/500
Mars Landing Mission Addendum: Return sample of transuranics 55/50
Mission: Surface Exploration Ceres 83/100
Tanegashima Space Center (Stage 3) 532/400 NAT 100
Surface Exploration EVA Development 388/500
Mars Landing Mission Addendum: Return sample of transuranics 55/50
Mission: Surface Exploration Ceres 83/100
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
For a mid-20th century power it's hard. For us, it's relatively easy. Making and working comparatively basic metals like steel and brass is easy because gigantic heavy-industrial behemoth. Having the rare elements like tungsten that you need to machine or remachine those metals is easy because tiberium.
In Soviet Plan Quest, "capital goods" usually means machinery, 'heavy metal.' For GDI, it's computer chips and electronics in general, because that's the stuff we can't casually mass-produce in multi-megaton lots. So this specific project is easy for us.
I suspect our response time will improve markedly as we get more levels of ORSCT station. If there's only one station, there are practical limits on how fast you can get drop pods to a location that isn't directly under the station's orbital track, and still limits even if you ARE under the orbital track. If there are several such stations, things get easier.
Eh. The Navy wouldn't be proposing this if they hadn't run the analysis on the expected performance of the laser system and the known threat profiles of the Nod missiles.
I mean yeah, but it's one of like five areas that are needs. We'll be able to put Free dice somewhere, and our bounty of Orbital dice means we have way, way less need of them to hit our station targets.
So it comes down to a tug of war between Military, Heavy Industry, and maybe occasionally Infrastructure depending on how the Plan shapes up. We can deal.
I suspect that trying to meet the Plan's Capital Goods and Energy requirements with only four Heavy Industry dice will be easier than trying to meet Litvinov's educational and social objectives and Seo's research ambitions with only three Service dice.
Modern artillery pieces have generally not been cast, or such is my understanding. That was the way to make cannons for the Early Modern period, but not so much today.
Ground Forces has probably wanted zone armor since about five seconds after first seeing the specifications for it. The stuff has always been too expensive and maintenance-hungry for mass production. With myomer mass production it's juuuust becoming possible, but it's only barely becoming possible to do that as a megaproject- and probably something that'll cost us around 21 Military dice and 420 R, an overall project commitment rivaling a planned city and approaching the stabilizer constellation.
I'm seriously considering trying to do Johannesburg Phase 4 just to cut the cost of the project; it won't save us dice on net but may be worth it anyway since we do get +Capital Goods out of it.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Where did you get that from? 5 sets total is rediculously expensive.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Would also help when we want to roll out some mechs for the Steel Talons.
Unless something new appears in LCI, or we suddenly need the +Health from the BZ Light Industry sectors, I can't foresee any other use for LCI dice for a while.
Go for it.
- Location
- Alaska
NOD is caught between GDI expansion and the red zones, and every new round of mining seems to put them in a worse position and set off more fighting. On top of that, we've had many hints that the GDI doesn't have enough equipment to maintain all of its operations around the globe if a war breaks out.
Getting another round of military factories refit and stockpiling really seems worth it to me.
Getting another round of military factories refit and stockpiling really seems worth it to me.
- Location
- his hidden lair
I do think we probably want to proliferate Zone Armor sooner than later. India's only handing out these goodies for cash and prizes, they've probably got worse on the backburner. I'd much rather not have our conventional infantry fighting horrific biological killing machines (got enough of that with the Scrin let's be real) when we could have our mechanized horrific killing machines take them on instead.
BoSPaladin
The Paladin
Problem being that's a catch 22.
We need more military stuff to secure our harvesting operations, but to get more military stuff we need more money which means we need more harvesting operations.
Now granted, we can majorly invest in our military stuff just based on our current income, and we have been. In point of fact that's precisely why we're so often pushing nod back because our investment into military is currently very high.
On the other hand. More red zone harvesting operations beats back the red zones and helps give nod a bit more space so they don't screech at us as much.
It would be interesting to see what happens if/when we clear up all our green zone and start turning yellow zone... blue? most simple answer is probably that we'd then move in to secure it ourselves, but it could be interesting if we simply left some area's clear of tib that aren't under GDI's direct control.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It depends. It's ridiculously expensive for something to accomplish within a single Four Year Plan, but if you amortize it over three or so Plans it starts looking less absurd. Plus, by the time you get to Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 5), you're probably talking about manufacturing zone armor for rear area garrison forces where the need is pretty questionable from our current perspective. That's the "put literally everyone in zone armor who isn't already inside a vehicle or some other sort of advanced protection" level, and it's unsurprising that that would take several rounds of twenty-die projects to achieve, given that even properly outfitting ZOCOM was about a ten-die project requiring six 75-Progress factories, and ZOCOM only has a few divisions.
Mechs for the Talons don't cost enough to deploy to make it nearly worthwhile on its own, though it's a nice side effect.
If the Talons develop a mech that's worth rolling out to ZOCOM or Ground Forces (and the Havoc promises to be such), then that might be different.
Yeah, the problem is just booting up the Resources. Light Industry and Agriculture are kind of the forgotten fields in this Plan, because while we do have specific commitments that touch on them, they're nowhere near as burdensome as the commitments we have in literally every other area.
Though Blue Zone Light Industrial Sectors would help with our Consumer Goods target; we need to rummage up +40 from somewhere. It's perfectly manageable, arguably even easy, since we get +12 or so from arcologies by default and a sizeable thwack of Consumer Goods if we do North Boston Phase 5 (as some desire) or Tokyo (desirable as a backup to North Boston).
But it wouldn't hurt to get a few more from here or there.
That generally doesn't pan out; Nod tends to attack our harvesting operations pretty fiercely when we try. It takes a dedicated military push to secure territory for us to really sweep it clear of tiberium.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
So, just to push discussion back towards specifics, I'm throwing in my draft plan for the turn... Now, this doesn't take into account any quasi-mandates we might get in Services. The real key to this plan is that it aggressively pushes the automated shipyards to be sure of completion, to support an aggressive glacier mining expansion, while budgeting a lot of dice towards the military and in particular the naval point defense refits, since we know those to be quasi-mandatory. Currently the tentative shape of the project is based around 10 R/die naval point defense refits; if the cost turns out to be fifteen things need to get shuffled a little.
BUDGET:
585 R
6 Free dice
13 Fusion dice
585/585 Resources spent
6/6 Free Dice allocated
7/12 Fusion Dice allocated
[] Plan Surefire Shipping
Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 65 R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 548/650 (2 dice, 30 R) (91% chance)
-[] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) (2 dice, 20 R) 154/300 (60% chance, if no degradation)
-[] Integrated Cargo System (1 die, 15 R) 0/800 (1/11 median)
Heavy Industry 3/4 Dice 60 R
-[] Automated Civilian Shipyards 139/250 (3 Dice, 60 R) (98% chance)
Light and Chemical Industry 1/4 Dice 0 R
-[] Security Review
Agriculture 0/3 Dice 0 R
Tiberium 6/6 Dice + 1 Free Die 200 R
-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 11) 46/130 (2 Dice, 50 R) (98% chance)
-[] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 11) 30/180 (5 Dice, 150 R) (81% chance of two stages)
Orbital 5/5 Dice + 1 Free Die 110 R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 100/715 (5 dice, 100 R) (5/9.5 median)
-[] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 5) 79/135 (1 die, 10R) (69% chance)
Services 2/4 Dice 60 R
-[] NOD Research Initiatives 124/160 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
-[] Scrin Research Institutions 328/350 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
Military 6/6 Dice + 3 Free Dice 90? R
-[] Shimmer Shield Development 0/60 (1 die, 20 R) (73% chance)
-[] Hydrofoil Shipyards 69/85 (1 die 10 R) (100% chance)
-[] Naval Point Defense 0/??? 4? dice 40?R (??% chance)
-[] Ablat Plating Deployment (Stage 4) 45/200 (2 dice, 20 R) (37% chance)
-[] Security Review
Bureaucracy 3/3 + 1 Free Die
-[] Military Review (2 dice)
-[] Light Industry Review (2 dice)
BUDGET:
585 R
6 Free dice
13 Fusion dice
585/585 Resources spent
6/6 Free Dice allocated
7/12 Fusion Dice allocated
[] Plan Surefire Shipping
Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 65 R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 548/650 (2 dice, 30 R) (91% chance)
-[] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) (2 dice, 20 R) 154/300 (60% chance, if no degradation)
-[] Integrated Cargo System (1 die, 15 R) 0/800 (1/11 median)
Heavy Industry 3/4 Dice 60 R
-[] Automated Civilian Shipyards 139/250 (3 Dice, 60 R) (98% chance)
Light and Chemical Industry 1/4 Dice 0 R
-[] Security Review
Agriculture 0/3 Dice 0 R
Tiberium 6/6 Dice + 1 Free Die 200 R
-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 11) 46/130 (2 Dice, 50 R) (98% chance)
-[] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 11) 30/180 (5 Dice, 150 R) (81% chance of two stages)
Orbital 5/5 Dice + 1 Free Die 110 R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 100/715 (5 dice, 100 R) (5/9.5 median)
-[] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 5) 79/135 (1 die, 10R) (69% chance)
Services 2/4 Dice 60 R
-[] NOD Research Initiatives 124/160 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
-[] Scrin Research Institutions 328/350 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
Military 6/6 Dice + 3 Free Dice 90? R
-[] Shimmer Shield Development 0/60 (1 die, 20 R) (73% chance)
-[] Hydrofoil Shipyards 69/85 (1 die 10 R) (100% chance)
-[] Naval Point Defense 0/??? 4? dice 40?R (??% chance)
-[] Ablat Plating Deployment (Stage 4) 45/200 (2 dice, 20 R) (37% chance)
-[] Security Review
Bureaucracy 3/3 + 1 Free Die
-[] Military Review (2 dice)
-[] Light Industry Review (2 dice)
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Minor note, but we actually have 590 Resources for next turn. We went from +5 to +10 from Taxes.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Huh. Good point.
Well, in keeping with the general theme of "shipping," I'll flip the free die from commsats to contributing to the integrated cargo system. That gets us a bit closer to turning the project into something we can plausibly accomplish with two more quarters of serious investment, maybe three; it'd be really nice to have that coming online in 2059Q1 or Q2 to help us make transportation more efficient in the face of a likely worldwide campaign against Nod.
The big X-factor in my mind is whether Naval Point Defense turns out to be 10 R/die or 15 R/die. In the latter case we can't afford to activate four dice of it without cutting something painful, so either:
1) Fewer military dice get activated (will we have a Bureaucracy option to sink more Free dice on?), or
2) We sacrifice Shimmer Shield, see if there's a 5 R/die project that comes out of that new Nod light armor, or otherwise make major compromises in the Military category itself.
BUDGET:
590 R
6 Free dice
13 Fusion dice
590/590 Resources spent
6/6 Free Dice allocated
6/12 Fusion Dice allocated
[] Plan Surefire Shipping
Infrastructure 5/5 Dice + 1 Free Die 80 R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 548/650 (2 dice, 30 R) (91% chance)
-[] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) (2 dice, 20 R) 154/300 (60% chance, if no degradation)
-[] Integrated Cargo System (2 dice, 30 R) 0/800 (2/11 median)
Heavy Industry 3/4 Dice 60 R
-[] Automated Civilian Shipyards 139/250 (3 Dice, 60 R) (98% chance)
Light and Chemical Industry 1/4 Dice 0 R
-[] Security Review
Agriculture 0/3 Dice 0 R
Tiberium 6/6 Dice + 1 Free Die 200 R
-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 11) 46/130 (2 Dice, 50 R) (98% chance)
-[] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 11) 30/180 (5 Dice, 150 R) (81% chance of two stages)
Orbital 5/5 Dice 100 R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 100/715 (5 dice, 100 R) (5/9.5 median)
Services 2/4 Dice 60 R
-[] NOD Research Initiatives 124/160 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
-[] Scrin Research Institutions 328/350 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
Military 6/6 Dice + 3 Free Dice 90? R
-[] Shimmer Shield Development 0/60 (1 die, 20 R) (73% chance)
-[] Hydrofoil Shipyards 69/85 (1 die 10 R) (100% chance)
-[] Naval Point Defense 0/??? 4? dice 40?R (??% chance)
-[] Ablat Plating Deployment (Stage 4) 45/200 (2 dice, 20 R) (37% chance)
-[] Security Review
Bureaucracy 3/3 + 1 Free Die
-[] Military Review (2 dice)
-[] Light Industry Review (2 dice)
Well, in keeping with the general theme of "shipping," I'll flip the free die from commsats to contributing to the integrated cargo system. That gets us a bit closer to turning the project into something we can plausibly accomplish with two more quarters of serious investment, maybe three; it'd be really nice to have that coming online in 2059Q1 or Q2 to help us make transportation more efficient in the face of a likely worldwide campaign against Nod.
The big X-factor in my mind is whether Naval Point Defense turns out to be 10 R/die or 15 R/die. In the latter case we can't afford to activate four dice of it without cutting something painful, so either:
1) Fewer military dice get activated (will we have a Bureaucracy option to sink more Free dice on?), or
2) We sacrifice Shimmer Shield, see if there's a 5 R/die project that comes out of that new Nod light armor, or otherwise make major compromises in the Military category itself.
BUDGET:
590 R
6 Free dice
13 Fusion dice
590/590 Resources spent
6/6 Free Dice allocated
6/12 Fusion Dice allocated
[] Plan Surefire Shipping
Infrastructure 5/5 Dice + 1 Free Die 80 R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 548/650 (2 dice, 30 R) (91% chance)
-[] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) (2 dice, 20 R) 154/300 (60% chance, if no degradation)
-[] Integrated Cargo System (2 dice, 30 R) 0/800 (2/11 median)
Heavy Industry 3/4 Dice 60 R
-[] Automated Civilian Shipyards 139/250 (3 Dice, 60 R) (98% chance)
Light and Chemical Industry 1/4 Dice 0 R
-[] Security Review
Agriculture 0/3 Dice 0 R
Tiberium 6/6 Dice + 1 Free Die 200 R
-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 11) 46/130 (2 Dice, 50 R) (98% chance)
-[] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 11) 30/180 (5 Dice, 150 R) (81% chance of two stages)
Orbital 5/5 Dice 100 R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 100/715 (5 dice, 100 R) (5/9.5 median)
Services 2/4 Dice 60 R
-[] NOD Research Initiatives 124/160 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
-[] Scrin Research Institutions 328/350 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
Military 6/6 Dice + 3 Free Dice 90? R
-[] Shimmer Shield Development 0/60 (1 die, 20 R) (73% chance)
-[] Hydrofoil Shipyards 69/85 (1 die 10 R) (100% chance)
-[] Naval Point Defense 0/??? 4? dice 40?R (??% chance)
-[] Ablat Plating Deployment (Stage 4) 45/200 (2 dice, 20 R) (37% chance)
-[] Security Review
Bureaucracy 3/3 + 1 Free Die
-[] Military Review (2 dice)
-[] Light Industry Review (2 dice)
In theory yes, in practice maybe not so much. Remember we are holding the parts of the Red Zones we are pushing back. So it maybe more like we are sandwiching NOD between an advancing juggernaut and a wall of guns and death crystals.🤷♂️
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Are we confident that there will be a Stage 12 for Glacier Mining and that it won't have a high Logistics cost? That last RZ Harvesting expansion sounded rough.
Wondering if we slow up a bit on Glacier chasing, and start on expanding our Processing Facilities. The Processing Facilities are also going to cost Logistics, and with the Integrated Cargo System likely 3 quarters away at best, we should ensure we can afford the Logistics cost of the Processing Facilities with existing Logistics projects.
(And if we aren't trying to rush two stages of Glacier Mining, we can be chill about whether the Civilian Shipyards complete or not.)
My other concern is the Shimmer Shield Development. We have a lot of stuff to roll out already.
While Shimmer Shields will potentially reduce the consumption of
What the actual? Is this the first time NOD has rolled out non-human macroscale bioweapons?
What's the range of that plasma weapon? Comparable or superior to our railguns? Is it Scrin-derived? Do we cover our ships in Ablat?
Of course, NOD would figure out how to stuff one of those onto a battleship! Looks like we are going to need those laser satellites eventually.
Perhaps the world ended long ago, the aesthetic is right for it.
Shimmershield is more likely than not a tech development. Meaning it won't have outright deployment necessary. It'll probably make relevant projects more expensive due to being added into them. But it's highly unlikely to have its own Deployment project.