Remove ads

Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

Reader mode
MSH said:
An issue I see with particle weapons is that we currently have trouble powering them. Nod gets around this by liquid tib cells, making everyone Big Mad. We can use microfusion cells for them, but we haven't even started that business yet.

Without the secondary tech, I find the primary one questionable. We can power them at the vehicular level, but how well? It risks being a well designed, cutting edge, utterly fragile tech that falters in the wild conditions of war without either tib in a can or sun in a can.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Eh, we developed the tech. If the military wants to custom build a few to power their prototype systems, that's probably part of the budget already. Besides, worst case, it gets mounted to a Mastodon in place of the disco ball (and maybe the VLS cells). Or it becomes a base defense system. EDIT: Also, the Titan Mk 3 was designed with modular hardpoints to potentially mount particle weaponry as its main battery rather than railgun or laser weaponry in that slot.

The important part is to continue developing the tech so we can improve on it. After all, it's entirely possible that the phase plasma munition option for particle weapons won't become available if we don't do this one.

--

As for Shala, man, am I happy we went for Spaceport Bay. That hopefully will push out the issue with shuffling the food around a bit via better orbital traffic control, though the bottleneck might actually be "how many docking points for cargo are there and how fast can they be cycled?" Perhaps the space-based fusion (and later g-drive) ships also help push out the issue some since they don't need heat shielding or transatmospheric capability and thus can have a larger cargo load.
 
Last edited:
Phht said:
Perhaps the space-based fusion (and later g-drive) ships also help push out the issue some since they don't need heat shielding or transatmospheric capability and thus can have a larger cargo load.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
cargo transfer rates are going to be more important for determining how fast Shala can unload food, even if the cargo ships are too small for maximum time efficiency Shala can just load food into vacuum sealed crates and push them out the cargo bay for ships to pick up
 
Transporting nonliving cargo from microgravity to microgravity should be an imminently solvable problem. The enviornment is tougher but almost every other logistical issue is easier.
 
The current particle beam project is just the tech.

Who knows what will come from it. Especially since our ion beams are included in the particle weapons category.

And just because we research the tech doesn't mean we need to deploy it right away. It just reveals what we could do.

I want to research all the tech projects to make sure there are no really neat projects just hidden behind a 1 dice tech project for ages.
 
MSH said:
Transporting nonliving cargo from microgravity to microgravity should be an imminently solvable problem. The enviornment is tougher but almost every other logistical issue is easier.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The trick is that most of those other issues are solved problems, but "funneling all the agricultural produce on a station capable of feeding millions through a specific singular docking facility" may not be. I can imagine a screwup whereby Shala's physical capacity for throughput is exceeded before it hits peak capacity to farm given the near-optimal conditions (controlled environment, near-constant intense sunlight, genetically modified crops, etc).
 
How do people feel about doing the NextGen Armored Support Vehicle next turn? I want to rollout at least one new platform sooner rather than later, and of the various platform development project we're planning to do, it's the less likely to incorporate the new tech we're going to develop or produce in the near-future. Plus it'll complement the GF-ZA Phases, and their use in the Karachi Offense.
 
Model DC.14F said:
How do people feel about doing the NextGen Armored Support Vehicle next turn? I want to rollout at least one new platform sooner rather than later, and of the various platform development project we're planning to do, it's the less likely to incorporate the new tech we're going to develop or produce in the near-future. Plus it'll complement the GF-ZA Phases, and their use in the Karachi Offense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I suggested it myself, for more or less the reasons you list, but to temper your expectations... I don't think we'll be able to roll out significant numbers of the new IFV/APC design in time for Karachi. Though it might show up in the general "hold the line" phases afterwards.
 
This is a very tentative draft program, and is based on setting aside one die per turn for whatever Talons project seems best, leaving us with six Military dice now and five when we create the Department of Refits.

The main intent here is to just illustrate the limits of what we can and cannot expect to accomplish in the time available. If anyone's unhappy to see their favorite project missed here, well, you'll have to cut dice from something else. Ground Force Zone Armor in particular is likely to cost at least 13-14 dice, and that's a sizeable chunk of all the dice we have left to work with. We also don't have a clear idea of how much the Governor-A rollout will cost, because the scale of the project is uncertain. Doruma seems to be estimating about five dice. I'd be very pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be less than 2-3.

2064Q1
AA die Orca Wingmen
1 die Particle Beam Development
1 die Next Generation Armored Support Vehicles
2 dice Stealth Disruptor Deployment
1 die Island-Class Assault Ship Deployment
1 die Inferno Gel Development

2064Q2
2 dice Governor-A Deployment
4 dice Ground Forces Zone Armor (or other ground)

2064Q3
2 dice Governor-A Deployment (or divert to SSN)
2 die Orbital Nuclear Caches/other space
2 dice MARV hubs (plus Tiberium dice)

2064Q4
1 die Governor-A Deployment or SSN project
1 die (Space Force project)
4 dice Zrbite Weapons

2065Q1
1 die Navy/Space
1 dice Next Generation Armored Fighting Vehicles
1 die Novahawk Development
3 dice Zrbite Weapons

2065Q2
1 die Department of Refits (down to 5 dice/turn)
1 die Navy/Space
4 dice Ground Forces Zone Armor (or other ground)

2065Q3
1 die Navy/Space
4 dice Ground Forces Zone Armor (or other ground)

2065Q4
1 die Navy/Space
4 dice GFZA or Initiative Laser Systems Deployment

So basically, about the best we can do if we aren't very minimalist about funding for space and the Navy is to finish the current ongoing projects, do some development, and get ZOCOM's full zrbite gun rollout alongside the zone armor. Another major project like Initiative Laser Systems Deployment or Electronic Countermeasures Improvements would necessarily come at the expense of the zrbite guns, or would require significant Free dice investment.

Also note that I only found Military dice for MARVs on a single turn. Doing more would require Free dice or sacrificing another project. Also note that doing MARV work around the timeframe of 2064Q4 to 2065Q2 may be contraindicated, because Karachi will be competing with the MARV deployment for Tiberium dice.
 
Last edited:
Simon_Jester said:
Given how incredibly expensive portal dice are, it's a big sacrifice to take two of them when one has a 40% or so chance of completing the project.

Now, we do actually have the money to throw around if we really want to, but it's a big sacrifice. Personally, I don't expect a two-dice portal plan to win this upcoming turn vote.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You can't buy back lost time.
Simon_Jester said:
As I recall, going from HG to IHG converts us from one unit of STU per 100 RpT of resources to one STU per 90 RpT- it may be less favorable than that, but I'm trying to be optimistic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Bolded:
Ithillid said:
Tiberium‌ ‌Processing‌ ‌Capacity‌ ‌(2790/3800)‌ ‌(1440 HG, 1350 IHG)(HG: 1 per 95, IHG: 1 per 85)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Derpmind said:
You can't buy back lost time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's valid.

It's a big monetary sacrifice. My prediction, and I use that word very intentionally, is that a plan with two portal dice will not do as well in the vote as an otherwise identical plan with one portal die.

However, we do in fact have the money to afford to do this; I've costed out pretty viable plans that don't deliberately avoid spending money and they still come out with big surpluses.

Bolded:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ah. Apologies; I'd misremembered. However, that doesn't change the final result, looking at the numbers. It just means that the surplus STU output generated by refitting the remaining first generation Hewlett-Gardener refineries is more likely to be in the range {1.5 < X < 2} and thus hopefully rounded to two.
 
Last edited:
Simon_Jester said:
Personally, I think we have a variety of projects that are higher priority than Secure Yellow Zones, such as Forgotten Research.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm assuming that it will take time to get the Yellow Zones Secured enough to get at the Red Zone Border Offensives locked behind completing that action so I want it done sooner rather than later so we can have Red Zone Border Offensives in the next plan as an income option.

Simon_Jester said:
I strongly suspect that rush-building two species restoration bays in parallel will not get us better results than working a bit more gradually. Among other things, we've repeatedly seen that rush-building any one thing in space tends to result in doubtful quality
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We are not rush-building. Each bay only gets 3 Dice spent on it. They are each a project of their own independent of other stations/station bays we build.

Simon_Jester said:
Given how incredibly expensive portal dice are, it's a big sacrifice to take two of them when one has a 40% or so chance of completing the project.

Now, we do actually have the money to throw around if we really want to, but it's a big sacrifice. Personally, I don't expect a two-dice portal plan to win this upcoming turn vote.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Why not? We have the money and we have the need for Portal tech to develop more. My own plan still leaves us more than 50 R in reserve while feeding InOps 120 RpT.
 
All I know is that for the next plan needs to have Predictive Modeling. We need to reduce the chances of Nat 1s showing up as much as possible.

The Nat 1 on the power plants making it require labor is proof enough that its needed.
 
ReaderJohn said:
All I know is that for the next plan needs to have Predictive Modeling. We need to reduce the chances of Nat 1s showing up as much as possible.

The Nat 1 on the power plants making it require labor is proof enough that its needed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
On the power plants? Am I misremembering, or was that on the refinery refit project we're probably not going to do for a while now? Or was this something that happened a long time ago?
 
Derpmind said:
Is this information fromt the Discord?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
IHG processing plants (both new and refits) costing labor going forward as a result of the critical failure? Heavily implied in Q4's result post, confirmed in discord.

New Visitor Refining plants costing labor? Pure speculation on my part. But considering that the fluff was that there was insufficient numbers of specialized people for our current generation, and that next generation is even more technologically advanced, I think it's reasonable to believe it will hold.

The vein mines permanently lost one abatement per new phase, after all. So there is precedent.
 
Last edited:
Model DC.14F said:
How do people feel about doing the NextGen Armored Support Vehicle next turn? I want to rollout at least one new platform sooner rather than later, and of the various platform development project we're planning to do, it's the less likely to incorporate the new tech we're going to develop or produce in the near-future. Plus it'll complement the GF-ZA Phases, and their use in the Karachi Offense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There is no way they will be ready in time for the Karachi Offensive.
I'd prefer to hold off until we have dice for deployment as well.
Our promise is only to develop them and they still don't have a Priority tag. This makes me pretty sure that they are in the Want bucket, not the Need bucket at the moment.
The military appears to disapprove of us locking in designs a few years before we start delivering them.
By delaying them, we allow advances in repulsor plates, shielding tech, microfusion and armor alloys a better chance to mature and get included in the design.


Does anyone have any thoughts about whether Secure Yellow Zones might increase our population? I've got no real feel for whether there might be any other non-GDI/Nod settlements left.
 
The Green Zones created by Secure Yellow Zones are stated to be largely from Red Zone clearances, so likely there's very little gain.

Major labor gains will have to come from founding new planned cities, or from getting Nod warlords to defect wholesale. Outside of that, there just aren't enough people left. Our best bet is to focus on relative gains from automation and consolidation.
 
Simon_Jester said:
It's probably at least worth doing the basic tech development project before next generation AFVs, as opposed to support vehicles. That'll give the designers at least some chance to integrate them into the designs.

The development project itself is something I think we can slip in.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I want to do the development soon-ish, no question. Plus it seems like we need to do this project to unlock the 98 gacha version. Just looking at something of a long road ahead for this. It'll be worth it, but it'll cost. And I'd really want to do the Binary Propellant Exploration. It's not as sexy, but I really believe that when combined with Inferno Gel and Advanced Rocket Fuels we could push GDI's chemicals science a good chunk forward, and that could unlock lots of good projects.

Having said that, I'm really pushing for those Microfusion Cell Laboratories. They're going to be a need if we want to miniaturize any of these weapons. Plus we know they'll help with space stuff.
Model DC.14F said:
How do people feel about doing the NextGen Armored Support Vehicle next turn? I want to rollout at least one new platform sooner rather than later, and of the various platform development project we're planning to do, it's the less likely to incorporate the new tech we're going to develop or produce in the near-future. Plus it'll complement the GF-ZA Phases, and their use in the Karachi Offense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Heavily against. It's going to be fighting with Zone Armor and Zerbite and Lasers and MARVs, plus a dozen other small projects. It'll never get done.
 
Uncontested Yellow Zone, that is uncontested because it was Red Zone.

"There are a number of Yellow Zones around the world with little to no Brotherhood presence, mostly in large pockets in the Red Zones created by GDI efforts to mine Red Zone Tiberium."

Seems unambiguous to me.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top