Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

Simon_Jester · Oct 13, 2022

bigking321 said:
Looks great.

Have we heard if alloys affect orbital or not? It will definitely matter when determining whether to proceed with alloys or not.

No idea. I'm specifically planning to not know.

With that said, it may matter less than one thinks. I'm not sure we're actually better off spending three Free dice per turn to get the alloy foundries done faster so we can get the space stations done faster, or three Free dice per turn to get the space stations done faster by working on them harder. I know some analyses have been done, but I'm very much torn on the matter myself.

Is kudzu close enough to finishing that it will auto complete? I don't think I've ever heard the requirements for that.

Don't know. I am fairly sure that it will not auto-complete, but if I turn out to be wrong, I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Would you want to do the next phase of wingmen in the plan after this? Then switch to laser refits so the new ships have them?

I would not want to do Phase 2 of the Orca wingman production immediately, because all I really want right now is a limited release so we can have them in, specifically, the forces that would normally be highest priority. Such as carrier aviation and the CAS units assigned to the Karachi operation.

After completing Orca Wingman Drones Phase 1, the next high priority I would have (apart from Talons projects) would be the naval laser refits, since we can get those aboard at least some ships in time for Karachi if we move briskly. Past that, my interests shift to some blend of SADN, space defense projects, the Seattle frigate yard, and general efforts to fulfill Plan commitments.

(EDIT: To be clear, this is all taking for granted a healthy ongoing commitment to provide dice for Talons projects and to work on Ground Force Zone Armor up through the end of Set 1. Other projects may also be worked in around the edges.)

Lightwhispers said:
From what I remember, we are somewhat short on sugar, but sugar beets are a think, and do provide a lot of what we get.

Absolutely.

But my point was never that "GDI has no sugar." It is that aquaponics bays used to grow sugar beets (or anything else) for pure sugar output are by definition not being used to produce more calorie-efficient and nutritious staple crops, of which there are many.

So when GDI is collectively at, say, +10 Food, there is probably more of a sugar shortage than when there is +25 Food. And if we had a large +Food surplus once again, we might (conceivably) see projects for "convert bulk food production into yummies production," potentially including "grow more sugar beets."

Also, as far as Q3 spending goes, I will point out that 4 dice on GF Zone Armor factories will have at least a 21% chance of finishing Set 1... which I would consider something very nice to get done by Q4. Because while I do want to do wingmen drones and naval stuff, those are incremental improvements, while Zone Armor is transformative.
Also, I want to do the Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development next turn, since that should help with abatement.

I am not averse to swapping out the Rifle Deployment die with the Zrbite Development option.

I want to do a balance between different projects. Zone Armor is potentially transformative, but affects only the Ground Forces, who already have a very solid combat paradigm that is working very well.

The "naval stuff" affects a branch of the armed forces which has been fighting at a serious disadvantage for many years, and its effects may be more transformative than we would think. For instance, truly good naval laser point defense may effectively nullify Nod's air and missile-based defenses against naval attack, creating vulnerabilities that simply did not exist before because we're in a position to strike targets that were previously too well defended.

I am happy with the idea of, say, two dice on Ground Force Zone Armor in 2060Q3 and three in 2060Q4 in an attempt to round out the set, but honestly, we are nearing the deadline for the wingman drones to have noticeable effect before Karachi, and this is very specifically a weapon system we insisted on designing our light carriers for, at considerable opportunity cost, before the Regency War even began. It would be perverse to delay any longer, if you ask me.

Shadows · Oct 13, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
I want to do a balance between different projects. Zone Armor is potentially transformative, but affects only the Ground Forces, who already have a very solid combat paradigm that is working very well.

Every branch has Zone Armor. Notably, the OSRCT. The Navy also wants it. I'm pretty sure these factories supply everyone.

Simon_Jester said:
Snippity snip

Side note: we only have 4 service dice now.

FaxModem1 · Oct 13, 2022

So, we have how many zone armor factories now? Just how much of a backlog is going on here? Is their entire production capacity taken up by producing the spare parts we already make for the Zone Armor suits we already have, and that's why we need even more factories?

Void Stalker · Oct 13, 2022

Oleg-14191 said:
Got it.

Maybe AA dice to finish Kudzu? If reviews are not critical.

Security reviews help save resources for other projects though which helps.

Simon_Jester said:
-[] Orbital

Not a fan of skipping gravitic shipyard since it is going to take time and experience to figure out how to use ships with that sort of engine and we have the constant worry about the Scrin around jupiter.

Nottheunmaker · Oct 13, 2022

Main problem I have with Simons plan is a lack of Zerbite Weapons Development. The Deep Red is a fucking death pit, and we need to keep pushing into it for lots of reasons. The sooner dev is done, the sooner deployment can happen, the better our odds are during round two. Any plan that doesn't do Zerbite doesn't get my vote.

Phht · Oct 13, 2022

FaxModem1 said:
So, we have how many zone armor factories now? Just how much of a backlog is going on here? Is their entire production capacity taken up by producing the spare parts we already make for the Zone Armor suits we already have, and that's why we need even more factories?

Well, ZOCOM has their own factories - enough to supply 2 Corps of Zone forces, IIRC (possibly they also handle the Navy's needs? Or maybe Navy has their own factory or three?). Now, Ground Forces wants to ZA up at least part of its forces due to how we're pressing closer and closer to Red Zones (and also due to things like Gana becoming more common), and these factories we're working on now are for them. Part of the bottleneck we're having is how badly RZs eat Zone Armor, part is because GF wants one level of training, but ZOCOM supplied trainers want to teach the full curriculum that they learned (which takes a good bit longer). As a result, GF units in Zone Armor are getting out into the field slower than GF wants, and supplies are a bit low in some spots due to recent RZ operations eating inventory (somewhat literally...).

It's possible in later Sets that we get branch specialized ZA for naval/amphib or space use, but currently the "Ground Forces" in the title is pretty clear where the suits are going currently. It's possible that since OSRCT fights on the ground, they "technically" count as GF for Zone Armor requisitioning. Or again, maybe they're leeching off ZOCOM/Navy factories.

--

Regarding Zrbite dev vs GD-3 deploy, I think I'll just go on GD-3 deploy. It'll take time for roll out to happen once the factories are built, and if we at least want troops in Karachi to have them in case of Gana, deploying them sooner rather than later is important. And given we didn't get Zrbite dev'd this turn, there's a chance they won't really have time to start showing up in useful amounts by the time RZ ops are open again, so save the dice for other projects.

--

I think I'll try another Plan this go round. Have to work on it, but I'll be focusing on setting up Chicago Phase 5 to be completed the following turn, finishing AgriMech, and 2 dice on GFZA. Since Orbital Cleanup was completed, I'll keep 9 dice on Orbital, though whether it's 7 on Columbia/Shala, 2 on something else, or if I split some extra dice off to start grav yard and Conestoga dev, I dunno yet. Anything else will just see how things fit into the budget (more Alloy Foundries is not a priority for me currently). Also might try for a MARV hub at RZ-1S. The key idea here is getting it done so we can get the RZ-1 inhibitor going, which might help RZ operations in Europe (where we had the pass eat a battalion of ZOCOM).

MrRageQuit · Oct 13, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
[] 2062Q3 Draft Plan Attempting to Alloy The Wingmen

For the most part, I think it's good, but I have a few thoughts here and there:

Light Industry
We don't need the Nanotubes right now, we have a horde of Capital Goods. Since the costs are the same, move those dice over to Reykjavik.

Tiberium
Swap Green Zone Harvesting to Tiberium Processing Refits. I admit this is more of my preference to not leaving a job unfinished, and not leaping to any improved HG refitting when we still haven't even completed the first round.

Military
Swap the Buckler Shield to Unmanned Support Ground, it's the same price, also on the goals list, but it only requires 20 less progress to complete. Just a suggestion, I have no real issue with the current setup otherwise.

BOTcommander · Oct 13, 2022

To the food discussion I can only add some sad excerpt from Q1 2061

You gotta be some kind of crazy to want to work here! Long hours, bad quarters, hard work-work so hard you just wanna fall into your bunk and sleep most days, and you'd better get used to sounds and motion! There's always some noise coming in through the hull. "There is no sound in space" Bullshit there isn't! You can hear goddamn everything-the extruders, the smelters, the welding crews, worksuits and shuttles docking and undocking, the whole nine yards. Only time I ever get any quiet is when I'm buttoned up for my shift, and even then there's always the suit making noise.
So why do I work here? Two reasons: because I believe in the work, and I eat like a king! Join the orbital construction corps for two eggs, two slices of turkey bacon, and a slice of pie every day!

Jabulani Anders, Worker on the Enterprise.

It might be a little exaggerated and at least partly a joke, but I believe there is enough truth in certain food items we take for granted being rare enough that people being more open to spacework because of the rations offered is a real thing.

Lightwhispers · Oct 13, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
I am happy with the idea of, say, two dice on Ground Force Zone Armor in 2060Q3 and three in 2060Q4 in an attempt to round out the set, but honestly, we are nearing the deadline for the wingman drones to have noticeable effect before Karachi, and this is very specifically a weapon system we insisted on designing our light carriers for, at considerable opportunity cost, before the Regency War even began. It would be perverse to delay any longer, if you ask me.

First, I do not believe that we need wingman drones to be able to do an invasion of Karachi for relatively minimal cost. You have expressed your disagreement with that, and we agreed to disagree, so bringing up Karachi again is not going to make me consider your argument favorably.
Second, as one of the people who was arguing "bote, now", your argument comes across as trying to hold hostage what I consider more useful to something I didn't particularly want to include in the first place.
Third, the Escort Carriers will be effective (if a bit less so) without the wingman drones - they are not essential, even though they will be quite useful. While, having fully-formed and trained units fully equipped with Zone Armor is likely to be an actual need to deal with massed Gana.

FaxModem1 said:
So, we have how many zone armor factories now? Just how much of a backlog is going on here? Is their entire production capacity taken up by producing the spare parts we already make for the Zone Armor suits we already have, and that's why we need even more factories?

We just finished #3 of the 6 factories in Set 1 of the Ground Forces Zone Armor program. ZOCOM has their own factories, which are sufficient for their needs - Set 1 of GFZA will provide (when fully spun up) enough suits for the "tip of the spear" of Ground forces. By set 5 or so, we would be providing suits for the Home Guard and other rear-area security units.

Oh, and finally:

Simon_Jester said:
-[] Orbital (7 + 7 Free dice, +33 bonus, 290 R)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 2+3) 50/410 (6 dice, 120 R) (99.6% chance)
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 4) 138/555 (7 dice, 140 R) (99.9% chance)
--[] Conestogas (1 die, 30 R)

SPAAAAACE!

(I approve of this, for clarity.)

tenchifew · Oct 13, 2022

Derpmind said:
So? Are we supposed to simultaneously praise our good progress so far while demanding that more needs to be done? I resent the implication that just because some of us think we haven't done enough, that somehow means we've forgotten the projects we've completed so far.

GDI has good food, sure, but what I have in my pantry right now is more food diversity than a GDI citizen has seen since before the 3rd war, never mind what I could get from a generic supermarket. Can GDI feed everyone? Yes. Is the food of good quality? Also yes. Does GDI have food diversity? No. We seriously don't. Heck, we still have zero dairy, and might not get around to it for another year if we focus too much on bulk foods and gene-engineered crops.

Void Stalker said:
Because alot of it comes off as if we have made no progress at all. If more of it was couched as we have made progress but there is still work to be done there would be less push back but I see too many posts as if we have done 0 consumer good foods.

Very much what Void Stalker said.
I am sorry to say it, but people who do not acknowledge that there was a real and consistent progress and effort invested in improving food availability and diversity begin to sound borderline deceptive to me.

And yes, I very much acknowledge that we have to improve the food situation further, and am all for more meat, dairy and vertical farms, but when I again and again see posts implying that current GDI citizens sit on bland diets of potatoes and soy while not seeing any animal proteins, patently not true since we do have an abundance of fish and varied fruits and vegetables available, I am just getting annoyed.

doruma1920 · Oct 13, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 Dice + 3 Free dice + EREWHON!, +33 bonus, 290 R)

...

[] Services (5/5 Dice, +31 bonus, 60 R)

Shadows said:
Side note: we only have 4 service dice now.

This. We moved a die from Services to HI last turn.

And since we are discussing Plans again:

[] Draft Plan: Did Someone Order A Columbia With A Side Of Shala?
-[] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, 90 R)
--[] Communal Blue Zone Arcologies 328/400 (1 die, 15 R) (80% chance)
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 22/250 (3 dice, 75 R) (82% chance)
--[] Security Review (1 die)
-[] Heavy Industry (6/6 Dice + 2 Free Dice + Erewhon, 290 R)
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 2) (6 dice, 240 R) (67% chance)
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 195/300 (1 die, 10 R) (47% chance)
--[] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development 0/120 (1+E die, 40 R) (75% chance)
-[] Light Industry (5/5 Dice, 90 R)
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 50/1280 (1 die, 20 R) (1/17 median)
--[] Carbon Nanotube Foundry Expansions 0/300 (3 dice, 60 R) (11% chance)
--[] Artificial Wood Furniture Plants (New) 0/100 (1 die, 10 R) (72% chance)
-[] Agriculture (6/6 Dice, 85 R)
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/250 (2 dice, 30 R) (12% chance)
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 430/450 (1 die, 10 R) (100% chance)
--[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 1) 0/170 (3 dice, 45 R) (95% chance Phase 1, 5% Phase 2)
-[] Tiberium (7/7 Dice, 130 R)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 4) 65/185? (5 dice, 100 R) (Stage 4, 99%? Stage 5, 32%? Stage 6)
--[] Improved Hewlett Gardener Process Refits ?? (1 die, 30? R) (?? Chance)
--[] Security Review (1 die)
-[] Orbital (7/7 Dice + 3 Free Dice, 200 R)
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 4) 138/555 (8 dice, 160 R) (Phase 4, 8/17 median Phase 5)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 2) 50/135 (2 dice, 40 R) (Phase 2, 2/4 median Phase 3)
-[] Services (4/4 Dice, 60 R)
--[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Deployment (Services) 0/200 (3 dice, 60 R) (88% chance) (1 die locked)
-[] Military (8/8 Dice + 2 Free Die, 190 R)
--[] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development 0/60 (1 die, 20 R) (91% chance)
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 0/275 (4 dice, 80 R) (85% chance)
--[] GD-3 Deployment ??? (2 dice, 20? R) (?? chance)
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 4) 155/180 (2 dice, 40 R) (Phase 4, 26% Phase 5)
--[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 0/80 (1 die, 30 R) (66% chance)
-[] Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice)
--[] Infrastructure Security Review (1 die) (91% chance)
--[] Tiberium Review (2 dice) (100% chance)
--[] Interdepartmental Favors
---[] Steel Talons: Deploy Medium Tactical Plasma Weapons by the end of 2062: +5 Political Support
---[] Space Force: Build Fusion and G-drive bays on Enterprise before the Elections. +5 Political Support
---[] Air Force: Deploy all Orca Wingman Drones before the end of this plan: +5 Political Support
1135/1135 R Budget (1110 Income + 25 Reserve)
7/7 Free dice
1/1 Erewhon die

Projected Budget Q3 (Average): 1110 (Current) + 30 (Vein Mines 4) + 30 * 32% (Vein Mines 5) = 1149.6 on average
Energy Budget (Worst Case): 35 (Current) - 1 (Communal Arcologies) - 4 (Personal EVs) - 1 (Agri Mech) - 3 (AEVA) - 3 (Orca Drones) - 1 (GD-3) - 4 (GFZA) = 19
Capital Goods Budget (Worst Case): 20 (Current) + 2 (DIA) - 2 (Personal EVs) - 1 (Agri Mech) - 4 (Vein Mines) - 4 (AEVA) - 1 (Orca Drones) - 2 (GFZA) = 8

Infrastructure: Goal being to finish the Communal Arcologies and reinforce our Logistics via the Shuttles.

Heavy Industry: Developing ICCF, continuing to trickle in dice for PEVs, and continue the roll out of the Alloy Foundries.

Light and Chemical Industry: Continue Rollout of Artificial Wood, rollout CN Foundries for Cap Goods, and start last phase of Reykjavik

Agriculture: Rolling out Agri Mech, finishing Kudzu, and starting the Roll out of Spider Cotton to supplement our Cap Goods, option here to switch with poulticeplants / Vert farms, I'd wait for Agri Mech or a couple of phases of Vert Farms before rolling out the Dairy Farms.

Tiberium: Continue the roll out of Vein Mines, and start rolling out the IHG process to improve STU output, also security review.

Orbtial: Continue Columbia rollout and minor investment in Shala sufficient to complete Phase 2.

Services: Service AEVA.

Military: Focus on Orca Wingmen rollout, Zrbite development, deploying the recently developed GD-3, and continuing the GFZA rollout. The goal being to have as many Orca Wingmen ready in time for Karachi as possible. Zrbite to improve ZOCOM for more RZ ops. GD-3 for better guns. Medium Plasma is to get the free 5 PS from Interdepartmental Favors, and better guns.

Bureaucracy: Completing Security Reviews for Infrastructure and Tiberium as they are the next up, I would like to do the Grant rollout as it is one of our Plan Goals and I'd like it to provide benefits over the latter half of the Plan. However For Interdepartmental Favors deploying the Medium Plasma is for PS. For the bays, we are likely to finish Columbia in the next two, maybe three turns, and we can certainly divert the 10 dice needed to fully complete Enterprise over the next 6 turns. It will also allow us to start building that black water fleet needed to defend against the Visitors and the sooner that is pumping out ships the better. For the Orcas we want those asap anyway to get the most bang for our buck out of the escort carriers we spent so much on last Plan.

Vehrec · Oct 13, 2022

Oh what the heck, I'll thow up the thing I made too.
-[] Communal Blue Zone Arcologies (New) 328/400 1 die 15R 80%
-[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 22/250 2 dice 50R 18%
-[] Urban Metros (Phase 4) 0/150 2 dice 30R 81%

-[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 2) 116/600 1 die 40R
-[] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development 0/120 1 die+E die 40R 79%
-[] Low Velocity Particle Applicator Development 0/120 1 die 20R 34%
-[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 175/300 2 dice 20R 91%
-[] Microfusion Cell Development 0/60 1 die 20R 94%

-[] Carbon Nanotube Foundry Expansions 0/300 4 dice 80R 56%
-[] Artificial Wood Furniture Plants (New) 33/100 1 die 10R 72%

-[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/250 3 dice 45R 70%
-[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 1) 0/200 2 dice 40R 26%
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 430/450 1 die 10R 100%

-[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 4+5+6+7?) 65/710 7 dice 140R 44% (99% for Stage 6)

-[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 4) (Updated) 138/555 6 dice 120R 97%
-[] GDSS Shala (Phase 2+3) (Updated) 50/410 5 dice 100R 93%
-[] Gravitic Shipyard 0/450 2 dice 60R
-[] Conestoga Class Development 0/60 1 die 30R 94%

-[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 213/300 2 dice 50R 99%
-[] Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories 79/250 2 dice 40R 57%

-[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 0/275 4 dice 80R 85%
-[] Hammerhead Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 0/200 3 dice 60R 87%
-[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 0/80 1 die 30R 66%

-[] Transfer Funding to InOps (New) 1 die -60 RpT auto
-[] Expand Grant Programs (New) 1 die -10 RpT auto
-[] Interdepartmental Favors (Updated) 1 die auto
(I expect there to be new or different favors next turn, so I won't commit to any of them for now.)
So this is a plan defined by not doing a lot in terms of alien alloys! Yes, I plan on doing all or most of them, but for now I'd rather make some other numbers go up and we have other needful things to do. But first:

INFRASTRUCTURE. I just want to get good odds on several projects here, while also working of Suborbital Shuttles to get that second phase out of the way. I thought about making this a Chicago-Plan, but decided against it because we do need more logistics.

Heavy Industry is kind of scattershot and mostly research. But it's useful research-fusion, particle beam lithography, Elerium-boosted fusion, and two dice on cars because one isn't enough to realistically finish the project. One die on U-alloys could be sent to particle beams instead if we want to save cash instead of making steady, slow progress. Next turn though, probably 200 R/5 dice on U-alloys.

Light industry is much less scattershot, but also much less sure. We need to get eyes on home robotics and other projects before I can commit to anything absolutely here, but 4 dice on bulk nanotubes helps shore us up against expenditures further down the list. And we move to probably finish wood. Overall I call this better than bad-It's good!

Agriculture gets its Is dotted and Ts crossed. More food, more tea, and a slight bit of dairy progress. We have plan goals, lets work towards them here. I have R to spare because I'm not alloyed, so I can spend a bit more than others might.

Tiberium! I'm obviously not short on cash, but other plans are, so lets do something about that with a full-court press on Vein Mines. Try and open up 90-120 extra R/turn here. It's simple, it's easy, I'm doing it because we need the money (800 income left by the end of the plan, and -60 to someone soon.)

Orbital is my focus, my pole-star. I want to see what our bays are like before I make a final decision, but i do intend for this section to absorb every single free die in a mad dash for Phase 4 Columbia, Phase 2+3 Shala and...well, the other stuff is a bit murky. So I budgeted high and went for G-drive stuff. I might also go for a housing bay on Columbia, or a medical bay or some kind of orbital park or zoo. But 14 dice and 310 resources, yeah those are budget numbers I and the space-crazed among us long to see on Orbital.

That leaves Services, which I am still rich in resources to fool around with. So let's do a lot for health-care, both hospital construction and R&D.

Military's where I rip off my mask and show you the true face of madness-out of 8 military dice, I ignore ground forces totally and indulge in 7 on the air force to get some progress rolling on our remaining drone wingmen in two projects. Nothing else deserves to be called a wingman plan unless it does some shit like this. With abundant remaining resources, I throw the last die onto a large particle gun to shoot NOD walkers in the groin with, because I find that hilaarious. Are there cheaper/faster things? Yes, but most of those are ground forces, and those guys are overfed with dice and projects, so lets love someone else for now. Next turn, maybe space or the navy gets the big dice infusion.

Phht · Oct 13, 2022

So, draft plan.

BUDGET: 1135 R
Free Dice: 7/7 + E + 2 AA

1060/1135 R

[] Draft Plan Chicago by 2063
-[] Infrastructure (5/5 + 2, 120 R)
--[] Communal Blue Zone Arcologies 328/400 (1D, 15 R) (80%)
--[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 5) 52/1100 (6D, 120R) (7/12 median)
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 + E, 100 R)
--[] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development 0/120 (1D + E, 40 R) (75%)
--[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 5) (1D, 20R)
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 175/300 (2D, 20R) (>50%)
--[] Microfusion Cell Development 0/60 (1D, 20R) (94%)
-[] Light Industry (5/5, 100 R)
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 50/1280 (5D, 100 R) (5/16.5 median)
-[] Agriculture (6/6, 95 R)
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/250 (3D, 45 R) (70%)
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 430/450 (1D, 10 R) (100%)
--[] 2D on Vert Farms or Poulticeplants. Reserving 40R based on Spider cotton.
-[] Tiberium (7/7 + 1, 155 R)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 4+5) 65/365? (4D, 80 R) (88% Stage 5)
--[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 5) 6/100 (1D, 20R) (60%)
--[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 8) 4/100 (1D, 15R) (58%)
--[] Reclamator Hub (RZ-1S) 0/335 (2D, 40R)
-[] Orbital (7/7 + 4, 230 R)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 2+3) 50/410 (5D, 100 R) (93.4%)
--[] Gravitic Shipyard 0/450 (5D, 100R) (55%)
--[] Conestoga Class Development 0/60 (1D, 30R) (94%)
-[] Services (4/4, 60 R)
--[] -1 die for AEVAtime
--[] AEVA Deployment (Services) 0/200 (3 dice, 60 R) (88%)
-[] Military (8/8 + 2 AA, 200 R)
--[] Reclamator Hub (RZ-1S) 0/335 (2 AA, 40R) (24%)
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 0/275 (4 dice, 80 R) (85% chance)
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 4+5) 155/360 (2 dice, 40 R) (25% Phase 5)
--[] GD-3 Rifle Deployment (???) 0/??? (1D, predicting 10R) (???)
--[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 0/80 (1D, 30R) (66%)
-[] Bureaucracy (4/4)
--[] Administrative Assistance (Military) (2D)
--[] Administrative Assistance (Military) (2D)

So, Infrastructure is dominated by Chicago, as should be obvious by the plan name. This should put us in a position for 1 HI, 4-5 Infra at most next turn finishes Chicago barring bad rolls either turn.

HI gets ICCF dev and hopefully PEV Plants finished. I pulled from the last array, so I forgot the numbers changed (anyone on what 2D for PEV Plants is?). Might have a HI die to move, which means the microfusion cell dev might change. That one was mostly because I was short a HI die for full activation. And naturally, a HI die on Chicago. With going for a 2-turn Chicago, I'm not worried about pushing CapGoods out with Nanotubes, so full send on Raykjavik in LCI. We just might to be careful on CapGood spending at Christmas.

Agriculture, I'm aiming for kudzu and AgriMech completion. Remaining 2D will go either to Vert Farms (so 2D, 60R), or Poulticeplants (2D, 80R?). Given AgriMech completion aimed for, I'm leaning towards Poulticeplants.

Tiberium: Two stages of Vein mines in order to keep RpT going up (particularly given we're passing InOps some next turn), GZ Harvesting, seeing if we can't complete the last set of refits (particularly in case the Improved H-G set requires that version to be complete), and then working on RZ-1S MARV hub in order to get the RZ-1 Inhibitor available.

Orbital: Shala gets enough dice it should clear Phase 3, and the Grav yard + Conestoga dev have decent chances to complete. I'm not going to worry about Columbia bays this turn.

Services: Due to my plan for funding the MARV hub, ~~all security reviews are skipped (compared to Simon's draft plan), so I needed something for a die outside of AEVA. Regional Hospital Expansions look to give good return for 1D, so there it goes.~~ Services only gets the Advanced EVA work.

Military: This one is gonna be fun. I used two AA dice to fund the MARV hub. I went with this because the probability array provided 2 AA, 2 Tib as an option with 24% chance. If it doesn't complete, one more die should probably do it. Other than that, I largely agreed with Simon's mil spending, so Orca drones and GD-3 beyond the 2D for GFZA. I decided to go with the Plasma Weapon Deployment instead because it had a 66% chance and adds combat capability to the Talons quicker. Buckler Shield dev would be next turn. If I had a free die, I might've put it on Zrbite dev, but needs elsewhere....

And 50R wiggle room to work with!

Edit: I copied Simon's Draft plan for layout... turns out I also copied his accidental 5 dice in Services. Sorry Hospitals, but we no longer have a die for you.

Simon_Jester · Oct 13, 2022

Shadows said:
Every branch has Zone Armor. Notably, the OSRCT. The Navy also wants it. I'm pretty sure these factories supply everyone.

The impact on the Navy is going to be small compared to the impact on Ground Force, until the Navy gets that "jump into the sea and walk up onto the land" power armor option for amphibious assaults. Which will probably require a separate protracted design effort, even if the resulting suit can be manufactured in the same factories (it probably can).

Likewise, OSRCT has a fairly fixed and limited number of suits that they need, small compared to the size of Ground Force's demands, so either they'll be trivially supplied out of the Set 1 plants or building more than the Set 1 plants won't help them.

Side note: we only have 4 service dice now.

Whoopsie-daisy. Well, the simplest modification I can make to the draft plans (which may not be the best, mind you) would be to cancel the Services security review for this turn and double up the Bureaucracy dice on one of the other security reviews. Other options include AA dice on something attractive for that purpose.

FaxModem1 said:
So, we have how many zone armor factories now? Just how much of a backlog is going on here? Is their entire production capacity taken up by producing the spare parts we already make for the Zone Armor suits we already have, and that's why we need even more factories?

I believe we have three working zone armor factories as of the end of 2062Q2, with certainty of finishing the fourth in Q3 if we invest even one die, though getting the fifth will probably require at least two more dice after that.

The old ZOCOM-only factories are fully occupied producing armor for ZOCOM; this is probably in part because ZOCOM doesn't just need "spare parts" for existing armor, they go through whole changes of the armor. Because whenever someone wearing zone armor faceplants in a tiberium field, they may be fine, but their armor is covered with tiny flecks of tiberium. And those will probably ruin the suit, requiring a replacement of much of the suit's materials. You can try to scavenge the suit for spare parts that weren't infected, but doing so involves handling potentially tiberium-contaminated material with tools, which in turn risks exposing the tools (and the mechanics) to tiberium.

Ground Force (outside the Red Zones) and OSRCT won't burn through Zone Armor nearly as quickly, which means, when you think about it, that they can sustain much larger power-armored forces than ZOCOM does because their suits actually last for months or years of active operations with only normal maintenance, rather than needing a full replacement every X weeks or something.

I'm pretty confident that the three factories we've built recently should be enough to keep supplies of zone armor, specifically, steady despite the border offensives into the Red Zones... but that properly equipping corps-sized formations of assault troops with zone armor as we plan to do will require the full set of Set 1 factories. Because there are just so many more infantry in Ground Force than in ZOCOM, even if individually they don't burn through kit as fast.

Void Stalker said:
Not a fan of skipping gravitic shipyard since it is going to take time and experience to figure out how to use ships with that sort of engine and we have the constant worry about the Scrin around jupiter.

This isn't a proposal to skip the gravitic yards indefinitely. But right now, both stations are in a place where we can throw an arbitrary number of dice at them with no fear of overflow, and to keep on schedule we need to throw those dice sooner or later.

The gravitic yard will, definitionally, not be very useful until we have a ship class to build in it, too.

You'll see me start drafting plans with gravitic yard dice when Columbia gets close enough to Phase 5 completion that just lobbing 7-10 dice at it would be a bad idea that might cause overcompletion. That won't be too much longer.

Nottheunmaker said:
Main problem I have with Simons plan is a lack of Zerbite Weapons Development. The Deep Red is a fucking death pit, and we need to keep pushing into it for lots of reasons. The sooner dev is done, the sooner deployment can happen, the better our odds are during round two. Any plan that doesn't do Zerbite doesn't get my vote.

I'm throwing around a lot of ideas mentally for what might go in that plan- remember that this is a draft proposal. Zrbite sonics are on the list of maybes. Especially for the Spaceship the Wingmen version, which has more wiggle room in the budget, especially if we don't feel committed to doing the InOps budget increase early the way I thought about doing.

MrRageQuit said:
For the most part, I think it's good, but I have a few thoughts here and there:

Light Industry
We don't need the Nanotubes right now, we have a horde of Capital Goods. Since the costs are the same, move those dice over to Reykjavik.

I don't think so. We're actually going to burn through a sizeable chunk of our current Capital Goods surplus in the next 1-2 turns. Thus, finding some supplementary Capital Goods sources here and there actually matters, and the nanotube foundries have the best +Capital Goods per die ratio of any project available (not counting Chicago Phase 5)

Tiberium
Swap Green Zone Harvesting to Tiberium Processing Refits. I admit this is more of my preference to not leaving a job unfinished, and not leaping to any improved HG refitting when we still haven't even completed the first round.

It may make more economic sense to simply refit that handful of old plants (which, I may note, have not been used in years because everything goes to the H-G plants) to the improved H-G standard directly, rather than refitting them now with equipment that is about to become obsolete. It's entirely possible that the "refit to first generation H-G" option currently on the list will disappear entirely and be replaced by a "refit all the plants to second generation H-G" option, which I've already got on the docket.

I could see putting the die now on Green Zone Harvesting on that second-generation refit project, but it depends on what the budget situation looks like. The draft plan is designed so that we can decide to 'splurge' in any of several areas, and more or less mix-and-match which 'splurges' we want. Two dice on the refinery refits would be an example of this.

Military
Swap the Buckler Shield to Unmanned Support Ground, it's the same price, also on the goals list, but it only requires 20 less progress to complete. Just a suggestion, I have no real issue with the current setup otherwise.

I respectfully disagree because I specifically plan to integrate buckler shield technology into other stuff that will be developed later, such as the next-generation Mammoth tank replacement and the Governor-A cruiser design refit. The ground support drones are an important tech, but I'm not feeling the urgency.

That's me, mind you. I don't begrudge anyone else the right to make plans based on their own opinions of what's important.

Lightwhispers said:
First, I do not believe that we need wingman drones to be able to do an invasion of Karachi for relatively minimal cost. You have expressed your disagreement with that, and we agreed to disagree, so bringing up Karachi again is not going to make me consider your argument favorably.

Candidly, there are enough people in this thread that I often forget who thinks what and so usually "play the ball, not the man." If my reasons for doing something are disagreeable to you, I am probably not uttering them just to waste your time, but rather because they are sincerely held and I forgot that we had this conversation three weeks ago.

If you prefer plans that put off wingman drones, perhaps indefinitely or until 2065 at least, fair enough.

Second, as one of the people who was arguing "bote, now", your argument comes across as trying to hold hostage what I consider more useful to something I didn't particularly want to include in the first place.

...I'm a bit confused at this point. If I'd gotten my way, the escort carriers would have been lighter ships not designed to accommodate the wingman drones. They would have been quicker and cheaper to build, we wouldn't have any pressing need to roll out drones just for them at all, and that would be that.

I'm trying to accommodate the reality that we designed a ship class such that a large fraction of its overall "main armament" relies on a weapon system we haven't actually put into mass production yet, and that this ship class is reasonably likely to see some moderately serious combat of some kind in a little over a year's time. There is no attempt to hold hostages here; I'm trying to deal with the legacy costs of past decisions and the predictable need to do certain things in the future.

Third, the Escort Carriers will be effective (if a bit less so) without the wingman drones - they are not essential, even though they will be quite useful. While, having fully-formed and trained units fully equipped with Zone Armor is likely to be an actual need to deal with massed Gana.

Look, it's not a choice between "wingman drones but no zone armor" or "zone armor but no wingman drones." We can have both in a reasonably timely manner. I'm proposing a wingman/GFZA dice distribution of four-and-two this turn and hopefully zero-and-three next turn, which gives us enough dice to finish both the wingman factories and the Set 1 power armor factories within the next two turns.

Maybe you'd be happier with one-and-five followed by zero-and-do-something-else, I don't know. But it'd need to be five dice on GFZA to hit the target of "get all of Set 1 done by 2062Q3," and it sounds like that's the thing you're wanting to see done.

doruma1920 said:
-[] Agriculture (6/6 Dice, 85 R)
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/250 (2 dice, 30 R) (12% chance)
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 430/450 (1 die, 10 R) (100% chance)
--[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 1) 0/170 (3 dice, 45 R) (95% chance Phase 1, 5% Phase 2)

I won't lie, I'm not happy with the idea of having only the caffeinated kudzu as a luxury food option next turn. I don't think spider cotton is urgent enough to justify it. Because while I spend a lot of time bickering with them, I am actually pretty firmly on the side of "team luxury food." We should be doing either Vertical Farming (if we don't have enough Food surplus for Dairy Ranching), or Dairy Ranching (if we do). One or the other.

-[] Orbital (7/7 Dice + 3 Free Dice, 200 R)
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 4) 138/555 (8 dice, 160 R) (Phase 4, 8/17 median Phase 5)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 2) 50/135 (2 dice, 40 R) (Phase 2, 2/4 median Phase 3)

I'm coming around to the idea that we should fund Shala relatively a bit more aggressively than this, seeing as how we won't get our second generation habitat projects (as distinct from Columbia's bays) until Shala is complete. I don't want to have to wait all that long for that goal to be accomplished.

-[] Military (8/8 Dice + 2 Free Die, 190 R)
--[] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development 0/60 (1 die, 20 R) (91% chance)
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 0/275 (4 dice, 80 R) (85% chance)
--[] GD-3 Deployment ??? (2 dice, 20? R) (?? chance)
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 4) 155/180 (2 dice, 40 R) (Phase 4, 26% Phase 5)
--[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 0/80 (1 die, 30 R) (66% chance)
-[] Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice)
--[] Infrastructure Security Review (1 die) (91% chance)
--[] Tiberium Review (2 dice) (100% chance)
--[] Interdepartmental Favors
---[] Steel Talons: Deploy Medium Tactical Plasma Weapons by the end of 2062: +5 Political Support
---[] Space Force: Build Fusion and G-drive bays on Enterprise before the Elections. +5 Political Support
---[] Air Force: Deploy all Orca Wingman Drones before the end of this plan: +5 Political Support

Ahhh, bold. Very bold.

Now, my thoughts. First, you have here a plan that puts Free dice on Military. I'm not going to disrespect it, but my read on the will of the voters is that there won't be a lot of support for it. Go for it if you like; I may craft my own version of the same. Maybe just have three variants, focusing on alloy foundries, space stations, and the military respectively.

My issue here is that I really don't think we need the Political Support enough to be making all those commitments. Making that promise to the Space Force is gonna be a toughie; we can pull it off but it may make things harder when it comes to keeping the space population target on track. I'd be more comfortable promising just the gravitic bay. Deploying the plasma guns is doable, especially if we start working on it now, but I'm not sure we need the Political Support enough to justify it. I'll think it over.

Given that Orbital and Military are to some extent competing for Free dice, I'm particularly hesitant to promise the Space Force two additional 400-500 point projects and promise the Air Force an additional 275-point project at the same time, when we're already anticipating quite large influxes of Political Support from building the stations anyway. Is it necessary for us to make all these commitments just because we can theoretically fulfill them hopefully?

Vehrec said:
-[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 4+5+6+7?) 65/710 7 dice 140R 44% (99% for Stage 6)

One concern here is whether we have a sixth phase of vein mines. Hopefully, we do, or at least if we don't, any surplus vein mine progress will roll over into whatever comes after vein mines. Personally, I'm figuring

You already know the other big issues, the really notable one from my point of view being that I really don't consider the Hammerhead drones a higher priority than Zone Armor, or a more urgent one, so I'm not going to go on about that at any further length.

...

Now, Phht's plan here looks like a pretty solid Chicago-centric plan (I won't be writing one because I think we need to rebuild our Logistics buffer before moving on to Chicago Phase 5, but I respect the desire to have such a plan, and it neatly saves our Capital Goods surplus from shriveling up if we pursue it!

Some thoughts...

Phht said:
-[] Agriculture (6/6, 95 R)
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/250 (3D, 45 R) (70%)
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 430/450 (1D, 10 R) (100%)
--[] 2D on Vert Farms or Poulticeplants. Reserving 40R based on Spider cotton.

Personally, I favor a slow-roll on Agriculture Mechanization, two dice this turn and potentially one next turn. Low chance of success but there's no hurry on the Food so great that we must expend the third die on it.

-[] Tiberium (7/7 + 1, 155 R)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 4+5) 65/365? (4D, 80 R) (88% Stage 5)
--[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 5) 6/100 (1D, 20R) (60%)
--[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 8) 4/100 (1D, 15R) (58%)
--[] Reclamator Hub (RZ-1S) 0/335 (2D, 40R)

My concern here is that if it's even legal to roll 2 AA dice in Military to activate the MARV hub, you're only committing a total of 4d100+76 Progress to the project, at a high cost of 80 R. We might not even get the hub- in fact, we probably won't, with those odds, since the median roll will be 278/335 Progress.

My philosophy on MARV hubs is that since Military dice are in tighter competition than Tiberium dice, we should "go big or go home." Either be ready to roll most of the entire Tiberium category's dice on MARV hubs and plan a blowout completion of two at once or at least of one with massive rollover, or don't bother, because otherwise you expend too many extra Military dice that are badly needed elsewhere.

-[] Services (5/5, 85 R)
--[] -1 die for AEVAtime
--[] AEVA Deployment (Services) 0/200 (3 dice, 60 R) (88%)
--[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 213/300 (1D, 25R) (56%)

As others have pointed out to me, we don't actually have five Service dice.

And my other concern circles back to the issue I already mentioned; I don't think you can fund the MARV hub with two AA dice standing in for the Military dice. And the low return on investment from AA dice punishes you there. If you were going to go ahead with something like that, it'd probably make more sense to put AA dice on the rifle production project, which is probably cheaper, so it's less of a pain in the ass if you find yourself rolling a 3 and getting almost no progress on the project than if the same thing happens to a MARV hub.

I respect your choice of MARV hub placement, too, but if it was me, I'd do RZ-3S first. Because rollover on RZ-3S flows to RZ-3N, and then to RZ-1S... but rollover on RZ-1S flows to one of the Yellow Zone MARV hubs in the western Mediterranean.

Simon_Jester · Oct 13, 2022

Okay, now three draft plans. All share the edit to reflect that there are only four Services dice now. All now default to zrbite sonics research instead of rifle deployment for the last Military die, because I've concluded that one die on the rifles probably won't change anything, while researching zrbite sonics may unlock Tiberium projects that have direct, immediate benefits. May.

Some of the plan drafts have also been fine-tuned in various other ways.

But basically, we have a "Heavy Industry" plan that focuses on slamming out another alloy foundry phase, an "Orbital" plan that puts all Free dice on space development, and a "Military" plan that puts two Free dice on the military to give us more wiggle room there.

BUDGET: 1135 R

1130/1135 R

[] 2062Q3 Draft Plan Attempting to Alloy The Wingmen
-[] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, +36 bonus, 70 R)
--[] Communal Blue Zone Arcologies 328/400 (1 die, 15 R) (80% chance)
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 22/250 (1 die, 25 R) (1/2.5 median)
--[] Urban Metros (Phase 4) 0/150 (2 dice, 30 R) (81% chance)
--[] Security Review
-[] Heavy Industry (6/6 Dice + 2 Free dice + EREWHON!, +33 bonus, 290 R)
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 2) 116/600 (6 dice, 240 R) (67% chance)
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 175/300 (1 die, 10 R) (24% chance)
--[] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development 0/120 (1+E die, 40 R) (75% chance)
-[] Light Industry (5/5 Dice, +23 bonus, 90 R)
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 50/1280 (1 die, 20 R) (1/16.5 median)
--[] Carbon Nanotube Foundry Expansions 0/300 (3 dice, 60 R) (11% chance)
--[] Artificial Wood Furniture Plants (New) 0/100 (1 die, 10 R) (72% chance)
-[] Agriculture (6/6 Dice, +28 bonus, 85 R)
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 430/450 (1 die, 10 R) (100% chance)
--[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 3) 74/240 (3 dice, 45 R) (95% chance)
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/250 (2 dice, 30 R) (12% chance)
-[] Tiberium (7/7 Dice, +38 bonus, 125 R)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 4+5) 65/365? (4 dice, 80 R) (Stage 4, 88% Stage 5)
--[] Intensification of GZ Harvesting (Stage 8) 4/100 (1 die, 15 R) (58% chance)
--[] Improved H-G Processing Refits 0/??? (1 die, budgeting 30 R) (???)
--[] Security Review
-[] Orbital (7 + 5 Free dice, +33 bonus, 230 R)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 2+3) 50/410 (4 dice, 100 R) (Phase 2, 56% chance Phase 3)
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 4) 138/555 (7 dice, 140 R) (99.9% chance) (after the +1)
--[] Conestoga Class Development 0/60 (1 die, 30 R) (94% chance)
-[] Services (4/4 Dice, +31 bonus, 60 R)
--[] -1 die for AEVAtime
--[] AEVA Deployment (Services) 0/200 (3 dice, 60 R) (88% chance)
-[] Military (8/8 Dice, +30 bonus, 160 R)
--[] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development 0/60 1 die 20R 91%
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 0/275 (4 dice, 80 R) (85% chance)
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 4+5) 155/360 (2 dice, 40 R) (Phase 4, 25% Phase 5)
--[] Buckler Shield Development 0/100 (1 die, 20 R) (51% chance)
-[] Bureaucracy (4 Dice, +28 bonus)
--[] Tiberium Security Review (2 dice)
--[] Infrastructure Security Review (1 die)
--[] Interdepartmental Favor:
---[] Air Force: Deploy all Orca Wingman Drones by 2065Q4: +5 PS

The "space" plan now focuses funds more on the civilian economy and puts off giving InOps their 60 RpT until 2062Q4. This frees up funds for medical research and infrastructure construction (instead of the Services AEVA). There was also enough money to reshuffle dice to the point where we can complete a phase of dairy ranches.

BUDGET: 1135 R

1130/1135 R

[] 2062Q3 Draft Plan Attempting to Butter Up The Wingmen in Space
-[] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, +36 bonus, 70 R)
--[] Communal Blue Zone Arcologies 328/400 (1 die, 15 R) (80% chance)
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 22/250 (1 die, 25 R) (1/2.5 median)
--[] Urban Metros (Phase 4) 0/150 (2 dice, 30 R) (81% chance)
--[] Security Review
-[] Heavy Industry (6/6 Dice + EREWHON!, +33 bonus, 190 R)
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 2) 116/600 (3 dice, 120 R) (3/5.75 median)
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 175/300 (1 die, 10 R) (24% chance)
--[] Low Velocity Particle Applicator Development 0/120 (1 die, 20 R) (34% chance)
--[] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development 0/120 (1+E die, 40 R) (75% chance)
-[] Light Industry (5/5 Dice, +23 bonus, 90 R)
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 50/1280 (1 die, 20 R) (1/16.5 median)
--[] Carbon Nanotube Foundry Expansions 0/300 (3 dice, 60 R) (11% chance)
--[] Artificial Wood Furniture Plants (New) 0/100 (1 die, 10 R) (72% chance)
-[] Agriculture (6/6 Dice + AA die, +28 bonus, 115 R)
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 430/450 (AA die, 10 R) (95% chance)
--[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 3) 74/240 (3 dice, 45 R) (95% chance)
--[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 1) 0/200 (3 dice, 60 R) (84% chance)
-[] Tiberium (7/7 Dice, +38 bonus, 125 R)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 4+5) 65/365? (4 dice, 80 R) (Stage 4, 88% Stage 5)
--[] Intensification of GZ Harvesting (Stage 8) 4/100 (1 die, 15 R) (58% chance)
--[] Improved H-G Processing Refits 0/??? (1 die, budgeting 30 R) (???)
--[] Security Review
-[] Orbital (7 + 7 Free dice, +33 bonus, 290 R)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 2+3) 50/410 (6 dice, 120 R) (99.6% chance)
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 4) 138/555 (7 dice, 140 R) (99.9% chance)
--[] Conestogas (1 die, 30 R)
-[] Services (4/4 Dice, +31 bonus, 90 R)
--[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 213/300 (2 dice, 50 R) (99% chance)
--[] Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories 79/250 (2 dice, 40 R) (57% chance)
-[] Military (8/8 Dice, +30 bonus, 160 R)
--[] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development 0/60 1 die 20R 91%
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 0/275 (4 dice, 80 R) (85% chance)
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 4+5) 155/360 (2 dice, 40 R) (Phase 4, 25% Phase 5)
--[] Buckler Shield Development 0/100 (1 die, 20 R) (51% chance)
-[] Bureaucracy (4 Dice, +28 bonus)
--[] Tiberium Security Review (1 die)
--[] Infrastructure Security Review (1 die)
--[] AA Die on Kudzu (2 dice)

And here is a "military" variant of the plan, which puts two Free dice on Military and five on Orbital. This, being the "security" focused plan, goes back to putting the 60 RpT on InOps, because we've been told that will be more effective if done sooner.

BUDGET: 1135 R

1135/1135 R

[] 2062Q3 Draft Plan Attempting to Forearm The Wingmen
-[] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, +36 bonus, 55 R)
--[] Communal Blue Zone Arcologies 328/400 (1 die, 15 R) (80% chance)
--[] Urban Metros (Phase 4) 0/150 (2 dice, 30 R) (81% chance)
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1) 0/200 (1 die, 10 R) (1/2.25 median)
--[] Security Review
-[] Heavy Industry (6/6 Dice + EREWHON!, +33 bonus, 190 R)
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 2) 116/600 (3 dice, 120 R) (3/5.75 median)
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 175/300 (1 die, 10 R) (24% chance)
--[] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development 0/120 (1+E die, 40 R) (75% chance)
--[] Low Velocity Particle Applicator Development 0/120 (1 die, 20 R) (34% chance)
-[] Light Industry (5/5 Dice, +23 bonus, 90 R)
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 50/1280 (1 die, 20 R) (1/16.5 median)
--[] Carbon Nanotube Foundry Expansions 0/300 (3 dice, 60 R) (11% chance)
--[] Artificial Wood Furniture Plants (New) 0/100 (1 die, 10 R) (72% chance)
-[] Agriculture (6/6 Dice, +28 bonus, 95 R)
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 430/450 (1 die, 10 R) (100% chance)
--[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 3) 74/240 (3 dice, 45 R) (95% chance)
--[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 1) 0/200 (2 dice, 40 R) (26% chance)
-[] Tiberium (7/7 Dice, +38 bonus, 125 R)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 4+5) 65/365? (4 dice, 80 R) (Stage 4, 88% Stage 5)
--[] Intensification of GZ Harvesting (Stage 8) 4/100 (1 die, 15 R) (58% chance)
--[] Improved H-G Processing Refits 0/??? (1 die, budgeting 30 R) (???)
--[] Security Review
-[] Orbital (7 + 5 Free dice, +33 bonus, 250 R)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 2+3) 50/410 (4 dice, 100 R) (Phase 2, 56% chance Phase 3)
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 4) 138/555 (7 dice, 140 R) (99.9% chance)
--[] Conestogas (1 die, 30 R)
-[] Services (4/4 Dice, +31 bonus, 60 R)
--[] -1 die for AEVAtime
--[] AEVA Deployment (Services) 0/200 (3 dice, 60 R) (88% chance)
-[] Military (8/8 Dice + 2 Free dice, +30 bonus, 210 R)
--[] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development 0/60 1 die 20R 91%
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 0/275 (4 dice, 80 R) (85% chance)
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 4+5) 155/360 (4 dice, 80 R) (Phase 4, 99.1% Phase 5, 21% Phase 6)
--[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 0/80 (1 die, 30 R) (66% chance)
-[] Bureaucracy (4 Dice, +28 bonus, 60 R)
--[] Tiberium Security Review (1 die)
--[] Infrastructure Security Review (1 die)
--[] Transfer Funding to InOps (New) (1 die) (-60 RpT)
--[] Interdepartmental Favor:
---[] Air Force: Deploy all Orca Wingman Drones by 2065Q4: +5 PS
---[] Steel Talons: Deploy Medium Tactical Plasma Weapons by the end of 2062: +5 PS

This significantly more heavily funds the military's priorities, while still being okay on space and alloys, even if not great. And there's still some dairy. Notably, it has heavy dice on both the Orca wingmen and the GFZA project, with a chance of outright completing Set 1 entirely. @Lightwhispers , you might might might like this one a little better, though since I got the Free dice out of Heavy Industry or Orbital (depending on your perspective) it may not be good in your opinion, dunno.

F0lkL0re · Oct 13, 2022

Since we're all making plan drafts again here are two from me with the only difference being that the second one does Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes in order to raise Seo's SCIENCE!!! meter.

I'm considering dropping orcas down a die to work on Zrbite weapons.

[] Plan In Need Of A Witty Name
-[]Infrastructure 5/5 135R
-[] Communal Blue Zone Arcologies 1 die 15R %
(progress 328/400: 15 resources per die, +6 High Quality Housing, +2 Consumer Goods, +1 Energy Reserve, -1 Energy)
-[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) 3 dice + 2 free dice + 1 Heavy Industry die 120R 0%
(Can spend mixed Heavy Industry and Infrastructure dice, at least 1 die must be Heavy Industry)
(Progress 52/1100: 20 resources per die) (+5 Housing, -4 Labor), (+500 Tiberium Processing Capacity, +10 Consumer Goods, +12 Capital Goods)
-[] Security Review 1 die
-[]Heavy Industry 6/6 100R
-[] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development 2 dice 40R 96%
(Progress 0/120: 20 resources per die)
-[] Low Velocity Particle Applicator Development 1 die + 1 Erewhon die 40R 79%
(Progress 0/120: 20 resources per die)
-[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 2 dice 20R %
(Progress 175/300: 10 resources per die) (-2 Labor, -4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, +8 Consumer goods, +4 Logistics) (+10 Political Support)
-[] Chicago Planned City 1 die
-[]Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 90R
-[] Carbon Nanotube Foundry Expansions 4 dice 80R %
(Progress 0/300: 20 resources per die) (+4 Capital Goods)
-[] Artificial Wood Furniture Plants 1 die 10R %
(Progress 33/100: 10 resources per die) (+4 Consumer Goods)
-[]Agriculture 6/6 100R
-[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 3 dice 45R %
(Progress 26/250: 15 resources per die) (+12 Food, -1 Energy, -1 Capital Goods)
-[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 3) 3 dice 45R %
(Progress 74/240: 15 resources per die) (+4 Food, +4 Consumer goods, -2 Energy)
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 1 admin die 10R %
(Progress 430/450: 10 resources per die) (+8 Consumer Goods) (+1 to all dice)
-[]Tiberium 7/7 140R
-[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2) 4 dice 80R %
(Progress 65/195: 20 resources per die) (Additional Income Trickle [20-35]) (+1 Yellow Zone Abatement) (-1 Capital Goods)
-[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment
--[] Blue Zone 1 1 die 30R %
(Progress 0/100: 30 resources per die) (-3 Energy) (+2 Yellow Zone Abatement) (1 Political Support)
--[] Blue Zone 2 1 die 30R %
(Progress 0/100: 30 resources per die) (-3 Energy) (+2 Yellow Zone Abatement) (1 Political Support)
-[] Security Review 1 die
-[]Orbital 7/7 250R
-[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 4) 7 dice 120R %
(Progress 138/555: 20 resources per die) (1k Permanent residents) (+2 available Bays) (9 Political Support)
-[] GDSS Shala (Phase 2) 2 free dice 40R %
(Progress 50/135: 20 resources per die) (.1k permanent residents) (+1 Food) (5 Political Support)
-[] GDSS Enterprise Bays (2 available)
--[] Gravitic Shipyard 3 free dice 90R %
(Progress 0/450: 30 resources per die) (-2 STU, -1 Capital Goods)
-[]Services 4/4 85R
-[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 1 die 25R %
(Progress 213/300: 25 resources per die) (+4 Health) (-1 Energy, -1 Capital Goods, -1 Labor)
-[] Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories 3 dice 60R %
(Progress 79/250: 20 resources per die) (-2 Labor, -2 Energy)
-[]Military 8/8 170R
-[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 5 dice 100R %
(Progress 0/275: 20 resources per die) (-1 Labor, -3 Energy, -1 Capital Goods)
-[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 4) 2 dice 40R %
(Progress 155/180: 20 resources per die)(-2 Labor, -2 Energy, -1 Capital Goods)
-[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 1 die 30R %
(Progress 0/80: 30 resources per die)
-[]Bureaucracy 4/4
-[] Administrative Assistance (Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations) 2 dice
(Spend 2 Bureaucracy dice for 1 operations die, that die is rolled without bonuses)
-[] Security Reviews (Infrastructure) 1 die + 1 Infrastructure die 94%
(DC 50 + 1 operations die)
-[] Security Reviews (Tiberium) 1 die + 1 Tiberium die 94%
(DC 50 + 1 operations die)
-[]Free Dice 7/7
-[] 2 in Infrastructure
-[] 5 in Orbital
-[]Resources Income 1070/1110 Reserve 0/25 Bank 100

[] Plan With A Little Mad Science Included
-[]Infrastructure 5/5 135R
-[] Communal Blue Zone Arcologies 1 die 15R %
(progress 328/400: 15 resources per die, +6 High Quality Housing, +2 Consumer Goods, +1 Energy Reserve, -1 Energy)
-[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) 3 dice + 2 free dice + 1 Heavy Industry die 120R 0%
(Can spend mixed Heavy Industry and Infrastructure dice, at least 1 die must be Heavy Industry)
(Progress 52/1100: 20 resources per die) (+5 Housing, -4 Labor), (+500 Tiberium Processing Capacity, +10 Consumer Goods, +12 Capital Goods)
-[] Security Review 1 die
-[]Heavy Industry 6/6 100R
-[] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development 2 dice 40R 96%
(Progress 0/120: 20 resources per die)
-[] Low Velocity Particle Applicator Development 1 die + 1 Erewhon die 40R 79%
(Progress 0/120: 20 resources per die)
-[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 2 dice 20R %
(Progress 175/300: 10 resources per die) (-2 Labor, -4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, +8 Consumer goods, +4 Logistics) (+10 Political Support)
-[] Chicago Planned City 1 die
-[]Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 90R
-[] Carbon Nanotube Foundry Expansions 4 dice 80R %
(Progress 0/300: 20 resources per die) (+4 Capital Goods)
-[] Artificial Wood Furniture Plants 1 die 10R %
(Progress 33/100: 10 resources per die) (+4 Consumer Goods)
-[]Agriculture 6/6 100R
-[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 3 dice 45R %
(Progress 26/250: 15 resources per die) (+12 Food, -1 Energy, -1 Capital Goods)
-[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 3) 3 dice 45R %
(Progress 74/240: 15 resources per die) (+4 Food, +4 Consumer goods, -2 Energy)
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 1 admin die 10R %
(Progress 430/450: 10 resources per die) (+8 Consumer Goods) (+1 to all dice)
-[]Tiberium 7/7 120R
-[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2) 4 dice 80R %
(Progress 65/195: 20 resources per die) (Additional Income Trickle [20-35]) (+1 Yellow Zone Abatement) (-1 Capital Goods)
-[] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes (Platform) 2 dice 40R 70%
(Progress 0/180: 20 resources per die) (-5 Political Support per die) (MS)
-[] Security Review 1 die
-[]Orbital 7/7 250R
-[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 4) 7 dice 120R %
(Progress 138/555: 20 resources per die) (1k Permanent residents) (+2 available Bays) (9 Political Support)
-[] GDSS Shala (Phase 2) 2 free dice 40R %
(Progress 50/135: 20 resources per die) (.1k permanent residents) (+1 Food) (5 Political Support)
-[] GDSS Enterprise Bays (2 available)
--[] Gravitic Shipyard 3 free dice 90R %
(Progress 0/450: 30 resources per die) (-2 STU, -1 Capital Goods)
-[]Services 4/4 85R
-[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 1 die 25R %
(Progress 213/300: 25 resources per die) (+4 Health) (-1 Energy, -1 Capital Goods, -1 Labor)
-[] Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories 3 dice 60R %
(Progress 79/250: 20 resources per die) (-2 Labor, -2 Energy)
-[]Military 8/8 170R
-[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 5 dice 100R %
(Progress 0/275: 20 resources per die) (-1 Labor, -3 Energy, -1 Capital Goods)
-[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 4) 2 dice 40R %
(Progress 155/180: 20 resources per die)(-2 Labor, -2 Energy, -1 Capital Goods)
-[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 1 die 30R %
(Progress 0/80: 30 resources per die)
-[]Bureaucracy 4/4
-[] Administrative Assistance (Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations) 2 dice
(Spend 2 Bureaucracy dice for 1 operations die, that die is rolled without bonuses)
-[] Security Reviews (Infrastructure) 1 die + 1 Infrastructure die 94%
(DC 50 + 1 operations die)
-[] Security Reviews (Tiberium) 1 die + 1 Tiberium die 94%
(DC 50 + 1 operations die)
-[]Free Dice 7/7
-[] 2 in Infrastructure
-[] 5 in Orbital
-[]Resources Income 1050/1110 Reserve 0/25 Bank 100

Phht · Oct 13, 2022

Personally, I don't consider sub-50% chances as likely to complete, so 3D on AgriMech makes me content on its completion and that we're waiting 1 turn less on finding out what we might unlock from AgriMech completion.

Simon_Jester said:
As others have pointed out to me, we don't actually have five Service dice.

That was literally a case of me taking a draft plan of yours to be the layout base for my draft plan, and didn't remember the Services dice shift while also not clicking about the pointing out of Service dice issue on your plan. Poor Hospitals got the ax to fix the problem.

Simon_Jester said:
My concern here is that if it's even legal to roll 2 AA dice in Military to activate the MARV hub

I pulled it from the probability array at the end of Q2 2062. If it wasn't legal, I'm pretty sure Ithillid wouldn't have left it there all this time. That being said, if I ditched trying to complete the last round of refits, that dice could be added to the MARV hub. 2 AA + 3 Tib gives 76% completion. ...Oddly, the 1 Mil + 1 AA + 3 Tib option only gives 42%, which seems wrong for something that gives 30 + (3*38) points before rolls vs (3*38) points before rolls. Are the Alt option % correct on the current array? But yeah, if the values are off on the array (which it seems like it ought to be?) then swapping GD-3 die for AA die as well would be a better plan.

Are we sure the overflow heads west rather than east? Or is it a case of nearest hub once a pair is done? If it's the latter, Benghazi (RZ-1S) is closer to Port Said (RZ-3S) than either YZ hub on the Med. If it's the former, can we write in for overflow to head to RZ-3S? (If not, RZ-8S is getting a hub, because Operation MULBERRY.)

StarJaunter · Oct 13, 2022

Oleg-14191 said:
Salt water fish…honestly not sure, there's a lot of Tib in oceans. We did some clean up, but not sure if it was enough.

I think the Ranching dome mentioned it would do work on restoring Salmon production? So we might get something to do Salmon eventually?

Lightwhispers said:
From what I remember, we are somewhat short on sugar, but sugar beets are a think, and do provide a lot of what we get.

We need to mad science up some GMO sugar cane that grow in aquaponics. Or sugar Kudzu?

Simon_Jester · Oct 13, 2022

I mean, there's nothing wrong with getting our sugar from beets, really. The byproducts are useful (for instance, as cattle feed, which heeey, wait a minute!

).

On the other hand, since we grow crops in very artificial environments, there's also no reason not to produce a super high efficiency plant that produces insane amounts of sucrose very quickly in automated facilities that are kept at, like, 40 degrees Celsius, high humidity, and a partial pressure of CO2 about double what you find in the outside atmosphere, if it'd be economical to do so.

F0lkL0re said:
-[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment
--[] Blue Zone 1 1 die 30R %
--[] Blue Zone 2 1 die 30R %

I might want to put some thought into which inhibitors we do, because there may be good reasons to do some rather than others. More on that later, probably.

-[]Military 8/8 170R
-[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 5 dice 100R %
(Progress 0/275: 20 resources per die) (-1 Labor, -3 Energy, -1 Capital Goods)
-[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 4) 2 dice 40R %
(Progress 155/180: 20 resources per die)(-2 Labor, -2 Energy, -1 Capital Goods)

Even I think five dice on the wingman drones is excessive. Four gives us an excellent chance of completing the phase. And I'm pretty sure a four-and-three arrangement would do more good for the military on net.

Phht said:
Personally, I don't consider sub-50% chances as likely to complete, so 3D on AgriMech makes me content on its completion and that we're waiting 1 turn less on finding out what we might unlock from AgriMech completion.

The thing is, whatever might unlock from that (if anything)... we don't need it, we're not burning up for it, there's no obvious popular demand. And if it involves further automation it'll consume more Capital Goods and I'm not sure we can even afford that.

Basically, when there's no real hurry to complete a project and there's at least a 10% chance or so of success, I figure that we might as well use the lower number of dice and see if we get lucky. It lets us do more projects in the long run, and lets us redirect dice to give other projects (say, ones with rollover, like Dairy Ranches and Vertical Farming) more dice.

That was literally a case of me taking a draft plan of yours to be the layout base for my draft plan, and didn't remember the Services dice shift while also not clicking about the pointing out of Service dice issue on your plan. Poor Hospitals got the ax to fix the problem.

Yeah, sorry. I hope you don't mean I was yelling at you.

Are we sure the overflow heads west rather than east? Or is it a case of nearest hub once a pair is done? If it's the latter, Benghazi (RZ-1S) is closer to Port Said (RZ-3S) than either YZ hub on the Med. If it's the former, can we write in for overflow to head to RZ-3S? (If not, RZ-8S is getting a hub, because Operation MULBERRY.)

It's straightforwardly "whichever is nearest." And, hm.

Okay, this is a case where the analysis has changed, I think. I am pretty sure we looked at this rigorously and it was true, but that may be before the RZ-3S location was moved from Damascus(?) to Port Said.

Lemme math... Um. I think Benghazi to Damascus is 1520 km, Benghazi to Port Said is 1160 km, Benghazi to Algiers is 1645 km.

...Shit, I'm just confused. Okay, I stand corrected. Yeah, better to start with RZ-1S, and overflow to the RZ-3 hubs, then.

Lightwhispers · Oct 13, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
Maybe you'd be happier with one-and-five followed by zero-and-do-something-else, I don't know. But it'd need to be five dice on GFZA to hit the target of "get all of Set 1 done by 2062Q3," and it sounds like that's the thing you're wanting to see done.

I thought I was pretty clear - I want to do 4 dice on GZFA, so that we can spend at most 1-2 dice on Phase 6 Q4, and have Set 1 complete by year's end. Partially because I want to solve the arguments between Ground Forces and Zocom by giving both more than they need. And partially because the way we keep treating Zone Armor feels similar to how we kept putting off the Navy projects.

I really think that the continual mention and focus on Karachi is damaging our military investment strategy.

Simon_Jester · Oct 13, 2022

Lightwhispers said:
I thought I was pretty clear - I want to do 4 dice on GZFA, so that we can spend at most 1-2 dice on Phase 6 Q4, and have Set 1 complete by year's end. Partially because I want to solve the arguments between Ground Forces and Zocom by giving both more than they need. And partially because the way we keep treating Zone Armor feels similar to how we kept putting off the Navy projects.

I really think that the continual mention and focus on Karachi is damaging our military investment strategy.

Well, yes. I only mentioned you because I'd heard you, and because I was speaking in the context of a plan that does, in point of fact, puts four dice on GZFA.

It may do other stuff that you aren't very interested in and don't think is as important as it's cracked up to be, sure. But it does have the Zone Armor, and all the inane stuff it does? That's for mandatory Plan targets that'll have to get done anyway.

So that's what I was getting at.

Phht · Oct 13, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
The thing is, whatever might unlock from that (if anything)... we don't need it, we're not burning up for it, there's no obvious popular demand. And if it involves further automation it'll consume more Capital Goods and I'm not sure we can even afford that.

If that's the case re: CapGoods... why did we hire the person whose entire thing is more automaton, and why are we looking to build another Adv EVA? ...Actually, why am I building an AEVA? If I ditch that, I save 4 CapGoods. That thing can be built after Chicago's done. Though, hm. 4 dice. 2D on Hospitals, 2D on Kamisuwa? That might be overkill on the labs. 3D Hospitals, 1D Kamisuwa?

As for the part re:dice, we'll just leave that at personal preferences.

It's straightforwardly "whichever is nearest." And, hm.

Okay, this is a case where the analysis has changed, I think. I am pretty sure we looked at this rigorously and it was true, but that may be before the RZ-3S location was moved from Damascus(?) to Port Said.

Lemme math... Um. I think Benghazi to Damascus is 1520 km, Benghazi to Port Said is 1160 km, Benghazi to Algiers is 1645 km.

...Shit, I'm just confused. Okay, I stand corrected. Yeah, better to start with RZ-1S, and overflow to the RZ-3 hubs, then.

To be fair, RZ-1S also used to be Tripoli, which put it pretty close to the YZ hubs. The relocations moved RZ-3S from Damascus to Port Said but also moved RZ-1S from Tripoli to Benghazi.

But okay, to nearest sends overflow to RZ-3S ...or RZ-3N (no, RZ-3N is ~100km further out than RZ-3S). Either way, not to the west Med currently.

MrRageQuit · Oct 13, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
I might want to put some thought into which inhibitors we do, because there may be good reasons to do some rather than others. More on that later, probably.

Probably because they'll help build the pressure on those Warlords whose domains it'll be pressing on. Question is, do we want to focus on the weaker ones like Gideon (Eastern US), or Krukov (Russia), or the tougher ones?

Hazard · Oct 13, 2022

Void Stalker said:
We have had chicken and eggs but the quantity needs to be increased from what I can tell on the blurbs (which vertical farming phases do) more so since we have had a major pop influx. Seafood has had a lot more in terms of consumer goods and we are probably solid there.

Simon_Jester said:
Also, chicken and eggs should not be rare middle-class experiences. We should do better than that, which is one reason I support the Vertical Farming project. Also, raising more egg-laying chickens is faster than raising milk cows, so there's less of a spool-up time.

I strongly disagree with the notion that we must offer certain foodstuffs just because there is a demand for them. Your arguments are very much sounding like saying that we absolutely should be making sure that everybody can buy as much lobster as they want even though it has become a relatively expensive and exclusive item in the modern era, because historically, it was a poor man's food. (And it actually was).

Look, I'm not against increasing the production of animal protein. But saying 'we absolutely should produce as much meat as possible because meat is not something that should be a thing only for the wealthy' is kinda missing the point that a good part of our job is making sure people have enough to eat in the first place, not making sure that people have the tastiest food while starving to death. People have animal protein sources, although we mostly use fish for that. Beyond that, we have a large supply of vegetable protein sources and fungi protein sources that will frankly do quite well when it comes to feeding people, and the half a kilogram of meat that some players may expect as part of their daily food intake is just unrealistic in a world that is post apocalyptic while also in the midst of an ongoing apocalypse. I would strongly suspect that people have been short on animal products since the 2010s, given the way tiberium ravaged the world between C&C1 and Tiberian Sun.

That all aside, should we expand our animal protein production?

Well, yes. Partially because people are demanding more animal proteins and other animal derived products. But mostly because we just need more food production in the first place, and converting some of that production capacity to foodstuffs that are not as efficient but more preferred is not inherently bad so long as we have the spare capacity for it.

Simon_Jester said:
No, sugar is also an issue. And you may say "good riddance," but there's a pretty wide variety of cultural foods that include it, along with many things we'd think should be available on a routine level. A big part of this is about people being able to eat what they want to eat, not just what GDI experts think is healthy and worth growing for them.

Simon_Jester said:
Absolutely.

But my point was never that "GDI has no sugar." It is that aquaponics bays used to grow sugar beets (or anything else) for pure sugar output are by definition not being used to produce more calorie-efficient and nutritious staple crops, of which there are many.

So when GDI is collectively at, say, +10 Food, there is probably more of a sugar shortage than when there is +25 Food. And if we had a large +Food surplus once again, we might (conceivably) see projects for "convert bulk food production into yummies production," potentially including "grow more sugar beets."

Okay, first, we do have 'convert bulk food to preferential, lower efficiency food types' style projects. They're called Diary Ranches, for example.

Second, sugarbeets are actually pretty efficient, calorie wise, relative to other sources of carbohydrates. According to this article from gardeningplaces.com it is actually the most efficient per hectare staple crop in raw calories, so I suspect that when it comes to sugar, we've got way more than we need. And what's left after processing for sugar can easily be used for animal feed.

Third, if we are converting a Food indicator point, we are permanently losing the food production capacity we dedicate to something until circumstances change. We could, for example, try and reclaim the Food indicator we lost to the state breweries if we need more food for people. It just means taking a hit in ConGoods and political support.

Dmol8 · Oct 14, 2022

doruma1920 said:
--[] Interdepartmental Favors
---[] Steel Talons: Deploy Medium Tactical Plasma Weapons by the end of 2062: +5 Political Support
---[] Space Force: Build Fusion and G-drive bays on Enterprise before the Elections. +5 Political Support
---[] Air Force: Deploy all Orca Wingman Drones before the end of this plan: +5 Political Support

And what are you going to spend all that PS on?

Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods

Altman be praised

Officially not an Inquisitor

The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web