- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
We cannot squeeze two turns worth of dice into Q4.
And there are still good Tib projects to do while we have resources.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
And there are still good Tib projects to do while we have resources.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
That's ambitious, and I wouldn't be opposed to say, not doing Ion power at all and putting all its dice on Liquid Tiberium power. But I am completely opposed to taking any dice off Viseroid Studies. I do not want to pass up this chance to do this project, not while we have 17 Political Support that will disappear if it doesn't get used. I'd almost say put three dice on that. Yeah it's overkill, but a couple bad rolls means it doesn't complete and we lose the Political Support anyway. I'd hate that so very, very much.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
We can certainly do both. We just don't know how much PS it will actually cost.
The second phase of Tib Power might be another -5 PS. Or it might be 0 PS, or -10 PS. Maybe everyone's eyes will glaze over at too much Tib tech going on and just shrug it off.
Going into Reallocation with as low as 87 PS isn't a disaster though. And that would be worst case scenario.
The second phase of Tib Power might be another -5 PS. Or it might be 0 PS, or -10 PS. Maybe everyone's eyes will glaze over at too much Tib tech going on and just shrug it off.
Going into Reallocation with as low as 87 PS isn't a disaster though. And that would be worst case scenario.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
I like the idea of doing both, I just really want Viseroid Studies to complete.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I blame Kane being an evil alien.
The next draft will probably have it.
We just don't need that much power that badly. If that changes, well, we don't need many dice to do more of it.
I see the argument behind ion power being "go big or go home," though for the life of me I don't understand why the phases are so big. We could outfit every Red Zone operation on an entire continent and it'd probably only count as 150-200 Progress on this scale, so the granularity just seems a bit... extreme.
With that said, I'd be more likely to divert the surviving ion power dice into something else.
Visceroid research stays, because we're intentionally doing it right now to soak up surplus Political Support at an opportune moment.
Seven Tiberium dice. Seven Free dice allocated to Tiberium category. Two consecutive turns. That's 28 Tiberium dice, rolled at a +39 bonus, for a mean Progress result of 89.5.
28 times 89.5 is 2506 Progress. Easily enough for ten stages of vein mines, or for that matter twelve stages.
Optimistically, if we predict that Harvesting Claws gives us +5 RpT per vein mine, and noting that Tendrils has increased the maximum value by +5... Well, the mean RpT output of a vein mine now is 27.5 RpT, and if I'm right then in 2062Q1 it'll be 32.5 RpT.
Which means ten stages is, of course, 325 RpT of income, and twelve is 390 RpT... on average. It'll be close to that, but not exact. And hopefully by 2062Q3, we'll be able to do Red Zone operations again for another surge from glacier mining.
The trick, of course, is that we need 280 RpT for two turns to fund the vein mines alone, and we really want at least a few hundred RpT of other income because we've got so goddamn much to do. Which is part of why I'm so opposed to just doing every single 'bureau' action we can find. Right now those actions aren't hurting us, because our budget is so big that we can easily pay 20 RpT or whatever every turn. But each of those income bleeds is going to mean dice left fallow in a turn or two.
1) Why do you think Derpmind had us take Tendrils Phase 2? Because she was trying to accomplish more or less that.
2) We'd still need to spend Political Support (rather inefficiently) to actually get those subdepartment budgets off our backs. That's the hard part here, you see.
3) Because doing 5-6 phases of vein mines cost the same 5-6 points of Capital Goods no matter when you do it, and we only have enough Capital Goods to sustain 2-3 turns of that scale of mining before our reserves run too low to keep going. This is a panic button we're mashing, and if we mash it early, we're going to be stuck on a cramped budget in the next Plan.
To be precise, the problem is that solid tiberium is gradually working its way deeper into the crust. Large deposits of solid tiberium form liquid tiberium as a byproduct. When liquid tiberium experiences extreme enough temperatures, it goes very kaboom.
The death clock the Earth is on right now is "how long will it be before enough large masses of tiberium form, deep enough down, that liquid tiberium starts coming into contact with lava on a regular basis?"
The closest we're likely to get to that is something called "tiberium boreholes" that Ithillid's talked about. But it's not out of the question.
With that said, we're more likely to learn more about liquid tiberium from researching visceroids and more Scrin tech than we are to learn it from building power plants. You don't base a power plant on poorly understood technology; you base it on well understood stuff that you know works.
Everything we know about liquid tiberium power plants, we learned from Nod, and if Nod knew how to stop liquid tiberium explosions from destroying the Earth, they'd probably already be doing it.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I do. SCEDQuest has not yet finished the Gdrive optimization which could add an extra 0.5g acceleration to future Gdrive vessels. There are also some other developments that could come up until then depending on when the hover chassis factory gets done.
- Location
- The Underdark
That is one of the techs that pulled the trigger for the Gov-As
So, they will increase in capability, but only with technology. And the technologies are going to be pretty rare.
I can only follow the quest, discussion in particular, intermittently, but what happened to MARV refits and Tib Inhibitor development? Am I forgetting us doing the former? And the latter was an incredibly popular topic when we first got them but seems to have just gone up in smoke completely now.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Simon, disruptors and ECCM are explicitly tagged (tech), not (platform). Yes, they will come with deployment projects, but their benefit compounds just from having done the research, and their benefit is not constrained to just a deployment - that's what that tag means. Putting it off because we think it might be expensive to deploy it is a mistake, especially now that Kane is becoming more active and drone-centric warfare is in our future. We need that cooking ASAP, and even the cost of deployment issue is purely speculative - we've had these forever, and been punished harshly for sleeping on them once already. Just knock them out, please.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Huh. Well then.
I'll bear that in mind and re-evaluate my options in another draft.
The MARV refit has not yet gotten done. The consensus is that the MARVs, while an aging platform, are still an adequate platform (Nod cannot easily defeat them, and they still harvest tiberium just fine). Furthermore, novel technologies (harvesting tendrils, hover technology, shield generators, MRASP) that might cause us to want to redesign the MARVs are still coming out, so it might be premature for us to finalize the design. We don't even really have an option to redesign the MARV; they're still chugging along the same way they have been since we did the initial redesign back around 2051-52.
We literally just this turn built a second tiberium inhibitor to cover the North American Red Zone, like the one we had covering the South American Red Zone. The main obstacles we've encountered to inhibitor construction so far is that we're required to build out all the MARV hubs in a Red or Yellow Zone before we can build the corresponding inhibitor, and MARV hubs are very intensive investments that require the investment of scarce Military dice. Blue Zone inhibitors can be built at any time, but are Energy-hungry, so so far we have not done that because we're struggling to supply ourselves with enough Energy to build all the other stuff we need anyway.
So far, our tiberium mitigation strategy relies mainly on harvesting operations, with inhibitors still being a relatively lesser role. That may change in the future if we find some much more efficient source of energy.
All right, but in that case they're contending against all the other expensive (tech) options we don't have as much time to research as we'd like. I've already got two dice on a (tech) thing (Sparkle Shields) and there's not a lot of wiggle room beyond that before I'm cutting into Plan goals in Military.
If you want a plan that puts all our Free dice on Military again so we can fund a slate of advanced military research projects, I'm not going to say no, but after passing a fourteen-die Military plan last time, I have my own limits in that regard.
"We've been punished harshly for sleeping on them once already..." could you clarify, please? The only example of that I can remember is when we first developed the anti-stealth sensors and did the Phase 1 rollout but delayed the Phase 2 rollout, which is precisely the kind of thing I'd been hoping to avoid.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Okay, some minor tweaks to the draft. @BOTcommander informs me that SCED is likely to roll out some cool stuff that would improve the Conestogas in the next couple of years, making me more willing to procrastinate the design while they tinker with their gravitic drive tech in hopes of getting better acceleration out of it. That leaves me with an unallocated Orbital die. Now, Botcom may not be happy with my choice here, but of the available options, starting staions right now seems unwise, starting Enterprise bays seems borderline unethical while we're still striving to narrow down our options, and working conditions in the moon mines are so bad that I don't much want to expand those until we have a better space habitat design.
That leaves Orbital Cleanup and Outer System Survey Probes. Finishing cleanup in Q4 gives us Political Support we can burn at reallocation (even as we try to burn off the surplus we got in Q3). It lets us store up money for 2062Q1 by being a cheap option, and it probable even pays for itself. Cleanup it is.
I gave up on the ion power refit (we're unlikely to have time to pursue it in 2062Q1 or 'Q2) and put a second die on tiberium power plants and a first die on tiberium silo construction, another project we've been idly thinking about for a long time. This, too, saved some money that went into savings.
EDIT: Also, since Ocular Implants can't justify two dice of effort, I'm flipping a die to hallucinogens. Again, saves more money.
MONEY BUDGET
1155 RpT income + 110(?) R reserves
1095/1265
170 R surplus budget at plan end (plus 10-30 R from orbital cleanup)
PESSIMISTIC CAPITAL GOODS BUDGET
+17 (?) baseline
+17 +2 (DHIA) -2 (claws) -1 (London) = +16
(I am not counting the +6 from Chicago or the +2 from Bergen; those 'only' have ~75% chances each of completing)
FOOD BUDGET
+20 (baseline from projects) -5 (refugees, pessimistic) = +15 (?) baseline, pessimistic
Becomes +12 with storehouses, 90% chance of +16 if vertical farms finish
MILDLY PESSIMISTIC ENERGY BUDGET
+8 baseline (huh, that was surprisingly spot-on)
+8 (baseline) + 16 (fusion) +8 (tiberium Phase 1) -4 (Chicago) -2 (Suzuka) -2 (drones) -2 (vertical farms) -1 (hospitals) -3 (London)
+18 Energy
GETTING YELLED AT BUDGET
117 (75 + 17 from projects + 25 from promises ), need to spend some
117 - 10 (Visceroids) -5 (genetic engineering) -5 (tiberium power) = 97 Political Support
15% chance of less if Phase 2 tiberium power finishes,
76% chance of +5 PS we can burn off in reallocation.
7/7 Free dice
[] Plan Attempting To Finish In Chicago With MAD SCIENCE! (Mk II)
-[] Infrastructure (5 dice + 2 Free dice, +32 bonus, 140 R)
--[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns Phase 6 273/300 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) 3/550 (6 dice + HI die, 120 R) (71% chance)
-[] Heavy Industry (4 dice + 2 Free dice + EREWHON!!!, +29 bonus, 110 R)
--[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 9) 236/300 (2 dice, 40 R) (100% chance)
--[] Advanced Alloys Development 0/120 (1+E dice, 30 R) (72% chance)
--[] Suzuka Prototype Hover Chassis Factory 0/175 (2 dice, 40 R) (50% chance)
--[] Chicago Planned City Phase 4 (see above)
-[] Light Industry (4 dice, +24 bonus, 90 R)
--[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 251/380 (2 dice, 60 R) (79% chance)
--[] Civilian Drone Factories 292/380 (1 die, 10 R) (52% chance)
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 50/1280 (1 die, 20 R) (1/16.5 median)
-[] Agriculture (4 dice + 1 Free die, +24 bonus, 65 R)
--[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction Phase 4 134/200 (2 dice, 20 R) (99.99% chance of Phase 4)
--[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2) 65/240 (3 dice, 45R) (90% chance, less if progress decay)
-[] Tiberium (7 dice, +39 bonus, 135 R)
--[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 5) 6/100 (1 die, 20 R) (61% chance)
--[] Improved Tiberium Containment Facilities Construction 0/120 (1 die, 20 R) (35% chance)
--[] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 1+2) 41/280 (2 dice, 40 R) (99% Phase 1, 15% Phase 2) (-5/?? PS from Phase 1/2)
--[] Visceroid Research Programs 0/120 (2 dice, 30 R) (99% chance) (-10 PS)
--[] Venusian Tiberium Studies 95/120 (1 die, 25 R) (100% chance)
--[] Tiberium Harvesting Claw Deployment 363/380 (autocompletes without dice)
-[] Orbital (6 dice, +26 bonus, 100 R)
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11+12) 32/170 (2 die, 20 R) (Stage 11, 76% chance of Stage 12)
--[] Leopard II Factory 0/350 (4 dice, 80 R) (32% chance)
-[] Services (5 dice, +27 bonus, 115 R)
--[] Human Genetic Engineering Programs 77/120 (1 die, 25 R) (100% chance) (-5 PS)
--[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 121/300 (2 dice, 50 R) (42% chance)
--[] Ocular Implant Deployment 77/120 (1 die, 25 R) (??% chance)
--[] Hallucinogen Research 0/60 (1 die, 15 R) (??% chance)
-[] Military (8 dice + 2 Free dice + AA die, +26 bonus, 240 R)
--[] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4) 36/220 (4 dice, 80 R) (99.4% chance, 99.9% with Seo bonus)
---[] Deliberate overkill onto Phase 5, a 30 R/die project
--[] OSRCT Stations (Phase 4) 319/395 (2 dice, 40 R) (99.7% chance, 100% with Seo bonus)
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (London) 121/180 (1+AA dice, 40 R) (98.6% chance)
--[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (Seattle) 0/300 (1 die, 20 R) (1/4 median)
--[] Sparkle Shield Module 0/120 (2 dice, 60 R) (91% chance)
---[] Toss a coin to your Talon
-[] Bureaucracy (4 dice, 100 R)
--[] Erewhon: GDI Dorfs Need Mithril Badly
--[] Administrative Assistance: Awoo Zone Troopers Of London
--[] Banking Reforms (-100 R)
That leaves Orbital Cleanup and Outer System Survey Probes. Finishing cleanup in Q4 gives us Political Support we can burn at reallocation (even as we try to burn off the surplus we got in Q3). It lets us store up money for 2062Q1 by being a cheap option, and it probable even pays for itself. Cleanup it is.
I gave up on the ion power refit (we're unlikely to have time to pursue it in 2062Q1 or 'Q2) and put a second die on tiberium power plants and a first die on tiberium silo construction, another project we've been idly thinking about for a long time. This, too, saved some money that went into savings.
EDIT: Also, since Ocular Implants can't justify two dice of effort, I'm flipping a die to hallucinogens. Again, saves more money.
MONEY BUDGET
1155 RpT income + 110(?) R reserves
1095/1265
170 R surplus budget at plan end (plus 10-30 R from orbital cleanup)
PESSIMISTIC CAPITAL GOODS BUDGET
+17 (?) baseline
+17 +2 (DHIA) -2 (claws) -1 (London) = +16
(I am not counting the +6 from Chicago or the +2 from Bergen; those 'only' have ~75% chances each of completing)
FOOD BUDGET
+20 (baseline from projects) -5 (refugees, pessimistic) = +15 (?) baseline, pessimistic
Becomes +12 with storehouses, 90% chance of +16 if vertical farms finish
MILDLY PESSIMISTIC ENERGY BUDGET
+8 baseline (huh, that was surprisingly spot-on)
+8 (baseline) + 16 (fusion) +8 (tiberium Phase 1) -4 (Chicago) -2 (Suzuka) -2 (drones) -2 (vertical farms) -1 (hospitals) -3 (London)
+18 Energy
GETTING YELLED AT BUDGET
117 (75 + 17 from projects + 25 from promises ), need to spend some
117 - 10 (Visceroids) -5 (genetic engineering) -5 (tiberium power) = 97 Political Support
15% chance of less if Phase 2 tiberium power finishes,
76% chance of +5 PS we can burn off in reallocation.
7/7 Free dice
[] Plan Attempting To Finish In Chicago With MAD SCIENCE! (Mk II)
-[] Infrastructure (5 dice + 2 Free dice, +32 bonus, 140 R)
--[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns Phase 6 273/300 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) 3/550 (6 dice + HI die, 120 R) (71% chance)
-[] Heavy Industry (4 dice + 2 Free dice + EREWHON!!!, +29 bonus, 110 R)
--[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 9) 236/300 (2 dice, 40 R) (100% chance)
--[] Advanced Alloys Development 0/120 (1+E dice, 30 R) (72% chance)
--[] Suzuka Prototype Hover Chassis Factory 0/175 (2 dice, 40 R) (50% chance)
--[] Chicago Planned City Phase 4 (see above)
-[] Light Industry (4 dice, +24 bonus, 90 R)
--[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 251/380 (2 dice, 60 R) (79% chance)
--[] Civilian Drone Factories 292/380 (1 die, 10 R) (52% chance)
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 50/1280 (1 die, 20 R) (1/16.5 median)
-[] Agriculture (4 dice + 1 Free die, +24 bonus, 65 R)
--[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction Phase 4 134/200 (2 dice, 20 R) (99.99% chance of Phase 4)
--[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2) 65/240 (3 dice, 45R) (90% chance, less if progress decay)
-[] Tiberium (7 dice, +39 bonus, 135 R)
--[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 5) 6/100 (1 die, 20 R) (61% chance)
--[] Improved Tiberium Containment Facilities Construction 0/120 (1 die, 20 R) (35% chance)
--[] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 1+2) 41/280 (2 dice, 40 R) (99% Phase 1, 15% Phase 2) (-5/?? PS from Phase 1/2)
--[] Visceroid Research Programs 0/120 (2 dice, 30 R) (99% chance) (-10 PS)
--[] Venusian Tiberium Studies 95/120 (1 die, 25 R) (100% chance)
--[] Tiberium Harvesting Claw Deployment 363/380 (autocompletes without dice)
-[] Orbital (6 dice, +26 bonus, 100 R)
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11+12) 32/170 (2 die, 20 R) (Stage 11, 76% chance of Stage 12)
--[] Leopard II Factory 0/350 (4 dice, 80 R) (32% chance)
-[] Services (5 dice, +27 bonus, 115 R)
--[] Human Genetic Engineering Programs 77/120 (1 die, 25 R) (100% chance) (-5 PS)
--[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 121/300 (2 dice, 50 R) (42% chance)
--[] Ocular Implant Deployment 77/120 (1 die, 25 R) (??% chance)
--[] Hallucinogen Research 0/60 (1 die, 15 R) (??% chance)
-[] Military (8 dice + 2 Free dice + AA die, +26 bonus, 240 R)
--[] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4) 36/220 (4 dice, 80 R) (99.4% chance, 99.9% with Seo bonus)
---[] Deliberate overkill onto Phase 5, a 30 R/die project
--[] OSRCT Stations (Phase 4) 319/395 (2 dice, 40 R) (99.7% chance, 100% with Seo bonus)
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (London) 121/180 (1+AA dice, 40 R) (98.6% chance)
--[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (Seattle) 0/300 (1 die, 20 R) (1/4 median)
--[] Sparkle Shield Module 0/120 (2 dice, 60 R) (91% chance)
---[] Toss a coin to your Talon
-[] Bureaucracy (4 dice, 100 R)
--[] Erewhon: GDI Dorfs Need Mithril Badly
--[] Administrative Assistance: Awoo Zone Troopers Of London
--[] Banking Reforms (-100 R)
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Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Why is this still here? Ocular Implants still need development, and only needs one to finish. Might as well put a die on the Hallucinogens.
- Location
- MSC
Any chance for 3rd dice on Suzuka?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
At the very least, that one die on that last shark class is not a plan goal and could be swapped out so we can get immediate benefit.
It was - but also I was expressing frustration with "don't develop until we can deploy" in general, which held back shimmer shields as well even though their applicability was hella broad, and other techs that didn't even have dedicated deployment projects. As for a "you must deploy quickly" thing, as you yourself say that was due to doing phase 1 deployment and then not phase 2, and we were told explicitly about that plan. Speculation that another constraint will suddenly appear because we did the research comes off as... kind of like reaching for reasons to put disruptors off again.
It's one of the most valuable military technologies we have and we keep not doing it - and now that our docket is almost entirely clear of plan goals and putting off development again means a year with no income for discretion, we seem to be inventing reasons not to and some of them are from whole cloth. It's maddening. This should never have been treated as a low priority item. It still shouldn't be.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Won't work. As Rakuhn noted, we've been explicitly told that the reconstruction fund is there to stay, at least for the foreseeable future. There's a lot of stuff that got blown up and never rebuilt, both in the Regency War and in Tib War III. And Nod still attacks things on a local level. Also, frankly, the fund is probably getting soaked by local politicians for long-deferred infrastructure renovations and rural aid programs and so on, which makes it politically hard to touch.
Because I forgot, that's why.
Where do I take it from? I figure that if Suzuka doesn't finish, we can probably shake loose one die to work on it in 2062Q1. Not easily, but we could. Or it might wait a turn or two. Not the worst thing in the world. At least we'll have gotten the ball rolling.
The Seattle yard isn't optional, it's just something we had to keep putting off for mandatory stuff and even more important stuff because our dice are cursed. If the New York carrier yard had rolled normally, Newark wouldn't have been on the menu and I'd be putting 3-4 dice on Seattle right now.
The Navy needs those frigates, and money's gonna be tight enough in Q1-Q2 that every 20 R/die die I have to roll to get Seattle done is gonna be a big pain in the ass. And we really do not want to keep the yard waiting past Q2, because we want the first wave of ships from it to be done in time for Karachi in, say, 2063Q4.
Which tech are you even talking about anymore? Advanced ECCM? Stealth disruptors?
I mean, you have a right to be maddened if you want, but I'm doing my best here to deal with the reality that we have a LOT of projects where if we don't finish them, soldiers die, and where the ffects are clear and well understood. A world in which we have stealth disruptors is better than a world in which we don't, but the entire Military category is one giant story of all the cool shit we could have if only we had 20 Military dice and an infinite budget.
After the mandatory plan goals and the power armor we really do need... There's some wiggle room left over, if we sacrifice the ships we also need. I put that on a tech. If you don't like my choice of tech, or you think I should scrap some more Free dice on civilian projects, or whatever, fine. But don't try to guilt-trip me into doing more Military techs by fuming at me about the lack of them. Make your own plan.
"If the Navy wanted Frigates more than Governor Refits, they wouldn't have asked us to do the latter. As it delays our ability to get the former out. Why would they pay us to put off doing the thing that they want done the most?"
Both those statements are false, so the question has a hole in it.
The Navy explicitly told us, and the QM told us like three times, that the Navy has no fixed timeline expectation regarding the Governor-A. Therefore, it is not true that "if [they] wanted frigates more than Governor refits, they wouldn't have asked us to do the latter." Because they have no trouble understanding the concept "Treasury builds the Seattle shipyard in early 2062, then builds the Governor-As later."
It is also false that asking us to build the Governor-As delays their ability to get the frigates built, because they didn't ask us to delay the frigates.
You're engaged in circular reasoning here. The Navy must want cruisers more than frigates, because they asked us about building cruisers when we weren't done building frigates, which proves they want cruisers more than frigates, because if they ask us to build cruisers while we're still building frigates, it means we'll stop building frigates and start building cruisers because they asked us to, because clearly the request means they want cruisers more than frigates, therefore we need to stop building frigates immediately and start building cruisers, which reaction proves the Navy wanted cruisers more than frigates all along.
No.
...
They asked us to promise to build cruisers eventually. Not necessarily this minute. Not necessarily in 2061Q4. Not right away. Soon. Reasonably soon. This is not a deadline they are planning to passive-aggressively spring on us in the near future. If this were a deadline with, say, a four turn expiration date, they would have said so, because they are not colossal idiots, and they know that if they want a short-term deadline to be met, they need to clearly inform us of their expectation.
The Navy is not playing "gotcha" with us here. They will not play "gotcha." There is no adversarial relationship that makes ambiguity scary because bad-faith actors might exploit it to hurt you. The Navy just wants some reasonable guarantee that we will continue to supply them with new boats. That is all they want.
They just want us to promise not to just leave this cruiser project sitting on the docket for years like we are forced to do with so many military projects. Like their own light carriers, which we had as an option starting around 2053 or so and didn't start work on until around 2060.
The Navy did not, in any way, shape, or form, ask us to halt construction of the Seattle shipyard, or to delay that construction to make room for the Governor-A. They did not ask us to do that. We do not have to do that. Nothing about their request either assumes that we will do that, requires that we must do that, or recommends that we should do that.
But I'll tell you what I just said a few hours ago.
...
Suppose you're right.
The first indisputable evidence we will see is that in the Q4 turn post, the Navy will choose to mark the Governor-A as "high priority," the Shark yard as either "normal priority," or both. We will see.
So maybe I'm right. Maybe you're right.
When the Q4 turn post pops, we will KNOW.
Do you agree that we can postpone further debate on this topic until such time as we have more information?
Both those statements are false, so the question has a hole in it.
The Navy explicitly told us, and the QM told us like three times, that the Navy has no fixed timeline expectation regarding the Governor-A. Therefore, it is not true that "if [they] wanted frigates more than Governor refits, they wouldn't have asked us to do the latter." Because they have no trouble understanding the concept "Treasury builds the Seattle shipyard in early 2062, then builds the Governor-As later."
It is also false that asking us to build the Governor-As delays their ability to get the frigates built, because they didn't ask us to delay the frigates.
You're engaged in circular reasoning here. The Navy must want cruisers more than frigates, because they asked us about building cruisers when we weren't done building frigates, which proves they want cruisers more than frigates, because if they ask us to build cruisers while we're still building frigates, it means we'll stop building frigates and start building cruisers because they asked us to, because clearly the request means they want cruisers more than frigates, therefore we need to stop building frigates immediately and start building cruisers, which reaction proves the Navy wanted cruisers more than frigates all along.
No.
...
They asked us to promise to build cruisers eventually. Not necessarily this minute. Not necessarily in 2061Q4. Not right away. Soon. Reasonably soon. This is not a deadline they are planning to passive-aggressively spring on us in the near future. If this were a deadline with, say, a four turn expiration date, they would have said so, because they are not colossal idiots, and they know that if they want a short-term deadline to be met, they need to clearly inform us of their expectation.
The Navy is not playing "gotcha" with us here. They will not play "gotcha." There is no adversarial relationship that makes ambiguity scary because bad-faith actors might exploit it to hurt you. The Navy just wants some reasonable guarantee that we will continue to supply them with new boats. That is all they want.
They just want us to promise not to just leave this cruiser project sitting on the docket for years like we are forced to do with so many military projects. Like their own light carriers, which we had as an option starting around 2053 or so and didn't start work on until around 2060.
The Navy did not, in any way, shape, or form, ask us to halt construction of the Seattle shipyard, or to delay that construction to make room for the Governor-A. They did not ask us to do that. We do not have to do that. Nothing about their request either assumes that we will do that, requires that we must do that, or recommends that we should do that.
But I'll tell you what I just said a few hours ago.
...
Suppose you're right.
The first indisputable evidence we will see is that in the Q4 turn post, the Navy will choose to mark the Governor-A as "high priority," the Shark yard as either "normal priority," or both. We will see.
So maybe I'm right. Maybe you're right.
When the Q4 turn post pops, we will KNOW.
Do you agree that we can postpone further debate on this topic until such time as we have more information?
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Apologies. I didn't notice before posting myself. I will put my response in a spoiler.
Incorrect. It starts to decay if we go over 100, regardless of when reallocation is, but also is probably not lost instantly. If we spend it the quarter after we go over 100, we will be okay, but otherwise it will start to decay.
Advanced Alloy deployment is likely to eat up a *lot* of STUs (up to a -10, if it follows what has been hinted at.) That said, that's for a *major* progress cut on megaprojects.
Hovertech is something we should also get working on, if we want our own air navy.
G-drive ships are going to eat a lot of them.
And, of course, lasers, which could probably eat up our entire STU production on their own, if we pushed that path.
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As regards development projects, I would kinda like to dedicate at least 1 die per turn going forward to Steel Talons developments - Heavy Combat Lasers likely got a boost from Bogatyr, and will open up new avenues of use in fortifications and space, and LCLs will improve our tank-based anti-missile/anti-infantry systems, and possibly more. And of course, the other projects have been discussed for their value.
Of course, I also really want to get on the ZOCOM project for next-gen sonic weapons, because that is also very likely to improve mining as well.
I'm hoping to get out all of the (current) mil tech devs over the course of the next year, as well as frigates, governors, and a third ZOCOM facility. I was hoping for a RZ MARV hub as well, but I have a feeling that we'll try to integrate the field refining tech into the next iteration prior to more MARV deployments.
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[Squints]
I believe YZ-17 is Hawaii, and that's why. We don't have a presence there, and it's not really suitable for MARVs anyway.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm not saying we can't use up all our available STUs.
I'm saying we cannot do so fast enough for it to make a critical difference whether we get 1-2 turns' worth of delay in implementing the Hewlett-Gardener process.
I feel similarly, though I'm hoping for boosts to abatement more so than mining in that one place.
The trick is that at least for a little while, we just can't afford Talons projects. Talk to me again in 2062Q3-Q4.
I don't think that long list of ambitions is realistic by 2062Q4 given the dice and budget constraints, and the need to actually deploy certain military technologies (railgun munitions, VTOL wingman drones for carriers, more Zone Armor factories).
Remember, you're talking about funding a lot of 20-30 R/die projects, which by definition we will not be able to implement all at once anyway, in a year when our budget has been cut to the bone and has to be laboriously rebuilt.
Ah. That would explain it, yes. A MARV in Hawaii would be fairly useless, unless GDI has worked out how to equip a MARV with water wings.
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Yeah, looking closely Suzuka not finishing is probably the least painful outcome.
True that it won't make a critical difference in STU availability, but it may be worth doing if it gates research for further advancements. (No idea if it does so or not, but it might - and long-term, STU availability is one of our critical limiting factors.)
And yeah, I rolled together "resource gathering" and "abatement" into mining.
As for the Talons, about half their projects are 20R/die, which is close to doable... but yeah, all "x per turn" things are on hold for the first couple turns of the plan.