- Location
- The Underdark
This is a mistake that did not get caught and I have skipped over. I will see about fixing it in the morning.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- canada
I wonder, can the Navy's amount of ships and overall effective capability against the enemy navies be substantially boosted by the Plasma warheads? Because even if the carriers are slow to be produced in high quantities all that quickly, could the quality of their offensive capability be boosted quickly by having the aircrafts that the carriers use carry Plasma warheads to more than even the odds?
Basically, if the ships that can carry aircraft and drones can't be increased fast, why not make each aircraft more deadly by producing a lot of powerful missiles to shoot with at a fast pace instead? The ammunition, even if expensive in terms of STUs, are still much more quickly produced than ships right?
Basically, if the ships that can carry aircraft and drones can't be increased fast, why not make each aircraft more deadly by producing a lot of powerful missiles to shoot with at a fast pace instead? The ammunition, even if expensive in terms of STUs, are still much more quickly produced than ships right?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I mean, we actually have big surpluses in some of those areas, where even massive enemy action would struggle to put dents in us. It's Health and Energy that are really tough, where we have to do some aggressive work (ongoing aggressive work, in Energy) to keep up.
This isn't so good. We really need to keep our Energy supplies comfortably high, because we're building doing aggressive programs of war factory construction. The typical turn plan for us is very likely to be eating up like -12 Energy per turn for the foreseeable future. Anything less than about four dice per turn on Energy is inherently going to cause us to fall behind the curve.
And the alternative is, what, four dice on Nuuk? Nuuk is important, but not urgent in the same sense; we need the Energy now but we don't have obvious immediate need for all the Capital Goods.
This is especially worrying to me because your plan probably won't finish the fusion reactors... but will probably finish this phase of Nuuk, costing -8 Energy. Our surplus ain't that big to begin with.
I'm actually tempted to go for caffeinated kudzu next turn. The Food surplus looks pretty solid, in that another turn of demand increasing by the same amount it increased this turn, or even 2-3 times as much, wouldn't burn through the whole surplus.
Rare Metals harvesting is NOT a good investment right now. It doesn't pay for itself in Resources before we hit reallocation. Heavy Metals and Regolith mining do. And since we're pre-committed to doing three phases of heavy/regolith mining anyway, it's just pointless to do the rare mines right now. We should instead prioritize the bigger projects that will pay for themselves in time to matter. I'm advocating a dice split between heavy and regolith mining next turn, personally, with the small 'rares' mining operations coming in after we get close to completion of the big mines.
I don't want to overreact. We have +10 Health coming down the pipeline just from completing the existing projects; it's not a good idea to freak out and button-mash to get an extra +2 if it means losing -4 Capital Goods from our solid but limited surplus stash before we get the third phase of Nuuk online. Though I suppose your plan kind of synergizes there, since it's got a good chance of making up for the loss by finishing Nuuk.
I think we should skip things like glide munitions and recon drones. The Air Force needs those Firehawk support drones, and there's about four dice in your plan that need reallocation to shell plants, Firehawk drones, or both.[/SPOILER]
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Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
I get that you're saying this is a negatory, and respect that, but it feels like the opposite given that my statement was largely intended as "We, the Treasury, could engineer a situation where they, the Navy, are capable of concentrating and directing a large enough force to isolate and destroy NOD's heavy surface assets, cost of doing so be damned."
I'm not saying this would be easy to do, or even close to something the Navy can do right now. And in fairness, the how of this almost certainly isn't just more hulls - though that's probably a lot of it. But simply as a matter of investment and visibility I can't see a way for NOD to effectively maintain heavy surface assets if GDI's Admirals go "I do not consent to your existence." and have the ability to concentrate enough of their heavy strike punch to make it stick.
Which is what I see the CCs and dedicated CLs being a primary pathway to.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
That... is sneakily clever.
[grins]
The only problem is that I suspect our problem with carrier performance has less to do with our carrier aircraft's ability to kill the things they shoot at, and more to do with just not having enough. I think it'd end up helping a little, but only a little, but that's nothing to sneeze at now that I think about it.
Naval SAMs tipped with plasma warheads might also help our carriers and other platforms defend themselves against air attack, which is nice too, mind you.
Damn. You've actually made me want to build Phase 2 of the plasma missile factories.
Good idea.
What differentiates in your mind between a Karachi Sprint and a Karachi Push? Do you intend to spend less dice in the envisioned 'Push?' I'm not sure that's a good move, because it kind of half-asses our effort to hit the requirement target, which would involve finishing Phase 4 by 2061Q4. We can accomplish that if we start in 2061Q2 (assuming we even can given the war situation)... But we'd still need to do like @uju32 originally suggested, and throw all Infrastructure and Tib dice at the project for that specific turn.
They're clearly prioritizing immediate wartime requirements, and even the Ground Force generals know that a mass rollout of Zone Armor factories ain't happening during wartime. Besides, they'd have to pull troops off the line for months to train them in the use and field maintenance of the new armor, and that would be kind of a nonstarter right now.
I'd say we have four priorities, in rough descending order of importance:
1) Shipbuilding. Obvious.
2) Firehawk drones. Important, stops Air Force bleeding before it becomes crippling, even benefits the navy a bit by letting fleet carriers punch slightly harder in 'alpha strike' scenarios.
3) Shell plants. Needed to stop us from running out of guided shells in 2060Q4, which means we need to build them now. Other things may also be greatly needed, but this is too.
4) Plasma missiles. We want to at least finish what we started with Phase 1 of the production line. Two dice to push through the Phase 2 is probably ill-advised given that we could easily justify spending far more dice than we actually have on (1) through (3).
Everything else can wait even if we wish it didn't have to.
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
You should probably both look at this:
It's kinda a nuts on a brownie sorta situation.
- Location
- The Underdark
Yes, you can make that happen with sufficient investment. It is something where you can't do it now, but if you are able to do things like stage a Normandy level invasion every six to nine months, there are only so many places the Brotherhood can hide shipbuilding.
- Location
- ' New Eden
Holy fuck Granger, could you please STFU, that's called OpSec. You don't talk about what you do or don't have. That's rule number one.
Also could you please stop talking about daily politics generally when not anymore in office? Kind of seems to be appropriate for a former Head of Government to not comment about the politics of his successor after leaving office unless it's in a really dire state.
I don't believe that the Navy has plans to use plasma warheads soon - they are likely planning on seeing how the implementation by the Air Force goes, and then seeing if there are STUs to spare.
However, it is notable that both Firehawk and Orca drones would boost the Navy's carrier combat capability.
I disagree. I'm pretty sure that we will be getting some major flak if we don't finish Nuuk 3 this coming turn. I'm surprised that we're still in double-digits of Capital Goods production, although that may well be from some of the sabotage not having fully taken effect yet.
The idea that NOD doesn't already know this is kinda laughable. These are things that any state would expect their enemy's intelligence service to keep track of.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
I'm thinking clearer now after dinner and a shower. Nuuk is a priority for me, those tick drones are just- I have a hard time imaging a department that won't make use of them, they'd do so much to speed up construction. Anything that requires digging, which applies to basically anything taller then two stories, goes so much faster. I want this real bad.
Also a question for the @Ithillid. Is there synergy for the laser weapon development? Like if we did both the heavy and light lasers for the Steel Talons and the new navy lasers, would there be an bonuses?
Also a question for the @Ithillid. Is there synergy for the laser weapon development? Like if we did both the heavy and light lasers for the Steel Talons and the new navy lasers, would there be an bonuses?
According to WOG if we try anything major like Karachi before significantly building up our naval forces we will probably lose conversions along with the convoys they protect due to having "marginal at best escort assets".
Also according to WOG trying to Karachi with our current navy will "force the readiness levels of the sealanes across the world to be lesser than that during the immediate aftermath of the Third Tiberium War". That is not something 20 small ships and conversions will fix. The conversions make Karachi possible, they do not make it a good choice.
As for whether they're "trash" or "useless" no, they're not. They're nowhere near as good as an actual military carrier at carrier ops but they aren't useless. What they definitely are is very fragile and that is why something like 2061 Karachi which forces us to reduce their escorts to a bare minimum is not a good idea.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Ehh, we're already committed to building Nuuk Phase 3 and 4, which together put out +48 Capital Goods, by the end of the Plan. We should be fine, it's just gonna be a little tight if the "war's over, emergency allocations end" button gets pushed unexpectedly before we finish Nuuk Phase 3. But I don't think that'll happen, because it looks like the war's not gonna end before 2060Q4 at the earliest, and even a relatively slow roll on Nuuk gets us over the line by then. Of course, the big catch is that we really have to finish Phase 4 (a 1200-point project) by 2061Q4 come Hell or high water... but eh, that's only about sixteen dice, so we can make it work in the aftermath of the shooting dying down a bit.
We have shipboard marines in Zone Armor, based on the battle where Bintang unleashed killer cyborg squids on our fleet. I'm pretty sure the Navy would at least equip said shipboard marines with a flotation device in case they fall overboard.
I'm not optimistic about Karachi 2061, but not completely ruling it out. Again, the only controversial thing I want to push is that we do SOME work on Blue Zone Arcologies Phase 4 in 2060Q4 and 2061Q1, so that if we need our Infrastructure dice for Karachi in 2061Q2 and 'Q4, we can do so without failing to keep that particular other Infrastructure Plan commitment.
I'm almost all the way with you. I want to slow-walk the 'assistants' project because it's a big Capital Goods investment and right now with the war, I'm averse to doing anything that causes our Capital Goods surplus to dip below about +10 if I can help it.
One potential problem scenario is Mondragón hooking up with Stahl. We don't have a coastal presence between them on the Pacific coastline, and I can only assume Stahl has good subterranean connections deep under the Andes to connect his territories on the two sides of the mountain range.
Honestly, Mondragón swearing allegiance to Stahl (who is doing well) makes as much or more sense as it does for Waters to swear to Krukov.
I am of much the same mind as you, except that I consider the shell situation to be "immediate concern" in that "we're gonna run out in 2060Q4 at this rate."
We have a shell problem right now, which merits immediate concern. If we don't act this quarter, we will have a shell crisis as GDI gunners all over the world start reaching into the cupboard for some more kaboom to throw at Nod and finding that the cupboard is bare, before our factories can fully come online and start meeting the demand.
At which point, the offensive will falter.
I think some of those requirements are arbitrary extras that aren't needed.
Decent Naval confidence should be sufficient, if it's combined with us actually having the yards up and running and hulls in the water. If hulls aren't in the water, realistically Naval confidence won't be at 'Decent' anyway.
High Air Force confidence is kind of an arbitrary requirement; we don't know what the Air Force would need. The main real requirement is "can the Air Force concentrate huge forces in BZ-4 (Arabia, that is) to support the landings?" For which the real issue isn't "is the Air Force confident," it's "is Steel Vanguard over without the Air Force having been ground down to a nub?" Sure, we'll have to tangle with the Indian warlord's air forces, but we're tangling with Nod air forces all over the world anyway and there's no clear evidence that India's got significantly better kit than the stuff we're already fighting elsewhere. The Air Force can handle it if they can handle Krukov and Stahl's aviation threats.
The Himalayan Blue Zone MARV hub is not a clear necessity. If anything, working on Karachi makes it less likely that we will need that, because Karachi itself will be the target for any offensives that would normally target BZ-18.
The extra Apollo factory isn't necessary; even the Air Force doesn't really want them that much while fighting a global war. It won't need them extra-bad to fight a sudden expansion pack regional war shortly after the main war.
And "three phases of Zone Armor" is just you putting an arbitrary wish list on the project. We should probably try to get a factory for Zone Armor out in 2060Q4-2061Q1 if we can, just on general principles and so Ground Forces can start building competence, but Ground Forces' and the Steel Talons have plenty of heavy weaponry, and it's so far proved adequate if not optimal in countering biomonsters.
Would Phase 2 of the plasma missile production project include heavy 'bunker buster' variants that would be suitable as warheads for antiship missiles?
Might we also see naval (ship-launched) SAMs with plasma warheads?
Repeatedly. The problem is that we're anxiously hoarding Political Support for the inevitable Plan target renegotiation, and also there are important "directly support Steel Vanguard and mitigate Tiberium to expand the Blue Zones" projects that compete for a lot of our Tiberium dice.
Also, it's likely that completing any more than one phase of liquid tiberium power will cost us a lot of extra Political Support, with escalating costs per phase, from what we've been told. That tends to put a damper on people's enthusiasm.
It's heavily implied that we'll be getting Tick diggers out of Nuuk Phase 3. There may be additional deployment options but that will be a good start, and I think it's what we should focus on.
If we're lucky, the Nod raiders will suffer significant attrition over the next 6-9 months of warfare. They don't have unlimited assets or capabilities, after all. If the raiding dies down somewhat (we can roughly gauge this by seeing what happens to our Logistics malus caused by raiding), then we may well be able to just do it, accepting the scraping-loose of ships and taking the hit from the surviving (diminished) raiders being somewhat more effective.
Again, remember that we're already escorting convoys up the coast of East Africa and into BZ-4 on a massive scale. We have to, because the Medina-Jeddah refinery complex is a big slice of our overall tiberium economy now and it has to be a major source of our raw materials for other places and things. Escorting to Karachi is going to be an extra task, but it's an extension of something we're already doing, not a vast and unprecedented action. Especially with land-based aviation options out of BZ-4 being available on a potentially large scale.
We would need the naval war to go well, probably better than I expect, to be able to dare Karachi 2061Q2. But I'm not ruling it out. We'll have to wait and see.
There are edge cases where using 1-2 Tiberium dice for one phase of the power plants helps us breathe easier and spend less on fusion reactors in the short term, but you're not wrong.
Ehh.
Nod can do horrible things to a liquid tiberium plant with a catalyst warhead, but they can also do horrible things to anything with a nuclear warhead. And my impression is that catalyst munitions are if anything more tightly controlled among Nod's upper echelons than nuclear weapons are. The immediate 'fallout' problem from the catalyst-on-tib-plant scenario is worse, but on the other hand we can place liquid tiberium plants in fairly isolated locations where either way it's just... not that big a deal if the hundred square kilometers around the plant need to be locked down and re-swept to turn the local area back from Yellow Zone to Blue again.
I'm not too worried about the actual potential for damage, I'm worried about people being pissed about the damage.
The problem is that this is only a good plan if Political Support is free and costs us nothing. And it isn't, and doesn't. We have a fairly limited number of additional projects that net us +Political Support quickly and easily without being a bad idea during wartime, and we know we plan to spend at least -39 Political Support between now and the end of the Four Year Plan, while only specifically having plans to gain another +10 or so.
And we want to end the Plan is a comfortable position with a solid margin of Political Support to ensure that we can negotiate on good terms to get reasonable Plan commitments for the next Plan.
For all those reasons, people are understandably hesitant to spend Political Support, which is a genuinely valuable currency in this game and which tiberium power uses.
I think Granger's just relieved to be a private citizen and not have to worry about shit. He's always been politically tone-deaf; note how some of our project options grew a +PS benefit spontaneously when Granger left office.
Besides, this isn't the kind of stuff that can realistically be kept under op-sec. It's not hard to figure out roughly how many doctors GDI has, for instance, and that's the kind of question Granger's talking about.
And in a way, Granger's even laying covering fire for Seo here, because he's saying "the root cause of our current problem is something Seo couldn't fix by throwing more money at the problem, the problem is fundamental and it's something I tried to fix but could only do so much with, we're short on trained manpower to do things like this." That's not Seo's fault, whereas "didn't allocate enough R to Services" kind of is Seo's fault.
I don't know what your basis is for inferring that, but I'm going to have to ask for more detailed explanation.
It wouldn't surprise me if sabotage is mainly hitting Logistics (rail lines are long, strung out, hard to secure) and just not hitting Capital Goods (which tends to be produced in centralized, well-secured locations and where the workforce is relatively limited and it's probably hard to get in without a background check).
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Draft plan:
Infrastructure 6/6 100R
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6?) 0/350? 2 dice 40R
-[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 4) 128/325 4 dice 60R 100%
Heavy Industry 5/5 + 4 180R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 6) 30/600 5 dice 100R 99%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3) 352/600 4 dice 80R 93%
Light & Chemical Industry 5/5 100R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 514/640 3 dice 60R 99%
-[] Medical Supplies Factories 129/225 2 dice 40R 95%
Agriculture 4/4 60R
-[] Poulticeplant Development 0/50 1 die 20R 95%
-[] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 3+4) 30/280 2 dice 20R 42%
-[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 126/200 1 die 20R 56%
Tiberium 7/7 130R
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 9) 2/325 5 dice 100R 99%
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 6+7) 46/200 2 dice 30R 82%
Orbital 6/6 120R
-[] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 2) 50/330 2 dice 40R
-[] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2) 145/385 4 dice 80R 92%
Services 5/5 95R
-[] Automatic Medical Assistants 0/300 3 dice 60R 16%
-[] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 122/160 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Hallucinogen Development 0/60 1 die 15R 88%
Military 8/8 + 3 200R
-[] Merchantman Carrier Conversions (High Commitments) 150/200 1 die 20R 92%
-[] Escort Carrier Shipyard (Battleship Yard) 0/120 2 dice 40R 87%
-[] Firehawk Wingmen Drones 0/450 4 dice 80R
-[] Heavy Support Laser Development (New) 0/50 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyard (Melbourne) 0/300 1 die 20R
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 6) 7/150 2 dice 20R 72%
Bureaucracy 4/4
-[] Request Reduction in Plan Commitments DC 120/160/200/240, DC 240 4 dice 24 PS 89%
7/7 free dice
985 R
Max:
+4 Logi
+2 Energy
+13 Cap
+12 Health
+17 Food
Infrastructure 6/6 100R
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6?) 0/350? 2 dice 40R
-[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 4) 128/325 4 dice 60R 100%
Heavy Industry 5/5 + 4 180R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 6) 30/600 5 dice 100R 99%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3) 352/600 4 dice 80R 93%
Light & Chemical Industry 5/5 100R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 514/640 3 dice 60R 99%
-[] Medical Supplies Factories 129/225 2 dice 40R 95%
Agriculture 4/4 60R
-[] Poulticeplant Development 0/50 1 die 20R 95%
-[] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 3+4) 30/280 2 dice 20R 42%
-[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 126/200 1 die 20R 56%
Tiberium 7/7 130R
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 9) 2/325 5 dice 100R 99%
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 6+7) 46/200 2 dice 30R 82%
Orbital 6/6 120R
-[] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 2) 50/330 2 dice 40R
-[] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2) 145/385 4 dice 80R 92%
Services 5/5 95R
-[] Automatic Medical Assistants 0/300 3 dice 60R 16%
-[] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 122/160 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Hallucinogen Development 0/60 1 die 15R 88%
Military 8/8 + 3 200R
-[] Merchantman Carrier Conversions (High Commitments) 150/200 1 die 20R 92%
-[] Escort Carrier Shipyard (Battleship Yard) 0/120 2 dice 40R 87%
-[] Firehawk Wingmen Drones 0/450 4 dice 80R
-[] Heavy Support Laser Development (New) 0/50 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyard (Melbourne) 0/300 1 die 20R
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 6) 7/150 2 dice 20R 72%
Bureaucracy 4/4
-[] Request Reduction in Plan Commitments DC 120/160/200/240, DC 240 4 dice 24 PS 89%
7/7 free dice
985 R
Max:
+4 Logi
+2 Energy
+13 Cap
+12 Health
+17 Food
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
IIRC Catalyst Missiles are a tech restricted to Kane's inner circle. Which means we shouldn't have to worry about them normally.
- Location
- Wall Gazing
So, in my mind there are 3 Karachi Xs. The Karachi Push, Sprint, and Bolt. The Karachi Sprint is as @uju32 has described, somewhere around 13-14 dice on Karachi for two turns, with mix of Infrastructure, Tiberium, and Free Dice. This practically guarantees Phase 4 in one turn and Phase 5 in the next. It is however a significant investment of resources, and may or may not be viable depending on the scale of what we want to accomplish with our Infrastructure, Tiberium and Free dice. I can easily see a scenario where we can and want to go for Karachi, but we also want to invest in our Rail/Fortresses/High Quality Housing in Infrastructure, and want our Free Dice in Military and Heavy Industry to continue Factory and Shipyard roll outs. That is where the Karachi Push comes in.
The Karachi Push is 7 dice on Karachi over two turns. It gives Phase 3 on the first turn and Phase 4 on the second (99% chance assuming average roll). It does not shoot for Phase 5 in this Plan. However, by only shooting for Karachi Phase 4 it frees up dice for other uses, such as Fortresses, Rail, High Quality Housing, Factories and Reactors. It is a smaller commitment, and it still gets us out of the Phase 1-2 beachhead zone on the first turn, and to the current Plan commitment, but it is less ambitious in that specific direction. The Karachi Bolt is the opposite.
The Bolt is an even quicker method for Karachi which would give a 15% chance it would complete Phase 5 in one turn. The plan is 6 Infrastructure dice, 7 Tiberium dice, 7 Free dice (all on Tiberium), and 2 Administrative Assistance dice. For a total of 22 dice and 440R on Karachi in one turn. That is the most dice we can currently put on one project in one turn. It would almost double the peak push for the Tiberium Stabilizers. It would have a base bonus of 750, meaning the first 3 phases would auto complete before any dice were even rolled. Further, the chance it wouldn't also complete Phase 4 is less than a percent of a percent of a percent. It would be a commitment of 44.7% of our current income, and 42.1% of our die pool.
This is no mere Karachi Sprint. This...
Is the Karachi Bolt.
It is also completely insane. I am in no way advocating for a Karachi Bolt as anything other than a meme plan. Not only is it unlikely to actually finish in one turn, it takes away too much of our ability to invest in other projects. But you asked for what was in my mind for the different Karachi die allocation possibilities, so behold its mad splendor.
Karachi is a serious military and economic advantage that should not be discounted. Those advantages would be significant going into the next FYP and in the current Regency War. However, I am not hopeful or optimistic that things will go well for the Navy in the next few turns. However the uncertainty in what will occur between now and when we would launch Eastern Paris is large enough that things can change a lot. As such I do not think we should expend the Political Support just yet. Especially with how knife edge Heavy and Orbital Industry are with our current commitments. If the Navy are at 'Decent' confidence with the Frigate Yards and Carrier Conversions finished, that is my 'go' criteria satisfied.
I actually agree with you on putting some dice into Arcologies in Q4. My thought process was 3 in Rail and Fortresses each this turn, then 2 into Fortresses and 4 into Arcologies on the next (2 in Fortresses gives 99% chance of completing the phase assuming an average die roll).
The big issue with this is that the navy is bleeding hulls and is not able to replace them fast enough anyway. Even with the frigates coming online, the 1 shipyard we've build constructing them is likely to not be able to match the numbers of hulls lost in time to make the navy's hull count the same or bigger at the end of the war compared to the start of it. GDI is very much catching up in the navy game.
Luckily, GDI is both very good at catching up, and has an absurd military industrial complex that it can exploit for things like 'print me 240 frigates in 30 months', if we manage to build all the frigate yards.
And unless we are talking the battleships and carriers, previous generation vessels are obsolescent at best. Not outright useless, but they need replacement with new vessels. And GDI would've been lucky to have 50 blue water ships smaller than a cruise at the start of the war.
The big issue isn't that the aircraft we are fielding aren't capable enough to destroy enemy ships and aircraft, it's that we have too few floating airfields to field them from. GDI needs more carriers more than it needs deadlier weapons for its aircraft, at least when it comes to maintaining convoy security.
That engineering is called 'we devote an entire Plan towards beefing up the navy', not because of resource costs, but because of time. Any shipyard we build will have its effect delayed into next plan anyway, basically. At that point though? Say, the mid to late 2060's? Nod's navy very rapidly stops existing, because the navy sinks its ships, and the rest of the military works to break every naval base they can get their hands on.
Train manufacturing can't keep up with the speed with which new rail is laid, so existing rolling stock is getting a bit stretched, but if the pace of new track is slowed the factories should be able to fill demand over time. And to be fair, rolling stock always gets stretched in wartime, as are the tracks. During WW2 Great Britain's rail network degraded significantly as a result of neglected maintenance of the engines, wagons and tracks, for example.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think what it comes down to is that that's an is statement, not a will be statement.
What you say is, as of 2060Q3, true. It may very well STILL be true as of 2060Q1 or 'Q2. But we should at least wait for the outcome of the 2060Q4 war turn before firmly making up our mind, and maybe the 2061Q1 war turn as well.
I'm hesitant to do poulticeplants right now. We don't actually have a lot of spare Agriculture dice to play with, either if we need to actually meet our Stored Food target, or if we wind up needing large amounts of additional Food because of the impending refugee wave we're only starting to see settle into our cities.
Lunar rare metals is a bad idea right now. It just postpones our construction of the other mines, which we are forced to build anyway, and which unlike the rare mines can pay for themselves if we build them now, but not if we delay much longer.
There is no actual benefit to having the rare phases done during 2060 as opposed to 2061, and some opportunity costs to doing them first, because we get about half as much RpT per die invested as we do for the other mines.
Again, I don't think AMA is actually a good idea right now. Like, start it, sure, but I don't want to commit to finishing a -4 Capital Goods option during wartime unless we're actually finishing a Capital Goods project to fully fund it and put us out of the range where we're likely to be hit with shortage pains.
- Location
- USA
I think you might be misreading that. It looks like 50 militarists went from strong support to weak and 30 development did the same.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I feel like the problem with the Push is that if we have to wait until 2061Q2 and we want Gulati to actually believe we met our commitment, we need to hit the "get Phase 4 done" target in Q2. I've heard things from @Ithillid suggesting that we can't meet the target with Q4 spending if we fail to complete it in Q2.
So if we wait until 2061Q2- and if we're doing it at all in '61 there's a high chance we will need to... We can't afford to half-ass it. We need to plunk down 13 dice on that turn so that any additional funding required will be minimal, accept a hiatus in any projects that support Steel Vanguard (if the Steel Vanguard push is still even going at that point and hasn't petered out precisely to concentrate on Karachi), and make up for any shortfalls later.
We can't slow-walk Karachi if we actually intend to meet the Plan target, and I don't think it's beneficial to our posture with respect to India to half-ass it, either, because I think a Karachi Phase 2 or 3 is going to be considerably more vulnerable to Indian counterattack than a completed Phase 4.
Maybe I'm getting that backwards, or maybe it was a typo, dunno, not worrying about it. I'll take your word for it.
We've been being low-key yelled at about being low on CapGoods since at least the start of the Regency War. That's a decent chunk of it. Some of the rest is due to snippets of battle stuff from the Discord, and the rest is pretty much the tone I've been getting from various project results, that I can't really point at one specific thing. But I will be very surprised if we aren't in trouble, if we fail to complete Nuuk 3 next turn.
- Location
- Wall Gazing
I was under the impression that rushing Phase 4 from nothing in Q4 2061 is what would make Gulati not actually believe we met our commitment, while a significant investment earlier with a final investment in Phase 4 would be accepted, but is has been a while so I might be misremembering.
Or... we could renegotiate.
Gulathi is not an idiot. She is also likely high up enough the chain of command to be able to access 'our navy is pretty fucked up right now and needs time to fix its everything' information, or at least be briefed on it. She wants Karachi. Seo failing to meet that desire this Plan because a war kicked off is inconvenient, but okay, that happens.
Now, renegotiating again, after the first time, probably won't be taken so kindly. And we will need to complete that demand. At least in part because the war is likely to be over by that time, or the navy has rebuild and expanded enough that it can take Karathi on as a project with minimal risk.
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
I really want to take her out first. I know she's kind of cutoff but we don't need our Russia issue becoming a Canada issue.
I would support this. It'd be good to spin off some of our responsibilities.
Dudes worried about this lady. Meanwhile former militant lady is like "On no he's hot."
I would watch that anime.
Okay that's cool. That let's them staff up without necessarily expanding membership.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
I would like to put forward for consideration: Operation Autumn Archer. (Or specifically, less Steel Vanguard.)
As in, we don't have to keep pushing forward with Steel Vanguard and depleting stocks of consumables and having our troops on full activity.
It is unlikely that NOD will be about to break under our aggressive pavement deployment, so it would be worth considering whether it would be beneficial for GDI to turtle while NOD keeps trying Masterstrokes.
A temporary switch to a defensive stance should give us less losses for a quarter or two, while also allowing stockpiles to build back up. We can then hammer NOD again when they are starting to slow. A turn or two to build up forces might be enough to help Eastern Paris look better.
As an added bonus, pushing the Autumn Archer button means Chicago Planned City.
As in, we don't have to keep pushing forward with Steel Vanguard and depleting stocks of consumables and having our troops on full activity.
It is unlikely that NOD will be about to break under our aggressive pavement deployment, so it would be worth considering whether it would be beneficial for GDI to turtle while NOD keeps trying Masterstrokes.
A temporary switch to a defensive stance should give us less losses for a quarter or two, while also allowing stockpiles to build back up. We can then hammer NOD again when they are starting to slow. A turn or two to build up forces might be enough to help Eastern Paris look better.
As an added bonus, pushing the Autumn Archer button means Chicago Planned City.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
This has my interest.