Was it ever stated what "discount on many projects" means when it says "many"? Because I don't see it affecting agriculture much for example. While it most likely will help with space mega construction projects, I don't see it helping much with things like North Boston or Nuuk for example since advanced alloys won't be a major part of the construction. It might help with future fusion plants on the other hand.
The problem I see is that a lot of the arguments pushing for the new alloy foundries basically sing praises on how we will save so many dice everywhere. But on the other hand there might be the side effect that projects not getting that cost reduction will end up getting sidelined due to us needing to "break even" on the alloy plants progress costs. So we either take projects not using the discount but that we thing are useful/essential or we try to take projects based on the discount.
And of course there is also the free dice cost of pushing the alloy plants. We are not pushing an aggressive space construction tempo.
Personally, I just want to do the first level of Alloy Plants this turn (and maybe like 1-2 dice next turn to finish it off if necessary) and then leave it until we aren't so hard-up for HI dice. Mainly so we can get a confirmation on what projects it actually effects.
Was it ever stated what "discount on many projects" means when it says "many"? Because I don't see it affecting agriculture much for example. While it most likely will help with space mega construction projects, I don't see it helping much with things like North Boston or Nuuk for example since advanced alloys won't be a major part of the construction. It might help with future fusion plants on the other hand.
The problem I see is that a lot of the arguments pushing for the new alloy foundries basically sing praises on how we will save so many dice everywhere. But on the other hand there might be the side effect that projects not getting that cost reduction will end up getting sidelined due to us needing to "break even" on the alloy plants progress costs. So we either take projects not using the discount but that we thing are useful/essential or we try to take projects based on the discount.
And of course there is also the free dice cost of pushing the alloy plants. We are not pushing an aggressive space construction tempo.
I fully expect it to help anywhere where a lot of alloys or construction are involved, so basically everywhere we are building things.
This includes Nuuk and North Boston, absolutely, and in agriculture things like Vertical Farms and Mechanization.
New alloys is not only things built out of metal. They are also new more effective tools that wear out slower. They are better and more efficient wiring and better reinforced concrete.
Material science is a huge part of any construction, the difference between Hoover Dam being nearly a world wonder and similar dams being nearly routine projects now, is material science.
That's their exact intended use case. Big infrastructure and heavy industrial projects like planned cities and arcologies and huge sprawling factory complexes. Anything that consumes a lot of steel and aluminum and titanium, e.g. pretty much every building, piece of infrastructure, and type of heavy industrial machinery we use.
Errr... North Boston 5 is most certainly in HI.
Nuuk is also in HI and is very desirable.
Those projects are delayed if we go heavy with Alloy Foundries.
Errr... North Boston 5 is most certainly in HI.
Nuuk is also in HI and is very desirable.
Those projects are delayed if we go heavy with Alloy Foundries.
And this was a follow up to my answer to F0lklore, who included things like orbital and infrastructure projects in his argument.
Had you quoted me in full, you would notice that relevant part of my answer was:
"This would be true if said projects were actually in HI.
Most aren't, so these projects do not compete with each other."
Mathpost: Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 10) 201/160 Communal Blue Zone Arcologies (New) 328/400 U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 1) Phase 1: 716/600 Phase 2: 116/600 Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 175/300 Civilian Ultralight Factories 244/190 Artificial Wood Furniture Plants (New) 33/100 Home Robotics Development (New) 70/30 Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 430/450 Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 5) Phase 5: 158/140 Phase 6: 18/140
Poulticeplant Development 64/50
Tiberium Vein Mines (Phase2+) Phase 2: 450/195 Phase 3: 255/190 Phase 4: 65/185?
Improved Hewlett Gardener Process Development 173/160
GDSS Columbia (Phase 1+2+3) Phase 3: 613/475 Phase 4: 138/555
GDSS Shala (Phase 1) Phase 1: 115/65 Phase 2: 50/135
Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11+12) Stage 11: 194/85 Stage 12: 109/85
Gene Clinics 138/120 Ocular Implant Deployment 196+5=201/200 NAT 100 Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories 79/250 Railgun Munitions Factories (Phase 1) Phase 1: 289/200 Phase 2: 89/200
Stealth Disruptor Development 46/40
Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) Phase 3: 335/180 Phase 4: 155/180
GD-3 Rifle Development 110/30
Modular Rapid Assembly System Prototypes 166/125
Agriculture Security Review 197/50
Military Security Review 52/50
Focus Reallocation (HI, Tib, Orbital) Auto
+6 High Quality Housing
-4-1-1-2= -8 Energy
-3-1= -4 Logistics
+6 Food
-1 Health
-1-1-1= -3 Capital Goods
-2 STUs
5% discount on many projects
+8 Consumer Goods
Roomba, Stealth Disruptor, GD-3 blueprints
-1-1+1-1-2= -4 Labor
Poulticeplant seeds
+2 YZ Abatement
+60 RpT
Next-gen Tib processing
+30 PS
+.75k Permanent residents in SPAAAAACE!
+1 available Bay on Columbia
Unlocks Orbital Power Stations
20 progress discount on earth orbit satellites
+25 Resources in reserve
+Gene Clinics
+Geordi LaForge (eventually)
+stuff to shoot
+Zone Suits
+Steel Talon prototypes
Projected end-of-quarter numbers:
Resources: 1125
Housing: +58 (23 population in low quality housing) (+1 high-quality housing per turn)
Energy: +35 (+4 in reserve)
Logistics: +10 (-2 from military activity)
Food: +17 (+24 backed reserve, +5 unbacked reserve) (-3 per turn from increasing population)
(Perennials: +1 on Q4 2062, +1 on Q1 2063, +1 on Q4 2063)
Health: +13 (-3 from Wartime Demand) (-10 from refugees)
Capital Goods: +20 (+2 per turn from Distributed Industrial Authority) (+208 in reserve)
STUs: +10
Consumer Goods: +117 (-5 from demand spike) (+3 per turn from Private Industry) (+3 per turn from sub-departments) (+2 per turn from perennials. -1 per turn Q2 2063, -1 per turn Q1 2064) (Net +8 per turn)
Labor: +45 (+4 per turn from medical care) (+2 per turn from Immigrant qualifications) (-1 per turn from private industry) (-1 per turn from other government) (Net +4)
Tiberium Processing Capacity (2535/3350)
Taxation Per Turn: +60
Space Mining Per Turn: +100
Maintenance Reductions: +50
Green Zone Water: +5
Start of turn Tiberium Spread
23.57 (+0.15) Blue Zone
0.04 (+0.00) Cyan Zone
0.66 (-0.15) Green Zone
22.46 (-0.11) Yellow Zone (92 points of mitigation)
53.27 (+0.11) Red Zone (80 points of mitigation)
End of turn:
23.96 (+0.39) Blue Zone
0.04 (+0.0?) Cyan Zone
0.27 (-0.39) Green Zone
23.11 (+0.65) Yellow Zone (94 points of mitigation)
52.62 (-0.65) Red Zone (80 points of mitigation)
Phase 1 of the alloy done is nice. Would really like to see Gravitic soon so we could get development going on that but knowing what projects get discounted will be very nice. Also improved process is down and 2 tib veins. So more veins and 1 die on refit there.
I wonder if we manage to reach 3000-3500 Tiberium Processing per Turn. Will there be a halt on Tiberium harvesting and processing and just concentrate on spending for an entire plan with out various projects for a whole plan?
Like instead of mining or harvesting ops, we could concentrate on Refits and inhibitors for a whole plan?
I think we'll want to keep mining to some extent because mining is connected to abatement, but up to a point, very possibly. I'm pretty sure that if we hit our targets for the Fourth Four Year Pan, GDI's economy will be in about as good a shape as it was before the Third Tiberium War, so that's something.
True; I suppose I was going for a paraphrase that preserved the spirit of the original in a concise form.
And honestly, I consider the exchange to contribute honorably to Lincoln's reputation, and I see no pressing need to detract from Lincoln's reputation, so I don't mind passing it around.
That doesn't waste any of the benefits of the discounts
It's a percentage benefit, not a number benefit and therefore it doesn't need to be done early to get the full discount later
This would be true if said projects were actually in HI.
Most aren't, so these projects do not compete with each other. I also do not advocate for a massive free dice investment into HI that would slow things down. Five to seven dice in HI - so zero to one free die with the planned focus reallocation taken into account is enough.
And the big push in fusion power is still around two to three years away, more than enough time to roll out alloys beforehand.
I am going to get really salty and frustrated if we're still waiting around until 2064 to start replacing or refurbishing old fusion plants. Because at that point, we are gambling hard on the engineers not having been over-optimistic in calculating the remaining service life of the plants.
Remember that our sources are not automatically guaranteed as omniscient reliable narrators. We damn near accidentallied our way into a nuclear war by pushing too confidently into the Yellow Zones just a year or so ago in-game, because someone gave us an estimate and we pushed the line a little too far by treating it as gospel.
Was it ever stated what "discount on many projects" means when it says "many"? Because I don't see it affecting agriculture much for example. While it most likely will help with space mega construction projects, I don't see it helping much with things like North Boston or Nuuk for example since advanced alloys won't be a major part of the construction. It might help with future fusion plants on the other hand.
The problem I see is that a lot of the arguments pushing for the new alloy foundries basically sing praises on how we will save so many dice everywhere. But on the other hand there might be the side effect that projects not getting that cost reduction will end up getting sidelined due to us needing to "break even" on the alloy plants progress costs. So we either take projects not using the discount but that we thing are useful/essential or we try to take projects based on the discount.
And of course there is also the free dice cost of pushing the alloy plants. We are not pushing an aggressive space construction tempo.
The way I figure it, once we get the first phase of the alloy foundries done, we will KNOW which projects' costs are or are not affected. Then we can make up our minds. Worst probable case is that we decide it's kinda worth it but not super worth it, and so do not spend any more Free dice to accelerate construction... in which case, well, we've spent a few Free dice this turn on something that isn't super-efficient but isn't necessarily useless or even that bad.
We're not zombies; we won't just Leeroy Jenkins through all six phases of the project at eight dice per turn or whatever if someone like @doruma1920 runs the numbers on which projects were affected by the first phase, crunches the numbers, and concludes that it doesn't pay.
Very nice turn all in all.
Alloys overperforming is great.
Too bad about Kudzu and another stage of vein mines finishing would have been really nice to have, but the 100 in implants is amazing - I hope our trend of acing transhumanist technologies is to continue.
+6 High Quality Housing
-4 logistics
-5% to all progress on a variety of projects
-8 energy
-2 STUs
+8 Consumer Goods
+6 food
-4 labor
-3 capital goods
+60 R?
+New Tiberium Processing Methods
+750 permanant space residents
+30 PS
+one time 25 R
-1 Health
The first Columbia bay is now available. So I'm looking forward to seeing what those are going to be. As well as the ensuing arguments.
IIRC from a long long time ago I think the Columbia bays were going to be set around providing services and comforts to the people living and working in orbit and space. Something for them to enjoy so they don't have to go all the way back to Earth.
Maybe providing services like restaurants and stuff like that. Or maybe a hospital so critical cases don't have to go down to the surface.