- Location
- United States
[X] Plan Life in Space
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
[X] Plan Karachi Wingmen
[X]Plan SPAAAACE! stations v2
[X] Plan Looters' Reward
[X] My attempt at a plan
[X]Plan SPAAAACE! stations v2
[X] Plan Looters' Reward
[X] My attempt at a plan
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
I've skipped 10 pages of posts. Sorry, things are really awkward right now. Might browse them later.
Wow, those U series Alloy Foundries are almost expensive enough to just NOPE at them...
But I'll accept 1 phase to get a look at what they apply to. That whole project is way too expensive and big to do anything further with though. We cannot afford to lock down HI for 3 years to roll all of that out.
[] Plan Life in Space
Err... No spending towards anything that gives Capital Goods? We are going to get a crunch again.
And Aquaponics, which we don't need.
Nah.
[X] Plan Karachi Wingmen
Works towards getting Capital Goods, which is good.
Not sure why 2 dice for an Agri security review though. 94% seems good enough to me. Going to 98% doesn't seem significantly better. (Each extra die increases the chance of a 1 rolling...)
Happy with the Interdepartmental Favours even though I'm not sure what we need PS for.
[X]Plan SPAAAACE! stations v2
Nanotubes, Agri Mech and Stations is good.
[X] Plan Foot off the Mining Pedal Q2 2062
Macrospinner. 'nuf said.
(Laser Refits are also favourable.)
[X] Plan Dark Horse
Looks good as well. Fusion Shipyard is something that we might need if we do need a Lunar City to meet the Space Pop goals, and it should mean cheaper lunar mining as well.
[X] Plan Foot off the Mining Pedal Q2 2062, Chicago Apartments
Adequate.
[X] Foot off the Mining Pedal Q2 2062, Maximum Chicago
Refugees have stopped, so this is fine. For real, not even meming here.
We need those Capital Goods now. This is our fastest option for a good supply.
[X] My attempt at a plan
I'd vote for it. I even am.
Edit: I would prefer equal spending toward Columbia and Shala. Both have Bay options that I would like to asap. I am not feeling comfortable with rushing one at the expense of the other. I don't think we really have any good arguments for doing so.
Wow, those U series Alloy Foundries are almost expensive enough to just NOPE at them...
But I'll accept 1 phase to get a look at what they apply to. That whole project is way too expensive and big to do anything further with though. We cannot afford to lock down HI for 3 years to roll all of that out.
[] Plan Life in Space
Err... No spending towards anything that gives Capital Goods? We are going to get a crunch again.
And Aquaponics, which we don't need.
Nah.
[X] Plan Karachi Wingmen
Works towards getting Capital Goods, which is good.
Not sure why 2 dice for an Agri security review though. 94% seems good enough to me. Going to 98% doesn't seem significantly better. (Each extra die increases the chance of a 1 rolling...)
Happy with the Interdepartmental Favours even though I'm not sure what we need PS for.
[X]Plan SPAAAACE! stations v2
Nanotubes, Agri Mech and Stations is good.
[X] Plan Foot off the Mining Pedal Q2 2062
Macrospinner. 'nuf said.
(Laser Refits are also favourable.)
[X] Plan Dark Horse
Looks good as well. Fusion Shipyard is something that we might need if we do need a Lunar City to meet the Space Pop goals, and it should mean cheaper lunar mining as well.
[X] Plan Foot off the Mining Pedal Q2 2062, Chicago Apartments
Adequate.
[X] Foot off the Mining Pedal Q2 2062, Maximum Chicago
Refugees have stopped, so this is fine. For real, not even meming here.
We need those Capital Goods now. This is our fastest option for a good supply.
[X] My attempt at a plan
I'd vote for it. I even am.
Edit: I would prefer equal spending toward Columbia and Shala. Both have Bay options that I would like to asap. I am not feeling comfortable with rushing one at the expense of the other. I don't think we really have any good arguments for doing so.
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[X] Plan Karachi Wingmen
- Location
- USA
After having thought about it for a while, I've come to the conclusion that deploying the alloys is what we should focus heavy industry on until it's done.
But not to the point of meme plans or rushing it.
Energy development is also very important.
So I think we should put whatever dice needed to improving energy in future plans, prototype plants or refits, then put the rest into alloys.
The potential savings are significant. And if they affect orbital that could be a huge amount of savings for whatever comes after the stations. Moon cities or colony stations.
It would put heavy industry under a bit of a crunch as far as plan goals but not to bad of one and any free dice saved from orbital could go there.
Just my two cents on it.
Of course we might finish the first phase and it won't be nearly as effective as we hoped.
In which case... nevermind.
But not to the point of meme plans or rushing it.
Energy development is also very important.
So I think we should put whatever dice needed to improving energy in future plans, prototype plants or refits, then put the rest into alloys.
The potential savings are significant. And if they affect orbital that could be a huge amount of savings for whatever comes after the stations. Moon cities or colony stations.
It would put heavy industry under a bit of a crunch as far as plan goals but not to bad of one and any free dice saved from orbital could go there.
Just my two cents on it.
Of course we might finish the first phase and it won't be nearly as effective as we hoped.
In which case... nevermind.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
I don't think we can though. We need North Boston 5 done this Plan, and the indicators numbers from it.
Doing both is going to take about 70 dice, if Boston is done last.
We have about 89 dice left in the Plan.
We'll need a couple to get Chicago 5 done. Many more for power plants.
Ignoring Isolinear Chips is likely a bad idea. (Although NB5 does give us a ton of computational hardware already, so maybe that could wait.)
LVPAD will likely be really good too... etc.
We can maybe do one phase of U-series Alloy Foundries per year.
This is a case where our technology is ahead of our industry. (Like the AEVAs were.) Attempting to push this out now may not be the most effective use of our HI dice. Especially if it means we aren't building anything in HI for 2 years.
Doing both is going to take about 70 dice, if Boston is done last.
We have about 89 dice left in the Plan.
We'll need a couple to get Chicago 5 done. Many more for power plants.
Ignoring Isolinear Chips is likely a bad idea. (Although NB5 does give us a ton of computational hardware already, so maybe that could wait.)
LVPAD will likely be really good too... etc.
We can maybe do one phase of U-series Alloy Foundries per year.
This is a case where our technology is ahead of our industry. (Like the AEVAs were.) Attempting to push this out now may not be the most effective use of our HI dice. Especially if it means we aren't building anything in HI for 2 years.
- Location
- USA
Is that just heavy industry dice? I was thinking we would start putting a few free dice there if the savings extended to orbital as well.
Edit: and even only doing a few phases would probably have some significant narrative effects. I imagine a bunch of projects would benefit or become available if we had a steady supply of crazy metals.
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- Location
- MSC
TBH that is a big question.
If Alloys discounts don't apply to Orbital, then we're probably better off doing Boston first.
I do admit, that if we focus on Boston and Alloys plus assorted Energy projects, then we're probably not going to complete anything else in HI.
Maybe Electric vehicles and 1-2 phases of Aberdeen.
Plus we don't know how effective Next gen Fusion will be, so there's that.
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- Location
- Milky Way
[X] Plan Rearden Wept
[X]Plan SPAAAACE! stations v2
[X] Plan Life and Fusion in Space
[X] Plan Karachi Wingmen
[X]Plan SPAAAACE! stations v2
[X] Plan Life and Fusion in Space
[X] Plan Karachi Wingmen
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- Location
- USA
Absolutely. 100%
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Yeah, that was HI dice. Although I did include the last phase of Foundries, which doesn't give a discount.
But the important part is that we'll be needing a significant portion of our free dice in HI if we try to go full Foundries. I had just caught up to doruma's dice analysis, but promptly forgot the numbers. Tired. Also, those are unavoidably vague. (Not a criticism.) Especially as we cannot possibly rush this project.
Now, we do recover dice (eventually) across all departments by building those Foundries, but only Orbital returns those as Free Dice. So our net effect is much less freedom in what we are doing (as we'll have even less free dice than we have now, with Orbital needing them), and likely no freedom in HI at all. HI will be those required projects, the alloy Foundries, whatever power we need, and nothing else. And it will be eating free dice to do that.
The Alloy Foundries are just too big.
Yes, they give decent discounts. But to get them, we will be devoting massive amount of time and resources to them. And we cannot afford to lock HI out of producing new power plants, more capital goods and further engineering advances.
This is a strong example of trying to balance efficiency versus effectiveness. If you look at efficiency alone, we build the Alloy Foundries now and reap massive discounts in a few years time.
But what could GDI have achieved if we had built North Boston 5 first instead? The Alloy Foundries delay that project completion by ~2 years (number approximate, sleepiness inbound). Now, getting +33 Capital Goods 2 years earlier means the private economy has capital goods 2 years earlier. It means that our AI works better 2 years earlier. It means people can play Direct & Destroy X edition on new graphics card 2 years earlier. Etc. Everything other than Alloy Foundries is a much more effective use our dice in the short and medium term.
The risk with going hard on projects that discount other projects is that you never actually get the projects that deliver things done. And a project that costs 20% more is far more effective than a project that hasn't been delivered because someone decided that we needed another cost saving project done first.
We could do a round or two of:
[ ] Red Zone Energy Refits (Phase 1)
While the layouts of existing Red Zone harvesting operations are dramatically inefficient for the Ion Storm collectors compared to the proposed models, refitting some number of operations will have significant power savings for the rest of the Initiative's energy system.
(Progress 0/350: 25 resources per die) (+10 Energy)
instead of power from HI as we have enough dice in tiberium to complete all goals and will soon have enough income to activate all dice even with the most expensive options
[ ] Red Zone Energy Refits (Phase 1)
While the layouts of existing Red Zone harvesting operations are dramatically inefficient for the Ion Storm collectors compared to the proposed models, refitting some number of operations will have significant power savings for the rest of the Initiative's energy system.
(Progress 0/350: 25 resources per die) (+10 Energy)
instead of power from HI as we have enough dice in tiberium to complete all goals and will soon have enough income to activate all dice even with the most expensive options
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
One of the other effects of focusing HI on Alloy Foundries is that we're delaying the Capital Goods we need to get the Long Term Systematic Planning Organization and Predictive Modeling Management. The former is a project specifically meant to improve our ability to do large-scale projects like Stations and Alloy Foundries, and the latter will greatly reduce how many nat 1s we get, which large projects are more susceptible to due to rolling so many dice. Only HI can give us the large injections of CG we need for those two improvements, but we won't be able to do them for many turns if we're putting all our dice into the Alloys instead.
- Pronouns
- He/His/etc
Wouldn't 2d50 technically mean we roll more natural 1s?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Hm. This post, or one in the next 10-20 minutes, is likely to be the last one I get out before the vote closes, unless I do something immediately before the vote closes depending on my after-work situation. We'll see.
Remember, too, that we're going to be under pressure to use all or nearly all our Tiberium dice on Karachi between (probably, roughly) 2063Q4 and 2064Q1-2. That means there's going to be a period where we're not doing ion power refits on a useful scale... and by that time our current Energy surplus will be long gone.
Whether it has a corresponding effect on natural 100's, I don't know.
Yeah, but this is dramatically less dice-efficient and takes away dice we could instead be using for inhibitors, tiberium mining, and improving our refinery infrastructure.
Remember, too, that we're going to be under pressure to use all or nearly all our Tiberium dice on Karachi between (probably, roughly) 2063Q4 and 2064Q1-2. That means there's going to be a period where we're not doing ion power refits on a useful scale... and by that time our current Energy surplus will be long gone.
We've been explicitly told that the effect of the change will be to damp out and reduce the effect of natural 1's.
Whether it has a corresponding effect on natural 100's, I don't know.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We've been explicitly told the probabilities will be tweaked so natural 100s happen at about the same chance as before.
Oledoms
Friesmancer
I wonder if we manage to reach 3000-3500 Tiberium Processing per Turn. Will there be a halt on Tiberium harvesting and processing and just concentrate on spending for an entire plan with out various projects for a whole plan?
Like instead of mining or harvesting ops, we could concentrate on Refits and inhibitors for a whole plan?
Like instead of mining or harvesting ops, we could concentrate on Refits and inhibitors for a whole plan?
That is true but i suspect the choice will be:
use free dice in HI for power
do not build all stages of alloys
use Tiberium dice for power
If we want to have enough power to do all the plan goals and keep building up our military factories.
It's been ages since I've posted on his thread, but the other planquests I've been on have pretty much dried up, so here I go. Not that I expect any votes, but fuck it, I'm bored.
Resources: 1050
[X] Plan Exercise in Patchwork
-[X] Infrastructure ( 5/5 dice, +36) (90 R)
--[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 10) (87/160) ( 1 dice, 10 R)
--[X] Urban Metros (Phase 4) (0/150) (2 dice, 30 R)
--[X] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) (22/250) (2 dice, 50 R)
-[X] Heavy Industry ( 5/5 dice + E, +33) (160 R)
--[X]Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development (0/120) (1 dice + Erewhon dice, 40 R)
--[X] Aberdeen Isolinear Fabricator (Phase 1) (0/120) (4 dice, 120 R)
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry ( 5/5 dice, +23) (100 R)
--[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) (50/1280) (5 dice, 100R)
-[X]Agriculture ( 6/6 Dice +1 free dice, +28) (90 R)
--[X] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) (315/450) (2 dice, 20 R)
--[X] Poulticeplant Development (0/50) (1 dice, 20 R)
--[X] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 5) (18/140) (2 dice, 20 R)
--[X] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) (26/250) (1 dice+1 free dice, 30 R)
-[X]Tiberium (7/7 dice, +38) (175 R)
--[X] Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 3) (38/200) ( 2 dice, 60 R)
--[X][ ] Improved Hewlett Gardener Process Development (0/160) (2 dice, 40 R)
--[X] Red Zone Energy Refits (0/350) (3 dice, 75 R)
-[X]Orbital (7/7 dice. +33) (150 R)
--[X] GDSS Columbia (3 dice, 60 R)
--[X] GDSS Shala (3 dice, 60 R)
--[X] GDSS Enterprise Bays
---[X] Gravitic Shipyard (0/450) (1 dice, 30 R)
-[X] Services ( 5/5 dice, +31) (95 R)
--[X] Gene Clinics (94/120) (1 dice, 10 R)
--[X] Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories (3 dice, 60 R)
--[X]Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) (213/300) (1 dice, 25 R)
-[X]Military ( 8/8 dice+1 Free dice, +30) (190 R)
--[X] Infernium Laser Refits (0/450) ( 1 dice+1 Free Dice + 2 AA dice, 60 R)
--[X]Modular Rapid Assembly System Prototypes (1 dice, 20 R)
--[X] Railgun Munitions Factories (Phase 1) (142/200) (1 dice, 10 R)
--[X]Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) (0/275) (4 dice, 80 R)
--[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 3) (1 dice, 20 R)
---[X]New Sevastopol (147/180)
-[X]Bureaucracy ( 4/4 dice, +28)
--[X] Administrative Assistance (4 dice) - gives 2 extra dice
Resources: 1050
Expenditure: 1050 (90+160+100+90+175+150+95+190)
* Blue Zone Apartment Complexes as a cheap way to increase HQ Housing
* Urban Metros and Suborbital Shuttle Service to improve Logistics, especially the shuttles for BZ-18
* Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development to develop improved fusion reactors
* Aberdeen to get some Capital Goods production going
* Reykjavik because it's one of three plan goals, it's the cheapest of the three, and it doesn't require Heavy Industry dice which North Boston does. It also produces Capital Goods, and it makes zone armour cheaper, which will be a big deal due to the demand for it.
* Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations because it supplies almost a fifth of the Consumer Goods our plan demands from the Agriculture sector, it's fairly cheap and it gives a bonus to all our dice.
* Poulticeplant because it's a cheap research tech and it will be interesting to see what it offers.
* Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays to increase Food supply, which is dropping fast due to the number of incoming refugees
* Tiberium Processing Plants because it gets us more than halfway to our processing target as part of our plan
* Red Zone Energy Refits because we're always running short of Energy, and I don't want to spend Tib dice on Vein Mining because it will chew even further into our Captial Goods supply
* Even split of construction on Columbia and Shala bcause they are both plan goals, they both need plenty of dice and this is a god way to gain political support.
* Gravitic Shipyard bay because it is a plan goal.
* Finish the Gene Clinics and give the Kanisawa Optical Laboratories a good chance to be completed this turn.
* Infernium Laser Refits to help protect our navy for when we invade and start up Karachi - the Seattle yard for building the Sharks is listed as High Priority but it won't get any hulls into the water until well after Karachi is started.
* Modular Rapid Assembly System Prototypes to keep the Steel Talons satisfied
* Orca Wingman Drones because it's a plan goal and it will improve our naval and land air forces before Karachi - also it needs 4 quarters to start having any effect as opposed to Infernium Laser Refit which will start having an effect 2 turns after it is completed
* Ground Forces Zone Armour to start getting at least some Zone Armour into the field
EDIT; 1 free dice removed from Infernium Lasers, 1 dice+1 free dice added to Agriculture Mechanisation Projects
Resources: 1050
[X] Plan Exercise in Patchwork
-[X] Infrastructure ( 5/5 dice, +36) (90 R)
--[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 10) (87/160) ( 1 dice, 10 R)
--[X] Urban Metros (Phase 4) (0/150) (2 dice, 30 R)
--[X] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) (22/250) (2 dice, 50 R)
-[X] Heavy Industry ( 5/5 dice + E, +33) (160 R)
--[X]Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development (0/120) (1 dice + Erewhon dice, 40 R)
--[X] Aberdeen Isolinear Fabricator (Phase 1) (0/120) (4 dice, 120 R)
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry ( 5/5 dice, +23) (100 R)
--[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) (50/1280) (5 dice, 100R)
-[X]Agriculture ( 6/6 Dice +1 free dice, +28) (90 R)
--[X] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) (315/450) (2 dice, 20 R)
--[X] Poulticeplant Development (0/50) (1 dice, 20 R)
--[X] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 5) (18/140) (2 dice, 20 R)
--[X] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) (26/250) (1 dice+1 free dice, 30 R)
-[X]Tiberium (7/7 dice, +38) (175 R)
--[X] Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 3) (38/200) ( 2 dice, 60 R)
--[X][ ] Improved Hewlett Gardener Process Development (0/160) (2 dice, 40 R)
--[X] Red Zone Energy Refits (0/350) (3 dice, 75 R)
-[X]Orbital (7/7 dice. +33) (150 R)
--[X] GDSS Columbia (3 dice, 60 R)
--[X] GDSS Shala (3 dice, 60 R)
--[X] GDSS Enterprise Bays
---[X] Gravitic Shipyard (0/450) (1 dice, 30 R)
-[X] Services ( 5/5 dice, +31) (95 R)
--[X] Gene Clinics (94/120) (1 dice, 10 R)
--[X] Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories (3 dice, 60 R)
--[X]Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) (213/300) (1 dice, 25 R)
-[X]Military ( 8/8 dice+1 Free dice, +30) (190 R)
--[X] Infernium Laser Refits (0/450) ( 1 dice+1 Free Dice + 2 AA dice, 60 R)
--[X]Modular Rapid Assembly System Prototypes (1 dice, 20 R)
--[X] Railgun Munitions Factories (Phase 1) (142/200) (1 dice, 10 R)
--[X]Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) (0/275) (4 dice, 80 R)
--[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 3) (1 dice, 20 R)
---[X]New Sevastopol (147/180)
-[X]Bureaucracy ( 4/4 dice, +28)
--[X] Administrative Assistance (4 dice) - gives 2 extra dice
Resources: 1050
Expenditure: 1050 (90+160+100+90+175+150+95+190)
* Blue Zone Apartment Complexes as a cheap way to increase HQ Housing
* Urban Metros and Suborbital Shuttle Service to improve Logistics, especially the shuttles for BZ-18
* Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development to develop improved fusion reactors
* Aberdeen to get some Capital Goods production going
* Reykjavik because it's one of three plan goals, it's the cheapest of the three, and it doesn't require Heavy Industry dice which North Boston does. It also produces Capital Goods, and it makes zone armour cheaper, which will be a big deal due to the demand for it.
* Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations because it supplies almost a fifth of the Consumer Goods our plan demands from the Agriculture sector, it's fairly cheap and it gives a bonus to all our dice.
* Poulticeplant because it's a cheap research tech and it will be interesting to see what it offers.
* Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays to increase Food supply, which is dropping fast due to the number of incoming refugees
* Tiberium Processing Plants because it gets us more than halfway to our processing target as part of our plan
* Red Zone Energy Refits because we're always running short of Energy, and I don't want to spend Tib dice on Vein Mining because it will chew even further into our Captial Goods supply
* Even split of construction on Columbia and Shala bcause they are both plan goals, they both need plenty of dice and this is a god way to gain political support.
* Gravitic Shipyard bay because it is a plan goal.
* Finish the Gene Clinics and give the Kanisawa Optical Laboratories a good chance to be completed this turn.
* Infernium Laser Refits to help protect our navy for when we invade and start up Karachi - the Seattle yard for building the Sharks is listed as High Priority but it won't get any hulls into the water until well after Karachi is started.
* Modular Rapid Assembly System Prototypes to keep the Steel Talons satisfied
* Orca Wingman Drones because it's a plan goal and it will improve our naval and land air forces before Karachi - also it needs 4 quarters to start having any effect as opposed to Infernium Laser Refit which will start having an effect 2 turns after it is completed
* Ground Forces Zone Armour to start getting at least some Zone Armour into the field
EDIT; 1 free dice removed from Infernium Lasers, 1 dice+1 free dice added to Agriculture Mechanisation Projects
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[X] Foot off the Mining Pedal Q2 2062, Maximum Chicago
[X] Plan Exercise in Patchwork
I'll approval vote it just because it lacks Alloys!
[X] Plan Exercise in Patchwork
I'll approval vote it just because it lacks Alloys!
- Location
- MSC
TBF, we do have some flex in Tib, so Tib power refits isn't the worst answer. But it isn't a long-term answer, since we only have 3 Phases for +30 Energy.
Liquid Tib power could be the answer, especially if Liquid Tiberium Fabrication will make it better (and maybe it will bring down PS cost).
Honestly, I think we should see Next Gen Fusion. Then we can start long-term planning.
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