Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- Attempting to cast animate object on a black hole.
You know, letting people know what "food" they're in for if they join NOD might actually cut into their recruitment.
trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
"Caloric reclamation processor - It's got nutrients and it's available."
"Is it good?"
"It's got NUTRIENTS and it's AVAILABLE."
"Is it good?"
"It's got NUTRIENTS and it's AVAILABLE."
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
Random question . Do the acrologies not produce their own power?
Strictly speaking, that's where the +1 Energy Reserve came from. A couple years back, we fused the Arcologies and Microgrid generation projects together (increasing the cost of Arcologies by 50 points, but adding the +1 Energy Reserve to it).
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Probably not for sustained operation of the light industry and stuff that goes on inside. They might be able to power the HVAC systems and the elevators, but operations would have to be greatly curtailed.
They're not big enough to fit our giant fusion reactors, and they're not sprawling enough that carpeting them in solar cells actually does enough to power the interior.
The attempt to rush Tendrils Phase 2 kind of ate that slice of the budget, as I recall. I don't blame Derpmind for it one bit, under the circumstances, but I get why you're unhappy.
That may be part of why we're still eating a Logistics malus. Lots of troops forward-deployed in field bases and entrenchments to secure the border; that's inefficient to supply.
Attempting To Be Done By October puts a die on the fortresses. Just saying.
In fairness, so does Roses Too.
By my count, current vote tally is
45 Steak and Tendrils
40 Roses Too
40 Attempting To Be Done By October
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Oledoms
Friesmancer
I think people and voters are a lot more scared of Initiative First 2.0 (Milk and Honey) than with PS loss for mililtary goals. We can blame the last war for a few missed plan goals (hopefully URLS rather than.ASAT or OSRCT) but we have few means of convincing the people why they still do not have high quality food while accepting another 100 million people which would have bad narrative effects if not addressed soon as possible.
While I disagree with Bogatyr on the leading plan since the tech would end up to us anyway and we might end up getting the same tech from Nod Gacha, I am happy enough that ZD Revision and Ranching are completed on Steaks which I voted for.
While I disagree with Bogatyr on the leading plan since the tech would end up to us anyway and we might end up getting the same tech from Nod Gacha, I am happy enough that ZD Revision and Ranching are completed on Steaks which I voted for.
I am very sure that missing our actual recently renegotiated plan goals will politically hurt us more than not doing enough on the food front before the year ends. The biggest consequences of the latter would probably be strict goals in the next plan, the former would seriously damage Treasury's reputation at best, which can have all kinds of adverse consequences.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The thing is, even under a plan like mine, we have the means to pivot and start working on the high quality food issue. We have the means to pivot and work on better housing. And note that one consequence of our aggressive apartment rollouts is that even if we're not getting FOOD BETTER NOW DAMMIT, people are getting better homes and more choices, which isn't insignificant either.
I mean, what, will the minute Ranching Domes completes mean we'll instantly have massive amounts of delicious food for all? There will be no steaks right away, because beef cattle take time to mature and we have to breed the beef cattle before we can even start raising them for slaughter. Even eggs and milk will take time.
Everything takes time to do.
...
Postwar demobilization and recovery cannot be done with a snap of the fingers. If we're afraid that "Milk and Honey" is such a big deal that we need to mash the Ranching Domes button literally this turn, even with a better-than-even chance of a next turn completion, even if it means compromising a bunch of other goals...
I think we are greatly overestimating their power, and greatly under-estimating the power of the Parliamentary majority that put us where we are now.
It's three years until the next election. We've got a long damn time to deal with the quality of life issues while balancing them against the need to meet our commitments to the existing legislature and securing ourselves against tiberium. And Military dice are becoming a tiberium-security issue too, because we need Zone Armor and MARVs to be able to continue grinding down the Red Zones.
...
I think Steak and Tendrils and Roses Too are reacting by swerving away from the newest 'threat' to arise, to the point where it's undermining our ability to remain solidly prepared against the known threats (Nod and tiberium). And I don't think "Milk and Honey" is going to become powerful enough, fast enough, to endanger that.
Anyone remember when it looked like the old-school FMP and Hawk Party were gonna get together, take over the 2056 election on the "where's my quality of life dammit" platform? How the FMP wanted to reinstate neoliberal megacorporate dystopia? How the Hawks were run by the same guy who's running Initiative First now?
Remember how we beat them? How we delivered and actually did materially improve quality of life in a timely manner thanks to the strength of our existing preparations and industrial base?
It's eight in-game years later and we're seeing the same fear repeat itself. We'll beat it. And we'll beat it the same way. We don't need to panic, we just need to clear out our Plan goals and do some good extras with the remaining dice.
@FrozenChosen
@Commandandc
@Shadowward
Sorry for the tag, but if I'm reading the tally correctly, all of you are voters who've supported the Attempting To Be Done By October variant tenchifew created, the one with the Bogatyr die. Just a reminder that I have modified my own version of the plan. It also has a Bogatyr die now, while still doing Interdepartmental Favors.
We're in a fairly close race and we're running out of hours, so if any of you see this message and want a plan like tenchifew's to win, you might want to consider approval voting the modified baseline version of Attempting To Be Done By October. It could make all the difference.
- Location
- USA
I... know?
I was one of the first people voting for it.
I truly hope the October plan wins. I'd rather get the goals done and use freed up dice later than use dice for other stuff now and hope we get goals done later.
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Is that a reference to Russian Badger or something else?
I say it's a Badger reference because he said that when he joked about Little Caesars.
- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
This makes me wonder what the forgotten food culture must be like, because farming in heavy tiberium zones is presumely...hard, never mind the fact that most animals are dead.
Do they crunch on tiberium crystals, does it taste like chicken? Must be an interesting food culture
Do they crunch on tiberium crystals, does it taste like chicken? Must be an interesting food culture
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We have two kinds of projects we really, really want before the end of the year: High-value projects, and mandatory Plan Goals. Your strategy is to try to finish all Plan Goals in Q3, then do high-value projects in Q4. My plan splits things up, aiming to still get as-close-to-certain-as-possible to complete our Plan Goals in Q4 while also completing what high-value projects we can fit in at the same time. To not wait until Q4 to do said high-value projects. (Many of these are time-sensitive and/or produce better results if given time to wind up, like Tendrils, Ranching Romes, Zone Armor, etc.) You have continually been worrying about how tight our Plan Goals are, that we might fail them, and that my plan will put us at more risk of failure...
But you're working towards a drastically different goal than I am. You aim to finish Plan Goals in Q3. When we've been told that to Parliment, there is no difference between finishing a Plan Goal in Q3 and finishing it at the last day in the last hour of Q4. So yes, I'll admit that my Plan makes it less likely we'll finish all of our Plan Goals in Q3. I can't say I particularly forsee parliment getting upset at us for doing so.
Still, let's compare dice on Plan Goals between our two plans. (Disregarding the Consumer Goods requirement, as gaining 6 points there is practically unavoidable.)
Plan Steak and Tendrils
- Industrial Laser 4 dice
- Isolinear 1 die
- Strategic Food Stockpile 1 die
- Extra Large Food Stockpiles 1 Erewhon die
- GDSS Enterprise 7 dice
- Lunar Rare Metals 1 die
- URLS 2 dice
- Escort Carrier 3 dice
- Mastodon 1 die
- Total: 21 dice.
- Industrial Laser 4 dice
- Isolinear 1 die
- Strategic Food Stockpile 3 dice
- Extra Large Food Stockpiles 1 Erewhon die
- GDSS Enterprise 7 dice
- Lunar Rare Metals 1 die
- OSRCT 3 dice
- URLS 2 dice
- Escort Carrier 3 dice
- Mastodon 1 die
- Total: 26 dice
Heavy Industry: 5 dice both.
Agriculture: 2 dice Steak, 4 dice October.
Orbital: 8 dice both.
Military: 6 dice Steak, 9 dice October.
It's a meaningful difference in dice, but not particularly the drastic difference you make it out to be. Especially if you're willing to use Q4's dice to finish, rather than trying to squeeze everything into Q3.
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Right now its the same as GDI as you gave them a bunch of Aquaculture stuff.
That's part of why I supported it: to finish off that project to secure gains made in the war.
Oledoms
Friesmancer
This is why it is best to complete it in Q2 rather than Q4. The faster it is completed, the more it has time for its effect to be felt in the narrative. There is a world of difference in being done in June and being done in December.
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I mean from my end the big difference with your plan is you buy tendrils now instead of slow rolling them. I disagree with that decision.
Comparing dice on plans like this seems to miss the big point from my perspective.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The problem is that "just use the Q4 dice to finish" is risky, because we can't accept a 50% chance or whatever of a project completing.
If OSRCT Phase 4 is still 200 points from completion or whatever when Q4 starts, that's a situation where we can't just throw 2-3 Military dice at it and call it a day. We end up needing to throw at least four.
So being behindhand in fulfilling plan targets now means that six months from now we're going "oh shit" and having to cram extra dice on those projects to be confident of completion... Which means that on net we have less dice to spent total on high-value stuff.
What I'm saying is that I want us to make sure the actual "do our jobs" stuff is well in hand and we can approach it in a calm, confident manner in the closing six months of the Plan, rather than having to run around in circles stressing about how to be sure of finishing things at the last minute.
...
I will also note that the areas where you're spending less dice than me are specifically on the Plan commitment categories that we have the least confidence in completing.
Our remaining challenging Plan commitments fall into three areas: Agriculture (Stored Food), Orbital (Enterprise) and Military (various). Heavy Industry are basically in the bag at this point; we have far more dice than we need to complete them, even without Free dice. The targets in Tiberium (Processing cap) are trivial to fulfill, and anything else will be done as a side-effect of normal operations at this point. But Orbital, Military, and Agriculture are actually coming down to the wire- those are the areas where, for various reasons, we don't have a buffer left. No wiggle room.
So we need to focus on Orbital, Military, and Agriculture.
...
In Orbital our plans are identical. Fair enough.
In Military, well, we've discussed this. I'm spending three more dice on Plan commitments than you now. You're going to have to spend those three dice at some later time, and if you spend them in Q4, it's very likely that they'll balloon to 4-5 dice unless you're prepared to court just straight-up falling short of a Plan target.
In Agriculture, it's the same thing, only the difference is two dice instead of three and there's less risk because you'll only have ONE project to slam out a ton of (granaries) instead of two, three, or even four.
I think putting off those Military and Agriculture Plan goals to the last minute will have consequences. More below.
Sorry, but I'm trying to be outspoken about the reasons I favor my plan, and I was using your comments (which I sympathize with) as a launchpad.
[goes back to drafting one or more tentative variant plans for what happens if each of the three front-runners wins, assuming nothing too surprising in the turn results...]
...I really am convinced we're going to have to do one of the following if Steak and Tendrils wins:
1) Do E-CRP up through Phase 1.
2) Forget any confidence in getting a Zone Armor rollout in 2061.
3) Pick a Plan target to fail- either Stored Food or one of the military ones, probably OSRCT.
I could be pessimistic, I could be missing something, but that's what it looks like. Because doing Phases 4, 5, and 6 of the storehouses and doing 3+ dice of Zone Armor rollouts and doing 9+ dice of OSRCT in the two remaining turns of gameplay after this one will put some pretty tight constraints on our Free dice budget.
Personally I'm gonna vote for E-CRP, even though I know a bunch of people won't like that.
I am worried about one of the concepts of Steak and Tendrils
It depends on getting Tendrils and then
Convincing people to vote for budgets which leave 100 resources in the bank account each turn even as those budgets compete with votes that do NOT save the Resources and thus accomplish more or look neater.
I feel that is impossible
It depends on getting Tendrils and then
Convincing people to vote for budgets which leave 100 resources in the bank account each turn even as those budgets compete with votes that do NOT save the Resources and thus accomplish more or look neater.
I feel that is impossible
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Well in all fairness, that's a separate issue. I respect Derpmind's opinion on that issue, even if my own view is different. I'm not going to tell Derpmind that she's wrong to surge Tendrils Phase 2 instead of slow-rolling it, even if I'm making the opposite approach.
The question of which approach is right depends too heavily on imponderables, mainly Parliament's choices and behavior in the coming reapportionment vote. Derpmind may expect different things to happen there than I do.
Speaking as the person campaigning against Steak and Tendrils right now, I don't think that's a well-founded concern.
We've got 53 dice that can be activated with R, and with Tendrils Phase 2 we'll have a 1220 RpT budget. At that point we're averaging 23 R/die or more, when many of the projects we want to finish (or will HAVE to finish) are still 10-15-20 R/die projects.
I don't think we could spend all that money even if we wanted to, unless we deliberately meme-planned an intentionally suboptimal plan to burn it all up.
I've got a draft of what I'll do if my current plan wins. I've tentatively budgeted 3-4 dice for Ranching Domes in Q3, if people will let me get away with E-CRP. September, not December, in that case.
Otherwise, yeah, December.
Also, remember, the plan you're voting for only has a 42% chance of finishing the domes in Q2. The odds are higher than 50/50 that you're actually comparing a Q3 completion date to a completion date in either Q3 or Q4, depending on exactly how things play out.
But the point is, we're doing quality of life stuff under any plan, even if not specifically and only food stuff.
From my perspective, your argument boils down to "we need to do major luxury food programs right now, not 3-6 months from now but now, to forestall the rise of a hostile political movement that poses as much of a threat to the current political order as the threats that Zone Armor is designed to counter."
And I'm sorry, I'm just not as afraid of 'Milk and Honey' as I am of Nod and the oncoming Red Zones.
May I please suggest you approval-vote the baseline Plan Attempting To Be Done By October?
It also has Bogatyr, and the only die left that was everunactivated is a single Bureaucracy die. And it's several votes ahead of the Bogatyr and all variant, and the leading plan is still several votes ahead of either of us.
So if you want a plan like Bogatyr and all to win, a plan that is almost identical to it and is identical in almost every possible respect, save only for a few details...
Vote for Plan Attempting To Be Done By October!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October with more Bogatyr and all dice activated
[x] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October
"Just keep 100 in reserve each turn" sounded compelling at first, but thinking it through that IS a pretty big ask, voting-wise, and if its compensation for not doing plan goals right now still boils down to "use q4 dice", then I do believe I'm with Simon here.
I'm approval voting "with more Bogatyr" because, well, who knows maybe it'll take the lead somehow, but realistically the only way a plan goals-focused plan is getting through is the vanilla Plan Attempting To Be Done By October. So if you're only going to vote for one plan, please make it that one.
[x] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October
"Just keep 100 in reserve each turn" sounded compelling at first, but thinking it through that IS a pretty big ask, voting-wise, and if its compensation for not doing plan goals right now still boils down to "use q4 dice", then I do believe I'm with Simon here.
I'm approval voting "with more Bogatyr" because, well, who knows maybe it'll take the lead somehow, but realistically the only way a plan goals-focused plan is getting through is the vanilla Plan Attempting To Be Done By October. So if you're only going to vote for one plan, please make it that one.
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Sorry for bothering you, but Simon has in the meantime modified his plan to include Bogatyr as well, so since the voting is extremely close this time around, I want to ask you to consider voting not only for my variant, but for the
[] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October
as well.
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- Location
- New York
[X] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October