Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
Yeah I think sabotage is going to be an ongoing problem for the forseeable future. Some of our largest territorial and population gains have been in Reynaldo's territory, the guy infamous for being a master guerilla that put all his skill points into insurgency and terrorism rather than industrial warfare/statecraft. Just the stay-behind cells and arms caches and whatever else he had setup pre-war are going to keep causing us problems for a long while, before we even get smacked with whatever Kane bullshit he's going to return from his pilgrimage with. We're staring down 100M+ new citizens and even though like 95% of those are going to be productive citizens eventually there's more than enough bad apples slipped in to cause us trouble for God only knows how long. We'll still be stamping out terror cells in Iberia 15 years from now I'm pretty sure.
The Brotherhood being downgraded from "peer state-level power that can fight an open war" to "terror cells that occasionally bomb a rail yard or arcology" is a big win for us, don't get me wrong. But we're settling in for the long haul with a restive population that's not acculturated to GDI society and a fraction of which is actively hostile and wants to murder us all. It's not going to be over over for at least a generation.
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- Location
- Wall Gazing
@Simon_Jester The spare 10 R your plan has could be used to upgrade the Reconstruction Commissions from Aggressive to Maximal. So the question is less about making compromises elsewhere this turn and more about exactly what our income will be like next turn.
Specifically our current income is 985, with 35 reserve. If we complete both the Maximal Reconstruction Commissions and the Resettlement Programs, we will lose 35 of that. However, under your plan our income will increase by 20 from Heavy Metal Mines and by 5 minimum from the Yellow Zone Harvesting. That means our income at the start of the next turn is 975 minimum, with no reserve. Sticking with Aggressive would increase that to 985 minimum, with a reserve of 10.
I personally think the dice we will save from maximizing our reconstruction efforts in the face of the on going war and Reynalo's potential guerrilla campaign is worth having 20 less R at the start of next turn.
Specifically our current income is 985, with 35 reserve. If we complete both the Maximal Reconstruction Commissions and the Resettlement Programs, we will lose 35 of that. However, under your plan our income will increase by 20 from Heavy Metal Mines and by 5 minimum from the Yellow Zone Harvesting. That means our income at the start of the next turn is 975 minimum, with no reserve. Sticking with Aggressive would increase that to 985 minimum, with a reserve of 10.
I personally think the dice we will save from maximizing our reconstruction efforts in the face of the on going war and Reynalo's potential guerrilla campaign is worth having 20 less R at the start of next turn.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Using this as a launchpad more than directly responding to Ithillid, but...Ithillid said:
In the case of the Stored Food target, we could probably get away with a slight modification to the plan, such as needing to hit the target a couple of years later, or just having it be smaller so we didn't have to build like 900 points worth of repositories in the current Plan and also eat up a huge pile of surplus Food we may need to feed our refugees. Like, "+10 Stored Food by 2061Q4, +10 more by 2063Q4" would be a lot easier for us to handle, because it'd give us some time to recover our balance.
Somewhat. We typically get one phase of fusion power from four Heavy Industry dice. Over the course of the next four turns, we will have four less Heavy Industry dice to invest (-16 Energy, because we're gonna be working on fusion plants every turn anyway), but we'll get +12 Energy back. If we roll unlucky on our active efforts, it might take five dice to get that same phase of fusion plants, but only if we're noticeably unluckier than average does it actually break even. We can manage despite the extra costs, but it's a handicap.
The thing is that Karachi isn't the only solution to that problem. After all, the problem was "solved" during Tiberium War III by the expedient of "defeat Nod."
It's entirely reasonable for our plan for relieving BZ-18 to be "okay, after Steel Vanguard dies down, we take 12-18 months, tool up and amass forces to commit GDI's entire military reserve to Operation Break Krukov's Fucking Spine, which will take pressure off BZ-18 and enable us to relieve them from the north."
Also, just the act of strengthening our navy to the point where we can defend a Karachi landing even in theory is going to enable us, if we so choose, to put a lot more pressure on Nod-held India. At which point they have to shift air forces, long range munitions, and attention, if nothing else, to the problem of coastal defense.
Basically, what it comes down to for me is that we really really need to figure out what we can do with the harvester tentacles, and the continuing success of Steel Vanguard has a LOT more to do with our willingness to build railroads and shell factories than it does with our willingness to build tiberium harvesting centers out in the Green Zones. When I'm already committing all of our Infrastructure dice and six of our seven Tib dice to things that specifically support Steel Vanguard (forts, railroads, Indianapolis, and Yellow Zone Harvesting)...
I figure I'm allowed to use the seventh for something else that's really freakin' important in the long run.
Actually, it's likely to have no net effect or make the strain worse, because the Energy return on investment is worse. Averaged out over the long haul, it's effectively equivalent to saying "okay, fusion phases now cost 400 Progress instead of 300, but you are always guaranteed to roll a 51 on the dice whenever you invest dice in them." That's not a great deal, especially right now when we're trying to get maximum amounts of Energy for minimum amounts of dice investment.
I'm in favor of jumping on it as soon as we have enough Energy in hand to cover our surge of wartime requirements from the shipyards and other war factories, and aren't stressing about how we're going to meet our Plan commitment for Capital Goods. Give me 3-4 turns and I will be all over that like scalp polish on Kane.
@Lightwhispers is being more hardcore than I am about slow-walking facilities to avoid wasting dice. I think he takes the principle a little too far, but I respect/get what he's doing. My problem with Plan Phoenix is that it doesn't adhere to this principle for the Firehawk drone factories, instead pushing a full six dice on them to mash the GET IT NOW button (with a bit less than a 2/3 chance of success).
In short, the Air Force gets a rush-priority project done, potentially wastefully, while the Navy gets a funding increase but with trickled funding that imposes delays on achievement of results. The Navy gets four dice, the Air Force gets six, when given which branch of the military is taking more of a pounding lately, it should be the other way around.
I respect the logic, mind you, but frankly, the naval crisis associated with the Regency War won't end until, at least, the first tranche of Sharks hits the water from at least 2-3 of our frigate yards. Even if the Regency War ends on land, it won't end on the sea until we can defend our convoys on the sea... which means either "until we have escort carriers" or "until we have a shitload of frigates."
Nah, the frigates are actually pretty impactful for Karachi.
See, the problem with Karachi isn't that we urgently need a new category of amphibious landing ships for it or something. It's within relatively convenient airmobile range of BZ-4 and we've got the orbital drop troops, so we can just vertical-envelop the shit out of their local forces to get a beachhead.
The problem is that we need a big solid iron fist of naval might in general to protect the ongoing oceanic supply route into Karachi, while also punching Nod-held India hard enough to keep them from having all the initiative in the theater because we have what it takes to hit them. A big old fleetball of our fleet carriers, cruisers, and battleships, supported by frigates, would actually be OK for that, I think. "Offensive Fleet" designs would be good, but not required.
The problem we face right now is that our "Multirole Fleet" combatants (cruisers, battleships, fleet carriers) are so busy running defense that they can't exercise their powers of offensive action. "Defensive Fleet" ships (escort/conversion carriers, frigates) can lighten that load and free up "Multirole Fleet" ships to fight a 'multirole' campaign.
Your math's out of date. Our Heavy Industry bonus is +29, not +15, and that's been true for a long time. So it IS a lot closer to four dice than five.
If you roll 4d100+(4*29) on a 0/300 project, bearing in mind that with omake bonuses you only need to hit a target of 285 to clear the phase...
You have a 79.2% chance of clearing the phase. And you have a better chance of getting the fusion phase with three dice (and having a whole die of rollover to the next phase) than you do of needing five dice.
The realistic mean cost for building a phase of fusion plants from scratch, on average, is four dice and 80 R for +16 Energy. Has been for some time.
With the autofusion project, it's five dice and 50 R for +15 Energy.
...
The autofusion project is much better return on investment in Resources (which are plentiful right now), but worse investment in dice (which are scarce, especially in Heavy Industry).
The autofusion project is a great idea in 2062 after reallocation, when funding all our dice is a big stretch and we need the Energy but can afford to put off investment in any specific Energy-hog projects that require MOAR POWER NAO DAMMIT.
it is a bad idea in 2060 in the middle of a war when we're scraping the bottom of the barrel for every Heavy Industry die we can beg, borrow, or steal because we have a huge Capital Goods commitment to meet and also need like two or three whole phases of extra power plants just to feed all the war factories we're building.
Again, autofusion is Resource-efficient, not Dice-efficient. Right now, dice are the problem, not Resources, so we're not helping ourselves with autofusion.
Because more and more of the Nod forces have shot their bolt and I don't expect them to successfully escalate the damage they can inflict much, and because we really do have a lot of other things we can spend the +RpT on.
A lot of the rebuilding here is things like factories that are optional but not critical to our people's way of life and ability to feed themselves. It's one more priority to balance against others, not "do this or people starve or are miserable."
That said, I'm actually willing to compromise on this point if the budget allows it. Imma go check.
My plan gets us probably two sets of shipyards going this turn and gives us a good angle on getting at least one more yard next turn. I'm not sure we can do a lot better without a massive ANCHORS AWEIGH meme plan that effectively ignores Shell Plants and Firehawk Drones.
That said, I'm actually willing to compromise on this point if the budget allows it. Imma go check.
Yeah, I'm thinking of it.
EDIT:
@Cursix , @Crazycryodude , you got it. Plan now goes whole hog on a 30 RpT reconstruction fund. Cursix, do you like my plan better now?
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[X] Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power
Edit: consolidating posts.
Edit: consolidating posts.
Yeah, it's good. And ignore what I said about the navy, I misread the military section when comparing the two leading plans.
- Location
- The Underdark
I don't get why you are calling it autofusion. Fusion has nothing to do with it. This is dams and solar panels and wind farms. Which is why it is noticeably more resource efficient than building fusion plants, because a solar panel or wind turbine is cheap as chips these days.
- Location
- New England
Yeah, with that fundamental assumption being different, the efficiency increase isn't nearly as good, and I definitely agree with your point about it being more dice-efficient.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Even if we put all of our dice into the shipyards, that wouldn't result in getting more ships in time to help the Navy due to how long it takes to build ships. While the Navy is doing badly, no matter what we do right now we can't directly help them. (Not unless the war continues on into late 2061.) Meanwhile, the drone factories were explicitly designed to be rush-built ASAP. As soon as we complete one it starts helping our Air Force and will rapidly ramp up to full production, and that's important because the Air Force is also taking a pounding in that we're constantly losing our rare and highly skilled pilots every turn. Plus improving the Air Force does help provide more coverage to our naval ships; our naval battles often have response teams flying out to assist.
Basically, GET IT NOW won't work on the Navy, but it will work for the Air Force.
...
For whatever it counts, here's a variant plan that takes two dice off of Naval projects to try and finish the Firehawk Wingmen Drones this turn. No other changes besides that.
[X] Plan MORE POWER + Firehawk Wingmen
Infrastructure 6/6 Dice 95 R
-[X] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 4) 128/325 (3 Dice, 45 R) (92% chance)
-[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 0/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (2/4 median)
-[X] Indianapolis Reconstruction Surge 0/150 (1 Die + 1 Tib Die, 10 R) (82% chance)
Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice + EREWHON 180 R
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 6) 30/300 (5 Dice, 100 R) (98.8% chance)
-[X] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3) 352/600 (3 + E Dice, 80 R) (89% chance)
Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 Dice 110 R
-[X] Medical Supplies Factories 129/225 (2 Dice, 40 R) (95% chance)
-[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1) 0/95 (1 Die, 30 R) (45% chance)
-[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 514/640 (2 Dice, 40 R) (81% chance)
Agriculture 4/4 Dice 40 R
-[X] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 3/300 (4 Dice, 40R) (61% chance)
Tiberium 7/7 Dice 140 R
-[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 9) 2/325 (5 Dice, 100 R) (99% chance)
-[X] Harvesting Tendril Development 0/40 (1 Die, 30R) (100% chance)
-[X] Indianapolis Reconstruction Surge 0/150 (1 Die + 1 Infra Die, 10 R) (82% chance)
Orbital 6/6 Dice 120 R
-[X] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2+3) 145/385 (6 Dice, 120 R) (99.99% chance of Phase 2, 2.3% chance of Phase 3)
Services 5/5 Dice 80 R, -5 RpT
-[X] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 122/160 (1 Die, 20 R) (100% chance)
-[X] Automatic Medical Assistants 0/300 (1 Dice, 20 R) (1/4 median)
-[X] Mind Shields Development 0/120 (2 Dice, 40 R) (92% chance)
-[X] Expand Resettlement Programs (automatic)
Military 8/8 Dice + 4 Free Dice 220 R
-[X] Shell Plants (Phase 6) 7/150 (2 Dice, 20 R) (72% chance)
-[X] Firehawk Wingmen Drones 0/450 (6 Dice, 120 R) (63% chance)
-[X] Merchantman Carrier Conversions (High Commitment) 150/200 (1 Die, 20 R) (92% chance)
-[X] Shark Class Frigate Shipyard (Melbourne) 0/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (2/4 median)
-[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Battleship Yards) 0/120 (1 Dice, 20 R) (22% chance)
Bureaucracy 4/4 Dice, -20 RpT
-[X] Allocate Resources to Reconstruction Commissions (Maximal, -30 RpT)
-[X] Request Reduction in Plan Commitments (3 Dice) (99.5/94.0/77.2/49.2% chance of successive DC's)
Honestly that's fair, I get focused on min-maxing the war effort but 85% of the Tiberium sector being singlemindedly dedicated to supporting the offensives is already an absurd ratio so tossing one die at R&D isn't something I can really argue against in good faith.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[blinks]
My apologies, I got confused, and I won't be making that mistake anymore. Sorry.
You misunderstand me.
My prediction is that the naval war won't end at the same time the land war does, and certainly won't end just because GDI's Steel Vanguard offensives end. In a normal war against a normal nation-state opponent, ending the land war and ending the naval war would necessarily go hand in hand. But when this war 'ends,' we'll just revert to the same state of lower-level warfare we've been at against Nod for the last 65 years.
The Nod naval raiding factions- the more piratical warlords, or the big warlords that have a navy as a part of their forces- will have enjoyed a great deal of success and will have every reason to keep at it. They'll just keep accruing prestige and a reputation for being the toughest opponent for GDI to overcome. As a symptom of this, I suspect that when Steel Vanguard finally grinds to a halt in, oh, 2060Q3, Q4, 2061Q1, whatever... Bintang will just be all like "Oh, you think the Regency War's over? That's cute. You're cute. I fail to see why that means I should stop kicking your asses, though."
In short, Nod's naval harassment will go on until stopped by force. This will not and cannot happen until the current wave of shipyards starts turning out ships. So while the shipyards will not support Steel Vanguard, and cannot make a 2061 Karachi Sprint possible, without them, we will continue to experience defeat at sea. Because Nod's naval forces are under no obligation to throw in the towel just because their land forces are battered and bruised.
This bumps up the priority for shipyards, in my opinion.
This is a fair argument. My main problem is that if we really want to be confident of getting Firehawk drones in one turn, six dice isn't even enough; we need like seven to kick the odds up high enough. 2/3 chance is good and all, but it's not usually what we accept when we're seriously rush-buying a project. And seven dice feels really excessive.
Besides, I honestly expect the Steel Vanguard offensives to be petering out on the ground before Firehawk drones are available in decisive numbers, simply because "fast rollout" is more like "six months" and not like "six weeks" unless I'm mistaken.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The only reason Bintang is able to do these raids is because GDI is distracted by the global war. If Bintang continues her offensives after the other warlords button down, GDI's undivided attention will be able to retaliate in force. She'd be an idiot to make herself a target like that; even with our current Navy, with a full concentration of effort and support from all our other branches we very much could attack Bintang in her home fortresses and knock her down a peg.
I very much expect that when the rest of Steel Vanguard winds down, Bintang will be forced to go back to "situation normal" like everyone else.
Like everything else, it's a compromise. Six dice isn't perfect, but it's good enough considering all the other things we need dice on. The Plasma Warheads, for example, would likely have a significant effect on the Air Force as well, but it's hard to pull even a single die for them.
As for the rollout-
I'd expect our Apollo drones to be at full production by the end of this turn. If we finish the Firehawk drones this turn, that means they'll start to take full effect during Q4.
@Simon_Jester Ah... it's getting late for me here, so I'm just gonna throw this out there: Since you want to do the Firehawk drones over two turns, why not switch the fourth die off of the Firehawks and put it on the Plasma Warhead Factory? It'll only take one die, and unlike the drones it should roll out immediately; similar to how last turn the Tactical Airborne Laser Deployment took effect immediately that turn. It won't delay getting the Firehawks done since we'll be at 3/6 median dice, but it will get something out for the Air Force right away. It'll even save 10R, if that matters.
I like MORE POWER and still prefer it out of the leading two, but on a purely narrative level I kinda want Erewhon's first big action on the world stage to be more resonant than helping us make construction robots faster. I still fully support the current version of MORE POWER but also want to suggest a version where Erewhon's die goes towards assisting with the refugee crisis instead of getting Nuuk 3 a turn earlier. This frees up 20R and a Services die to double our investment in Automated Medical Assistants as well, while still maintaining a 54% chance that we get Nuuk 3 completed this turn. I don't think it's strictly mechanically better or worse but if nothing else "AI helps war refugees, freeing up personnel and resources to accelerate the modernization of healthcare" is a way better propaganda headline.
[X] Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power
[X] Plan MORE POWER While Erewhon Plays Refugee Tetris
-[X] Infrastructure 6/6 Dice 95 R
--[X] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 4) 128/325 (3 Dice, 45 R) (92% chance)
--[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 0/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (2/4 median)
--[X] Indianapolis Reconstruction Surge 0/150 (1 Die + 1 Tib Die, 10 R) (82% chance)
-[X] Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice 160 R
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 6) 30/300 (5 Dice, 100 R) (98.8% chance)
--[X] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3) 352/600 (3 Dice, 60 R) (54% chance)
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 Dice 110 R
--[X] Medical Supplies Factories 129/225 (2 Dice, 40 R) (95% chance)
--[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1) 0/95 (1 Die, 30 R) (45% chance)
--[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 514/640 (2 Dice, 40 R) (81% chance)
-[x] Agriculture 4/4 Dice 40 R
--[X] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 3/300 (4 Dice, 40R) (61% chance)
-[X] Tiberium 7/7 Dice 140 R
--[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 9) 2/325 (5 Dice, 100 R) (99% chance)
--[X] Harvesting Tendril Development 0/40 (1 Die, 30R) (100% chance)
--[X] Indianapolis Reconstruction Surge 0/150 (1 Die + 1 Infra Die, 10 R) (82% chance)
-[X] Orbital 6/6 Dice 120 R
--[X] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2+3) 145/385 (6 Dice, 120 R) (99.99% chance of Phase 2, 2.3% chance of Phase 3)
-[X] Services 5/5 Dice + EREWHON 100 R, -5 RpT
--[X] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 122/160 (1 Die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[X] Automatic Medical Assistants 0/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (2/4 median)
--[X] Mind Shields Development 0/120 (2 Dice, 40 R) (92% chance)
--[X] Expand Resettlement Programs (EREWHON) (automatic)
-[X] Military 8/8 Dice + 4 Free Dice 220 R
--[X] Shell Plants (Phase 6) 7/150 (2 Dice, 20 R) (72% chance)
--[X] Firehawk Wingmen Drones 0/450 (4 Dice, 80 R) (4/6 median)
--[X] Merchantman Carrier Conversions (High Commitment) 150/200 (1 Die, 20 R) (92% chance)
--[X] Shark Class Frigate Shipyard (Melbourne) 0/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (2/4 median)
--[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Battleship Yards) 0/120 (2 Dice, 40 R) (87% chance)
--[X] Heavy Support Laser Development 0/50 (1 Die, 20 R) (90+ % chance)
-[X]Bureaucracy 4/4 Dice, -20 RpT
--[X] Allocate Resources to Reconstruction Commissions (Maximal, -30 RpT)
--[X] Request Reduction in Plan Commitments (3 Dice) (99.5/94.0/77.2/49.2% chance of successive DC's)
---[] -18 PS, leaves us 72-28 = 44 PS to negotiate with, plus hopefully +10 from the kudzu plantations with a little luck
[X] Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power
[X] Plan MORE POWER While Erewhon Plays Refugee Tetris
-[X] Infrastructure 6/6 Dice 95 R
--[X] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 4) 128/325 (3 Dice, 45 R) (92% chance)
--[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 0/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (2/4 median)
--[X] Indianapolis Reconstruction Surge 0/150 (1 Die + 1 Tib Die, 10 R) (82% chance)
-[X] Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice 160 R
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 6) 30/300 (5 Dice, 100 R) (98.8% chance)
--[X] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3) 352/600 (3 Dice, 60 R) (54% chance)
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 Dice 110 R
--[X] Medical Supplies Factories 129/225 (2 Dice, 40 R) (95% chance)
--[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1) 0/95 (1 Die, 30 R) (45% chance)
--[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 514/640 (2 Dice, 40 R) (81% chance)
-[x] Agriculture 4/4 Dice 40 R
--[X] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 3/300 (4 Dice, 40R) (61% chance)
-[X] Tiberium 7/7 Dice 140 R
--[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 9) 2/325 (5 Dice, 100 R) (99% chance)
--[X] Harvesting Tendril Development 0/40 (1 Die, 30R) (100% chance)
--[X] Indianapolis Reconstruction Surge 0/150 (1 Die + 1 Infra Die, 10 R) (82% chance)
-[X] Orbital 6/6 Dice 120 R
--[X] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2+3) 145/385 (6 Dice, 120 R) (99.99% chance of Phase 2, 2.3% chance of Phase 3)
-[X] Services 5/5 Dice + EREWHON 100 R, -5 RpT
--[X] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 122/160 (1 Die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[X] Automatic Medical Assistants 0/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (2/4 median)
--[X] Mind Shields Development 0/120 (2 Dice, 40 R) (92% chance)
--[X] Expand Resettlement Programs (EREWHON) (automatic)
-[X] Military 8/8 Dice + 4 Free Dice 220 R
--[X] Shell Plants (Phase 6) 7/150 (2 Dice, 20 R) (72% chance)
--[X] Firehawk Wingmen Drones 0/450 (4 Dice, 80 R) (4/6 median)
--[X] Merchantman Carrier Conversions (High Commitment) 150/200 (1 Die, 20 R) (92% chance)
--[X] Shark Class Frigate Shipyard (Melbourne) 0/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (2/4 median)
--[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Battleship Yards) 0/120 (2 Dice, 40 R) (87% chance)
--[X] Heavy Support Laser Development 0/50 (1 Die, 20 R) (90+ % chance)
-[X]Bureaucracy 4/4 Dice, -20 RpT
--[X] Allocate Resources to Reconstruction Commissions (Maximal, -30 RpT)
--[X] Request Reduction in Plan Commitments (3 Dice) (99.5/94.0/77.2/49.2% chance of successive DC's)
---[] -18 PS, leaves us 72-28 = 44 PS to negotiate with, plus hopefully +10 from the kudzu plantations with a little luck
- Location
- Reno
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power
[X] Plan MORE POWER While Erewhon Plays Refugee Tetris
[X] Plan MORE POWER While Erewhon Plays Refugee Tetris
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
[X] Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power
[X] Plan MORE POWER While Erewhon Plays Refugee Tetris
[X] Plan MORE POWER + Firehawk Wingmen
I like the higher naval commitment in this one.
[X] Plan MORE POWER + Firehawk Wingmen
I like the higher naval commitment in this one.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
@ramdomperson , unless I'm missing something, the naval commitment in "Refugee Tetris" is literally identical to the naval commitment in my baseline "But No Tiberium Power" plan. Why not approval-vote for mine if that's your main motivation?
(disclaimer: Cryodude's plan also does not contain tiberium power, none of the leading plans do, the name is a legacy of a much earlier phase of planning)
I actually thought about doing this myself, but there's a problem.
Erewhon... isn't great with people.
Erewhon tends to rant about how horrible the world is and how we're all gonna die and why were we so reckless and cruel as to bring a poor fragmentary AI into the world when we're all gonna get eaten by green rocks and die.
Now, even if Erewhon isn't actually doing anything specifically public-facing, I'm pretty sure that "handle the refugee stuff" means Erewhon will, on some level, be interfacing with a bunch of civilian bureaucrats and potentially politicians who want to speak with and engage with this mysterious synthetic entity that is deciding the fate of millions. There will be conversations. These conversations may not inspire faith in the stability, sanity, and competence of Erewhon's refugee-handling, even if the results are (officially) very positive.
By contrast, if Erewhon is working on Nuuk, most of Erewhon's human interactions will be with the sort of human who volunteers to work on a robot factory in Greenland.
In the spirit of "walk before you can run," I'm thinking I like that second idea better.
Mindful of the fact that you may not see this for a while, I still want to reply.
Put it this way. I'm pretty sure Bintang won't continue large surface operations against us unless she sees very good openings. But she has effectively no incentive to shut down submarine warfare, and for that matter even if we did, we don't know who the submarines are from. It's entirely possible that a bunch of different Nod factions, or even a completely unknown warlord based out of some area we haven't got detailed information on (West Australia, for instance, or just plain underwater) is doing a lot of the raiding.
Furthermore, Bintang's location actually makes us hitting her kind of difficult. The centers of her strength are far enough away from the nearest Blue Zones that bringing them under intense air attack is difficult, and trying to push in on her with naval strength is a nonstarter for all the same reasons that we can't do Karachi. And there's no way to get at her forces via a ground attack.
Stahl, now, is in pretty much the position you describe. If we're no longer even trying to seriously fight Nod at full force on other continents around South America, we can theoretically drown Stahl in so much materiel that not even his admitted tactical genius can hold us off. Because no matter what damage he did in his recent strikes, our bases are still right there and protected by so many layers of fortifications that he can't wipe them out to stop our capacity to reinforce from overseas from becoming a threat. Unlike Bintang, he can't really stop our forces from getting to grips with him
I think Bintang may scale back operations a bit, but even if she does, Nod as a whole has no incentive to dial back naval raiding and attacks substantially until and unless they actually start losing enough tonnage to make the experience of trying to raid us punishing. Which is, at this point, a big part of why I am supporting rapid shipyard rollouts, because I don't expect our humiliations at sea to end until we have enough heavy iron to force the humiliations to stop. And people are going to blame us more and more directly for those humiliations if we don't take industrial action.
Full production doesn't mean full effect. It just means that the full stream of drones we were planning to build are hitting the front lines. It doesn't mean "every Firehawk pilot, or even most, have a wingman yet. We'll see the impact of the drones in the specific areas where they are being deployed most intentionally, and that'll matter, but it's going to take quite a lot of time for the rollout to reach every frontline aviation unit.
That's... actually interesting. I'm honestly tempted.
Does anyone object? I might go ahead and do that- switch the fourth Firehawk Drones die to a Plasma Missiles die- if no one objects.
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
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Based off the Q2 map, I've made a rough edit showing where the tactically/strategically-relevant sites for our planned/unbuilt MARV hubs are - i.e. the Yellow Zone hubs; BZ hubs are strategically relevant but their placement doesn't really matter for the purposes of this, and RZ sites are too isolated.
Some observations, depending on where the next planned advances are and how they go - this is largely assuming that GDI takes territory running out toward these sites. In rough order of priority:
- YZ-13 hubs should be a priority to cut off West Africa from sea access. If the next Steel Vanguard push is to get the coasts this is an excellent way to fortify that; if we can encircle that theatre, they're in for a bad time.
- Then YZ-14, to keep pressing Mehretu and make it that much more difficult for him to get at Madagascar. It's a little far from our lines though.
- YZ-12 hubs are important, but realistically those aren't happening until after the war; Stahl can and will kick the shit out of us for trying, otherwise.
- YZ-9 is probably a relatively 'easy' build if we wanna bully Mondragon; it's within easy bombardment range from air and we can keep the gulf buttoned up pretty well with hydrofoils.
- YZ-18 is a maybe, depends if we're pushing into Russia more; right now it's too far ahead of the lines to risk, I think.
- YZ-7 reinforces Adelaide but is probably not strictly necessary; while it could theoretically anchor a push up the Yellow Zone, the problem we're having there is logistics, not heavy metal.
- YZ-15 is likewise nice to have but less useful considering Reynaldo's group is transitioning to insurgency; it's not a terrible choice but IMO there are better ones right now.
- YZ-3 could be useful to "bully" Yao if she wants an excuse to not be fighting us; otherwise it's not a priority and it's not really worth the risk that she might take a swipe at the landing.
- YZ-6 if we do it should be after YZ-7 and/or we finish rolling up Eastern Aus to our satisfaction; even if the Australian Brotherhood is a walkover there's no real sense in opening up a second front while we're still dealing with the first.
The "Fuck No" category:
- YZ-16 is Caravanserai turf (freshly conquered this quarter in fact), so we can and should leave it be. The less we interfere with them right now, the less awkward of a position they're put into - while we can hold our ceasefire, if we start going for their stuff they have two options. Either they don't stop us, and rumblings of 'treachery' and 'collusion' start going around (including among Isfahani's faction, who otherwise have been sitting this one out), or they're obliged to break the ceasefire and go after us.
- YZ-1 and to a lesser extent 2, 4, and 5 are fully "here be dragons" territory - we shouldn't be just wildly firing those off. YZ-1 we don't want to poke until we get a better read on the India situation, and the rest is all in Bintang's funtime water park.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The real problem here, sadly, is that we just don't have the Military dice to spare on doing much in the way of MARV construction. 
- Location
- USA
That honestly sounds like a good idea. It gives the airforce some extra punch right now while still hopefully knocking out half of the wingmen. I support this.
Another problem is that we've been told the MARVs are becoming obsolete. At this point it might be better to putting military dice on talon projects that might deliver the next generation of MARVs. Not now of course but in the future.The real problem here, sadly, is that we just don't have the Military dice to spare on doing much in the way of MARV construction.
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
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That's the kind of thinking that got us into this mess. Stop waiting for a magic bullet innovation when there's otherwise a perfectly good product available.
The Super MARV isn't obsolete, just aging. It's still a platform that is difficult for Nod to counter, and it can still do its job. Meanwhile, if the opportunity arises that a MARV hub becomes a useful move to deploy, it's a waste of the opportunity if we delay because "what if we wait to deploy the Mark 2 MARV."
- Location
- USA
That wasn't the actual problem. The problem was we weren't factoring in the several year build up time involved in the navy.
If it was any other branch we did what we did with the navy it wouldn't have been anywhere near as big of a issue.
And being told something is becoming obsolete just means it might not be a good plan to invest that heavily in them. I'm not sure we need to invest in more MARVs at the moment instead of buffing up the navy, air force, and the talon projects in our plan.
I'd even rather do the zone armor factories first. They've been wanting those for years.