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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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tenchifew said:
Good point.
The Scrin faction encountered in CnC being the equivalent of a single Rogue Trader in 40k actually makes a lot of sense, and would explain why they could be beaten in the first place. It also opens a lot of, mostly terrifying, possibilities.
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If I remember correctly Ilthid has said in the thread that the Scrin we encountered where basically a mining group, which kind of makes me nervous for when we encounter an actual Scrin military force with their military grade weaponry.
 
uju32 said:
WoG is that its an energy tech, not a learn to handle Liquid T tech.
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There seem to be a misunderstanding on my part. I mean T cell is the first step in Tib energy research. Personally I want it developed after we have some breathing room, for its potential usage in fusion energy. Yes there is a risk, but it's not gonna be another red zone risk. Our harvesting operation used liquid T. That Australia Liquid T research must be Tib bomb big to be that destructive. IE liquid T need a force of a Ion cannon to activate, and Nod can't even do that. I feel the research is pretty safe. But than again that Kane Wrath mission ,and Kane monologue in TW about needing the ion cannon contradict each other somewhat
 
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Pertuarbo101 said:
If I remember correctly Ilthid has said in the thread that the Scrin we encountered where basically a mining group, which kind of makes me nervous for when we encounter an actual Scrin military force with their military grade weaponry.
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I know the cancelled Tiberium FPS was supposed to have Scrin infantry swarming through Threshold Tower 19. But again, there's no way to tell if the planned 'invasion' was intended to be an organised military, or just some bossman drugged up of green coke hurling miners and thugs through the portal.
 
tenchifew said:
Good point.
The Scrin faction encountered in CnC being the equivalent of a single Rogue Trader in 40k actually makes a lot of sense, and would explain why they could have been beaten in the first place. It also opens a lot of, mostly terrifying, possibilities.
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The Scrin commander of the invasion of Earth's title? Was just Foreman 371.

Given the implications of Thresholds, and the length that the Scrin traveled to reach Sol- I'm pretty positive that the Scrin have a singular government. The ability to point to point teleport across vast interstellar distances as well as the evidenced centralized Tib processing facility the Scrin call Ichor Hub. Especially with demonstrated Scrin focus on centralized command and supply chains (the network hub that sustained the invasion).
 
Karugus said:
The Scrin commander of the invasion of Earth's title? Was just Foreman 371.

Given the implications of Thresholds, and the length that the Scrin traveled to reach Sol- I'm pretty positive that the Scrin have a singular government. The ability to point to point teleport across vast interstellar distances as well as the evidenced centralized Tib processing facility the Scrin call Ichor Hub. Especially with demonstrated Scrin focus on centralized command and supply chains (the network hub that sustained the invasion).
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But than again it was a very armed mining operation. You don't name your mining people reaper nor traveler if you are not armed. I expect the Scrin force in TW to be a kin to Private military contractors level of armed. So I expect the Scrin military to have the same weapon grade as the mining force. Think of PMC using AR 15, which the military also Use. But I expect the real military would have "Tank" and "Jet".

That mean while we are not cosmic horror screwed, we are basically Zulu screwed
 
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DAOT said:
But than again it was a very armed mining operation. You don't name your mining people reaper nor traveler if you are not armed. I expect the Scrin force in TW to be a kin to Private military contractors level of armed.
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The 'British East India Company' of interstellar warcrimes seems like a safe middleground between the options that the first invasion was just a gang of randoes, or that is is all orchestrated by Scrin Imperial High Command.
 
Yeah the Scrin we met did seem to have some actual weapons, not just repurposed mining hardware, so I doubt they were totally fly-by-night. Being the equivalent of a PMC with light infantry and some humvees sent to go open up a new cobalt mine on the frontier would make sense though, they definitely had trained killers with purpose-built killing tools among their ranks but we didn't see the real heavy hardware that the Imperial Navy can bring to bear or whatever.
 
Calantyr said:
The 'British East India Company' of interstellar warcrimes seems like a safe middleground between the options that the first invasion was just a gang of randoes, or that is is all orchestrated by Scrin Imperial High Command.
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That make a lot of sense, explain the reason why the Scrin did not invade yet. IRL The UK did not give rat ass on what the BEIC were doing, but would not let India fall. So by that logic the next invasion would also be the "BEIC Scrin", but if we repelled that expect the real Scrin military
 
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A routine 'Foreman' led mining operation with a 'Reaper' detachment to deal with any possible remnants of any local civilizations and a 'Traveler' group to oversee Threshold construction/further mining site locating.

Also, do correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't all the Scrin unit names given them by Humans?
 
DAOT said:
But than again it was a very armed mining operation. You don't name your mining people reaper nor traveler if you are not armed. I expect the Scrin force in TW to be a kin to Private military contractors level of armed.
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The implication is that Reaper-17 and Traveler-59 are iterative sect of a larger organization amongst the Scrin. Reaper-17 is literally stated to be the 17th sect of the 'Cult of the Reaper'. Likewise Traveler-59's human/scrin 'hybrids' are called Cultists.

I don't think those were PMCs. I think that was a militarized group of the Scrin equivalent to the Westboro Baptist Church and a decadent mystery cult taking the opportunity to play with a lesser race of sapients before we were wiped out.
 
DAOT said:
That make a lot of sense, explain the reason why the Scrin did not invade yet. IRL The UK did not give rat ass on what the BEIC were doing, but would not let India fall. So by that logic the next invasion would also be the "BEIC Scrin", but if we repelled that expect the real Scrin military
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There's also that tidbit of C&C lore that Tiberium is d3liberately engineered to be as useful as possible, so that native species get addicted to it before realising just how dangerous it is. So Scrin deliberately try to get their victims hooked on the stuff.
Not completely dissimilar to how the BEIC tried to get China addicted to opium.
 
Calantyr said:
There's also that tidbit of C&C lore that Tiberium is d3liberately engineered to be as useful as possible, so that native species get addicted to it before realising just how dangerous it is. So Scrin deliberately try to get their victims hooked on the stuff.
Not completely dissimilar to how the BEIC tried to get China addicted to opium.
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That had more to do with China only accepting payment in silver and the British only having so much silver to trade, so they sold opium, a highly desired good in China, to get more silver to buy tea with.

No, the Europeans didn't care it wrecked Chinese society with the opium trade.
 
Calantyr said:
There's also that tidbit of C&C lore that Tiberium is d3liberately engineered to be as useful as possible, so that native species get addicted to it before realising just how dangerous it is. So Scrin deliberately try to get their victims hooked on the stuff.
Not completely dissimilar to how the BEIC tried to get China addicted to opium.
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Seem more like a bad side effect to me. If Tib were landed 50 year earlier we would be dead, and the Scrin happy
 
DAOT said:
But than again it was a very armed mining operation. You don't name your mining people reaper nor traveler if you are not armed. I expect the Scrin force in TW to be a kin to Private military contractors level of armed. So I expect the Scrin military to have the same weapon grade as the mining force. Think of PMC using AR 15, which the military also Use. But I expect the real military would have "Tank" and "Jet".

That mean while we are not cosmic horror screwed, we are basically Zulu screwed
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Karugus said:
The implication is that Reaper-17 and Traveler-59 are iterative sect of a larger organization amongst the Scrin. Reaper-17 is literally stated to be the 17th sect of the 'Cult of the Reaper'. Likewise Traveler-59's human/scrin 'hybrids' are called Cultists.

I don't think those were PMCs. I think that was a militarized group of the Scrin equivalent to the Westboro Baptist Church and a decadent mystery cult taking the opportunity to play with a lesser race of sapients before we were wiped out.
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Been a few months/couple of years since I poked the Kane's Wrath Campaign InfoFiles. But I'm 90% certain what they said is that the Traveler and Reaper Sects are basically serving the role of PMC for the mining operation that is the main group of Scrin. Why?

Because they're something like a smaller sub-group of wider religious movements that have certain goals for the surviving 'Primitives' on planets the mining groups seed for later harvesting. Reapers being interested in slaughtering and terrorizing them, hence why they're closer to actual military forces than the normal Scrin in how strong their units are. More focus on up close engagements as well, thus the lack of heavy air units.

The Travelers? They're interested in improved co-opting, subverting and maybe even getting new allies/integrated species for the Scrin. Hence the abundance of mind control that's one of their focuses.

So yes, this strongly suggests that one of the main methods the Scrin use to gain new tiberium is seeding planets containing advanced planetary civilisations, though probably not anything that's started to develop extensive orbital infrastructure. Which we with only one space station and a massive satellite network would count as even today, let alone a similar but slightly deviated 1995 humanity.

One of the main reasons for why they choose those, other than a potential Dark Forest scenario, is that those advanced planetary civilisations are advanced enough to rapidly work out how to break down Stage 1 Tiberium Crystals to harvest the concentrated useful minerals they contain. Remember, at this stage the crystals are basically crystalised high purity ore from whatever vein was below where the seed of tiberium was planted. Just with some annoying contaminates that aren't initially known how to remove them.

Kane allowed humanity to shortcut the research process, but it wasn't anything not expected by the Scrin for humanity to develop. After all, it's only after humanity works out how much cheaper this makes mining that humanity spreads the initial 'safe' tiberium all over the planet just waiting for the mutation timer to trigger...
 
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DAOT said:
Seem more like a bad side effect to me. If Tib were landed 50 year earlier we would be dead, and the Scrin happy
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True enough. It's probably just a parallel influencing the writers, instead of a main point intended to flesh out the universe.
If I recall correctly, Westwood and EA were sort of making up the plot as they went. It's remarkable how well it all came together.
Shame they never made another game after C&C3. I wish I knew how the story ended.
 
uju32 said:
Catalyst tech, otoh, worked against the Scrin. And you can lob it via longrange missile.
If the Scrin were unable to shield Tiberium against adverse external interference, I do not plausibly expect the Brotherhood to manage it. Or GDI for that matter. And the Brotherhood use Tiberium much more extensively.

Therefore, Catalyst tech in GDI hands is an existential threat to Nod, in a way that the loss of currentgen stealth tech is not, and this is unlikely to be a gacha candidate.
Thats my opinion anyway.
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Forgive me for picking this argument but we were just reminded of the following:
Pertuarbo101 said:
If I remember correctly Ilthid has said in the thread that the Scrin we encountered where basically a mining group, which kind of makes me nervous for when we encounter an actual Scrin military force with their military grade weaponry.
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So, allow me to reframe the Catalyst Missile as something similar real world has.

EMP.

It's similar in that EMP fucks over anything and everything electronic that isn't specifically hardened against it, and Catalyst fucks over anything and everything Tiberium (except maybe anything specifically hardened against it).

And as someone working in space industry I can assure you that people don't bother with shielding against EMP or cosmic radiation unless they have reason to think they need to. That limits the use of such technology to military and yes, spacecraft - because they have the need to worry about it.

The invading aliens were supposed to come to a nice Tiberiformed planet complete with Liquid Tiberium, and more importantly, devoid of native life.

A glorified PMC at best, on a supposed milk run. And I expect that like humans, they would not harden their hardware against Catalyst because it's an unwarranted expense and isn't expected besides.

(Nobody expects Kane and Tacitus data cache).

In summary - I believe that Catalyst missiles working against these particular Scrin does not mean it is impossible to defend against Catalyst missiles. It only means that this particular group of Scrin didn't have hardened hardware to protect against it.

And that in turn means that it might be possible for GDI to develop this technology.

I would even go so far as to say that this kind of technology, something that prevents Tiberium from going critical and exploding even in the presence of a catalyst, may be a possible puzzle piece for bootleg TCN.
 
Calantyr said:
True enough. It's probably just a parallel influencing the writers, instead of a main point intended to flesh out the universe.
If I recall correctly, Westwood and EA were sort of making up the plot as they went. It's remarkable how well it all came together.
Shame they never made another game after C&C3. I wish I knew how the story ended.
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For all it fault C n C 4 main beat is pretty good. Kane "alliance" with GDI. With both side trying to a mass power to fight each other some time in the future. And with the ending of Kane leaving earth via the Scrin tower.
 
Would anyone mind too much if I did a breakpoint in approximately two hours? If that does not work for people, that is very okay, but I feel like I should check.

Edit: If @Darkandus @HousePet want to roll, they can.
 
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[X] Plan Running the Eyewall v. 4.7
[X] Plan Feet First Into Hell Tiberium
[X]Plan A Bucket to Hold All This Power Mk.5
[X] Plan Fixing the Backend
 
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