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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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Alright this is late and probably already talked about, but I still want to give my two cents before putting up my vote while making a ranked vote:

Ithillid said:
Current‌ ‌Economic‌ ‌Issues:‌ ‌
Housing:‌ Limited ‌Surplus‌ ‌(+9)‌ ‌ (31 population in low quality housing) (1 points of refugees)
Energy:‌ Major ‌Surpluses‌ ‌(+15)‌ ‌(+2 in reserve)
Logistics:‌ Limited ‌Surpluses‌ ‌(+4)‌ ‌
Food:‌ Major ‌Surpluses‌ ‌(+21)‌ ‌(+8 in reserve)‌ ‌
Health:‌ Steadily Improved ‌(+9)‌ (4 consumed by emergency refugee healthcare) ‌
Capital‌ ‌Goods:‌ Significant ‌Surplus‌es ‌(+6)‌ ‌
Consumer‌ ‌Goods:‌ Significant Surpluses ‌(+30)‌ ‌(+5 from private industry)
Labor:‌ Significant ‌Surpluses‌ ‌(+30)‌ (+4 per turn) ‌
Tiberium‌ ‌Processing‌ ‌Capacity‌ ‌(1520/1720)‌ ‌
Yellow‌ ‌Zone‌ ‌
Water:‌ Notable ‌Surpluses‌ ‌(+6)‌ ‌
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We have only 1 Point of Refugees now instead of 2 which means that 5 Arcologies will do the work just fine of unfucking all the Low Quality Housing. Should do Yellow Zone Fortress Towns soon after completing the Arcologies.

Health also seems to be suffering from still only 4 Consumption which means that a 20 surplus will be more easily reached. Guess I don't need to rush Blue Zone Light Industry.

Labor is now at +4 people. So we can get it to +6 with prosthetics when we deploy them.

Ithillid said:
[ ]Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 1)
With GDI struggling against the massed wave of incoming refugees, high efficiency, and high quality housing is still an ongoing demand. Apartment complexes, while not quite what the people actually want, are a far cheaper option than the arcologies, and are quite high quality.
(Progress 188/160: 10 resources per die) (-1 Logistics, +6 Housing)
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Uh @Ithillid? I calculated this as 208/160 here:

Dmol8 said:
Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 1) 0+15+67+46+60 = 208/160 (Phase 2) 48/160 -1 Logistics +6 Housing
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what did I miss that resulted in there being 20 less progress?

Ithillid said:
The Initiatives as implemented began with community drive sign ups for qualifications self reporting, followed by tests and training programs. These tests are, for the most part, skills based, aimed to determine who is already up to Initiative's standards. Overall, known and suspected former members of the Brotherhood of Nod have scored reliably well. They often do not know the precise mechanisms or systems of GDI procedures, but do know the principles and many will only nee a few weeks at most of on the job communications instruction before they can be considered fully qualified.
The regular men and women however are significantly less broadly skilled, with most only knowing one or two procedures and how to work a particular set of machines. These are being given specialist certifications, as a prelude to being educated for more general certification. While they can be gainfully employed, it will be far more difficult to move them around, and they are at risk of near permanent unemployment due to improving automation. However, at least for now, they can be assigned to jobs, and can aid the Initiative.
Beyond tests however, there are educational programs. Many of the results are being fed into GDI's educational systems, and not only will these tests provide a surge of skilled labor immediately, they are laying the groundwork for a steady influx of labor over the coming years and potentially decades.
Additionally, many of their children have attempted to sign up for testing, and after some bureaucratic kerfuffle, they have been allowed to take the tests. While their skills were not as complex or as complete as the adults, some do show noticeable technical talent, likely trained into them as part of yellow zone life.
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Error spotted:

but do know the principles and many will only need a few weeks at most of on the job communications instruction before they can be considered fully qualified.

Ithillid said:
The attack on Hackett has InOps in something of a tizzy. Seeing potential threats in every shadow and every corner, they have rampaged through the services department like bulls in a china shop, requesting ream after ream of documentation from everyone from the highest management to individual teachers and line workers. Throwing themselves into the work of searching for security threats to reassure themselves that they are in control and can counteract the Brotherhood of Nod.
However, their search, no matter how spirited, has shown little in the way of results. Little to nothing has been found. While there are some handful of low placed Brotherhood Humint assets in the department that have been arrested and imprisoned, that is the extent of what the InOps search teams have been able to turn up.
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That Mythbusters episode that busted the bull in a china shop myth/saying never happened in this timeline?

MonkeyTypewriter said:
Its inevitable though. There are economies of scale benefits to large companies.
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:Citation Needed:
Cause last I checked the economies of scale large companies use are based in market monopolies, not actual multi-participant markets.

BelligerentGnu said:
I cannot parse this sentence for the life of me.
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It's mostly empty platitudes about how GDI's next political setup will depend on Treasury projects that get done in the meanwhile, but still will be a multi-party system and how this poster from the Treasury will go out to vote, but for whom is none of your business.
 
[X] Plan I will get off this rock and take you with me

Philly pls. I'd really like to get the whole thing complete by election day, expand Parliament as much as we can. Maybe Philly 5 will finally let us hit the target ratio of 1 MP to 100k citizens. And beyond the enfranchisement concerns we just need those roll bonuses ASAP. +7 free points on every die is hundreds of free progress every turn, I really don't like leaving it on the table for any longer than absolutely necessary and 3 dice on Philly doesn't feel like it's moving fast enough for me.
 
Oh well, as much I'd like to focus on other things , I don't want to get there through the blood of miners and zone troopers.

[X] Plan All Into Mil

[X] Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM)
 
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[x] Plan All Into Mil
[x] Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM)

I want that second glacier phase more than I do more harvester factories, ngl. Zocom plan isn't perfect but it has good priorities.
 
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I am going to assume in this that literally every Tiberium income option actually passes.
And there are no oopsies with the dice.
BOTcommander said:
Spaaaaceplan

[X] Plan I will get off this rock and take you with me
-[X] Infra 4/5 dice 55R
--[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) 154/300 1 die 10R (1/2 median)
--[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 548/650 3 dice 45R 99% (3/10 median Stage 3)
-[X] Heavy Ind 4/4 dice 80R
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 2) 22/300 3 dice 60R 11%
--[X] Automated Civilian Shipyards 139/250 1 die 20R 21%
-[X] L&CI 0/4 dice
-[X] Agri 0/3 dice
-[X] Tiberium 6/6 dice 130R
--[X] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 11) 46/130 2 dice 50R 98% (13% Stage 12)
--[X] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 11) 30/180 2 dice 60R 63%
--[X] Railgun Harvester Factories Albany 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
--[X] Railgun Harvester Factories Porto 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
-[X] Orb Ind 5/5+6 dice 75R
--[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 100/715 8 dice 160R 16%
--[X] Nanotube Hull Panelling Development 0/30 1 die 5R 95%
--[X] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 5) 79/135 2 dice 20R
-[X] Services 4/4 dice 70R
--[X] Green Zone Teacher Colleges 0/200 1 die 5R (1/3 median)
--[X] Remedial Education Program Expansions 0/120 1 die 5R 12%
--[X] NOD Research Initiatives 124/160 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Scrin Research Institutions 328/350 1 die 30R 100%
-[X] Military 6/6 free dice 180R
--[X] Shimmer Shield Development 0/60 1 die 20R 74%
--[X] Backpack Rocket Launcher Development (New) 1 die 10R
--[X] Hydrofoil Shipyards (Busan-Ulsan) 69/85 1 die 10R 100%
--[X] Naval Defense Laser Refits (New) 0/330 3 dice 30R
-[X] Bureau 3/3 dice
-[X] Lobby For Establishment of Negotiation Corps (New) 3 dice 91%
590R/590R 6/6 Free Dice
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Minimum: 70R
Maximum: 110R

4 out of 6 Tiberium dice have a less than 80% chance of success at their assigned option
Derpmind said:
[X] Plan All Into Mil
-[X] Infra 4/5 dice 55R
--[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) 154/300 1 die 10R (1/2 median)
--[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 548/650 3 dice 45R 99% (3/10 median Stage 3)
-[X] Heavy Ind 4/4 dice 80R
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 2) 22/300 2 dice 40R (2/4 median)
--[X] Automated Civilian Shipyards 139/250 2 dice 40R 80%
-[X] L&CI 0/4 dice
-[X] Agri 0/3 dice
-[X] Tiberium 6/6 dice 130R
--[X] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 11) 46/130 2 dice 50R 98% (13% Stage 12)
--[X] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 11) 30/180 2 dice 60R 63%
--[X] Railgun Harvester Factories Albany 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
--[X] Railgun Harvester Factories Porto 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
-[X] Orb Ind 5/5 dice 75R
--[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 100/715 3 dice 60R (3/9 median)
--[X] Nanotube Hull Panelling Development 0/30 1 die 5R 95%
--[X] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 5) 79/135 1 die 10R 69%
-[X] Services 4/4 dice 70R
--[X] Green Zone Teacher Colleges 0/200 1 die 5R (1/3 median)
--[X] Remedial Education Program Expansions 0/120 1 die 5R 12%
--[X] NOD Research Initiatives 124/160 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Scrin Research Institutions 328/350 1 die 30R 100%
-[X] Military 6/6 +6 free dice 180R
--[X] Wartime Factory Refits (Phase 2) 52/90 1 die 20R 91%
--[X] Shimmer Shield Development 0/60 1 die 20R 74%
--[X] Sonic Mobile Artillery Vehicle Development 0/40 1 die 10R 94%
--[X] Tube Artillery Deployment 0/200 3 dice 45R 55%
--[X] Hydrofoil Shipyards (Busan-Ulsan) 69/85 1 die 10R 100%
--[X] Naval Defense Laser Refits (New) 0/330 5 dice 75R 52%
-[X] Bureau 3/3 dice
--[X] Lobby For Establishment of Negotiation Corps (New) 3 dice 91%

590R/590R 6/6 Free Dice

Might as well post this. Again, all our Free Dice into military projects. Opens up a critical ZOCOM-supporting project next turn while aiming to clear four deployments this turn, including Wartime Factory Refits. Also does things like work on more Energy, upgrade our Harvesters, make progress in Space, etc.

Note that I'm still quite willing to edit this plan going by feedback; if it picks up votes I'll try to iron out whatever small changes would make it better.

Approval voting for Plans that do a ZOCOM project:

[X] Plan Logistics, Tiberium and Expansion
[X] Plan I will get off this rock and take you with me
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Minimum: 70
Maximum: 110

4 out of 6 Tiberium dice have a less than 80% chance of success at their assigned option.
Void Stalker said:
[X] Plan Logistics, Tiberium and Expansion
Infra 5/5 60R +21
-[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) 154/300 3 die 30R 95%
-[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 549/650 2 dice 30R 91%
HI 4/4 80R +16
-[X] Automated Civilian Shipyards 139/250 3 dice 40R 98%
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 2) 22/300 1 die 20R
LCI 2/4 20R +11
-[X] Security Review 1 die
-[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 2) 1/160
Agri 2/3 20R +11
-[X] Security Review 1 die
-[X] Wadmalaw Kudzu Development 0/40 1 die 20R 92%
Tiberium 6/6 135R +24
-[X] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 11) 46/130 1 dice 25R 56%
-[X] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 11) 30/180 3 Dice 90R 96%
-[X] Railgun Harvester Factories (Albany) 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
-[X] Railgun Harvester Factories (Maputo) 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
Orbital 5/5 85R +9
-[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 100/715 4 dice 80R
-[X] Nanotube Hull Panelling Development (New) 0/30 1 die 5R 95%
Services 4/4 70R +16
-[X] Green Zone Teacher Colleges (New) 0/200 1 die 5R 0%
-[X] Remedial Education Program Expansions (New) 0/120 1 die 5R 12%
-[X] NOD Research Initiatives 124/160 1 die 30R 100%
-[X] Scrin Research Institutions 328/350 1 die 30R 100%
Military 6/6+2 free 115R +13
-[X] Shimmer Shield Development 0/60 1 die 20R 74%
-[X] Sonic Mobile Artillery Vehicle Development 0/40 1 die 10R 94%
-[X] Naval Point Defense 0/330 5 dice 75R 52%
-[X] Hydrofoil Shipyards 69/85 1 die 10R 100%
Bureau 3/3+4 free +11
-[X] Security Reviews (LCI) 2 dice +1 LCI 98%
-[X] Security Reviews (Agri) 2 dice +1 Agri 98%
-[X] Lobby For Establishment of Negotiation Corps (New) 3 dice 91%
Free 6/6
4 bureau, 2 mil
Idle Dice: 3
585/585 + 5 reserve
Hitting key points while also making sure we do not run short on energy or logistics
Right- first without more logistics we will be down to +1 from the next glacier stage so heavy push on shipping yards to fix that and cover the 4th glacier next turn. Next putting some effort into energy because those railgun harvest factories will drain it quickly, combined with the last hydrofoil taking 6 energy by itself. Taking advantage of some low cost projects to have few idle dice (down to 3!) and finishing up the nod and scrin research.
Mil- push PD fairly hard, finish up hydrofoil and work on shimmer shield for station defense plus other use. I am expecting to be able to drop more free dice in the mil category next turn thanks to 40-60 from glacier (98%), 10-20 rz harvest (56%) and 2 railgun factories for +5 each (70% each).
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Minimum: 60R
Maximum: 90R

3 out of 6 Tiberium dice have a less than 80% chance of success at their assigned option.
sunrise said:
We have zone armor factories building suits by hand fixing that is a higher priority than keeping a capital goods reserve.
The new Orca's will provide support to ZOCOM and fly of the existing fleet carriers

[X] Plan Wartime Factory Refits and orca's
Infra 5/5 60R +21
-[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) 154/300 3 die 30R 95%
-[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 549/650 2 dice 30R 91%
HI 4/4 80R +16
-[X] Automated Civilian Shipyards 139/250 2 dice 40R 80%
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 2) 22/300 2 dice 40R
LCI 1/4 0R +11
-[X] Security Review 1 die
Agri 1/3 10R +11
-[X] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 2) 1 die 10R
Tiberium 6/6 135R +24
-[X] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 11) 46/130 1 dice 25R 56%
-[X] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 11) 30/180 3 Dice 90R 96%
-[X] Railgun Harvester Factories (Albany) 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
-[X] Railgun Harvester Factories (Maputo) 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
Orbital 5/5 75R +9
-[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 100/715 3 dice 60R
-[X] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 5) (Final) 79/135 1 die 10R 69%
-[X] Nanotube Hull Panelling Development (New) 0/30 1 die 5R 95%
Services 4/4 70R +16
-[X] Green Zone Teacher Colleges (New) 0/200 1 die 5R 0%
-[X] Remedial Education Program Expansions (New) 0/120 1 die 5R 12%
-[X] NOD Research Initiatives 124/160 1 die 30R 100%
-[X] Scrin Research Institutions 328/350 1 die 30R 100%
Military 6/6+4 free 155R +13
-[X] Wartime Factory Refits (Phase 2) 52/90 1 die 20R 91%
-[X] Shimmer Shield Development 0/60 1 die 20R 74%
-[X] Naval Point Defense 0/330 5 dice 75R 52%
-[X] Orca Refit Deployment 0/200 2 dice 30R 9%
-[X] Hydrofoil Shipyards (Busan-Ulsan) 69/85 1 die 10R 100%
Bureau 3/3+2 free +11
-[X] Security Reviews (LCI) 2 dice +1 LCI 98%
-[X] Lobby For Establishment of Negotiation Corps (New) 3 dice 91%
Free 6/6
4 bureau, 2 mil

585/585 + 5 reserve
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Minimum: 60R
Maximum: 90R

3 out of 6 Tiberium dice have less than 80% chance of success at their assigned option.


Again, I reiterate that the minimum and maximum numbers all assume that we roll very well on the Tiberium dice. Because almost none of the plans here actually invests enough dice for overflow on our income generation.Every plan above invests half or more of our Tiberium dice into sub-80% chance of success options, so they could all very easily suffer performance issue with increasing income.

COMMENTARY
We need money.

Our first six to nine months are supposed to be dedicated to getting us up to 700ish so we can activate all our dice.We only have a brief window before we have to once again deal with the Tiberium mutation clock by years end, and ee have a whole shitton of expensive projects to address, from Inhibitors to new Warship classes.

The fact that pretty much all of the plans on display are wasting that opportunity in order to pursue pet projects is profoundly disappointing. The fact that they are all so dismissive of the necessity to overflow at income to prevent dice fuckery is surprising, since we have all been victim of loldice rolling anomalously low.

I would like to hit Karachi next year
To finish Philadelphia II and start building Frigates and Escort Carriers.
I do not see how we can do that if we are still scrabbling over our budget because we failed to optimally use the time.

Literally one plan here votes for dual Glacier despite our getting a discount for building them.
And despite ZOCOM telling us they can handle another five or so.

********
VOTE
[X] Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM)


Minimum 90R.
Maximum 165R.
1 out of 6 Tiberium dice has a less than 80% chance of success.

Im not entirely happy with this.
But it takes our income issues seriously, and doesnt assume that things will just work out, compared to all the rest.
 
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uju32 said:
COMMENTARY
We need money.

Our first six to nine months are supposed to be dedicated to getting us up to 700ish so we can activate all our dice.We only have a brief window before we have to once again deal with the Tiberium mutation clock by years end, and ee have a whole shitton of expensive projects to address, from Inhibitors to new Warship classes.

The fact that pretty much all of the plans on display are wasting that opportunity in order to pursue pet projects is profoundly disappointing. The fact that they are all so dismissive of the necessity to overflow at income to prevent dice fuckery is surprising, since we have all been victim of loldice rolling anomalously low.

I would like to hit Karachi next year
To finish Philadelphia II and start building Frigates and Escort Carriers.
I do not see how we can do that if we are still scrabbling over our budget because we failed to optimally use the time.

Literally one plan here votes for dual Glacier despite our getting a discount for building them.
And despite ZOCOM telling us they can handle another five or so.

********
VOTE
[X] Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM)


Minimum 90R.
Maximum 165R.
1 out of 6 Tiberium dice has a less than 80% chance of success.

Im not entirely happy with this.
But it takes our income issues seriously, and doesnt assume that things will just work out, compared to all the rest.
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I do think we're getting kind of complacent on the income front now that we're back up to 590 RpT or so. That's good but it doesn't even get us back to where we were before re-allocation, and we have more dice now than we did then. I'm not saying "ignore ZOCOM" or "ignore this" or "ignore that," but we really do need to establish a strong baseline that lets us power through the rest of the Plan.

[X] Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM)

This is a plan that does a lot for our Resource income, putting us in a very strong position to do whatever we like next turn, including ambitious military investment without having to sweat so much about where we'll get the funds to do 15 R/die projects from.

Although, @AntiSanity , if it was me, I'd flip the "Sonic Artillery" die in Military for the "Zone Trooper Backpack Launchers" option. Slightly higher development cost, but less likely to force us to build a couple of major new factories to get the project open, and thus less likely to interfere with the plan to develop and roll out the Havoc.
 
Hazard said:
It's a tube. Casting hollow tubes isn't that hard a concept.

I mean, you obviously can't cast the entire thing at once, there's a fair bit of machinery that goes into a modern artillery piece that needs to be able to move, but the tube?

High quality steel, possibly with a separate internal barrel liner holding the rifling.
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TripleTango said:
I was given to believe that the properties of any given steel are dependent on its crystal structure, which in turn is reliant on its heat treatment and working--and that casting from molten steel is conducive to neither.

I could believe casting a rough hollow tube and working/heat treating it as required, but not casting and going straight to final boring.

But I'm no metalworker, so I can't say for certain.
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:facepalm: I just. I'm someone who has gone to university to study materials engineering. It is possible to fully cast a canon out of proper rifled steel. But possible does not mean probable or useful.

Put simply casting a barrel of a gun fully in one go is doable. Casting it rifled is also doable, but why do it? Like Keep It Simple Stupid is effect here. Yes you can cast a rifled barrel, but it is much simpler to cast a blank barrel a little thicker and then rifle it and recycle the shavings in the next batch, than it is to put in all the bits on the inside of the barrel to get it cast rifled and then have to pull those bits out and not damage the rifling at the same time.

The former is heavier than the latter, but we can't make the latter on an industrial scale without some sort of nanite lubricant.
 
[X] Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM)

I would like to note that "Plan Heavy Income" is far behind the leading plans. If you want it to win, it would take quite a few people voting for it exclusively to give it a fighting chance. If people simply approval-vote for it along with other leading plans, it loses.

"Heavy Income" is basically unique in that it still actually attempts to do two rounds of glacier mining, whereas all the other leading plans abandon this ambition. This is after last turn when we did the same thing and only completed one round of glacier mining. Most of the other plans will be doing well, as far as I can tell, to get us to the mid-600s in income.

And that means we're still in a fairly tight position, because we have 43 non-Bureaucracy dice to roll, and it takes 645 R/turn just to get them all active to the tune of 15 R/die. Which isn't really enough, because we have a LOT of 20 R/die and higher projects that need doing, and there aren't a lot of compensating 10 R/die projects to balance them out.

Want to be able to throw all the Free dice at Military and spend liberally on things like MARVs, stealth detectors, OSRCT, and Ground Forces zone armor? We need to push past the mid-600s.

Want to be able to hit our station targets? We need to push past the mid-600s.

Planned cities? Those ambitious food storage projects? Large scale myomer factories? Nuuk? Again, we need to push past the mid-600s, or doing any of those things will entail robbing Peter to pay Paul on a large scale in our budget.

Personally, I'm not gonna be happy until we get up to 800+ Resources per turn, at which point we can have more of our dice than not on 20 R/die projects if we so choose.

...

I will also note that "Heavy Income" puts five dice on the Philadelphia, so as far as SPAAACE plans go it is at least more or less a serious attempt to pursue station expansion. Some of the competing plans cannot say the same.
 
Just for reference, as of this writing, the tally stands at

All into Mil
34 votes

I will get off this rock
23 votes

Logistics, Tiberium, Expansion
20 votes

All into Mil, Diplomacy edition (superseded)
12 votes

Wartime Factory Refits and Orcas
12 votes

Heavy Income with Factory Refit
11 votes
 
Dmol8 said:
:Citation Needed:
Cause last I checked the economies of scale large companies use are based in market monopolies, not actual multi-participant markets.
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Citation: Fixed costs exist.

Some examples:
Transport costs - it's frequently more economical to transport multiple units in one go, because so much power goes to moving the mass of the vehicle, not the product.
Warmup costs - machines need electricity, and employees need wages, when performing the startup and shutdown procedures that bookend literal production.
Legal costs - getting a workplace certified as producing to spec requires a minimum of time and effort by a professional inspector regardless of size.
 
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