Or something broadly similar. What I am more doubtful of is the ability of these planetary defense centers to actually project power or force themselves into being strategic locations.
A planetary defence centre with a large shield generator can be used to project a dome covering vital industries and power plants. You build them next to things the enemy wants to take on a planet, namely the industrial and population centres. With VTOL aircraft or catapult equipped hangars it can launch air strikes anywhere its strikecraff can reach. With railgun artillery it can abuse enemy forces at any range it likes. Hell, fit a big enough railgun or 2 and you can have it threaten ships either via LOS fire or by abusing orbital mechanics to hit them from the other side of the planet.

Station a sizeable garrison in one and plenty of supplies and you could hold until reinforced. Specifically, a division with enough supplies for at least a month of heavy fighting would do you well.

No sane opponent would leave something like that unmolested.
 
Aactualyyyyy... what if ion canons aren't particle beams, but macron accelerators?

It would explain their stupendous range, and ions are involved in the process of accelerating the macrons.

Edit: Ion cannon might be like saying firearm - fire is involved but it's not what actually does the damage.
I mean, it's a fascinating link- but I doubt it. Given the description, macrons would probably vaporize from atmospheric friction, and we know that GDI likes to use their ion cannons for orbital strikes.
Quite so, but remember the comforting mantra: if the enemy is in range, so are you. The Scrin most assuredly have reactionless drives, and it's reasonable to suppose that any future alien invader will too. But then again, so do we.
I mean, I'm not sure, I think it's implied somewhat that Scrin are extra galactic given the cutscene for Scrin arriving zooms in from beyond the Milky Way, and upon the Foreman escaping pans back beyond the Milky Way. There is also the fact that the Scrin mining expedition could build devices to create weaponized wormholes with similar ease to humans deploying nuclear weapons. To say nothing of the stasis tech, the phasing out of reality tech, and the speed at which they built 19 threshold towers. I have no idea what we might find out in the galaxy, but I'd be surprised if the Scrin weren't significantly more advanced.
 
Or something broadly similar. What I am more doubtful of is the ability of these planetary defense centers to actually project power or force themselves into being strategic locations.
Oh quite so. Unless they can be used to house something dangerous to an attacking fleet (massive fuckoff beam cannons, swarms of starfighters or missile batteries), they are of limited value.

But there are precedented means to create such installations in the game, rather than it being merely impossible, I would say.

Also vulnerable from orbit. The GDI end mission for Firestorm permitted the use of ion cannon strikes on CABAL's facilities, otherwise protected from all other forms of attack through firestorm defense barriers. Because of this, it's very likely that the barrier systems have a maximum height.

The Ion Disruption Field Generators are specific to ion weaponry, but how exactly they function is unknown. As is whether or not GDI can somehow deal with the forcefield that blocks ion cannon strikes other than the destruction of the generators. If nothing else, the fact that the generators are implied to be specific to ion cannons means that they can be trumped with a kinetic impactor or laser.
Yes; these are both imperfect defenses. On the other hand, they're also defenses created entirely with the technology GDI and Nod already had before Tib War III, so they are at most hints about what is and is not possible.

The Threshold Towers are phased out of reality and protected that way, how much that is a force field instead of reality not responding properly is uncertain. GDI actually managed to destroy at least one that was already phased out of reality by destroying the external phase generators protecting it. If we can't destroy Threshold 19, it's because we can't physically get at the equipment keeping it out of phase, not because our orbital weapons don't work.
You're not wrong, but at the same time, a method of rendering a large facility immune to orbital bombardment is a method of rendering a large facility immune to orbital bombardment. Threshold 19 is invulnerable, or it isn't, and if it is, then it's an example of rendering a planetside installation functionally immune to attack from space.

The point I'm trying to get at is that we have no specific reason to assume that it isn't feasible in this setting to create groundside fortresses capable of repelling heavy assaults from space. There are multiple examples throughout all the 21st century setting games of facilities being so heavily shielded that massive ordnance barrages simply bounced off, up to and including orbital bombardment or weapons of mass destruction. The fact that these shielding systems usually had exploitable weaknesses or were specific to particular modes of attack may simply mean that people need to up their game.

If that is what people want to do, I am happy to facilitate to the best of my ability
I'm a little concerned about the number of mini-sidequests in this single thread cluttering up and choking out discussion of the main quest, and making it relatively less accessible to people who aren't participating in the sidequests. It's manageable with just CarterQuest, and two miniquests may work out okay, but it's gonna get crowded in here at some point.

Because they do have to fit around your regular update schedule, and there's only so much room unless you slow down dramatically to make space for them, which has its own problems.

I mean, I'm not sure, I think it's implied somewhat that Scrin are extra galactic given the cutscene for Scrin arriving zooms in from beyond the Milky Way, and upon the Foreman escaping pans back beyond the Milky Way. There is also the fact that the Scrin mining expedition could build devices to create weaponized wormholes with similar ease to humans deploying nuclear weapons. To say nothing of the stasis tech, the phasing out of reality tech, and the speed at which they built 19 threshold towers. I have no idea what we might find out in the galaxy, but I'd be surprised if the Scrin weren't significantly more advanced.
I dunno. We have no idea what is and isn't relatively easy to accomplish; we've only been working on tiberium-based tech in-game for roughly fifty years.

By comparison, consider what people did and didn't know about what electromagnetic forces were capable of fifty years after the first wave of major discoveries and understanding circa 1820. By the 1870s a lot of the theory was in shape, but the practical implications were still very much vaporware. Telephones and electric lighting were something people were prototyping with mixed success, wireless radio was barely imagined, and the staggering implications of the transistor logic circuit were still the better part of a century in the future.
 
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I dunno. We have no idea what is and isn't relatively easy to accomplish; we've only been working on tiberium-based tech in-game for roughly fifty years.

By comparison, consider what people did and didn't know about what electromagnetic forces were capable of fifty years after the first wave of major discoveries and understanding circa 1820. By the 1870s a lot of the theory was in shape, but the practical implications were still very much vaporware. Telephones and electric lighting were something people were prototyping with mixed success, wireless radio was barely imagined, and the staggering implications of the transistor logic circuit were still the better part of a century in the future.
Fair, but we're also not sure how many people actually have tiberium based tech or tiberium to play with. The Scrin considered a viable civilization surviving a liquid tiberium explosion unprecedented, and its implied that the Scrin seeded Earth with tiberium in the first place.

We know the Tacitus wasn't created by the Scrin, or at least GDI considered it to be a warning of the threat the Scrin posed according to Kane- so there's someone out there who knows about the Scrin and tiberium- but the Tacitus is ancient so who knows where its makers are now. We also know that the Scrin databases recognized Kane, but that the Scrin were in large part fixated on learning more about him. This just drives home how much more we need to learn to be properly informed.
 
I'm a little concerned about the number of mini-sidequests in this single thread cluttering up and choking out discussion of the main quest, and making it relatively less accessible to people who aren't participating in the sidequests. It's manageable with just CarterQuest, and two miniquests may work out okay, but it's gonna get crowded in here at some point.

Because they do have to fit around your regular update schedule, and there's only so much room unless you slow down dramatically to make space for them, which has its own problems.
If I get too many major subsquests, I will start asking the creators to spin them off into their own threads. Two in this thread is about my limit for sanity's sake. One to have its voting between me calling and the results update, and the other to have its voting period between when I post the results and the next turn beginning.
 
Given that I did not expect this to survive to the first elections, let alone midway through the second Four Year Plan, I will absolutely take mission creep for a thousand.
...I'm sorry, I meant to say "I have concerns over mission creep strangling what has been a perfectly fine quest so far, please do not overexert yourself, and also I think myself funnier than I am."
 
Anyone who disagrees with me is Literally Hitler: A brief guide to modern political discourse (noncanon)
Anyone who disagrees with me is Literally Hitler: A brief guide to modern political discourse

Q: Okay, so what's this about?

A: I'm glad you asked! This is an attempt to help people confused about a phrase that's been thrown around a lot during this election cycle.

Q: Sure. Where do you want to start?

A: At the beginning.

Q: Fine, I'll bite. Just who was this Hitler character?

A: Adolph Hitler was the Reichskanzler (Chancellor of the Realm) of Germany prior to and during World War 2.

Q: And how is some guy who's been dead for a century relevant to the political landscape of GDI elections?

A: He's not.

Q: Really?

A: Yes, really.

Q: No relevance at all?

A: None whatsoever!

Q: Okay... but if he's not relevant, why are so many people calling each other Hitler?

A: Ah, that's the crux of it all. There's a difference between Adolph Hitler, the historical figure, and Hitler, the myth. The former is just some guy who's been dead for more than a hundred years, it doesn't matter to anyone alive today if he shot himself or if the Human Torch incinerated him before he could press the fireproof button to set of a bunch of explosives meant to destroy Berlin rather than see it conquered or if he put on a power armor with dual miniguns before being killed by Office of Secret Actions agent B. J. Blazkowicz or if he fled to South America with the remnants of the Thule Society to create a vampire army before being killed by the remaining survivors of the Order of the Dragon... Anyway, you get the spirit. The historical Hitler has been dead for a century. He is nothing but dust.

Q: What about the Hitler Myth?

A: As the very partial list above might have given you an idea of, Nazis make incredibly convenient villains for popular culture. The nazis has been fought by adventure archeologists, vampires, supersoldiers, regular soldiers, witches, angels, demons, and so forth. Nazis have been fought in Europe, in Africa, in Asia, in North America, in South America, in the vast tunnel network that runs under every continent, in space, in Atlantis, throughout time itself!

Q: Okay, so people have killed a ton of nazis in fiction, what does that have to do with politicians calling each other names today?

A: Because pop culture nazis have so completely eclipsed the historical nazis that they have rendered the latter irrelevant. The only people who cares about boring stuff from a hundred years ago like the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei 25-point Programme are stuffy historians and the Archives and History Department (but I repeat myself :p). Meanwhile, there are only two things you need to know about the pop culture nazis and how they work with political debates.

Q: What are the two things we need to know about pop culture nazis and how they work with political debates?

A: It's very simple:
  1. The nazis were bad.
  2. The nazis would have agreed with the people you disagree with.
Q: That's it?

A: That's it.

Q: That can't be very conductive to political debates.

A: That's not a question, but you're right. Then again, why would you want to have a debate with someone when they are Literally Hitler?

Q: What if I believe that people should sort out their disagreements with reasonable dialogue?

A: Then you are a tiny minority of the population. And also probably Literally Hitler.

Q: What if I don't want to be Literally Hitler?

A: Then you should stop holding political views that would align with Hitler.

Q: How do my political views align with Hitler?

A: I don't know, but let's find out. Give me an example.

Q: What if I support the Starbound Party?

A: Then you see yourself as Ubermenchen who wants to abandon your genetic inferiors to die on a Tiberium-infested Earth while you rule space as Literally Space Hitler.

Q: The Hawks?

A: You're actually called Militarists now. Also, you don't want weapons to see use against Nod, you want them used to suppress and murder your political opponents. You know, because you're Literally MARV Hitler.

Q: Socialists?

A: Like Starbound, but replace space with arcologies because you are Literally Arcology Hitler.

Q: Initiative First?

A: Like Starbound and Socialists, but replace space and arcologies with Blue Zones, you wretched Literally Blue Zone Hitler.

Q: Okay, I think get the picture. So all of this going around and calling people Hitler is just a way of telling people that you don't like their ideology?

A: No. You're getting closer, but that's far to optimistic.

Q: Optimistic? How come?

A: You're forgetting about the pop culture nazis.

Q: Huh?

A: Remember, pop culture nazis are an absolute evil. Something to be a receptacle for hatred and attacked with violence and whose just destruction should be celebrated by all properly thinking people.

Q: Oh no... I don't like this picture.

A: You shouldn't.

Q: So calling people Literally Hitler isn't saying that you disagree with their ideology, it's telling them that their ideology is evil?

A: Close, but still not far enough. Telling people that they are Literally Hitler is shorthand for "Your ideology is an absolute evil that must be rooted out to the point of utter destruction and the only interaction anyone should have with people who think like you is to condemn them without debate because even trying to reason with followers of such a terrible way of thinking only risks spreading ideological corruption to others."

Q: That's a horrible thing to say! Why do people do it?

A: Because trying to understand people who thinks differently from you is hard. Condemning them for thinking differently from you is easy.

Q: I don't like having my political views dismissed by people calling me Literally Hitler.

A: No one does.

Q: Is there any escape from people calling each other Literally Hitler?

A: You mean besides not engaging in politics?

Q: Yes, besides not engaging in politics?

A: Probably not. Getting people to do the right thing rather than the easy thing is a problem much older than Hitler. It's the oldest problem humanity knows.

Q: Is there no hope then?

A: I didn't say that. There's always hope, as long as enough of us agree to one simple thing.

Q: What is that?

A: To be kind and understanding with other people.

Q: That's it?

A: That's it.

Q: Sounds easy enough.

A: No. It's simple, not easy. If it was easy, then everyone would be doing it. It's easy to understand and be kind to people you agree with, doing the same to those who want things to be done differently from you is hard. But it's important.

Q: Even the assholes?

A: Especially the assholes.

Q: Why is that especially important? They're assholes.

A: Not to them. To them, you're the asshole, and unless you learn to understand them, that's all you'll ever be.

Q: That does sound reasonable. Where should I start?

A: Don't call people Literally Hitler. They're not. Not even the politicians.
 
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...I'm sorry, I meant to say "I have concerns over mission creep strangling what has been a perfectly fine quest so far, please do not overexert yourself, and also I think myself funnier than I am."
BOTcommander's quest, in total, has taken me roughly four hours. Adi Lanos has taken me maybe 1.5. These are not significant time commitments for me.
 
Well isn't GDI-verse a follow on from Red Alert 1? In that case Hitler and the Nazis were not part of GDI history because WW2 was the Allies (including Germany as I recall) vs the USSR.
 
Anyone who disagrees with me is Literally Hitler: A brief guide to modern political discourse (noncanon)
Noncanon? Did I underestimate the level of political discourse surrounding the elections or was there something else I missed?
Except actually Hitler. Because, you know, that guy was actually Hitler.
I did actually consider adding something to that effect at the end. Ultimately decided against it though.
Well isn't GDI-verse a follow on from Red Alert 1? In that case Hitler and the Nazis were not part of GDI history because WW2 was the Allies (including Germany as I recall) vs the USSR.
I think there was a Kane cameo in one ending, but I don't think it's really considered canon.
 
The only people who cares about boring stuff from a hundred years ago like the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei 25-point Programme are stuffy historians and the Archives and History Department (but I repeat myself :p).
ProfCollingsworth:
To borrow a phrase from a computer game about as old as I am: OBJECTION!
Some of us stuffy historians work at various universities, not for the Archives department. I even have a friend who is a freelance stuffy historian. (Don't ask how it works. You'll develop dust allergies.)
 
Noncanon? Did I underestimate the level of political discourse surrounding the elections or was there something else I missed?
What you missed is that I made the references to Hitler speeches as an out of universe anecdote based on how I write political speeches. Ozawa's speech was not Actually A Hitler Speech, but was instead me referring to one of the pieces that I would be drawing on if I wanted to write the actual speech.
 
ProfCollingsworth:
To borrow a phrase from a computer game about as old as I am: OBJECTION!
Some of us stuffy historians work at various universities, not for the Archives department. I even have a friend who is a freelance stuffy historian. (Don't ask how it works. You'll develop dust allergies.)
OneThatKnows:
Do not believe his lies! Every single so-called "historian" is working for Archives! That how they work, the truth they want you to know is not the full truth!
What you missed is that I made the references to Hitler speeches as an out of universe anecdote based on how I write political speeches. Ozawa's speech was not Actually A Hitler Speech, but was instead me referring to one of the pieces that I would be drawing on if I wanted to write the actual speech.
I was aware of that, just assumed that there would be enough people on the internet calling each other Literally Hitler at the drop of a hat.
 
Speaking of Red Alert, it'd be neat if we could develop some Allies inspired stuff (Allies being the most grounded RA faction. For however little that phrase is worth). I imagine taking laser & stealth tech further could get something similar to mirage tanks, for example.
 
Speaking of Red Alert, it'd be neat if we could develop some Allies inspired stuff (Allies being the most grounded RA faction. For however little that phrase is worth). I imagine taking laser & stealth tech further could get something similar to mirage tanks, for example.
Sure they are... Chronosphere says what?

Edit: And I'm pretty sure Nod's Tarantula walkers they're liable to develop are the closest thing we'll see to Mirage tanks.
 
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