Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
I think there were stories about a British diesel submarine managing to get Enterprise in her sights for long enough to 'sink' her on a fleet exercise, but I can't recall the exact details.
I know that in the RIMPAC 98 fleet exercises HMAS Onslow (an Australian Oberon submarine built in the 1970s) managed to get within three hundred metres of the fleet carrier Carl Vinson and 'sink' her.
So yeah, relatively primitive subs can be quite dangerous to main-line combat warships, let alone merchant ships in convoys. The problem, as has been pointed out, is that even relatively small submarines like the Oberon class I mentioned above (displacing roughly two thousand tons compared to eight thousand for an Arleigh Burke class destroyer or four thousand for an Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate) require extensive shipyard facilities to produce, as we've seen with the effort to build the shipyards for our Rapier-class hydrofoils. NOD normally operates deep in the Yellow or Red Zones so not only would they have to worry about protecting any shipyards from GDI retaliation (which would be even harder as we clear away orbital debris and can put up more recon and comms satellites) but also from the encroachment of Tiberium.
I agree with you, Simon. Building battleships and carriers in realistic numbers simply does not provide enough numbers to fulfil the roles of a modern navy. Most of the action in Command and Conquer is on land, with ships being used either to deploy troops in amphibious assaults (a Landing Ship Dock is shown deploying hovercraft to land troops on a beach in the first mission of the first game) or to provide fire support from guns or from aircraft. This might be why there is so much emphasis on battleships and carriers in GDI, especially if NOD does not field large naval forces of its own. So with most of GDI's naval efforts focused on big ships like the battleships and aircraft carriers it makes sense that they'd just produce more of the lighter ships that were already being built, rather than coming up with new designs. So as the first C&C game was set in the early 1990s GDI is probably still churning out Perry and Broadsword frigates designed in the 1970s, and [Arleigh Burke destroyers designed in the 1980s, with attempts to update their technology which have failed to keep them effective against current NOD forces.
@Ithillid How big are the Rapier-class hydrofoils we are currently building? Are they as big as the modern destroyers mentioned above, in the several thousand ton range? Or are they more along the lines of small patrol gunboats and missile boats, like the Soviet Osa class or the US Pegasus class?
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
The problem with that is we're at the point where getting more power from major projects is both ABSOLUTELY NEEDED... and going to rapidly become unaffordable in the quantity needed. At least in regards of how much progress they'd take to complete. We also know that the fusion projects are what we need to solve that issue, as once we complete the chain they become mainstream and half the cost for those major power production projects we absolutely need.
Now that wouldn't be too bad... But I think we've got two or three further projects in the chain after this first one before we reach that point. So if we keep trickling in the progress, then we're going to eat a lot of dice spent getting the power we need that are also needed for all the other projects we need to do. Because I'm fully expecting finishing the chain is going to be another 600-1000 progress needed. Which basically means we'd get the fusion power mainstream sometime next plan if we only put in one or two dice every second turn.
- Location
- The Underdark
They are a bit larger than a Pegasus.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Obligatory disclaimer: fleet exercises often impose unrealistic conditions on the forces involved, making it artificially easy for counterintuitive or 'impressive' results to occur. On the other hand, this can cut both ways, so eh.
Another issue is that it's quite possible that ASW technology has outpaced underwater stealth technology.
The main means of localizing a submarine underwater is with a microphone to listen for it with, basically. And while Nod's engineers are masters of visual cloaking, can they do audio?
If not, then improvements in electronics would keep making Nod submarines easier to detect, but Nod themselves would be unable to match their stealth advances on land with similar advances on the sea.
- Location
- The Underdark
One important thing when it comes to antisubmarine warfare is that the seas of 2050 or 2055 are a hell of a lot quieter than the seas of 2000 or 1950. The whales and fish are gone. There are basically no GDI submarines out there. There is generally just not a lot of stuff down there. Which means that you might as well fling a couple of cheap ASROCs out.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
No, I don't belive so. If you meant the +1 bonus from Philadelphia Phase 2, that won't take into effect until the turn after it's completed.
- Location
- The Underdark
You have Tiberium Algae growing there, you are managing the surface clumps at the very least, and generally trying to get at the undersea stuff, but yes, the ocean floors are, er problematic. Although Tib generally does not work so good at low temperatures, so it is not as bad as some areas.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Lofty Ideals
- Location
- Somewhere in the area
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
[X] Plan Consumer Slam
A couple things I just noticed from the Q3 2055 threadmark:
Also, the expected changes due to the private sector/art grants line is missing.
The post still says Q2.
Also, the expected changes due to the private sector/art grants line is missing.
[X] Plan Consumer Slam
- Location
- The Underdark
Fixed that. And all you are expected to lose is 2 labor.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Found these unfinished entries in my probability array. Corrected to the following instead:
-[] Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension (Phase 3) 71/350 3 dice 15R 10%, 4 dice 20R 49%, 5 dice 25R 83%, 6 dice 30R 97%
(++ + Energy)
-[] Vertical Farming projects (Phase 2) 65/240 2 dice 30R 21%, 3 dice 45R 70%, 4 dice 60R 94%
(+++ Food, +++ Consumer goods, -- Energy)
- Location
- USA
If we finish perennial this turn vert farming might be a good one to dump 3 dice on next turn, overflow just goes to phase 3 and we should finish bz this turn (and if not easy to finish next turn) to keep our energy fine.
[X] Plan Consumer Slam
[X] Plan Power, Mil and Cons Good
[X] Plan Power, Mil and Cons Good
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah, and it seems to be becoming popular.
[X] Plan Consumer Slam
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
[X] Plan Consumer Slam
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Plan Consumer Slam
[X] Plan Lofty Alternative
Infrastructure (5 dice)
-[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 1), 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1), 1 die (15 Resources)
-[X] Fiber-Optic Expansion, 2 dice (40 Resources)
Heavy Industry (5 dice)
-[X] Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Phase 2), 3 dice (30 Resources)
-[X] Fusion Power Prototype, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Union Class Construction Yard, 1 die (20 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry (3 dice + 2 Free)
-[X] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors, 3 dice (30 Resources)
-[X] Bulk Plastics Facilities, 2 dice (20 Resources)
Agriculture (3 dice)
-[X] State Operated Breweries, 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Perennial Aquaponics Bays, 1 dice (10 Resources)
Tiberium (5 dice)
-[X] Chicago Planned City (Phase 1), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions, 4 die (20 Resources)
Orbital (3 dice + 1 Free) (2 fusion)
-[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 2), 4 dice (100 Resources)
Services (4 dice)
-[X] Ethnic Restaurant Program, 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Durable Goods Libraries and Central Repositories, 1 die (15 Resources)
Military (5 dice + 1 Free)
-[X] Reclamator Fleet RZ-6 South, 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Reclamator Hub Yellow Zone 5a, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Ablat Plating Deployment (Phase 1), 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Wolverine Mark 3 Deployment, 1 die (10 Resources)
Bureaucracy (3 dice + 1 Free)
-[X] Technology Codevelopment Programs, 2 dice
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry Recruitment Drive, 2 dice
Total cost: 490 Resources
As part of the usual process where all plans converge into near-identical forms, here's an alternative version of Plan Lofty Ambition. It does two things: Switches two Agriculture dice to doing Breweries, and turns off the free die on BZ power to change the Titan Mark 3 project into Reclaimator Hub YZ 5a. (Plus this uses the extra free die to make sure the L&CI recruitment goes through.)
-The limit for when we need Perennials completed is Q1 of next year, and if completed this turn would only give +1 Consumer Goods by the election. It should be easy enough to complete it in time; unless we get awful rolls it should only take 3-4 more dice after the 1 dice this turn.
-We're not at risk of running out of power this turn, and BZ Power Production Campaigns will be easy enough to finish next turn if it doesn't complete this turn. At worst it should only take 2 more dice next turn.
-Reclamator Hub YZ 5a can capture the progress overflow from completing the MARV fleet. Unless we hit bad rolls, we should be able to put 2 dice on YZ 5a's MARV fleet next turn and 2 more dice on another Red Zone Reclamator Hub, plus we should have enough free dice to continue Military projects.
-Two dice on the L&CI recruitment is 99% likely to complete.
[X] Plan Lofty Alternative
Infrastructure (5 dice)
-[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 1), 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1), 1 die (15 Resources)
-[X] Fiber-Optic Expansion, 2 dice (40 Resources)
Heavy Industry (5 dice)
-[X] Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Phase 2), 3 dice (30 Resources)
-[X] Fusion Power Prototype, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Union Class Construction Yard, 1 die (20 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry (3 dice + 2 Free)
-[X] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors, 3 dice (30 Resources)
-[X] Bulk Plastics Facilities, 2 dice (20 Resources)
Agriculture (3 dice)
-[X] State Operated Breweries, 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Perennial Aquaponics Bays, 1 dice (10 Resources)
Tiberium (5 dice)
-[X] Chicago Planned City (Phase 1), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions, 4 die (20 Resources)
Orbital (3 dice + 1 Free) (2 fusion)
-[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 2), 4 dice (100 Resources)
Services (4 dice)
-[X] Ethnic Restaurant Program, 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Durable Goods Libraries and Central Repositories, 1 die (15 Resources)
Military (5 dice + 1 Free)
-[X] Reclamator Fleet RZ-6 South, 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Reclamator Hub Yellow Zone 5a, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Ablat Plating Deployment (Phase 1), 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Wolverine Mark 3 Deployment, 1 die (10 Resources)
Bureaucracy (3 dice + 1 Free)
-[X] Technology Codevelopment Programs, 2 dice
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry Recruitment Drive, 2 dice
Total cost: 490 Resources
As part of the usual process where all plans converge into near-identical forms, here's an alternative version of Plan Lofty Ambition. It does two things: Switches two Agriculture dice to doing Breweries, and turns off the free die on BZ power to change the Titan Mark 3 project into Reclaimator Hub YZ 5a. (Plus this uses the extra free die to make sure the L&CI recruitment goes through.)
-The limit for when we need Perennials completed is Q1 of next year, and if completed this turn would only give +1 Consumer Goods by the election. It should be easy enough to complete it in time; unless we get awful rolls it should only take 3-4 more dice after the 1 dice this turn.
-We're not at risk of running out of power this turn, and BZ Power Production Campaigns will be easy enough to finish next turn if it doesn't complete this turn. At worst it should only take 2 more dice next turn.
-Reclamator Hub YZ 5a can capture the progress overflow from completing the MARV fleet. Unless we hit bad rolls, we should be able to put 2 dice on YZ 5a's MARV fleet next turn and 2 more dice on another Red Zone Reclamator Hub, plus we should have enough free dice to continue Military projects.
-Two dice on the L&CI recruitment is 99% likely to complete.
Would personally prefer pushing the Ablat Plating back a turn for the Titan mk3 but I like the plan otherwise.
[X] Plan Lofty Alternative
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Lofty Alternative
[X] Plan Lofty Ideals
[X] Plan Lofty Ideals