Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- USA
Less if we eat the YZ from both ends. But yeah over the course of the plan I view pumping both mitigations, just right now the extra income from the RZ mitigations makes it quicker for us to go full dice activation (and maybe divert some income to the other departments) which means we can get research going while also doing tiberium, mil growth and keeping our economy expanding (like housing, food and cons goods). Not to mention more work on bridging the gap between the two zones.
Also after the last quarter thanks to the Nat 1 the YZ residents are a little unsettled so responding this turn with extra mitigation efforts on the RZ and 2 dice to basically 100% the YZ agri (and of note the +1 consumer good is in the option earmarked for the YZ residents) and getting them out of refugee camps. So the more we can do to cut into NODs support in the YZ (which is going to take time as have made a very small dent but need to show our commitment ) the better. Q4 or Q1 is a better time for more focus on the BZ if we can reassure the YZ this quarter, not to mention with the next glacier phase in q4 combined with incomes this turn we should be in a better spot income wise Q1 to do some abatement projects (and maybe get through phase 1 of both planned cities).
Though I am unsure if I want to push Tib projects or more MARV projects with free dice. Assuming all red zones are the same than we are looking at a 105 and 210 project for 3 RZ mit and 25 RpT with no overflow between the two.
Compare to 300 for 4 YZ mit and 5-10 RpT, and 180 for 2 RZ mit and 10-15 RpT. Super Marv has the benefit of being a bit more defensible in nature, so which one gets the free dice is a bit undecided for me.
+6 Rz mit, containment lines is 2 points of mit. Also everything completing is not likely so 4 points of that YZ mit is likely needed to be follow up on next turn, really the only reason to have dice on fencing is because of our resource limit, otherwise progression wise YZ harvesting is better for us mitigiation (300 vs 400 for 4 pts of YZ mit) and harvesting provides income as well. Also dont forgot that doing the fortress housing lets us put 1 dice for 15 R next turn on YZ intensification which is only 1 YZ mit but at 67/100 very close to 100% (between bonus and omake nat 1 would be the thing to derail it). As it is we have pushed hard on YZ mit so for a turn going hard on RZ mit would help us out, next turn we would be back to a mix of YZ and RZ mit (glacier and intensification gives 1 each).
I could also point out reducing RZ growth before the mutation is important as well because that is where it is going to spread from the quickest so the less RZ we have the slower the spread post mutation.
- Location
- canada
[X] Plan AAAAAHHHHHbatement
[X] Plan Fusion AAAAAHHHHHbatement
The longer people ignore the shrinking world from the expanding red and yellow zones, the less of a world people will have left to live in. Humanity's future and survival depends on pushing the zones back, and all other concerns must be secondary until that's done first.
That and the faster the Abatement is done, the faster the blue zones can finally have a chance to expand again, which should have plenty of effects on future options.
Edit: Besides, it's not as if the plan is ignoring the other concerns entirely. It's a very reasonable plan to counter the existential crisis the Tiberium rolls have given to the planet. In fact, I'd call it Out-Of-Character if Granger, the Tiberium Scientist, Didn't do as much as possible for Abatement at this time.
[X] Plan Fusion AAAAAHHHHHbatement
The longer people ignore the shrinking world from the expanding red and yellow zones, the less of a world people will have left to live in. Humanity's future and survival depends on pushing the zones back, and all other concerns must be secondary until that's done first.
That and the faster the Abatement is done, the faster the blue zones can finally have a chance to expand again, which should have plenty of effects on future options.
Edit: Besides, it's not as if the plan is ignoring the other concerns entirely. It's a very reasonable plan to counter the existential crisis the Tiberium rolls have given to the planet. In fact, I'd call it Out-Of-Character if Granger, the Tiberium Scientist, Didn't do as much as possible for Abatement at this time.
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So, anyone else pleased with the Super Marvs?
I certainly am. Though they are pricey at 315 points to setup, they don't cost us logistics and give a guaranteed 25rpt with 3 mitigation.
We promised 5 fleets but honestly I now want to dedicate 3-4 dice a turn to churning them out for the rest of the plan.
I certainly am. Though they are pricey at 315 points to setup, they don't cost us logistics and give a guaranteed 25rpt with 3 mitigation.
We promised 5 fleets but honestly I now want to dedicate 3-4 dice a turn to churning them out for the rest of the plan.
Yeah I'm a big fan of Super MARVs. They probably give less cash in areas that aren't just giant piles of Tiberium as far as the eye can see, but in Red Zones at least they're really awesome. Especially with the 40 point discount on the hub/fleet combo, that's just the last little cherry on top that makes the math really pretty.
- Location
- USA
That is including a project has has a 33% to finish this turn so going by potential is misleading. Expected Mit: aaaahbatement 5.04 YZ 2.33 RZ for 7.37 vs 4.21 RZ. And if you want to go to all potential you note that 3 dice on RZ Containment has a 2% to get phase 2 done which would theoretically raise my plan to 8 points of mitigation even though more realistically it just gets us progress to finishing phase 2 (which makes 2 easy points to grab next turn).
For Super marvs- huge fan 50 progress (basically a bit under 1 dice on average) for +1 mit and +10 income for the RZ is great. If the super marv finishes this turn I feel like for next turn on mil dice:
2 Copenhagen shipyard
1 Reclamator BZ 1
2 Reclamator YZ 1A
mainly to let us see how the BZ and YZ super marvs compare to RZ marvs.
Really I have mentally tabbed 3 dice on marv projects until they are gone unless we have other demands pop up. Income, a bit of defensive power and mitigation makes them great.
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trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
It also helps that they're essentially giant moving fortresses with powerful guns. NOD had enough trouble engaging just the regular MARV and were only ever able to destroy them through either overwhelming firepower using air and stealth assets or through attrition by repeated attack waves. While the Super MARV is less mobile it's even more heavily armored and has more guns to cover its weakness to air. So long as they don't fight completely alone they're going to be a tough nut to crack and will severely curb NOD operations wherever they operate.
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My issue with AAAhbatement is that it's ultimately a knee-jerk reaction plan that sacrifices the long-term in favor of a short-term panic to a bad event. We need more abatement, yes, but abatement is only one of the many, many balls we have to juggle, and for all of them we require yet more resources in order to make optimum use of our capabilities. Note how many plans don't use Infrastructure, Orbital, or Service dice to the fullest possible extent, for example, because there simply aren't enough resources available.
This goes double because the means the plan chooses to get abatement are rather inefficient; blue zone fencing requires a lot of progress and provides no resources in return. For the same amount of progress we could get a full 3 phases of red zone harvesting, which provides only a slightly smaller amount of mitigation (3 vs 4, albeit in red rather than yellow zones), and also generates an additional 30-60 RpT, making subsequent turns much easier for us since we can work on more projects simultaneously - such as using our Infra dice the fullest for various projects, such as building the arcologies we promised, more logistics, or even the abatement-focused planned city.
Or at least go for YZ harvesting instead of the BZ fence; it provides the same amount of abatement, but requires 25% less progress and at least provides a small amount of additional resource-income.
Considering we're still in the very first year of our 4-year-plan, we should still be focused on raising our budget as much as we possible can so we'll have an easier time in the subsequent 3 years, then build purely abatement-focused projects such as the BZ perimeter fence in the last year.
Frankly, one of my biggest issues with your plan is that you should invest an additional die into the SMARV in order to ensure it's completion as much as possible; the additional resources alone would make it more than worthwhile in my opinion.
I'd also prefer more RZ harvesting over RZ containment, but the difference there is sufficiently minor that it's not *that* big an issue for me.
- Location
- USA
The need to do a shipyard this turn does provide a limiting factor since I am running out of resources before I get to the free dice. Getting it over 50% completion would be great but cutting away slows progress elsewhere and I am trying to avoid a situation where we have to hyperfocus each turn and more take care of everything we need to do over the plan each turn. Q4 I expect to be able to use more dice on resource cost actions and come Q1 all free dice can be on resource cost actions. As it is that makes this the last turn to do a lot of security reviews so I want to take advantage of that to clear out some areas before we are down to 1 review a turn.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Both plans are building the Logistics to do Glacier Mining next turn, which is our major source of income. And AAAhbatement isn't a knee-jerk reaction if we follow it up with more YZ mitigation next turn. Even if it loses, next turn I still intend to vote for more YZ mitigation. Now that we've started up MARVs we can make decent additional progress on RZ mitigation that way, but we need to build YZ mitigation and recover BZ land now ahead of time while our mitigation efforts are still maximally effective. Plan AAAhbatement is the first step towards more YZ mitigation, not a one-off effort.
Traditionally, land is one of the most if not the most important resources for a nation. Given that our enemy is Tiberium instead of other nation-states, land recovery is actually even more important now than ever. (Even if that land doesn't directly translate into RpT for us.)
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- Location
- USA
We can do YZ and BZ marvs in future turns (and probably should at least peek those to see how the mitigations for those stack up), also 4 vs 3 dice on rolling stock is a fairly major difference with 3 dice likely needing a follow up dice next turn to finish, combined with the need to do BZ power gen next turn if we dont want to skimp on energy consuming actions. And getting rolling stock done this turn should help with rail network next turn, not to mention finishing housing this turn leads to no other demands on infra dice next turn outsides of logistics.
How? Lots of people keep saying this but as far as I can tell it's just a talking point that started getting taken as gospel. Yes it's not the maximally efficient plan for increasing Resource income, because that's not what it was designed for, and neither is Housing, Red Zone and Consumer Goods. Their expected incomes aren't massively different, their consumer goods allocations aren't super different, they're exactly the same in total military force (although I'm naturally biased against the competition and think the YZ fortress towns are a mistake that actually make it worse at military). The largest difference is Free dice in Tiberium vs. Free dice in security reviews, everything else is quibbling around the margins.
What dice allocations specifically make my plan a terrible short-term kneejerk, and how is the competition different? I'm not trying to be an asshole I legitimately want to know what people are seeing that I don't, even if I lose this vote I want to get better and make more plans people like.
- Location
- canada
But what could possibly be more of a long-term concern than the Tiberium encroachment? While everything else are things people can wait for, their future is literally being eaten away by an alien rock.
The worst part is, as the Blue Zone shrinks further incrementally, the % of each decrease will increase in proportion to the remaining space left. For example, if 20% of Blue zone was left, and 1% was eaten away, that's 1/20, or 5% loss proportionally. But if there were now only 10% Blue zone left, and 1% is gone again, then that's 1/10, or 10% proportionally.
I don't want to wait until the Blue zone has only 5% left.
If people still scream for consumer goods at that point... Well, sometimes I wonder exactly what it would be like if the reins of the Treasury was simply given freely in it's entirely to everyone equally, just to see what the masses would do with the rest of their future.
There's a reason a command economy is there, because even the public knows that only a few of them are competent and fit enough to lead the rest. The Public opinions do matter, but objective truths and problems are still more important to face and solve for the benefit of all.
- Location
- USA
Consumer goods wise I am looking at 2 to 4 more (+7 vs +9 or +11), but also I am setting up for both light industry zones (at +8 each for +16 by end of Q1 if nothing crazy happens) thanks to the 3 cap goods that should finish this turn. The 4 vs 3 in rolling stock means for yours we will most likely need a dice next turn to finish and we need 4 logistics for the next glacier mining and rolling stock should see either a progress or cost drop on rail network to make that easier to get done. You do have YZ grid finishing this turn though the +2 is only enough to offset a small energy action and would need BZ power still next turn unless we are avoiding a lot of energy actions. And yes agree not going max resource (if i was I would be doing 10 dice in RZ harvests as opposed to 2-3 split with containment, but I dont think max income when we can get 1 glacier phase and 1 yz intensification and 1 other tib project next turn for more income is necessary)
I think where people might see a knee jerk is a combo of 1) dumping all free dice into tiberium and 2) going for BZ fencing as opposed to more YZ harvesting (though I understand that is due to YZ harvesting costing more per dice meaning shifting the fencing dice to harvesting would mean dropping more dice elsewhere and we are still juggling multiple plates at this point).
Dropping the orbital shuttle bay would free up enough resources for another die on the SMARV; while a lot of us probably really want to get started on doing more space-stuff, it's frankly speaking not something we really need *right now*, and could easily wait until year 2 of this plan, when we'll have more resources available.
Glacier mines are great, but the income from things like RZ harvesting is far from marginal, and - unlike the glacier mines - doesn't require logistics resources to make use of (which we're currently still rather short on).
And as I already noted; if the primary goal is YZ abatement, then YZ harvesting is a far, far superior choice than BZ perimeter fencing, providing the same amount of mitigation while requiring less progress per phase as well as actually increasing our income to deal with other issues we're facing.
BZ fencing is by far my biggest issue, because it's simply a massively sub-optimal choice overall; YZ harvesting provides the same amount of mitigation, while requiring less progress (which also translates into less resource cost), and increasing our income.
And in terms of mitigation in general, rather than YZ-specific, for the same amount of progress as required for BZ fencing (ie, 400 points), we could gain 3 phases of RZ harvesting, gaining only slightly less overall abatement (3 vs 4), but substantially increasing our income.
Throw in the same issue I have with Void's plan (ie, not enough dice for the SMARV), and the dice distribution in services and HI on projects I consider rather non-urgent such as the local media, BZ microgeneration, or the space shuttles.
Even if abatement is your main priority, you could *still* create a better plan by dropping some non-essential projects and switching from BZ fencing ro RZ containment; for the same amount of progress required you'd still gain 4 points of mitigation, but also a not insubstantial amount of resources, that could then be re-invested into abatement/resource-projects such as YZ harvesting, RZ containment, SMARVs, etc.
- Location
- USA
With the expected income increases we should be doing 1 or 2 orbital dice next turn and dropping 10 off of all projects makes some of the smaller ones quick to finish. And as mentioned it would also mean dropping a security review and after this turn I doubt we will be able to fit more than 1 in most turns (there might be times we can get 2 but that is tough as we should have fewer idle dice). And we have seen in the past the problems that can pop up in departments so clearing more trouble out makes things easier for us long turn.
For example 2 dice on orbital comms next turn would help improve our ability to respond to situation or 1 dice on cleanup (with needing 90 vs 100) will open new projects in space, if those include more spy sats and other ones that can help us track down NOD that is a big gain. Basically despite neglecting space, shuttle bay is a fairly essential action to take since that -10 adds up quickly
Beyond the fact that it's resource-cheaper which is an important concern while our income is still not enough to activate all our dice (and the 5-10 from an extra stage of YZ harvesting instead would not meaningfully change that fact), Blue Zone fencing has synergistic effects with the other two thirds of the BZ perimeter projects that are going to make it more effective than just the listed 4 abatement. Stage 3 of the BZ fencing is likely also going to provide more abatement points at a lower resource cost, and with the added benefit of not overstretching the military like more deep Yellow operations does.
If we want income, just plowing all our dice into RZ mining is the optimal play. If we want Yellow mitigation, the purpose-designed perimeter defense that does nothing but abate Tiberium spread is going to be more effective than the unhappy medium of more deep Yellow outposts that does a little bit of both but neither as well as the dedicated option. I think people are vastly overestimating the utility that 5-10R for one additional turn represents, if it was a phase of glaciers or something there would be an argument there but Yellow Zone harvesting is terrible at income generation and it's more expensive for the privilege of being bad. Spending an extra 20R to get one turn's worth of additional 5-10R income is a net negative after all.
If we want income, just plowing all our dice into RZ mining is the optimal play. If we want Yellow mitigation, the purpose-designed perimeter defense that does nothing but abate Tiberium spread is going to be more effective than the unhappy medium of more deep Yellow outposts that does a little bit of both but neither as well as the dedicated option. I think people are vastly overestimating the utility that 5-10R for one additional turn represents, if it was a phase of glaciers or something there would be an argument there but Yellow Zone harvesting is terrible at income generation and it's more expensive for the privilege of being bad. Spending an extra 20R to get one turn's worth of additional 5-10R income is a net negative after all.
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The bigger problem with AAAhbatement - other than 20~ less RpT is that it doesn't start on the power plants. We could genuinely find ourselves without power during Q1 if we don't have it finished by then. Ultimately, we're far more likely to have it done in 3 turns then shocking it in 2. Especially if the dice decide to screw us over.
It's only somewhere between 0-15R income less, not 20, but besides that the power is a valid point. I think the Yellow Zone power plus hardening the BZ grid are enough to buy us an extra turn with a little economizing, and the BZ power plants are likely to get massive amounts of dice plowed into them over the next 2 turns regardless, but at least that's actually a valid criticism of the plan itself not just arguing against "kneejerks."
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The nice thing about having 5 dice in HI is that, actually, we can drop a ton of dice on projects to shock them in 1 turn. The only project on the list that's more than 10 dice to get at or over 90% completion is North Boston; even the Tokyo Chip Plant can get 90%+ for phases 1+2 in only 7 dice. (And that's true regardless of which plan we go for.) And we'll still have power for multiple projects next turn anyways.
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
Nod is always going to slip in between the cracks. I mean if we had taken naval options? They'd be hitting us some other way. There's no way to stop one of their out of nowhere blows they love so much. But MARVs? MARVs complicate their lives. It's something Nod has to either address or bypass. And slow as they maybe? Once one takes the field? Nod can either slink off or fight a monster.
- Location
- USA
Oh yeah, I fully plan on dropping 5 dice on BZ power next turn if I can get away with, combo with the 2 dice this turn that puts us at 46%, if i can squeeze a free dice in there to bump it up to likely finish (or if the 2 dice this turn roll well) it does mean that we can keep on going with our factories and actions without slowing down. As is though I would prefer not having to drop all free dice and cat dice onto one action