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Who Needs Harmony?: An MLP Empire Quest

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New to the site, and enjoying the quest!

Do find it amusing that there's so much argument around how Griffonia's involvement in the war would look when Canterbury purposely kicked off this civil war with their little assassination. I wonder what they want to get out of this? And is there enough structure in Maretonia to even survive the current war it's fallen into?

My opinion: helping Maretonia is nice, but at the end of the day not our responsibility. Would be good to help, but it's not our responsibility to commit our army to saving the country, especially when that might open up our own country to whatever plans Canterbury has for Maretonia. It's distasteful, but a fullout invasion is probably not the right solution.

So my picks for dealing with Maretonia:
[x] Direct Maretonian Invasion: Sword - lends aid to Maretonia without full commitment of our army
[x] Etymological Studies - we need to know more about the changelings, and what they might be doing in Maretonia. Are they supporting Pegicles? Do they have agents in there?
[x] Plausible Deniability: Haygle - getting as much of Maretonia united against Pegicles as possible should be a priority if we want to keep the country from completely fracturing or falling under Pegicles
[x] Gleaming Generosity - we need to deal with the refugee situation and get it under control, especially since we aren't turning people away

My other picks:
[x] Knights of the Frontier - I know this is a militia action that doesn't specifically deal with Maretonia, but I think that the other options should be enough this round for dealing with it, and we need to focus on strengthening our own country for if Canterbury moves. The knight orders of Griffonia have also become somewhat of a point of pride for the country at this point
[x] Canterlot Bound - the longer they linger the unhappier they'll be, let's get them shipped out and start out with a shiny impression on Equestria
[x] The Iron Steppe - the yaks are good people, and we did upset them with marching people through the country, the least we can do is help build defenses for them
[x] Crystal Forests - I like the idea of cultivated wood, where we don't keep encroaching on nature and deforesting areas, just a personal opinion here
[x] Arcane College - let's get our people equipped for magic!
[x] Airships Commercial Refinement - not everything should just be for the military
[x] Seaside Shrines - all the other religions have received a boost
[x] Land of the Rising Sun - supporting Gwyndlyn and strengthening old ties!

And for Gawaine, development of his relationship with Ki Seong would be nice
 
Blacksheep said:
New to the site, and enjoying the quest!

Do find it amusing that there's so much argument around how Griffonia's involvement in the war would look when Canterbury purposely kicked off this civil war with their little assassination. I wonder what they want to get out of this? And is there enough structure in Maretonia to even survive the current war it's fallen into?

My opinion: helping Maretonia is nice, but at the end of the day not our responsibility. Would be good to help, but it's not our responsibility to commit our army to saving the country, especially when that might open up our own country to whatever plans Canterbury has for Maretonia. It's distasteful, but a fullout invasion is probably not the right solution.
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Ok, first thing:

We don´t actually *know with certainty*, who killed Queen Mareia, although most evidence does point towards Queen Phalanx ordering the hit.

Secondly, even if we knew that she did it, the actual culprit wouldn´t be Canterbury, but instead the Changeling Hive.

As for us intervening into the Maretonian Civil War, we are also motivated partly outta sheer self-interest, considering the fact that the longer this shitshow drags on, the more refugees will flood into our land seeking sanctuary and in the process put a huge strain on our economy.

So it isn´t just us being good goys that we are now intervening.
 
Blacksheep said:
New to the site, and enjoying the quest!

Do find it amusing that there's so much argument around how Griffonia's involvement in the war would look when Canterbury purposely kicked off this civil war with their little assassination. I wonder what they want to get out of this? And is there enough structure in Maretonia to even survive the current war it's fallen into?

My opinion: helping Maretonia is nice, but at the end of the day not our responsibility. Would be good to help, but it's not our responsibility to commit our army to saving the country, especially when that might open up our own country to whatever plans Canterbury has for Maretonia. It's distasteful, but a fullout invasion is probably not the right solution.

So my picks for dealing with Maretonia:
[x] Direct Maretonian Invasion: Sword - lends aid to Maretonia without full commitment of our army
[x] Etymological Studies - we need to know more about the changelings, and what they might be doing in Maretonia. Are they supporting Pegicles? Do they have agents in there?
[x] Plausible Deniability: Haygle - getting as much of Maretonia united against Pegicles as possible should be a priority if we want to keep the country from completely fracturing or falling under Pegicles
[x] Gleaming Generosity - we need to deal with the refugee situation and get it under control, especially since we aren't turning people away

My other picks:
[x] Knights of the Frontier - I know this is a militia action that doesn't specifically deal with Maretonia, but I think that the other options should be enough this round for dealing with it, and we need to focus on strengthening our own country for if Canterbury moves. The knight orders of Griffonia have also become somewhat of a point of pride for the country at this point
[x] Canterlot Bound - the longer they linger the unhappier they'll be, let's get them shipped out and start out with a shiny impression on Equestria
[x] The Iron Steppe - the yaks are good people, and we did upset them with marching people through the country, the least we can do is help build defenses for them
[x] Crystal Forests - I like the idea of cultivated wood, where we don't keep encroaching on nature and deforesting areas, just a personal opinion here
[x] Arcane College - let's get our people equipped for magic!
[x] Airships Commercial Refinement - not everything should just be for the military
[x] Seaside Shrines - all the other religions have received a boost
[x] Land of the Rising Sun - supporting Gwyndlyn and strengthening old ties!

And for Gawaine, development of his relationship with Ki Seong would be nice
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Also 2 things first is we vote via plan format to consolidate everything and the second is the vote is already over though do stick around for the next one.
 
Blacksheep said:
New to the site, and enjoying the quest!

Do find it amusing that there's so much argument around how Griffonia's involvement in the war would look when Canterbury purposely kicked off this civil war with their little assassination. I wonder what they want to get out of this? And is there enough structure in Maretonia to even survive the current war it's fallen into?

My opinion: helping Maretonia is nice, but at the end of the day not our responsibility. Would be good to help, but it's not our responsibility to commit our army to saving the country, especially when that might open up our own country to whatever plans Canterbury has for Maretonia. It's distasteful, but a fullout invasion is probably not the right solution.

So my picks for dealing with Maretonia:
[x] Direct Maretonian Invasion: Sword - lends aid to Maretonia without full commitment of our army
[x] Etymological Studies - we need to know more about the changelings, and what they might be doing in Maretonia. Are they supporting Pegicles? Do they have agents in there?
[x] Plausible Deniability: Haygle - getting as much of Maretonia united against Pegicles as possible should be a priority if we want to keep the country from completely fracturing or falling under Pegicles
[x] Gleaming Generosity - we need to deal with the refugee situation and get it under control, especially since we aren't turning people away

My other picks:
[x] Knights of the Frontier - I know this is a militia action that doesn't specifically deal with Maretonia, but I think that the other options should be enough this round for dealing with it, and we need to focus on strengthening our own country for if Canterbury moves. The knight orders of Griffonia have also become somewhat of a point of pride for the country at this point
[x] Canterlot Bound - the longer they linger the unhappier they'll be, let's get them shipped out and start out with a shiny impression on Equestria
[x] The Iron Steppe - the yaks are good people, and we did upset them with marching people through the country, the least we can do is help build defenses for them
[x] Crystal Forests - I like the idea of cultivated wood, where we don't keep encroaching on nature and deforesting areas, just a personal opinion here
[x] Arcane College - let's get our people equipped for magic!
[x] Airships Commercial Refinement - not everything should just be for the military
[x] Seaside Shrines - all the other religions have received a boost
[x] Land of the Rising Sun - supporting Gwyndlyn and strengthening old ties!

And for Gawaine, development of his relationship with Ki Seong would be nice
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The vote is over already XD

But nice to have you around.
 
TheGleeman said:
As for us intervening into the Maretonian Civil War, we are also motivated partly outta sheer self-interest, considering the fact that the longer this shitshow drags on, the more refugees will flood into our land seeking sanctuary and in the process put a huge strain on our economy.
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Another good reason why we should have gone with the Foreign Legion option. Shame people be sleeping on that one.
 
TheGleeman said:
We don´t actually *know with certainty*, who killed Queen Mareia, although most evidence does point towards Queen Phalanx ordering the hit.

Secondly, even if we knew that she did it, the actual culprit wouldn´t be Canterbury, but instead the Changeling Hive.
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Of course to avoid alerting the Changelings, we're probably going to blame Pegicles for poisoning Queen Mareia. According to intelligence practically everypony even somewhat important in Maretonia made plans to kill their monarch at some point (even if only hypothetically), but the poison used was on the Canterbury border. Pegicles both controlled the area and was known for raiding across it, so it's not too far fetched for Maretonia to believe, especially after all the other war crimes he committed.

TheGleeman said:
As for us intervening into the Maretonian Civil War, we are also motivated partly outta sheer self-interest, considering the fact that the longer this shitshow drags on, the more refugees will flood into our land seeking sanctuary and in the process put a huge strain on our economy.

So it isn´t just us being good goys that we are now intervening.
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Hmm. To Crystallise (do what we did to the Crystal Empire) or not to Crystallise?

TheLordofAwesome said:
Another good reason why we should have gone with the Foreign Legion option. Shame people be sleeping on that one.
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So many things to do, not enough actions per turn to do them all.
 
Whumbly said:
Of course to avoid alerting the Changelings, we're probably going to blame Pegicles for poisoning Queen Mareia. According to intelligence practically everypony even somewhat important in Maretonia made plans to kill their monarch at some point (even if only hypothetically), but the poison used was on the Canterbury border. Pegicles both controlled the area and was known for raiding across it, so it's not too far fetched for Maretonia to believe, especially after all the other war crimes he committed
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Do we actually know he *Didn't* do it? Like, I know everyone suspects the changelings, and to be fair this is what they love to do, but do anything other than circumstantial evidence? Pegicles had both the means and a motive.



Unless Pegicles is a changeling! It all makes sense!
 
You know we pretty much have all the reasons we need to intervene? We don't really even need to touch upon Queen Mareias murder to justify it. That's pretty much up to Maretonians themselves to to guess after the war.
 
The Royal guard is mostly destroyed and it's leader died. I don't think we're bound to that agreement anymore and even if we were it was conditional on her being able to resolve this conflict which she obviously can't anymore. Let's get this over with, it's not like we haven't exhausted nearly every other option so the harm to our repution will probably be much less than if we went in right away. We are conquerors but have demonstrated our reluctance to be so.
 
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Star said:
Sorry for quoting you but :

Regarding Imperial cult , i believe we should help these guys while they are moderate, it's pretty much worded in the action that the reason they were unable to find publisher is because of the doctrine dispute causing them to be late, nowhere saying that they will be unable to do it down the line later.
Also it's important to note that it's Garrick that they worship and while they won't cross him it isn't out of the question that they won't do their own thing once he dies and Empire continues to ignore them.

And let's not mention that they might come across some mysterious benefactors offering to print their books thus earnings good will from them and possibly radicalizing them down the line especially if said benefactor is able to impressionate Garrick after he dies making them believe that their Emperor returned from death to guide them, even if it's one time thing it will leave massive consequences that we won't be able control without cooperation from higher encleons of the cult at which point it will be to late. Especially if their teaching aren't declared to the masses already and they are able to rewrite them to more radicalized version.

Basically it's better to work with them than ignore them and guide them into direction we want them, while they are called imperial cult they literally won't turn like warhammer version of the cult since I'm pretty sure Garrick isn't some sort of demigod with psychic powers. It's more likely that they will go the way of ancestor worship putting special attention to the Emperor and holiness of imperial family. Basically nothing we didn't see in otl Church and monarchies divine right to rule. Maybe some sort of mixture between Christianity and Chinese mandate of Haven.
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I think we should NOT support the Imperial cult ever. Doing so gives them more legitimacy, which many might interpret as the emperor himself believing that he is a god to be worshiped. Combine that with our direct intervention in Maratonia and we risk other nations thinking we're the next Sombra. Better the emperor-worshipers remain a minority.
 
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Would like to help the imperial worship as well, we'd be venerating our ancestors of the past and become somewhat divine in the process eventually.
Right now though I believe helping with the sea stones passing border inspection smoothly would get us the most goodwill, definitely after that's done I'm all for giving them a helping hand.
 
AthetosAdmech said:
I think we should NOT support the Imperial cult ever. Doing so gives them more legitimacy, which many might interpret as the emperor himself believing that he is a god to be worshiped. Combine that with our direct intervention in Maratonia and we risk other nations thinking we're the next Sombra. Better the emperor-worshipers remain a minority.
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I think that might be the most uncharitable prediction ever on this quest. Most people, even leaders, are not inclined to believe someone is on a slippery slope until they've arrived at the bottom. Unless we keep engaging with the cult and expanding their influence further, there is no reason for anyone to get worried about it. Mass producing their book to prevent radicalization after we are gone is hardly giving it our seal of approval, just our seal of tolerance.
 
AthetosAdmech said:
I think we should NOT support the Imperial cult ever. Doing so gives them more legitimacy, which many might interpret as the emperor himself believing that he is a god to be worshiped. Combine that with our direct intervention in Maratonia and we risk other nations thinking we're the next Sombra. Better the emperor-worshipers remain a minority.
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I see what you mean, but hear me out; I at least want it to have more influence then the Lady of the Lakes. At the very least I want our false religion to be more popular in our own land the a foreign country's false one.
 
AthetosAdmech said:
I think we should NOT support the Imperial cult ever. Doing so gives them more legitimacy, which many might interpret as the emperor himself believing that he is a god to be worshiped. Combine that with our direct intervention in Maratonia and we risk other nations thinking we're the next Sombra. Better the emperor-worshipers remain a minority.
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I see Emperor worshipers as a form of ancestor worship which is centered around the Emperor really and by that i simply don't see them being anymore radical than any other religion. As for other nations? First and foremost if Neighpon is modeled on imperial Japan than Emperor there is already treated as semy divine figure so i doubt that other nations would rise a dust around imperial cult which brings me to this, just because they are carrying the name of a cult that belongs to warhammer people are treating this religion like it's literal imperial cult while balantly ignoring world building in a quest.

And we aren't supporting them and demanding everyone to outright worship us like a God, we are giving them same treatment like any other religion out there, even less than that.

Which really brings me to next thing, what happened to us being mostly ancestor worshipers @Questor ? Is that thing yet and if it is why don't we have options related to that form of religion?
 
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Alexander Sturnn said:
Yeah, our Imperial Cult may have the POTENTIAL to become as bad as the one in 40k, but it doesn't have to be.
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Literally every religion here has potential to become dangerous as imperial cult. It only takes a powerful unicorn that knows his way around magic to meddle with crystal heart and suddenly we have religious uprising.

Not to mention pantheon and things that come with that. Its all about how we interact with religion and their followers that counts.
 
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Honestly we should never do anything with the Imperial cult. If we move on it we implicitly agree with them and raise the profile of the cult. Using the office of the emperor to "clear the logjam" at the publishers is an implicit recognition that the Imperial cult has our approval. Worrying about having Control over the cult would be an issue if it wasn't for the fact that the central godlike religious figure of the Imperial Cult is US. Any zealots that show up we arrest them for their crimes and drag them before us and toss them into prison personally for their crimes. The more we acknowledge the cult the more power we give simply by acknowledging them.

If we want a nationalist religion we are probably better off going the Pantheist route with the old griffon gods and goddesses, at least that is a natural development from ancestor worship, since we are worshipping those that our ancestors worshipped.
 
Firebringer2077 said:
Any zealots that show up we arrest them for their crimes and drag them before us and toss them into prison personally for their crimes.
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Yea, this type of opinion is just so wonderfully helpful. Let's just brand every single member of one religion as zealots and criminals without them even doing anything.

Once again the saying if we do our piety action, action we did for every other religion, does that means we agree with every single religion there is? Actions we do as representative of state of Griffonia have nothing with our personal opinions and everyone probably know that.

Edit: As said we literally have in universe examples of rulers being treated with reverance so I don't see the problem. Our people are free to worship whatever and whoever they want as long as it isn't a treat to national safety.

Edit: Edit: as for ancestor worship, i kinda want it to remain majority like religion like it was originally , pantheon had really it's opportunity and it lost it with Discord and ultimately our people should worship real people that contributed to their survival in life instead of some made up gods.

Which once again brings me to the point about ancestor worship, given that it was already established in our empire pre discord and with all great Griffons appearing after Discord and many of them paying ultimate price for our Empire i kinda had a feeling that those things would have made it stronger...

Not to mention with advance of technology and print majority religion should be able to profit from it and consolidate itself.

I would actually like to take some action with ancestor worship as well, for example given its majority religion we could actually take some actions to expand it .
 
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Star said:
Yea, this type opinion is just so wonderfully helpful. Let's just brand every single member of one religion as zealots and criminals without them even doing anything.

Once again the saying if we do our piety action, action we did for every other religion, does that means we agree with every single religion there is? Actions we do as representative of state of Griffonia have nothing with our personal opinions and everyone probably know that.
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Well, unless we drastically rewrite the law code... Yes zealots who break the law get the book thrown at them, just like any other citizen who breaks the law... cause you know the law code has a function and is not selective based on faith?

I see absolutely no reason to help, recognize, aid, or do anything with the Imperial cult. If we do ANY action with them besides stamp them out we implicitly agree with their premise since we would be boosting them with any action. The control argument for me doesn't hold water because, the cult GAVE us the position of central divine figure of their religion. I can think of no reason why Garrick, the Royal Family, or the State of Griffonia would want to support an Imperial Cult, especially when we have other options. If the Imperial Cult is facing a logjam... let the logs stayed jammed.
 
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